http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2010/09/western-games-japan/
Unoriginal thread title is unoriginal.
This is probably extremely obvious but I thought it was an interesting read. I wouldn't expect the majority of the Japanese gaming community to be that close-minded. Mind you, I'm not exactly the most open-minded gamer but still..
Couldn't decide whether to post this here or the random articles discussion.
I don't think they should have used GTA since that sells a ton there but they are right (for the most part).
A lot of the real hardcore gamers will play western games but playing video games in Japan (that aren't usually casual) are usually relegated to otaku and that's it. Of course they aren't going to play western games.
I'm not really sure what's going on in Japan nowadays, though, because they seem to be morons coming from statements saying they can't figure out how to play open-world games or they can't figure out how to make their own levels without using a template (Megaman Universe) or that game controllers have too many buttons.
Western games are becoming more complex, as are the gamers, while Japan is going in the exact opposite direction.
I'm not surprised at another case where the Japanese come off as proud and easily threatened. While I prefer Japanese games most of the time (I like brawling action, not so much shooting) I'm not gonna pretend like most of their games aren't retarded or geared towards otaku.
Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
I'm not surprised at another case where the Japanese come off as proud and easily threatened. While I prefer Japanese games most of the time (I like brawling action, not so much shooting) I'm not gonna pretend like most of their games aren't retarded or geared towards otaku.
Gonna have to agree, here. This article is a mite bit baffling…
For every Okami there are 20 dating sims and 400 Dynasty Warrior spin-offs.
For serious: the end bit with the whole "these are the games people play in the West" made me want to backhand so many people… There is no god damn way anyone's that ignorant...!
I struggle to find a taste for fps games as well - last one I enjoyed totally was Quake 1.
Probably the western games I play the most tend to be from genres such as point & click, RTS and the old style strategy sim games(victoria II being the latest example), and the odd adventure game(prince of persia, darksiders etc).
Greg, do people really dismiss western games out of hand or is this article just hyperbole?
I've haven't talked to a lot of adults about games so I really can't offer too much on that end, but as far as kids and high school students go, they're usually just ignorant to Western games outside Grand Theft Auto. That one comes up a lot.
I have, however, spoken to some perfectly normal students that enjoy American fps games. I constantly get asked about what I think of the Call of Duty series which I've never even watched someone play.
I don't think there's some giant deep-seating feeling against them, they're just not aware of them.
When you walk into a Geo or Tsutaya you're not hit with "GAME OF THE MILLENIUM: BATMAN ARKHAM ASYLUM", it's more like, "SUPER ROBOT TAISEN: DOUBLE-R BJ-FTW DELUXE" or "DYNASTY WARRIORS OROCHI MUSOU SPIRIT REDUX 9999999".
I think in this day and age, aside from Squenix's bullshit 'Final Mixes' and the occassional early release date (something Squenix also cherishes while others have abandoned it or drastically shortened it) North America is the best place for games that don't include the word "Loli" in the title.
So can I fairly blame Japanese culture for Final Fantasy XIII? I mean, I kinda like having focus myself but not to the extent where all I can do is run down a corridor for 25 hours.
I've haven't talked to a lot of adults about games so I really can't offer too much on that end, but as far as kids and high school students go, they're usually just ignorant to Western games outside Grand Theft Auto. That one comes up a lot.
I have, however, spoken to some perfectly normal students that enjoy American fps games. I constantly get asked about what I think of the Call of Duty series which I've never even watched someone play.
I don't think there's some giant deep-seating feeling against them, they're just not aware of them.
Interesting. So I guess it might just be lack of coverage in the games media, or poor marketing.
Stuff like Arkham Asylum or Darksiders I would have expected to be fairly popular, since they're fantastic games with a zelda-style framework.
This is the country that thought Dark Knight was a horror film.
How…how ?
I believe the marketing focus on a scary ass looking guy in scary ass makeup had something to do with it
"Battomanu??? We donna noo Battomanu, whadda yuu meeeeen? We noo supaaaa hiiirooozu izu SUPAIDAAAAMAAAAN!"
Interesting and somewhat related:
http://kotaku.com/5642476/japanese-developers-making-awful-games
XBL: SympathyX PSN: CTD-SympathyX 3DS: 0344-9267-0120
I would say that some of them do u guys are just biass because it's not from the manga. If the filler arc was in the manga then I bet u guys would love it.
So can I fairly blame Japanese culture for Final Fantasy XIII? I mean, I kinda like having focus myself but not to the extent where all I can do is run down a corridor for 25 hours.
Didn't Japan blame the idea they were trying to make XIII more western already? XD
Interesting and somewhat related:
http://kotaku.com/5642476/japanese-developers-making-awful-games
I can't help but be kind of unnerved by statements like these.
I mean, I fucking LOVE Capcom but the last time they were vocal on the whole "BE LIKE WESTERN GAMES" move, they gave us Resident Evil 5, which was a good game but flawed to hell.
Gotta love Japan and it's quirks!
How…how ?
I believe the marketing focus on a scary ass looking guy in scary ass makeup had something to do with it
That, and I think "The Dark Knight" literally was translated as "The Dark Night".
I really don't get Japan sometimes.
Don't get me wrong, I, under normal circumstances, don't care for open world games myself. It's not so much I don't know what to do, it's more like "Okay I got the Space Jump…crap I have to backtrack to get the next power".
And I have to agree with Japan's sentiment for FPS. For every Halo:Reach or Duke Nukem, you get 10 of something like Haze.
Not to mention a majority of my favorite companies (Platinum games, Atlus) are Japanese.
But I do have to agree with the article. I respect that there are cultural differences, but it really is true that games are evolving and Japan is staying set in it's ways.
I'm not saying that all games need to be like western games, nor am I calling Japan morons for not liking open world games or the FPS genre. But when you have a culture that associates all western games with shit, something is seriously messed up.
I think this article from awhile back explains it nicely:
http://kotaku.com/5450647/japans-2ch-replies-to-rpg-complaints
Interesting and somewhat related:
http://kotaku.com/5642476/japanese-developers-making-awful-games
This is what I'm talking about. Even Japanese developers are getting that the Japanese is a very closed market. If you want to at least try new ideas, you have to try outside Japan. Again, I'm not saying everything western is superior, but you have a chance at making a profit with a new idea in the west.
Didn't Japan blame the idea they were trying to make XIII more western already? XD
This is the first I've heard of it. Frankly, I don't see it. XIII is as vapid and uninteresting as every other Final Fantasy after 7.
(Cue the hatemail)
Uh….right. Zidane was cool.
Arkham Asylum is the one game I wish had a bigger international following. It did well in representing western games, and I can't think of a better game based off of a comic from any country. Should have been the sorta thing to make people go "hey this 'Batman' is pretty awesome."
Originally Posted by Battle Franky
Bad move, bub!
Arkham Asylum is the one game I wish had a bigger international following. It did well in representing western games, and I can't think of a better game based off of a comic from any country. Should have been the sorta thing to make people go "hey this 'Batman' is pretty awesome."
The scarecrow levels were the best thing.
Also killer croc.
Loved the game screwing around with you and ramping up the tension.
The scarecrow levels were the best thing.
Also killer croc.
Loved the game screwing around with you and ramping up the tension.
Oh god yes. But I knew the moment Batman's eyes were red that something was a miss. Then I instantly thought, "Oh, it's just scarecrow".
My favourite things with scarecrow were
! game over/crash
Seriously had me fooled for a few seconds. The boss fights were suitably creepy too, just a great concept.
The only major point against the game was the overabundance of bane style bosses - that got old fast.
Everyone should play this game.
I'm not saying that all games need to be like western games, nor am I calling Japan morons for not liking open world games or the FPS genre. But when you have a culture that associates all western games with shit, something is seriously messed up.
This isn't necessarily true, when Katawa Shoujo's demo was released the Japanese got very excited and news of it got published in magazines, which built up a lot of hyper/interest for a completely Western-made game.
I don't doubt the Japanese buy into stereotypes of American-made…we do the same for products "Made in China". But I think the real key concept isn't some prejudice or arrogance, but a lack of interest or appeal in western games. How appealing could FPS be in a world where guns are rare and most people never see one...even ON TV?
Otaku don't have a lot of money, since the anime market fleeces them enough as-is. It's uneducated for the gaming lobby to think that otaku are going to put their fandoms aside for Western games...even if one overcomes the disinterest problem, there's still the economic one, and a major technical barrier to doujin making with closed-source, console based games. Japan would have to become a heck of a lot more Western to eat up more Western-made games.
I think this article from awhile back explains it nicely:
http://kotaku.com/5450647/japans-2ch-replies-to-rpg-complaints
So 2ch in Japan is pretty much like 4ch over here. How alarmingly appropriate…
I can't help but be kind of unnerved by statements like these.
I mean, I fucking LOVE Capcom but the last time they were vocal on the whole "BE LIKE WESTERN GAMES" move, they gave us Resident Evil 5, which was a good game but flawed to hell.
Give 'em some time to learn. It's a good sign if big shots like Inafune are realizing how stale the Japanese game market is getting. I say let 'em look to us for some new ideas, then after they start improving, we'll inevitably start looking to them for new ideas, and the cycle will continue.
I think this article from awhile back explains it nicely:
http://kotaku.com/5450647/japans-2ch-replies-to-rpg-complaints
I think this was the best(still very bad) quote out of all of those statements, and even it needs to add examples and details. I'm starting to wonder if the forum's that bad or if they just chose out some of the worst statements.
"Oblivion's okay, but foreign games lack subtlety. They lack detail, and the character design and stories are bad."
I also extremely disliked IGN's list. Putting the points aside, they basically singled out games from Japan and chose to ignore the Western games that do the same thing.
"Americans can't understand complexity so a lot of the best stuff doesn't get translated. Like Megami Tensei"
hey this part's completely true
In any case the West has it's endless FPS clones and the East has far too many dating sims and Hack and Slash type bores. Both sides still produce excellent games at times so this is a complete non-issue.
^THIS.
they don't like the shitty fad games that are a hit with western audiences right now over in japan?
EGADS.
lol! halo is a 'high-end' video game? it's ooookaay.
i guess something's wrong with me, but i prefer my DS to my 360 or a ps3, too..
it probably has less to do with a 'western-style' and more to do with the western-style tending to mean FPS games exclusively - maybe an open world here or there. i'm not big on fps games and right now, there isn't a whole ton of variety.
i agree that japanese games need to get out there and offer up some variety, too. this article ignores games like shenmue that were trying to push the envelope and throw the japanese gauntlet down into the next-gen ring. i'd like japanese developers to reach out and attempt more projects like that.
EDIT: ff9 was tedious, derivative shit. okay, not shit, but it was totally forgettable as far as rpgs go.
9 was the best FF.
yes. if you've never played any final fantasy game pre-FFVII..?
out of all the shitty, dull final fantasies, it's definitely one of the least shitty and dull.
So 2ch in Japan is pretty much like 4ch over here. How alarmingly appropriate…
..seriously? where do you think 4ch gets its entire name and concept from? seriously?
Also, it's a children's comic from Japan.
Why are you comparing it to cultural engravings and burritos.
This article was rather disturbing to read. A bit one sided too. It's like it's saying games in the west are made "better" only due to the high production costs and bland things the industry calls "innovation" or "freedom to choice". That and being the only reason these games don't sell well is because they are all close minded and want the same ole thing.
I don't really know what I should say further than that. It doesn't sell there because it doesn't sell. The demand for a crapton of shooters and "western taste" have been only a recent trend in this century. I mean, I'm sure a vet gamer that has been playing games since the NES or PSone era never noticed there was an FPS market to begin with. Especially considering how varied games were at the time.
Linearity in RPG's is awesome.
Awesome awesome awesome.
The more you control the story, the more controlled your character's growth and abilities are to properly suit the current needs/challenges.
"But I can't play it the way I wannaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa."
Fuck you. No really, FUCK YOU. It's complaints like that put us where we are with RPG's today.
I don't need to decide who the thief in my party is. Give me a goddamned thief and make it part of his/her story so they aren't 2D as shit.
But FF13 decided to take linearity, LITERALLY.
Anyway, again I'll offer that Western games are not simply shoved off as shit.
Hell, I know one kid who imports games for his DS because he thinks foreign games are more 'dynamic'.
When you get to Japanese hardcore gamers that hold those opinions and post on 2ch, they're the same assholes who think tentacle sex is a higher form of learning.
I personally prefer a balance between linearity and open-world. While I dislike being forced to go from Point A to Point B, it can also get ridiculous when a town is under constant attack and you can go the other way in the world to go collect a random artifact.
Linearity in RPG's is awesome.
Awesome awesome awesome.
The more you control the story, the more controlled your character's growth and abilities are to properly suit the current needs/challenges.
…
But FF13 decided to take linearity, LITERALLY.
Thank you Greg. This was exactly what I was trying to get at. 
What I don't like about most open world games is that it's too overwhelming. Without some kind of clear objective, I feel that I don't want to take part in the game (aka, not being immersed).
But on the opposite side of the spectrum, games that be too linear piss me off even more. This was what I was trying to convey when I mentioned Final Fantasy. To me at least, I feel like I'm not having any impact on the story with games this linear.
I'm okay sitting back and letting the developers tell their story, but when I, the player, feel like I'm not contributing at all to the story, I immediately lose interest in the game.
That's also basically what I meant when I tried to use Oblivion as an example. As far as an open-world game goes, you can get immersed, you just have to control yourself from running off to do alot of other things that should really wait until you feel like there's nothing that requires your immediate attention.
@Ao:
..seriously? where do you think 4ch gets its entire name and concept from? seriously?
I'm well aware of that, Sir Bitch-A-Lot, I'm saying it's appropriate that they've attracted the same level of intelligence in their userbases.
My deviantART|Project A.F.T.E.R.|My YouTube|Money and Power|AP Art Topic
Originally Posted by Buccaneer
Celine Dion post in the MK thread. I wish I could neg you.
Personally, I feel VANQUISH was a great Japanese shooter. Of course, it's by Platinum Games so I should expect no less. Can't wait for it to come out. Will probably rent it though, seeing as how it'll be a short single-player experience.
Was still pretty fucking awesome, though. Crazy accelerated mega-insane hyper quick paced fast shooting animu third person shooter.
I'm well aware of that, Sir Bitch-A-Lot, I'm saying it's appropriate that they've attracted the same level of intelligence in their userbases.
oh how you lie.
why would they NOT attract the exact same kind of crowd? it's the way the boards are setup, the anonymity allowed, etc., whatever, that draws in a very specific type of e-tard.
if you think 2ch is some hub of intellectual discourse simply because it's in a different language, you're deluding yourself.
Also, it's a children's comic from Japan.
Why are you comparing it to cultural engravings and burritos.
@Ao:
oh how you lie.
why would they NOT attract the exact same kind of crowd? it's the way the boards are setup, the anonymity allowed, etc., whatever, that draws in a very specific type of e-tard.if you think 2ch is some hub of intellectual discourse simply because it's in a different language, you're deluding yourself.
Oh my god why are you whining so much over a small observation shut up
My deviantART|Project A.F.T.E.R.|My YouTube|Money and Power|AP Art Topic
Originally Posted by Buccaneer
Celine Dion post in the MK thread. I wish I could neg you.
BREAKING NEWS
JAPANESE AND AMERICAN GAMERS, DEVELOPERS MISUNDERSTOOD, EASILY STEREOTYPED BY THE OTHEr
@Ao:
oh how you lie.
why would they NOT attract the exact same kind of crowd? it's the way the boards are setup, the anonymity allowed, etc., whatever, that draws in a very specific type of e-tard.if you think 2ch is some hub of intellectual discourse simply because it's in a different language, you're deluding yourself.
Wow.
You completely missed what he was saying.
Stop posting forever you miserable, moody old woman.
BREAKING NEWS
JAPANESE AND AMERICAN GAMERS, DEVELOPERS MISUNDERSTOOD, EASILY STEREOTYPED BY THE OTHEr
Was waiting for someone to just blurt this out.
Also, it's a children's comic from Japan.
Why are you comparing it to cultural engravings and burritos.
I'd like to take this time to say that morality choices are as pointless stupid as pointless stupid can be IMO.
@Ao Kiji
What the fuck is that even supposed to mean
Wow.
You completely missed what he was saying.
Stop posting forever you miserable, moody old woman.
i got what he was saying as well as understanding it was a backtracking BS statement to avoid embarassment. do you also understand how ridiculously obvious an observation it was?
it's like saying how appropriate people with asthma have to use an inhaler.
'hey guys! isn't it funny how 2ch and 4ch are almost the exact same things?'
oh, you mean those sites that are literally the same thing just in different languages? yeah, how ironic.
I wish SE would stop listening to the critics and just make a game. It's like the more famous a series becomes, the more it is inclined to take unnecessary steps to be taken seriously.
I struggle to find a taste for fps games as well - last one I enjoyed totally was Quake 1.
Just curious, what did you like in it? I'm much the same in that I was big into FPS before the online scene came about and they became really popular, but it was Quake that actually turned me off to all FPS until I got TF2 a few years ago.
Just curious, what did you like in it? I'm much the same in that I was big into FPS before the online scene came about and they became really popular, but it was Quake that actually turned me off to all FPS until I got TF2 a few years ago.
The proper 3dish enviroments where you could look up & down to properly different levels and the good level design was the main thing. From memory I think this was the first game that did that, so it was all very novel at the time.
A lot of little touches that amused me.
Firing a lightning gun into the water.
electrocuting the fire demon guy.
Teleporting inside the final boss.
The only thing I didn't like about the game was that it was so dingy compared to Doom.
