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Shasti

Manga chapter 319. Lots of interesting stuff crammed into this one. Above and beyond the whole â€œLuffyâ€s granddadâ€? stuff, the thing that bugs me most is just how the hell did Aokiji know that Robin was with the Straw Hats?

I mean, letâ€s look at it. Robin stowed away on the Going Merry as they left Arabasta. Up until that time, she was definitely one of the bad guys, not someone youâ€d expect to end up joining the crew. She didnâ€t show up until after they had escaped the Marines.

Next stop, Jaya. While Iâ€m sure itâ€s a lovely place, it doesnâ€t seem to be a place where the Marines would have much presence. Plus, while Robin was seen in the town, it didnâ€t seem as if anyone recognized her, much less tied her to Luffy's crew.

Then, we go to Skypeia. No marines there. From there, itâ€s Longring Longland and the Davy Back fight. Right after the fight ends, thereâ€s Aokiji, waiting for them. And hereâ€s the puzzler.

Aokiji says heâ€s only there to confirm the whereabouts of Nico Robin after the Arabasta incident. What led him to believe that sheâ€d be with the Straw Hats? She was their enemy, her last known location was buried under tons of rubble.

What gives? Any ideas? Any stuff I might have missed in the manga?

meethz

Hmmm.

Well, when Baroque Works ended we assume that the high-ranked officers were caught by the Marines, who found that the only person missing was Nico Robin, who held the highest female position as Crocodile's right hand person. And at the same time of her disappearance, the Straw Hats escaped from their clutches, never to be seen again. So maybe they just put two and two together and TA-DAH!

My two cents. Ehm.

Robin Stjernberg

I think this is something Smoker came up with. He first believed Luffy had something on the mind together with Croc. When he discovered that Luffy in fact was there to beat up Croc, he maybe thought Luffy's been asked by Nico to do so because he probably knewwhat kind of a person Nico is. My theory, it works, so I go by this till I hear something better.

Buccaneer

Basically what meethz said: they just assumed. Tashigi knew Nico Robin was in Alabasta, but when all the fighting stopped, and the crew left, she had vanished as well.

And Kiji was there to confirm it, meaning he wasn't completely sure if she was with them.

Zephos

Originally posted by Shasti@Jul 25 2005, 12:46 PM
**Manga chapter 319. Lots of interesting stuff crammed into this one. Above and beyond the whole “Luffy’s granddad” stuff, the thing that bugs me most is just how the hell did Aokiji know that Robin was with the Straw Hats?

I mean, let’s look at it. Robin stowed away on the Going Merry as they left Arabasta. Up until that time, she was definitely one of the bad guys, not someone you’d expect to end up joining the crew. She didn’t show up until after they had escaped the Marines.

Next stop, Jaya. While I’m sure it’s a lovely place, it doesn’t seem to be a place where the Marines would have much presence. Plus, while Robin was seen in the town, it didn’t seem as if anyone recognized her, much less tied her to Luffy's crew.

Then, we go to Skypeia. No marines there. From there, it’s Longring Longland and the Davy Back fight. Right after the fight ends, there’s Aokiji, waiting for them. And here’s the puzzler.

Aokiji says he’s only there to confirm the whereabouts of Nico Robin after the Arabasta incident. What led him to believe that she’d be with the Straw Hats? She was their enemy, her last known location was buried under tons of rubble.

What gives? Any ideas? Any stuff I might have missed in the manga?
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Luffy, Crocodile and Cobra could also be put at the scene of the rubble.
They could have questioned Croc, Cobra, and then decided to investigate about Luffy.
Aokiji probably figured Robin had latched on to another group, as seems to be her thing according to him.

Croc's group: Eliminated BECAUSE of her. Done and done.
Cobra's group: Royal family of Alabasta? Doubtful.
Luffy's group: Noobies but highly skilled pirates. Most likely.

So Aokiji probably tracked them down to see if his guess was correct. And sure enough, ta-da!

And your seeing the whole situation from the strawhats point of view.
You need to see it from the marines.
Good guys? Bad guys?
They're both on the same page to Aokiji. Pirates and Terrorists. Tomatoes and Peppers.

wintergt

I think it's simpler than that.. the marines no doubt have spies everywhere. Even if they didn't have much of a presence on Jaya there is no doubt in my mind that they have plenty of spies there that report back to them what goes around there.

joekido the Second

Myby Smoker told Aokiji after he ingorrate one of the BW member and Aokiji been tracking her down.

Ranier

Relying totally on a rather faulty memory, I seem to recall Aokiji saying that there's a 'stupid message from that Smoker" after he let Luffy live. If this is true, then it means Aokiji and Smoker are in speaking terms, and recently they have been exchanging information.

So, yeah. The Nico Robin pointer may come from Smoker-san.

Originally posted by joekido the Second@Jul 25 2005, 03:34 PM
Myby Smoker told Aokiji after he ingorrate one of the BW member and Aokiji been tracking her down.
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…highly flawed. How would a BW member even know Robin would join the Stawhats? The BW were disbanded after Croc was defeated, and it was a highly secretive organization. Try using your head.

wolfwood

Originally posted by jackvance@Jul 25 2005, 08:31 PM
I think it's simpler than that.. the marines no doubt have spies everywhere. Even if they didn't have much of a presence on Jaya there is no doubt in my mind that they have plenty of spies there that report back to them what goes around there.
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amen brother,
thats exactly what i think has happend the marine information service should be the best in the world and should have spies every where or snitches and such who inform them and has simply received information that the 79.000.000 pirate nico robin have been seen with the strawhats and there for sent someone to confirm this info.

Shasti

This might be it, but I'm still not buying it totally. From what I remember, Smoker knew nothing about Baroque Works. Now, as he was supposed to be tending to his posting in Logue Town, perhaps his superiors didn't feel it necessary to keep him informed. However, as a criminal organization, you'd think the Marines would want to stop as many from getting to the Grand Line as they could, a task that Smoker would be handling. Hard to do that when you've never even heard of them.

Plus, he was surprised to see Robin in Rainbase. He was very disturbed about it. I'm thinking that once he got free, he reported her presence to Marine HQ. Plus, he'd just heard Crocodile's plans for Arabasta, another piece of info that seemed to be news to him.

This kind of leads me to be less than impressed with the Marines' intelligence gathering. I mean, Baroque Works wasn't all that hard to spot, although the "BW" hats, tattoos, mailboxes, t-shirts, etc. seemed to be invisible to everyone else.

Still, I guess it's possible that they have a spy on Jaya. After all, it seems to be a pretty notorious pirate hangout. A convenient place to have a spy.

wintergt

as a criminal organization

Weren't they bounty hunters, ie not a criminal organisation?

Zephos

I think that the groups on Whiskey Peak were the only bounty Hunters.

I mean Mr.1 had a bounty! How could he be a Bounty hunter?

wolfwood

mr.1 aka daz bonnez was an assasin from one of the blues,

but back on topic they still they havent hidden the fact that robin is staying with them so even a semi good intellegence gathering unit could easily notice it.

but still i stand firm in the belife that the marine intellegence is the best information gathering unit cause.

wintergt

Ok but on the surface they were an organisation of bounty hunters. I remember that Zoro was approached by them when he was still an alleged pirate hunter to join up. So that's probably how the WG/the marines knew them. Mr.1 was a big secret for pretty much everyone, even Vivi hadn't seen him before and she was a numbered agent already.

Shasti

Kind of what I mean. Arabasta is in a state of civil war, and the Marines hadn't noticed anything odd about it. Large quantities of a banned substance (dance powder) are discovered in a country suffering from drought. Crocodile there, making himself a big hero….

Anything wrong with this picture?

And BW was much much more than a bounty hunting organization. It was flat-out identified as a criminal organization by Igaram and Vivi, whose stated aim was the establishment of an "Ideal Nation." Now, how many ways can you establish a new nation? Uh, take over an existing one? Works for me.

So. We have a "secret" organization, that uses code names and has a shadowy, unknown boss, that is working toward this "Ideal Nation." Sounds like revolutionary stuff to me, and I'd think the World Government would be pretty interested in knowing about it.

Sheesh, the damn pampered princess found out about Baroque Works, why not the Marines? It's one of their jobs, after all.

Feh, whatever.

wolfwood

ah come on thats just cause you knew exactly what was going on otherwise it wouldnt seem that weird to me atleast.

they would have no idea of what kinda organization it was or its goal,
you would have to infiltrate it inorder to learn it like vivi and igram did,

and to them it just was a bounty hunter organisation that wasnt worhty investigating.

wintergt

Originally posted by Shasti@Jul 25 2005, 08:12 PM
**Kind of what I mean. Arabasta is in a state of civil war, and the Marines hadn't noticed anything odd about it. Large quantities of a banned substance (dance powder) are discovered in a country suffering from drought. Crocodile there, making himself a big hero….

Anything wrong with this picture?**

These are internal affairs of the kingdom itself, not really marine bussiness. And Crocodile is a shichibukai, so him taking down local hoodlum pirates is exactly what his job description entails..

Ivotas

Well as it has been pointed out already it was probably Smoker who told the WG about Nico Robin. Just because we didn't hear him saying that it doesn't mean that he couldn't have said it in his report.

Remember when he talked to the guy on the Den Den Mushi? He said something like "I told you that it was the Strawhat Pirates that defeated Crocodile!" but we never hear him saying that in the first place. Doesn't mean that he didn't do it though.

And I'm sure that he mentioned Nico Robin in his report I mean after all, she was the partner of a Shichibukai. Other than that, the way how he was worried to see her together with Crocodile I'm sure that he didn't just ignore her in his report. He knew how dangerous Robin is. Smoker may have his own way of doing things, but it doesn't meant that he should hold back information on such a dangerous wanted criminal as Nico Robin. He cares for justice after all. ;)

da_pingunator

from my opinion i thought aokiji purely just made an assumption that nico robin would b with luffy's crew. if i remember correctly aokiji sez she is pure danger and that is y at the age of 8 she got a bounty on her and as a child, she backstabbed and ranaway and her next "hideout" is luffy's crew after being with the 2 faced company baroque works. i think aokiji's assumption was that after knowing that barloque works will collapse, the next closest group would be luffy's crew as nico robin needs to be associated with people or under an association to live. aokiji's proof is that evry group nico robin has been part of has collapsed other than her. this is how i have understood it as…
(sorry may be a little bit mixed up altho im trying my best!)

Shasti

Okay, okay. Iâ€m willing to accept that the Marines have a spy on Jaya reporting which pirates are spotted there. I guess the rest of my reluctance has to do with the fact that Iâ€ve always thought â€œmilitary intelligenceâ€? to be an oxymoron.

Anyhoo, hereâ€s another one that bugged me (no pun intended). Buggy getting Luffy on the execution platform in Loguetown. As near as I can tell, the only thing holding Luffy down was a stock, fitted over his hands and neck. His legs were free. Now, why couldnâ€t he just whip a foot over and slam it in Buggyâ€s back? Even without much leverage, heâ€d be able to do at least that much.

What is it about Buggy that he can manage what nobody else can? Trapping Luffy?

Yoska

…What is it about Buggy that he can manage what nobody else can? Trapping Luffy?

Well, the easy explanation: Oda got lazy and didn't bother it about too much. The story still works as well anyway.

Others can come up with better excuses though also too lazy. B)

Zephos

The level of momentum he'd be able to move his feet at?

He could tap Buggy's knee pits, maybe, at the most. He couldn't hit him hard.

wintergt

Yeah I noticed this one too.. there is stuff more like this, like Luffy getting stuck in w7 (where did his superhuman strength go to all of a sudden?) but I guess we have to take this as part of the story.

Polygon

Thinking about the Louge town incedent, luffy wouldn't really get the idea of using

his legs to hit buggy even if he could. :D

Zephos

Yes, Luffy didn't even realise being in the stockhold meant he was the one being executed until Buggy told him.

changsho

Hmm, I can only say that it's a plot device to show Luffy's lack of fear in the face of death, and his "destiny".

Luffy, despite being the funny idiot, is a genius in fighting. Look at all the moves he came up with. But during the execution, well, Oda dumbed him down a bit so the story works. I can't complain…

Ivotas

Originally posted by jackvance@Jul 26 2005, 10:27 PM
Yeah I noticed this one too.. there is stuff more like this, like Luffy getting stuck in w7 (where did his superhuman strength go to all of a sudden?) but I guess we have to take this as part of the story.
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Erm, actually the chapter where he got out of that "trap" explained the reasoning why he had power to escape and why he didn't have it before.

MR.Prince-Sanji

I think Aokiji didn't really know that Robin is with the Straw Hat, because he only looked at Luffy's bounty sheet when he was on his bicycle. He didn't said anything about Robin being with him. I think it's just an accident that he met Robin as well.

Phlemingo

Nah.. he specifically said that he was there to confirm the whereabouts of Nico Robin.

gamabunta

Maybe Blackbeard told the World Government as a way to get into the Shichibukai.

Zephos

Originally posted by gamabunta@Jul 27 2005, 09:30 AM
Maybe Blackbeard told the World Government as a way to get into the Shichibukai.
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Maybe….but thats not exactly flattering for Blackbeard.

Still, he did see her with them before the knock-up stream hit.

Shasti

Still, he did see her with them before the knock-up stream hit.

Yeah, but Blackbeard didn't go see the WG, Lafitte did. And since they did mention something about having to leave Lafitte to go after Luffy, I must assume that Blackbeard and Lafitte aren't in close communication right now.

And I still don't understand how Buggy got that close to killing Luffy. Leverage, schmeverage, if he could corkscrew up his legs, grab Krieg's head and whip him over into Baratie, all while in midair, I rather think he'd be capable of whipping a leg over and taking out Cabaji or Buggy.

Makes me wonder, you know. Buggy and Alvida, two of the earliest villains that Luffy fought, are still free, and chasing Luffy. Oda's keeping them in the main story, if only barely. Why? Will they be important toward the end of the series? Hmmm….

Zephos

Yeah, but Blackbeard didn't go see the WG, Lafitte did. And since they did mention something about having to leave Lafitte to go after Luffy, I must assume that Blackbeard and Lafitte aren't in close communication right now.

How do you know what Blackbeards been up to recently?
He could have went to Marajorah himself?

And I still don't understand how Buggy got that close to killing Luffy. Leverage, schmeverage, if he could corkscrew up his legs, grab Krieg's head and whip him over into Baratie, all while in midair, I rather think he'd be capable of whipping a leg over and taking out Cabaji or Buggy.

He seemed more caught up in trying to squeeze out of the stockhold. Remember ,hes stupid.

Ubiq

Well, as to how Aokiji came to find out that Robin was with the Straw Hats, my guess would be that it has something to do with the large intelligence agency that has blackmailed her into working for them.

That or it could be something so simple as somebody just recognized Robin while she was walking around Jaya and reported her presence to the authorities. Somebody would have to able to make the connection between the Straw Hats arriving, Robin appearing in town, the Straw Hats leaving, and Robin not appearing again.

As for why he came to confirm she was with them, that was likely as a result of Spandam's request for authority to issue a Buster Call against the Straw Hats. Aokiji obviously doesn't trust Spandam (at the very least, he needs to have proof that what Spandam is telling him is true), which is probably why he decided to go ahead and kill them all. Better that he should kill Nico Robin now and know that she's dead than let Cipher Pol have her and then have to worry about why they want her so bad. If nothing else, he would guarantee that she was in Marine custody rather than that of what is essentially a rival organization.

I doubt that he wants Spandam to succeed in his plan to acquire Pluton. A proud organization as the Marines would probably take the idea of resurrecting the Ancient Weapons for the specific purpose of defeating piracy as a deliberate slap to the face. It's a big statement that the Government doesn't think that the Marines are capable of doing their job.

Luffy's decision to sacrifice himself is what changed that; Aokiji may have decided that, for better or worse, Luffy deserved to see for himself what kind of person Nico Robin was and that the crew deserved to spend just a little more time together.

Pandaman

Aokiji probably doesn't want to see Robin captured, he just wants to make sure she doesn't hurt or decieve anymore people and maybe when he saw Robin with the SH's he knew that she wouldn't hurt them so he decided to let them go.

Polygon

And I still don't understand how Buggy got that close to killing Luffy. Leverage, schmeverage, if he could corkscrew up his legs, grab Krieg's head and whip him over into Baratie, all while in midair, I rather think he'd be capable of whipping a leg over and taking out Cabaji or Buggy.

What he did with krieg was actually easier then what your suggesting. When in

mid-air you use your hands as momentum to kick like that :D

Shasti

Moomph. :p

Still don't buy it. Buggy is a chump; no reason why he should have been able to get so close to killing Luffy. It almost looked like Luffy wasn't even trying very hard to escape.

Meh.

Anyway, got another one. Little Garden. One year for the log pose to set. Lots of skeletons of people who didn't survive the wait…

Not one of them had a log pose on them? I mean, if they died waiting for it to set, why aren't there a bunch of old log poses sitting around? Do the dinosaurs find them particularly tasty?

Oh, and lately, I've been seeing the "ancient weapons" as being based on nuclear weapons. Weapons that were used in the past, but are far too destructive to warrant being used. Too powerful, nobody should even consider using them...and the government wants one so it can end the age of the pirates. Hmmm...Japan and WW2?

wintergt

@Shasti:

Anyway, got another one. Little Garden. One year for the log pose to set. Lots of skeletons of people who didn't survive the wait…

Not one of them had a log pose on them? I mean, if they died waiting for it to set, why aren't there a bunch of old log poses sitting around? Do the dinosaurs find them particularly tasty?

They were probably taken by travelers who did get away. It makes sense if you think about it.

A thing that kinda bugged me was with the knock-up stream. They HAD to get a southbird to know their way, but then they encountered the knock-up stream with the island still in plain view. Hm?

Yoska

@jackvance:

A thing that kinda bugged me was with the knock-up stream. They HAD to get a southbird to know their way, but then they encountered the knock-up stream with the island still in plain view. Hm?

More importantly, how a knock-up stream got under an island? :rolleyes: (Something isn't just right with the new smiles, guess I'll have to get used to them)

Hey sorry if i just brought this up and someone already has but did they not follow the log pose to longring island and wouldn't the marines already know where a log pose go after leaving alabasta.

wintergt

@Yoska:

More importantly, how a knock-up stream got under an island? :rolleyes: (Something isn't just right with the new smiles, guess I'll have to get used to them)

Yeah…

Here are some more things I instantly noted:

The fact that Luffy canâ€t be hit by bullets but can be cut by sharp objects is kinda fishy. What makes a sharp object cut is the size of the point of impact. A hammer will smack you away with its large impact-zone, while a sword will cut you. The sharper the sword, the smaller the point of impact, and the better it cuts. Now, the shape of a bullet is pretty much like a spearhead, which means itâ€ll pierce you just as if you were hit by a knife â€“ only ten times worse because of the greater speed. This means that if Luffy can be cut by sharp objects, he sure as hell should get pierced by bullets.

Also, Eneruâ€s lightning had no effect on Luffy because his body is made of rubber. Rubber is an isolator, which means it doesnâ€t conduct electricity. This is actually a simplification. Isolators only isolate up to a certain point. Hit them with enough current to knock the electrons loose and they conduct. Be sure that 100 million volts will make any isolator conduct electricity. In other words, Eneru should have fried Luffy.

etc :)

i think that people are forgot three things. 1) robin had been stab by sir croc 2) both robin and bon clay(mr.2) disappeared at the sametime. 3) they both appeared on luffy's ship before the strawhats.

i think Mr. 2 is prety much a good guy and he would helped robin with both the stab wound and getting onbroad the merry go. he would have also known she stayed with the strawhats

Ubiq

@jackvance:

This means that if Luffy can be cut by sharp objects, he sure as hell should get pierced by bullets.

Which would be a problem, if people used bullets in the world of One Piece, which they don't. They use musket balls, which rely on momentum for penetration rather than shape and, as a result, can be rebounded by Luffy.

A rifle cartridge would cause him problems, but not a musket ball.

wintergt

Even musket balls "cut" harder than a knife due to their speed.

Bounty1Berry

@jackvance:

Yeah…

Here are some more things I instantly noted:

The fact that Luffy canâ€t be hit by bullets but can be cut by sharp objects is kinda fishy. What makes a sharp object cut is the size of the point of impact. A hammer will smack you away with its large impact-zone, while a sword will cut you. The sharper the sword, the smaller the point of impact, and the better it cuts. Now, the shape of a bullet is pretty much like a spearhead, which means itâ€ll pierce you just as if you were hit by a knife â€“ only ten times worse because of the greater speed. This means that if Luffy can be cut by sharp objects, he sure as hell should get pierced by bullets.

Also, Eneruâ€s lightning had no effect on Luffy because his body is made of rubber. Rubber is an isolator, which means it doesnâ€t conduct electricity. This is actually a simplification. Isolators only isolate up to a certain point. Hit them with enough current to knock the electrons loose and they conduct. Be sure that 100 million volts will make any isolator conduct electricity. In other words, Eneru should have fried Luffy.

etc :)

Weren't a lot of early bullets simple balls? This may not have given the excellent point of impact of a modern, bullet-shaped bullet.

As for frying Luffy (aside from the fact I endorse it), it might also be a matter of grounding. It might actually end up, for example, that it's a lower resistance to pass through Luffy's (possibly damp or sweaty) clothes and socks to get to his shoes and ground, than to pass through his body to get to his shoes.

@jackvance:

Yeah…

Here are some more things I instantly noted:

The fact that Luffy canâ€t be hit by bullets but can be cut by sharp objects is kinda fishy. What makes a sharp object cut is the size of the point of impact. A hammer will smack you away with its large impact-zone, while a sword will cut you. The sharper the sword, the smaller the point of impact, and the better it cuts. Now, the shape of a bullet is pretty much like a spearhead, which means itâ€ll pierce you just as if you were hit by a knife â€“ only ten times worse because of the greater speed. This means that if Luffy can be cut by sharp objects, he sure as hell should get pierced by bullets.

Also, Eneruâ€s lightning had no effect on Luffy because his body is made of rubber. Rubber is an isolator, which means it doesnâ€t conduct electricity. This is actually a simplification. Isolators only isolate up to a certain point. Hit them with enough current to knock the electrons loose and they conduct. Be sure that 100 million volts will make any isolator conduct electricity. In other words, Eneru should have fried Luffy.

etc :)

Totally agree with you. And what's more, how can a human survive from 10 Million Volts? - Eneru releases 10 Million Volts of Lightning at his opponents-Gan Fall.

At Alabasta, how can Bill survive after bringing up the ultimate bom? And how Bellamy survived from Luffy's punch? His face got those finger marks and i suppose the impact made by Luffy had smashed his skull and his brain… :rolleyes: