By the stance of Zoro I'm still routing with Sanzen Senkai, which is one of his ultimate moves. Vanessa is probably right and it is still the same move even if the Wado is pointing to the other side.
Chapter 601: "Romance Dawn for the New World" Discussion
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I still don't get what the use is of using gear second on only his arm?
Isn't gear second for getting faster, so his arm got faster but his body
still is the same.. -
I still don't get what the use is of using gear second on only his arm?
Isn't gear second for getting faster, so his arm got faster but his body
still is the same..we don't know yet, however we can guess that all the effects of gear 2 are restricted to his arm while the rest of his body remains unaffected. this may have to do with lessening the side effects of gear 2.
Given Ussops comment about Luffy's new fighting style being worrying back in TB and all the other foreshadowing that was done about using gear 2, I think that he has found some way around the side effects of it.
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I still don't get what the use is of using gear second on only his arm?
Isn't gear second for getting faster, so his arm got faster but his body
still is the same..Means his attack would be more powerful.
Why should his entire body need to be at peak speed for 1 punch?
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Great chapter
16 chars
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Y doesn't ruffy say "soru"
He obviously using it with his gear 2 -
Means his attack would be more powerful.
Why should his entire body need to be at peak speed for 1 punch?
I thought G2 is for speed and G3 is for strenght..
his attack is just faster, not stronger per se.
(just look at the fight between him and lucci) -
I'm not sure to be happy with Boings How use gear second in only one bodypart-theory
Correct me if I'm wrong but what you are saying is basicly, that he cuts his circulation down to Heart –> Arm --->Lungs --> Heart.
How should that work? And I don't mean the cutting off the other parts with Gomo Gomu powers. I mean, how should the blood flow back to the heart?
And: Cutting the blood flow to the Brain leads to unconsciousness within seconds (less than 10) . Blood Chokes (aka Strangleholds) are WAY more effective than regular air chokes.
So even if Luffy would use Boings method, it would be a ONE-ATTACK-POWERUP.PS: To piss off some people I am going to add: Just like Asura. ;-)
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Maybe he uses the attack quickly in one second and quickly puts his circulation back to normal pace?
Could be, I dunno -
I thought G2 is for speed and G3 is for strenght..
his attack is just faster, not stronger per se.
(just look at the fight between him and lucci)Well what is stonger a surgical strike? or a crushing blow? Both have their strengths and weaknesses.
So while G3 May have been even more devistating it was also not the best to use in that situation - besides it worked lol -
I've always assumed that he had no control at all, that he was juts made of rubber without any other abilities attached, you say otherwise but I'm not sure where you see any evidence for that.
Luffy's ability is actually extremely versatile when you get down to it. If you want an example of him just relaxing his elasticity and flailing around, go back and check his octopus attack that he used against Enel.
I wonder how boiga would explain gear third using science.
If you really must know, Gear 3 isn't as strictly logical as Gear 2, but it does follow it's own rules. Basically, Luffy bites into the bone of his thumb and blows air into the spongy tissue inside. He then inflates this area up to an extreme degree and manipulates the giant bubble inside his skeleton until it reaches the target area. Don't ask me how the air gets past the joints because it just does.
In practical terms though, this gives his attacks added size and hardness. It's the like the difference between being hit in the head with an empty basketball shell and a fully inflated ball. Or in luffy's case, it's the difference between shooting someone with a rubber bullet and hitting someone with an inflated tractor tire moving at roughly the same speed (which again is generally aided by an elastic whiplash.) The shrinking side effect is mostly just a plot device drawback, but might be explained by luffy over extending the elastic potential of his skeleton (which are normally very brittle) and so when he deflates he can't immediately snap back to his original form; sort of like an over stretched rubber band.
That's a good point about the path of least resistance, didn't really think about that.
Putting aside the pressure going to the lungs for now, there's another issue. If you're restricting the blood flow to one limb, then that leaves Luffy a small window a time of about 40 seconds to get stuff done. Because all the oxygen would be going to the one Gear 2nd limb, then it's not getting to the others, obviously. This means that for the other limbs, they have to do anaerobic respiration. So at the beginning he's just using the ATP stored in the muscles, then some ATP is formed from creatine phosphate and ADP, then stored glycogen gets broken down to glucose, then oxidized to create more ATP. All the pyruvic acid produced during this is converted to lactic acid, which as we know makes our muscles nice and sore. So, not only is the activity of Luffy's un-gear 2'd limbs limited by time, he's also going to get some good build up of lactic acid. So he could probably get a minutes worth of activity out of it, but so much glucose is used during this for little ATP. And after that there shouldn't be much of anything to move his muscles.
One of my theories about why Gear 2nd tires luffy out so much is capillaries bursting under pressure. To perform their function, they've gotta be so thin, one cell thick, so even though they're rubber they should really, be quite easy to burst. I think the pressure isn't so great that all of them will no doubt burst, but enough that some of them can handle it, while some can't. Think about capillaries bursting in the lungs, around the alveoli. Oxygen can't diffuse as efficiently into the bloodstream, CO2 can't diffuse as efficiently to the lungs. So he gets a build up of CO2, causing him to start breathing heavily trying to expel it all, he can't get enough oxygen to his tissues, causing some muscles to operate anaerobically, causing lactic acid buildup like above. So while I said what I did above, I can also see how using one limb would be helpful. It wouldn't be creating as much CO2 because all the cells wouldn't be working as hard to create ATP, and it wouldn't require the same amount of oxygen that his whole body would. Honestly speaking, I don't know how many capillary beds would need to be damaged to actually start affecting anything, but it's an idea I've been entertaining for a little bit.
I honestly can't agree with you about him overriding his ANS. That's really talking like the GG DF is a logia. To really control his heart he'd have to be controlling the Ca and Na ions. But maybe I'm starting to look at all this tooooo scientifically? So really I think the whole premise of the idea, that he can alter vessel diameters to change a pathway is a falty one to begin with, simply because I don't think he has that much control over his body with his fruit.
I like your analysis, even if it is a little over the top. I agree with the rough two minute limit on safe Gear 2 usage and the potential capillary damage thereafter. If you notice, anytime he's had to maintain Gear 2 for longer than that, he's not capable of standing by the end of the fight without medical assistance(EL, ID, Marineford.)
Other sciency points-
-He's some how managing to expel the excess CO2 through his skin, so that waste product shouldn't be an issue.
-The need to keep stored glucose levels at a much higher level than normal might explain his eating habits.
-I don't think he has to divert all the oxygenated blood from his other limbs to maintain a specific high blood pressure zone in his arm. All he'd have to do is focus reducing flow to the other areas, not eliminating it.
-Luffy wouldn't be overriding his ANS any more than someone taking amphetamine. This is a short term doping technique we are referring to after all.
-In regards to how much control over his body he may have, I really don't see there being an issue. From my point of view, willfully manipulating the elastic modulus of a kidney can't be much harder than doing so for a limb, right? Logia are overrated. Why should making your guts be more or less stretchy be harder than making them more or less hot, freezing, dry, or bright?
@dinty:[Thomas Dolby] SCIENCE!! [/Thomas Dolby]
That's two in two weeks now. Both well-worth the read. (Nuzzie's responses were great, too). It's interesting how the "restart" of OP pulled so many old-timers back into the fray. I keep seeing names I haven't seen for years in the little "now viewing" section.
See, this is a great example of what people mean when they say that OP doesn't have to be 100% based in real-world science as long as principles of our world's science and principles of the OP world's science overlap in a consistent and complimentary way.
Hey dints. I was surprised by how much I enjoyed the reboot, especially after seeing how time skips completely destroyed my enjoyment of a couple of other series. Oda has done an impressive job allowing the characters to develop over the two years without losing their identities.
My one persistent worry though is that the inherent nature of the mission has now changed. Previously, the crew were a group of individualistically motivated people grouped together because their dreams were compatible. Now we have Usopp already having accomplished his goal to be a "Strong Warrior of the Sea." Zoro, who once threatened to disembowel Luffy if he got in the way of his ambition, has now swallowed his pride to become stronger for Luffy sake, not Kuina's. Sanji went through Okama hell for two years only because Luffy needed him. Nami cried because she couldn't be there to help luffy through a rough period.
Instead of Luffy sacrificing himself for the crew, as he had so many times along the course of this series, the crew has now subordinated their lifelong ambitions to Luffy's. I suppose this makes them a more tightly bound group than ever, but it might also mean that the story going forward will be more Luffy centric. It will be Luffy + supporting cast. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Apologies for length.
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I thought G2 is for speed and G3 is for strenght..
his attack is just faster, not stronger per se.
(just look at the fight between him and lucci)He becomes stronger with Gear 2 as well.
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Regarding: Is Gear 2 more powerful.
Phisics: E = mv^2
Energy = Mass x velocity^2 -
I'm totally sure that Oda went to physics and biology courses before coming with his attacks in OP.
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I'm totally sure that Oda went to physics and biology courses before coming with his attacks in OP.
yes of course its a manga:ninja:
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If you really must know, Gear 3 isn't as strictly logical as Gear 2, but it does follow it's own rules. Basically, Luffy bites into the bone of his thumb and blows air into the spongy tissue inside. He then inflates this area up to an extreme degree and manipulates the giant bubble inside his skeleton until it reaches the target area. Don't ask me how the air gets past the joints because it just does.
In practical terms though, this gives his attacks added size and hardness. It's the like the difference between being hit in the head with an empty basketball shell and a fully inflated ball. Or in luffy's case, it's the difference between shooting someone with a rubber bullet and hitting someone with an inflated tractor tire moving at roughly the same speed (which again is generally aided by an elastic whiplash.) The shrinking side effect is mostly just a plot device drawback, but might be explained by luffy over extending the elastic potential of his skeleton (which are normally very brittle) and so when he deflates he can't immediately snap back to his original form; sort of like an over stretched rubber band.
Damn… I was hoping you would come up with a logic explanation about how the air gets past the joints, the rest of the explanation I had already understood on my own, but the joints is the only real issue. But thanks anyway. :happy:
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Instead of Luffy sacrificing himself for the crew, as he had so many times along the course of this series, the crew has now subordinated their lifelong ambitions to Luffy's. I suppose this makes them a more tightly bound group than ever, but it might also mean that the story going forward will be more Luffy centric. It will be Luffy + supporting cast. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
Apologies for length.
First, dude the length of your posts is not something you should be apologizing for, your posts are awesome! Keep 'em coming!
now then, about it become more luffy centric, I don't think it will. Given how oda has handled the TS so far, keeping the crew basically the same, I think we can take that as an indicator for how the future adventures of the Straw hats will be, basically the same. Also they didn't subordinate their goals to luffy's they each realized on their own that they couldn't go further without becoming stronger. Even zoro's sacrifice was in TB wasn't about completely throwing away his goals, he was simply saying that if he couldn't protect his captain his while achieving his own ambition then his ambition wasn't worth much
http://somemanga.com/alt/One_Piece/485/citymanga.com/10/That's how I see it anyway.
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I thought G2 is for speed and G3 is for strenght..
his attack is just faster, not stronger per se.
(just look at the fight between him and lucci)Try getting hit by a car going 10 mph. there?
ok. now get hit by the same car while it's going 100 mph(try not to die) -
@Kokutou:
Try getting hit by a car going 10 mph. there?
ok. now get hit by the same car while it's going 100 mph(try not to die)that may be a difficult thing to try
speed limits and all
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If you look at the bottom center panel on page 13 of the chapter, you'll notice two "throb lines" right in front of luffy's chest as he activates the partial gear two without any substantial leg movement.
Given that this is the heart of your argumentation what do you say about the 2 lines behind luffys hat and above luffys shoulder above the picture you've chosen? And if you look at page 15 you can see many "throb lines" around zoros body and sword. According to your explanation zoros body was throbbing, so was luffys head and shoulder.
Thoses lines could easily be there to describe little movements of the body. Activating gear second is like "releasing a bomb in the body". -
Given that this is the heart of your argumentation what do you say about the 2 lines behind luffys hat and above luffys shoulder above the picture you've chosen? And if you look at page 15 you can see many "throb lines" around zoros body and sword. According to your explanation zoros body was throbbing, so was luffys head and shoulder.
Thoses lines could easily be there to describe little movements of the body. Activating gear second is like "releasing a bomb in the body".those are to indicate small movements but luffy was standing still so the movement have been his chest moving.
Edit: Ugh I just reread what I wrote and I blame no sleep, goodnight.
vWell we'll see what happens but I don't think it's like that
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Nah those are to indicate small movements but luffy was standing still so the movement have been his chest moving.
So did his head so did his arm and all that just because activating gear second is like an explosion in luffys body. As simple as that.
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Regarding: Is Gear 2 more powerful.
Phisics: E = mv^2
Energy = Mass x velocity^2I totally loll'd at this post :D
Never expected physics to show up on AP :P
You're right though, haven't thought of that..
even though Oda has been seen not to care about the laws of physics :P
(the time when chopper dodged in bullet in midair (while going up) by changing in his smaller form - skypiea) :P
thnx though :)\Edit: Uuhm i think you had things mixed up, you meant Impuls right? -> F = m*v (power = mass * velocity, ie more power when velocity increases)
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I totally loll'd at this post :D
Never expected physics to show up on AP :P
You're right though, haven't thought of that..
even though Oda has been seen not to care about the laws of physics :P
(the time when chopper dodged in bullet in midair (while going up) by changing in his smaller form - skypiea) :P
thnx though :)\Edit: Uuhm i think you had things mixed up, you meant Impuls right? -> F*t = m*v (power = mass * velocity, ie more power when velocity increases)
you forgot time (I=F*t)
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@statu:
you forgot time (I=F*t)
I'll just asume you're being sarcastic right?:P
Edit: Nvm, was bit confused there xD
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Regarding: Is Gear 2 more powerful.
Phisics: E = mv^2
Energy = Mass x velocity^2Just so you know, the equation is E=mc^2, where c is the speed of light. Or are you thinking of kinetic energy? The equation for finding kinetic energy is 1/2mv^2.
Anyway, I wouldn't worry about the laws of physics being perfect in OP. If you try to fit the one piece world into our world things start to fall apart. Great chapter by the way. The Zoro-Sanji bits were hilarious.
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I messed up a little:
Energy: E= 1/2 mv^2 (forgot the 1/2). Edit: Hello Sidonex, fellow Nerd.
Momentum: p = mvEnergy: How much energy do you need to crush someones bones?
Momentum: (Think about Billiard): If a ball with mass m1 and velocity v1 hits another (not moving) ball with m2 so that ball 1 is stopped and the second ball accelerated:
In an ideal world –> (1/2)m1v1(squared) (before crash) = m2v2(squared) (v2 =speed of ball 2 after hit).
The same applies if you punch with your fist (lets say m3) a face (m4) with v3.Then 1/2m3v3(squared) (kinetic energy of the fist before hit) = 1/2m4v4(squared) (k.e. of face after hit; v4 = head is punched away)
But there will be a difference in the real world so that the equation above won't be true.
Because a part of E3 = 1/2(m3)(xv3)^2 (kinetic energy of fist) will become deformation energy (aka face changes shape at the moment of impact).Higher Energy of the fist = More change of shape of the face.
Tony's air dodge could be explained if he somehow managed to throw the difference of weight between the heavier and the lighter form in a specific direction. (Actio = Reactio).
I AM A NERD AND PROUD OF IT.
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Am in a one piece Forum or a physics class ?
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Just to be an ever bigger nerd, E = mc^2 is the rest energy of a mass.
E = sqrt(mc^2 + (pc)^2)
Is the energy of an object (in motion or not), and simplifies to E=mc^2 when momentum (p) = 0.
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What is happening here? Did I click the wrong thread?
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You can't calculate anything so give it a rest…we dont have a clue about the gravity of OP world, we don't know how dense the air is...and the most important thing it's a manga not real life.
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You can't calculate anything so give it a rest…we dont have a clue about the gravity of OP world, we don't know how dense the air is...
Gravity and air density has no importance when calculating kinetic energy. (just look at the formula: Do you see a parameter that describes gravity or air density?).
And however I didn't wanted to Calculate a specific number (i don't know how fast gear second is or how fast his fist is). All I am saying is, that Gear Second increases not only the speed but also the destructive force of luffys punches.
–---And Yes, it is a Manga. But interestingly it's one of the mangas with the highest real life compatibility I know. (Except the Devil Fruits of course, but if you accept the hypothesis of existing DF even they are consistent).
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Don't be such spoilsports, Sea and nefra.
I enjoy seeing the science nerds' attempts to make Odaian physics make sense.
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@Sea:
What is happening here? Did I click the wrong thread?
Physicians are now analyzing luffys new strength applying real world formulas to a fictional world imagined by one author for 10 years old guys.
The topic is now fictional physics and the government is going to spend 1 Billion the next 2 years to… headshot
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I leave for a while and nerds talking physics take over the thread?
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I leave for a while and nerds talking physics take over the thread?
Nerds will rule the world someday
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this chapter is really good i like d last part :)
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Nerds will rule the world someday
We already do. We just make everyone else think we don't. :ninja:
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Wot what's this a bunch of physics Invading over AP could this be a Gov. conspiracy plot :P
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People discussing on reguar basis the latest Scanlated Chapters of a japanese Manga going so far as looking at Japanese RAWs because they can't wait until the translations are out, are calling other people Nerds…...
Welcome to the Mindfuck.
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Wot what's this a bunch of physics Invading over AP could this be a Gov. conspiracy plot :P
Anything but the government :cwy:
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The chapter is great, but why trying to apply physics AFTER kizaru?
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People discussing on reguar basis the latest Scanlated Chapters of a japanese Manga going so far as looking at Japanese RAWs because they can't wait until the translations are out, are calling other people Nerds…...
Welcome to the Mindfuck.
Well, at least they were being nerdy in the right place.
Manga nerds on a manga forum. So unusual. Perhaps they should go discuss about Perona being the next nakamate in a physics forum, using physics to prove she can fit through the door after examining her shoe size. -
if sentomaru is now a marine
then who is protecting dr. vegapunk, the kuma bots is not enough protection for worlds greatest scientist if luffy/zoro/sanji can destroy them easily -
@bartholemew:
if sentomaru is now a marine
then who is protecting dr. vegapunk, the kuma bots is not enough protection for worlds greatest scientist if luffy/zoro/sanji can destroy them easilyWell Zorro would say: Leave it to… luck.
Probably Kuma himself.
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Maybe there is no longer the necessity of protecting vegapunk. 2 years are a long time and there can happen eyerything. Starting from dying of old age, dying of murderer, disease, heck he could even decide to go back on the government and start being a pirate and be free. He works long enough for the government, could easily take little money or working material aside so that he can do his own things now.
I personally would like the idea of Vegapunk leaving the WG and maybe hiding as Robin did. So the SH can find him and exchange thoughts and inventions(especially franky).
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I hope you are joking. I am even going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
He was talking about those colors reminding him of an evil government. And to me it's quite obvious he's talking about Russia. But Russia hasn't actually done anything wrong, Soviet Union might've been a little questionable government, some might say it was pure evil, and yes, bad things happened in Soviet Union. But bad things also happened in Nazi-Germany, and I still don't think present germans as bad people. Russia isn't an evil government. Nowadays it's plagued by poorness, but that sure doesn't make people in Russia evil. Many people has stereotypes about Russia. And it'd be nice to correct those misconceptions.