Game of Thrones (tv show thread)
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the preview of the next episode.
that's the guy with the targaryen armor from the trailer, we'll finally know who he is. get hype!! people are speculating that the R+L=J theory is being foreshadowed in the show, first it was with lyanna from the previous episode and now the targaryens.
Common theory is that's a flashback sequence courtesy of Bran, with a young Ned Stark and companions fighting Kingsguard Arthur Dayne, Gerold Hightower, and Oswell Whent at the Tower of Joy during Robert's Rebellion.
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The targaryan is most likely Rhaegar. The theory has been going on long before the TV show since it happened in the books. Rhaergar is jon's true father and his mother is Ned's sister. The falshback will most likely serve as a spoon-feeding for the TV viewers so that it's less confusing.
Anyone else bored to death by ser-friendzone and pimps side story. Holy crap Dany is the weakest link in this entire story. And in the books it's not any different. Just atrocious. Tyrion's story is inevtiably kind of stalling. That's what happens when you have to move so many storylines at once.
I like how after 4 seasons the Greyjoys now become relevant all of the sudden.
Anyways, i expect this to be a mediocre season. Even though this is the season that's beyond what's written in the books by the author as he still hasn't completed his last 2.
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im afraid jabberwork is right. that armored character is arthur dayne, and the R+L=J theory is just that, a theory. nothing has been confirmed yet, actually, there's alot of evidence that points otherwise. that jon is really ned's bastard son. so let us not turn speculations into facts and get ahead of our selves.
i really really don't want this theory to be true. jon feels like a true northerner, he endures the cold, he has a direwolf like the rest of the starks and he is black of hair like his uncle benjen. jon snow is a true stark imo.
also, he has shown no affinity to fire like dany did. -
So, where do you think the hounds that were chasing Sansa dissapeared, guys? ; )
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So, where do you think the hounds that were chasing Sansa dissapeared, guys? ; )
They are probably with Gendry…
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the hound is dead…. kinda officialy
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the hound is dead…. kinda officialy
His character was popular, he was left for dead not outright killed, and
! he's all but confirmed to be alive in the books.
Not sure why anyone would assume he's definitely dead. -
His character was popular, he was left for dead not outright killed, and
! he's all but confirmed to be alive in the books.
Not sure why anyone would assume he's definitely dead.! One reason is where he "died". In the books, it was close to the Quiet Isle where they help anyone. In the show, it's in The Vale, with there's lees likely help for him.
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@S.C.:
! One reason is where he "died". In the books, it was close to the Quiet Isle where they help anyone. In the show, it's in The Vale, with there's lees likely help for him.
! Sure, maybe, but the Quiet Isle doesn't appear in the shows, nor does anything similar to it as far as we know. So there's no fixed location for a monastery and Sandor's just as likely to end up in one in the Vale as he is near Saltpans.
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Fair poing, Jabberwok.
And lo and behold, more shitty writing involving Ramsay. So, the Umbers won't swear fealty to him, but they're fine handing a Stark over to him? And with the Greatjon still alive and free beforehand? Absouletly terrible.
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@Cyan:
Dolorous Edd's ten minutes as Lord Commander were the greatest the Watch has ever known.
! The king is back, baby
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Episode 3:
! Jon Snow is back, and he's probably leaving the Night's Watch as expected. I've always had a grudging respect for Thorne, especially on the show, and seeing the way he died reinforces that. At least fucking Olly is dead. My one quibble with the Castle Black is that Davos immediately claims that he has no idea why Jon is back, which just goes to underline the fact that on the show there's no real reason for anyone to have attempted to revive Jon. They're no threatened by Thorne's group anymore and Jon doesn't do much to organize the Night's Watch before bailing. Pretty weakly plotted imo.
! Ramsay's a douchecanoe, Rickon got aged up, and whichever Umber character that was proved entertaining if somewhat untrue to the books. I don't see any point in keeping Rickon alive at all since he provides a rival claim to Winterfell. But all I'm really hoping for from all this is that we get some savory Wyman Manderly goodness later in the season, which I think is made more possible by the mention of White Harbor by Bowen Marsh(?).
! The Tower of Joy scene was passable. I figured that Howland Reed would appear at the end to injure Arthur Dayne but I was anticipating more of an Achilles tendon injury leaving him open instead of a straight throat stab. Not a big deal, but I was a bit annoyed Gerold Hightower was something of a non-factor and that they gave Dayne two sword instead of his famous sword Dawn.
! Arya's training happened rather quickly. The later cut to Qyburn almost made me think that she had jumped straight into some later training.
! Jaime still pisses me off by portraying loyalty to Cersei, even if it's all in the name of his children. They should really add a scene in there somewhere soon to remind us of the rift between the two. He's all but forgotten his Season 3 characterization by this point. Glad they worked Olenna Tyrell in more.
! Dany is whatever. Not the worst acting Emilia Clarke has done for the show. Kind of surprised at the role reversal between Sam and Gilly on the boat, since a person who's never been to sea before should probably not be just fine during a fierce storm. And I appreciated Missandei and Grey Worm shutting down Tyrion hard, especially since the writers have been giving him so many terrible lines. Show Varys is still too generous and trustworthy, but I'm curious to see where the show will go with its miniature Meereenese Knot.All in all, a mostly decent and pleasingly uneventful episode.
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High Sparrow sitting Tommen down and imparting wisdom, like to stay in school and not do drugs.
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Okay, more of a breather episode compared to the previous two, but still had plenty of good stuff in there. My thoughts:
! Yay for Jon being alive! I honestly can't blame him for wanting to leave the Night's Watch after what happened, and I'm expecting he'll have changed some. That being said, I hope he's not too different from the Jon we know and love–I hope he still has most of the same traits we love about him. Wonder what the Night's Watch will do next, and whether or not we're really done with the Wall for a while.
! As for those deaths: I'm not sad Alliser's dead, but I did respect him, in a way. He was more of an enjoyably hateable character (as EW put it, the Snape to Jon's Harry in some ways), and had a good run on the show. Olly, though, was annoying as shit, so I'm straight-up glad he's dead.
! That whole scene with Tyrion, Missandei, and Grey Worm was really awkward, and seemed unnecessary. Did like Varys's interrogation scene, though. I know he's different from his book characterization, but I don't mind at all; show-Varys is actually one of my favorite characters.
! Glad they didn't drag out Arya's blindness anymore, that would have sucked if it had gone on all season. Something else I wish they wouldn't drag, though, is Drogon coming back for Dany. I'm pretty sure they were together when the Dothraki found them in the books, so I'm assuming he's gonna show up for her at some point soon here, too. I don't want that to take the rest of the season.
! Still waiting for Jaime to ditch his crazy-bitch-lady sister and go off and do his own thing and be awesome. I loved his characterization in Seasons 3 and 4, but it seems like he's gone back to acting closer to how he did before that. Can't say I like it, and I hope that changes soon.
! When Umber revealed Osha and Rickon I was all like "Fuuuuuuuuu-". And poor Shaggydog ~__~. Is anything ever going to right for the poor Stark family? It's one thing after another for these guys. As for the Umbers: if I understood right, they said that the previous Greatjon Umber (who became super-loyal to Robb after Grey Wind bit his fingers off) died, and this guy was his son, right? And they don't really like the Boltons but are offering an alliance to them to get rid of the wildings who are now south of the Wall?
! By now, I'm pretty convinced that Gilly's Little Sam found the secret to eternal youth and is going to remain a baby forever. How is that thing still that young? Secretly a demon baby x__x
@mbaruh:This season probably.
Oh, dear god, I hope so. More than ever now.
why? ramsay is the best antagonist in this show imo, right behind the the white walkers king.
Stuff like what happened in this episode is why: he's a smug asshole who always gets his way. As Screen Junkies put it in their Honest Trailer, he's like "Invincible Joffrey"; at least Joffrey, however hateable he was and for all the horrible things he did, was occasionally put in his place by various characters (either verbally or, in Tyrion's case with his Imp Slaps, physically) and didn't always get what he wanted. Whereas with Ramsay, any time he appears to have a setback or something that doesn't go his way, he gets the last laugh in the end, at least so far. Sansa and Theon getting away and Myranda dying are pretty much the only exceptions to that, but even in those cases, he's not that broken up about Myranda, and Theon and Sansa are both completely scarred for life. Basically, Ramsay's pretty much become a Villain Sue by now, and that makes him incredibly frustrating to watch, IMO.
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This brought back the feelings I had when I started watching the show but before I read the books.
! All the Jon Snow stuff is new and I'm kind of glad he left the Night Watch. He was one of my least favorite characters. Just really dull to watch and read. I feel that way about most of the Starks except Araya, Sansa is getting better. A change of environment and the possibility of putting him back into the story with the rest of the main characters is exciting. I also thought all the scenes were done well.
! Really disappointed they didn't do the full speech for the Tower of Joy, it's one of my favorite parts in the book. The fight was really well done. I agree Hightower went down too easily and there was supposed to be three kingsguard and they ruined Dawn. I'm not sure if they didn't think they could choreograph a cool fight using a greatword or they just didn't care. Still it was really cool to watch a guy use two swords to battle four people.
! Excited to see Sam's home and family. Really happy to see Olenna is still around. That Varys scene was awesome. Tyrions scene was funny. That scene with the High Sparrow was creepy, it reminded me of my short stay at a jesus camp. Religion can be creepily contagious to young minds but I'm not sure how old Tommen is supposed to be.
! And Rickon's back!
! Why I'm not sure unless we're going to watch Ramsay kill Osha and torture then kill Rickon. Which would be a shame. I don't think that's going to happen though, he's here for a reason. But it really was weird for Katstark to just hand him over to Ramsay like that. Not just weird but stupid. Every breath Rickon takes is a challenge to Ramsay's claim and something he would want no one to know so every moment that Rickon is alive won't make any sense. Especially after we see what he did to his father and Fat Walda just because she had a boy.
! Overall though like I said i haven't had this feel about an episode of GoT in awhile and it feels good. I'm probably going to rewatch the entire thing at least once. -
! Jamie, damn you, your book counter-part is so much better than than this.
! Other than that, good episode. This season has the misfortune of being Jon's revival season. Unfortunately no one else's storyline can match that at the moment.
! Jon executed Janos, and now these people. I like that. He's growing up. And he's doing the executing himself, just like Ned and Robb did.
! I'd completely forgotten that the North might not like Jon's new friendship with the wildlings. I thought it'd all be go down smoothly. -
With so many plotlines at the time in every episode it somehow doesn't feel like they get something done. Especially in King's Landing. Why show us this place when everyone involved with this plotline (including the Martells and the High Sparrow) won't even talk, much less come to an agreement, with each other? For like ages now (ok last season).
! I wonder what Jon will do now. The North may remember the Starks, but won't forget the Wildling raids too. And I miss Littlefinger.
! Also: "A girl has a montage" best comment of the year so far :D -
I'm really enjoying this season so far, it's been a long time since I had fun watching an entire episode of Game of Thrones but this episode I liked every single scene. Probably because there was no Dorne, no Sansa and the little Brann that we got was overshadowed by Ned Stark and his goofy sword battle.
! I kept laughing at this scene
Gilly: "I would never do that to the father of my child"
Samwell: *Looks at son. Proceeds to throw up in barrel -
horn hill is gonna show up! im hoping to see randyll tarly. from what i read about him he seems like quite the badass.
i liked this episode alot, but some of those scenes felt like filler. specifically, the high sparrow and the king scene, the tyrion "games" scene, and the small counsel scene. they felt pointless imo.
and i really don't understand what kevan lannister wants, he's against cersei and jamie for some reason yet he's not showing any particular agenda or manipulating the king to do anything. such a frustrating character, hope he gets killed quickly (which imo is very likely, judging from the cursed position of "the hand", and by the way cersei and jamie got awkwardly ditched. that burn is just too sick to be ignored).
jon snow is leaving the nightswatch, which is technically okay now because he did die. i don't know where this is going but i hope it's not just needless dragging. he looked like he was going to the far north when he left, so maybe he will find brandon? hopefully that plays out well. -
I can't wait until we meet Randyll Tarly, the Kindest Human Being in the World.
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S6 Ep3
! Shaggydog! :(
! What's even the point of these wolves in the show? Nymeria has never been mentioned again and I can't even remember if Summer is with Bran right now. I mean, I assume so. I guess you only somewhat matter if your name is Ghost. Also, where was Ghost when Jon left the Night's Watch?
! Other than that, I certainly hope at least some part of the North still remembers. -
Whereas with Ramsay, any time he appears to have a setback or something that doesn't go his way, he gets the last laugh in the end, at least so far. Sansa and Theon getting away and Myranda dying are pretty much the only exceptions to that, but even in those cases, he's not that broken up about Myranda, and Theon and Sansa are both completely scarred for life. Basically, Ramsay's pretty much become a Villain Sue by now, and that makes him incredibly frustrating to watch, IMO.
Villain Sue's aren't really a problem unless you think Ramsay isn't going to get his comeuppance.
Which of course he is. He's a villain. Which is why the tropes link specifies that shit is rare. This just doesn't fit.
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@Monkey:
Villain Sue's aren't really a problem unless you think Ramsay isn't going to get his comeuppance.
Which of course he is. He's a villain. Which is why the tropes link specifies that shit is rare. This just doesn't fit.
I definitely do think that he's going to get his comeuppance eventually, but meanwhile, it's dragged on way too long with him getting pretty much no payback. It's to the point where, eventually (at least for me), when he does get offed, the feeling will be less like "All right, booyah!" and more "Oh my GOD, FINALLY!" This article here sums up how I feel about Ramsay by now in a nutshell.
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i wouldn't call ramsay predictable. he killed his father for having another son, he freed theon just so he can imprison him again, and he sent balon theon's penis with a letter that starts with "balon greyjoy. i give you until the full moon to order all ironborn scum out of the north and back to those shit-stained rocks you call home."
his motivation was quite clear to me. he's insecure about being a bastard, he wants to be a true bolton and he wants to rule. he's not as incompetent as joffery and he's skilled in fighting and archery which made him alot more likable than joffery. -
Ramsay's in for a fun time when the North rallies around Jon and Sansa.
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The worst part of Ramsay is that none of his actions have consequences. Ramsay sent Balon that letter two or three seasons ago and nothing of lasting impact happened from it. The Boltons rebel AGAIN against the crown by marrying Ramsay to Sansa and we haven't heard shit about it in King's Landing. House Bolton's hold on the North SHOULD be on thin ice - Roose even mentioned that a few times - and Ramsay is going around stomping to show he's all that. And virtually nothing bad has happened to his plans since then. He's the least compelling character on the show because he has no depth, minimal motivation, and no consequences to his actions. Ramsay goes around killing and torturing better characters without a thought in the world because the writers have decided that we should hate him, but I hate him because he's a shitty excuse for a character, not because of what he's done to more sympathetic characters.
Nobody is invested in him and most people just want him gone. He's cartoonishly evil and a blight on the series.
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I almost miss Joffery. The High Sparrow wouldn't pull this shit with him in charge.
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I just want Ramsay dead, I'm bored at him.
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Have you guys taken a literature class? And are you guys really complaining about ramsays story?
Can we all agree that Danys story has been the weakest link to this entire story since after season 1 (even in the books this is true). Ser friendzone and pimps side arc is literally the worst arc ever in the history of arcs ever in the making. It's so goddamn boring not even the inevitable dragon ownage is going to save this one.
Ramsay's action have had consequence. HIm being an asshole pretty much resulted to Sansa (an important key to the north) fleeing and going up north. Roose bolton favored not going up north to fight Jon snow. Roose being ALIVE pretty much means the plot wont be going forard any time soon. So he actually needed to die for this battle up north to take place.
Right now there are 3 key players to the north.
Ramsay
Jon snow
LittlefingerOne of these people is going to come out victorious in taking control of the north. My prediction is that when both sides are at their weakest littlefinger will come in and swoop in to take a victory while everyone else is injured. He is too smart at this game to lose just yet.
And ramsay isn't dumb btw. Not nearly as stupid as Joffrey and has some sense of military tacticts. It's entirely possible that an evil person can be intelligent. Ramsay isn't stupid.
Also, the snake sisters are atrocious actors. But I'm looking forward to the inevitable lannister vs dorne battle.
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@Cyan:
Ramsay's in for a fun time when the North rallies around Jon and Sansa.
But it'll have been a pretty good ride for him up until THAT point.
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But it'll have been a pretty good ride for him up until THAT point.
Jon: Anything to say?
Ramsay: Eh, can't complain. I had fun. Say goodbye to Twenty for me.–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I almost miss Joffery. The High Sparrow wouldn't pull this shit with him in charge.
Joffrey getting torn limb-from-limb by zealots would've been a great capstone to season 3 imo
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Better than that weak poising death that's for sure but at least his royal guards would have stabbed through the High Sparrow before Joffery met his demise.
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Better than that weak poising death that's for sure but at least his royal guards would have stabbed through the High Sparrow before Joffery met his demise.
After a few minutes of deliberation, of course. Can't do things like save the king all reckless-like.
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The worst part of Ramsay is that none of his actions have consequences. Ramsay sent Balon that letter two or three seasons ago and nothing of lasting impact happened from it. The Boltons rebel AGAIN against the crown by marrying Ramsay to Sansa and we haven't heard shit about it in King's Landing. House Bolton's hold on the North SHOULD be on thin ice - Roose even mentioned that a few times - and Ramsay is going around stomping to show he's all that. And virtually nothing bad has happened to his plans since then. He's the least compelling character on the show because he has no depth, minimal motivation, and no consequences to his actions. Ramsay goes around killing and torturing better characters without a thought in the world because the writers have decided that we should hate him, but I hate him because he's a shitty excuse for a character, not because of what he's done to more sympathetic characters.
Nobody is invested in him and most people just want him gone. He's cartoonishly evil and a blight on the series.
He has the same motivation as like 75% of the cast. To grab more and more power and hold on to it.
Not sure why in this case it's unacceptable.
He was recently clearly afraid of his dad and the thin ice of his bastard title being used against him. That got cleared up. So we'll see what's coming next.
I'm not sure the Crown has any idea what's going on in the North right now, and they're definitely pre-occupied with Dorne as it is. -
@Monkey:
He has the same motivation as like 75% of the cast. To grab more and more power and hold on to it.
Not sure why in this case it's unacceptable.Okay, fair, but in most cases there's something of a deeper motivation behind them. Joffrey was a mess but he was both spoiled and neglected. Tywin was concerned about his family's legacy. Cersei hates her role as a women and is fearful of being replaced, Tyrion wants to be respected and remembered as someone important, Ellaria wants revenge for her lover, and Olenna wants to expand her family's influence instead of being the silver medal of families. There's nothing wrong with wanting power in this series but there's usually some underlying cause for it, especially since leaders die pretty regularly. I would have bought Ramsay killing Roose more if they had better accentuated Ramsay's desire for legitimacy. As is, it feels like Ramsay's primary motivation is simple sadism and he has to do something heinous every episode just because
He was recently clearly afraid of his dad and the thin ice of his bastard title being used against him. That got cleared up. So we'll see what's coming next.
I'm not sure the Crown has any idea what's going on in the North right now, and they're definitely pre-occupied with Dorne as it is.Roose and Littlefinger were both acting like the marriage would have immediate repercussions, especially since the whole point was to unite the North, the Vale, and potentially the Riverlands in defeating the Crown. I dunno, I guess I'm still just annoyed that they decided to unceremoniously off a competent villain in order to build up a cartoonish plot-armored one.
Speaking of the Riverlands, it sure would be nice to know what's happening there. Maybe we'll abruptly find out next season what's happened to Brynden and Edmure.
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What is littlefinger doing here. I like how the show just cuts off other people and puts them in this sort of freeze status while everyone else moves forward. Usually littlefinger has a masterplan and is always ahead of people by several steps.
Ramsay is evil but I feel like he is a product of his enviroment. Ramsay just wanted to be accepted by Roose as a legitimate son. When he is around roose he sort of becomes a different person. And I feel like when his gf died there he showed what appeared to be a small semblance of humanity (however small). I don't think he is cartoonishly evil. No more than Joffrey is. And I don't think it's fair to call tywin evil either. Tyiwin is just the type of person who is ruthless in maintaning the status quo. Is tyrion evil for killing his own father?
Anyways, if you wanna talk about shitty characters I like how nobody points fingers to the boring person that Dany has become. There seems to be a lot of bias here due to the negative conotation of evil in morality.
I look forward to ramsay vs wildlings. I wanna see giants eat people and shit.
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@Monkey:
He has the same motivation as like 75% of the cast. To grab more and more power and hold on to it.
Not sure why in this case it's unacceptable.Okay, fair, but in most cases there's something of a deeper motivation behind them. Joffrey was a mess but he was both spoiled and neglected. Tywin was concerned about his family's legacy. Cersei hates her role as a women and is fearful of being replaced, Tyrion wants to be respected and remembered as someone important, Ellaria wants revenge for her lover, and Olenna wants to expand her family's influence instead of being the silver medal of families. There's nothing wrong with wanting power in this series but there's usually some underlying cause for it, especially since leaders die pretty regularly. I would have bought Ramsay killing Roose more if they had better accentuated Ramsay's desire for legitimacy. As is, it feels like Ramsay's primary motivation is simple sadism and he has to do something heinous every episode just because
He was recently clearly afraid of his dad and the thin ice of his bastard title being used against him. That got cleared up. So we'll see what's coming next.
I'm not sure the Crown has any idea what's going on in the North right now, and they're definitely pre-occupied with Dorne as it is.Roose and Littlefinger were both acting like the marriage would have immediate repercussions, especially since the whole point was to unite the North, the Vale, and potentially the Riverlands in defeating the Crown. I dunno, I guess I'm still just annoyed that they decided to unceremoniously off a competent villain in order to build up a cartoonish plot-armored one.
Speaking of the Riverlands, it sure would be nice to know what's happening there. Maybe we'll abruptly find out next season what's happened to Brynden and Edmure.
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The crowns problems start with the faith and the tyrels, dorne and the north are mostly unconquerable but they can't field enough soldiers to beat an united front of lanisters and tyrels. And what's left of stormlanders after the blackwater battle.
There is also the only completely fresh big army, the vale's.
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The problem with Ramsay is that he's just a shallow hate sink with no redeeming or interesting aspects to his character. And we've suffered him for far, far too long. There's also a tinge of pretentious coolness to him, like we're supposed to find him badass and complex and engaging. When he's really, really not. At least in the books, he's just shallow scum that we only get in small doses with most of his heinous acts being implied off screen mostly to nobody characters. For example, we didn't sit through five chapters of him torturing Theon, that was all offscreened. When he finally dies in this show, there will be no satisfaction, it will only be a feeling of about fucking time, you idiots.
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With stanis dead, the north bracing for more important issues, the iron born and dorne being circumstantial issues that can be contained until they can be solved, the reach the westerlands and the storm lands under the crown, little finger being "quiet" and the riverlands in shambles, with the bank of bravos without a claimant to support and daenerys still preocupied, it is time for shit to hit the fan and to reveal that tonmen is not legitimate.
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With Stannis dead, Dany on another continent, and the nonexistence of a certain other book character, there's literally no other character with a public claim on the throne. It doesn't even need to be a strong claim, but as far as we know no other major house has even a minor one as a pretext.
Which is naturally why we're going to get an R+L=J reveal before too long.
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There is just too much going in the north rigth now for that to be made public. Besides, if R+L=J is true, then Jon is still a bastard, it is only good for prophecy and eugenics.
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! @Jabberwok:
! > The worst part of Ramsay is that none of his actions have consequences.
! There's a pretty big "yet" to be attached to that.
! @Jabberwok:
! > Ramsay sent Balon that letter two or three seasons ago and nothing of lasting impact happened from it.
! Balon doesn't care about his son and essentially disowned him because he "wasn't a man anymore".
! Asha/Yara tried to storm The Dreadfort and rescue Theon, failing because Theon was so mentally broken and wouldn't leave.
! What else was meant to come of it?
! @Jabberwok:
! > The Boltons rebel AGAIN against the crown by marrying Ramsay to Sansa and we haven't heard shit about it in King's Landing.
! Qyburn is literally just getting Varys' little birds back into flight, with Cersei even specifying that she needs birds in the North.
! Information doesn't seem to be flowing freely from The North right now.
! @Jabberwok:
! > House Bolton's hold on the North SHOULD be on thin ice - Roose even mentioned that a few times - and Ramsay is going around stomping to show he's all that.
! It's going to come back to bite him, especially now that Roose isn't there to keep him under control or do the tactical thinking.
! @Jabberwok:
! > He's the least compelling character on the show because he has no depth, minimal motivation
! He's basically the dark Jon Snow.
! Ramsay is the embodiment of the mistreatment of bastards in Westeros and how mentally fucked up it could lead someone to be.
! I find that pretty compelling.
! @Jabberwok:
! > and no consequences to his actions.
! He's lost his wife who was the key to the North, after he treated her and the guy who helped her escape, so horribly.
! He's also being set up for a battle of the bastards with one of the golden children of the series, who's literally already cheated death this season.
! Do you think Ramsay's walking away from that?
! @Jabberwok:
! > Ramsay goes around killing and torturing better characters without a thought in the world because the writers have decided that we should hate him
! He tortures and brutalises people because he's fucked up in the head, has been constantly looked down on his whole life and is the bastard offspring of a house famed for torture.
! What better way to get back at the world than by hurting people who society has dictated are better than him? and in the kind of brutal fashion that his house is famed for?
! That's my take, anyway.
! @Jabberwok:
! > , but I hate him because he's a shitty excuse for a character, not because of what he's done to more sympathetic characters.
! We'll have to disagree on how good a character Ramsay is.
! @Jabberwok:
! > Nobody is invested in him
! I, at the very least am invalidating that statement.
! @Jabberwok:
! > and most people just want him gone.
! He's a villain who's done some downright disgusting things, of course they want him gone.
! @Jabberwok:
! > He's cartoonishly evil
! I wouldn't say so.
! Almost everything he's done has had a clear motivation behind it.
! He'd be cartoonishly evil if say, he'd killed Roose, Walda and the baby and then shown no interest in being Warden of the North.
! He's not just going around doing evil shit for no reason.
! @Jabberwok:
! > and a blight on the series.
! There are far bigger blights on this series than Ramsay Bolton could ever aspire to be. -
ramsay wants to rule because he is a bastard, instead of running away from his title like jon snow did. he faced it and eventually earned the bolton name.
he's an underdog who rose to power despite what people said about him. villains don't all have to be like tywin, we gotta have some crazy psychopaths from now and then.plus, the series has no real antagonist at the moment. cersei was humbled too much, the sons of the harpy don't have a face yet, the high sparrow is a delusional zealot but he's up against the lannisters so i wouldn't call him an antagonist, the same could be said about elia and the sand snakes but even if they weren't they're sucky anyways, the night king didn't show up yet and if he does i doubt he'll have a speaking role, and the mutineers at castle black just got executed.
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The thing is, I agree that having characters like Ramsay are okay every now and then; it's true, they can't all be Tywin Lannister. When Ramsay first showed up, he was different than other villains, and had the shock value behind all the horrible things he was doing. He was effectively scary and horrifying. My main issue that he's been around for way too long, doing more or less the same damned stuff for approximately three freakin' seasons so far. Pretty much every time he appeared in Seasons 4 and 5, he just did, talked about doing, or showed the results of doing various sadistic, cruel, terrible stuff. Eventually it gets to the point where it's less like, "Oh shit, it's Ramsay!" and more "Yeah, yeah, what despicable thing is Ramsay going to do today?" We've been getting a little more variety here in Season 6, but not very much.
Like, seriously, a character feeding his innocent stepmother and baby half-brother alive to the dogs should be equally as horrifying as a man burning his innocent daughter alive as a sacrifice to his god. And yet, Ramsay does so many other horrible things on an episode-by-episode basis that the whole thing with Walda felt like "Just another scummy thing to add to Ramsay's long, ever-growing list." Yes, it was terrible, but I was less horrified by it than I was by Shireen's death because this is pretty much par for the course for Ramsay by now, and thus doesn't have nearly the same shock value.
If they kill Ramsay off by the end of this season (because let's face it, there's almost no way it's happening before episode 9 or 10), I'll still be able to gain a sufficient amount of satisfaction from it. If he's still around by next season, though? By then I'll be too exasperated to properly be glad about his death when it happens.
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Well, considering that we all kind of saw Ramsay killing them coming, it wouldn't be much of a surprise. He glared at that woman all the time, bitterly. He was terrified of her unborn child.
Shireen was a surprise as it hadn't really been considered a possibility until that episode, and while Stannis is by no means a decent person, there was a question as to whether or not he was going to do it.
Granted, I'm not defending Ramsay much. I agree. His constant "how worse could I get" gets tiring, but I don't think that comparison works.
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True, I pretty much figured Walda and her baby were screwed from the start, but I was more making a comparison to the fact that both of those deaths were caused in horrifying ways. The fact that he chose feeding her alive to his dogs as the cause of death (instead of, say, just stabbing her like he did with his dad, or poisoning her) should have been more horrifying than it was (for me at least) because of how many other similarly terrible things he's done.
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! @RobZilla:
! > There's a pretty big "yet" to be attached to that.
! We've been waiting on that "yet" for basically three seasons now. His only real comeuppance has been daddy's admonishments.
! > Balon doesn't care about his son and essentially disowned him because he "wasn't a man anymore".Asha/Yara tried to storm The Dreadfort and rescue Theon, failing because Theon was so mentally broken and wouldn't leave.
What else was meant to come of it?
! In other words, literally nothing happened because of it. It was a subplot meant solely to take up space in an underfilled season that ended up showing what we already knew and keeping that status quo, ultimately just building Ramsay up as some deranged sexy shirtless god of war. And we hadn't heard from Yara since then until now, two seasons later. Clearly important.
! Ramsay also said he'll expel the Ironborn from the North and we're just kind of hearing about that secondhand now, two seasons later.
! > Qyburn is literally just getting Varys' little birds back into flight, with Cersei even specifying that she needs birds in the North.Information doesn't seem to be flowing freely from The North right now.
! Given that the point of marrying Sansa was to unite the North, you'd think the fact would be publicized. You don't need spies to hear about news that's being spread across half the continent.
! Speaking of which, it's so good that Roose and Littlefinger acted quickly on that alliance instead of just leaving Sansa to get abused by Ramsay.
! > It's going to come back to bite him, especially now that Roose isn't there to keep him under control or do the tactical thinking.
! Yeah, I should hope so.
! > He's basically the dark Jon Snow.Ramsay is the embodiment of the mistreatment of bastards in Westeros and how mentally fucked up it could lead someone to be.
I find that pretty compelling.
! That's great in concept but the execution, what with hitting us over the head with how terrible he is every episode, is pretty flawed.
! It'd be nice if there was some actual conflict or communication between the two by now. Jon's only being identified now as a potential threat to Ramsay, and Jon has no clue about what's going on in Winterfell.
! > He's lost his wife who was the key to the North, after he treated her and the guy who helped her escape, so horribly.He's also being set up for a battle of the bastards with one of the golden children of the series, who's literally already cheated death this season.
Do you think Ramsay's walking away from that?
! Ultimately, probably not. But D&D love making Ramsay seem invincible so I wouldn't be surprised if it takes way too fucking long and he cheats death in some absurd way.
! > He tortures and brutalises people because he's fucked up in the head, has been constantly looked down on his whole life and is the bastard offspring of a house famed for torture.What better way to get back at the world than by hurting people who society has dictated are better than him? and in the kind of brutal fashion that his house is famed for?
That's my take, anyway.
! Again, that's fine in concept, but we get the point by now. We don't have to underline how terrible a person he is every time he appears.
! > We'll have to disagree on how good a character Ramsay is.
! Sure. Fair.
! > I, at the very least am invalidating that statement.
! Hyperbole is the root of any good argument :ninja:
! > He's a villain who's done some downright disgusting things, of course they want him gone.
! I mean that many people don't care if he has a satisfying karmic death or not, they just want him out of the story. I would be as equally satisfied if he bled out after getting his dick eaten by Ghost as if he was randomly killed by Super Buu.
! > I wouldn't say so.Almost everything he's done has had a clear motivation behind it.
He'd be cartoonishly evil if say, he'd killed Roose, Walda and the baby and then shown no interest in being Warden of the North.
He's not just going around doing evil shit for no reason.
! Again, the cartoonishly evil aspect comes from the writers looking for new ways for him to be an awful person.
! The perfect example is in episode 1 of this season, where he "mourns" Myranda's death and then turns around and feeds her to his dogs. That's characterization we've never even seen a hint of before, and it's all for the "shock" value of immediately discarding it.
! > There are far bigger blights on this series than Ramsay Bolton could ever aspire to be.
! Yes, yes it does. Like Jaime's travesty of a character arc, Dany's bad acting, and the sinkhole known as Dorne. Let's be thankful that Ramsay's character doesn't quite reach the worst depths of the series /sarcasm -
Well, considering that we all kind of saw Ramsay killing them coming, it wouldn't be much of a surprise. He glared at that woman all the time, bitterly. He was terrified of her unborn child.
Shireen was a surprise as it hadn't really been considered a possibility until that episode, and while Stannis is by no means a decent person, there was a question as to whether or not he was going to do it.
Granted, I'm not defending Ramsay much. I agree. His constant "how worse could I get" gets tiring, but I don't think that comparison works.
actually not quite right. Shireen was kind of foreshadowed when Melisandra mentioned it. But it was something Stannis thought would be ridiculous and something he'd never do. Also, he is been burning people since like season 1. it was bound to happen really.