Coby had better growth thanks to a better teacher, though.
He also awakened his Haki earlier, which might count for something.
Coby had better growth thanks to a better teacher, though.
He also awakened his Haki earlier, which might count for something.
There is absolutely no evidence to support this claim. There is huge probability that Coby is indeed stronger than Tashigi, but without any evidence you can't say it's definite. This remains pure speculation.
@wolfwoof:
Their shown skill set is pretty similar ( use of haki and some of the six forms). But Tash has far more experience in her speciality ( swordsmanship), she was already an accomplished swordsman back when Coby was getting whacked in the face with a bamboo sword.
So from that i'd probably conclude that Tashagi should be a better fighter atm
It is speculation but going according to the growth that each individual have shown so far, we can all agree (at least I) that Coby has to be stronger than Tashigi, Coby was already using Soru since Water seven meaning that he was already learning those techniques before the time skip and he awaken his Observation Haki at the war while Tashigi didn't display any Rokushiki techniques nor haki prior Punk Hazard and their trainers make a huge difference as well, since Tashigi has always been shown training with soldier while Coby is being trained by Bogart and Garp
- We may see Coby after Dressrosa and he will be strong enough to handle 200M pirates, I don't see him taking on 300M just yet and he's haki has to be average right now, nothing crazy
-I don't think does Admiral will have absolute justice as their motto
- He will get stronger but he will be near Luffy's level, I always said it the Luffy in Marine Ford was stronger than the Smoker at Marine Ford, the only problem was that Luffy didn't have haki back then
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It was but making Coby that strong right now will be insane that's why I placed him as an average user when it comes to haki right now
I agree with pretty much everything you said.
just that Smoker seems so unprepared for the NW. Besides him turning down positions idk why people compare him to Garp.
It is speculation but going according to the growth that each individual have shown so far, we can all agree (at least I) that Coby has to be stronger than Tashigi, Coby was already using Soru since Water seven meaning that he was already learning those techniques before the time skip and he awaken his Observation Haki at the war while Tashigi didn't display any Rokushiki techniques nor haki prior Punk Hazard and their trainers make a huge difference as well, since Tashigi has always been shown training with soldier while Coby is being trained by Bogart and Garp
having Rokushiki and haki doesn't automatically mean that one individual is stronger than other in same way as having Devil Fruit doesn't mean person, who has it's powers is stronger, than the one without them.
We can't say how much Tashigi have grown from any given point, to any other point, as she always taken challenges waaay over her head. There is no reliable way to compare their growth so far.
Coby being stronger than Tashigi, while likely, remains in department of speculations.
One thing remains clear however. That both Coby and Tash get sodomized by Law and Monet
I agree with pretty much everything you said.
just that Smoker seems so unprepared for the NW. Besides him turning down positions idk why people compare him to Garp.
Because he is crazy about arresting who will later become the pirate king.
having Rokushiki and haki doesn't automatically mean that one individual is stronger than other in same way as having Devil Fruit doesn't mean person, who has it's powers is stronger, than the one without them.
We can't say how much Tashigi have grown from any given point, to any other point, as she always taken challenges waaay over her head. There is no reliable way to compare their growth so far.
Coby being stronger than Tashigi, while likely, remains in department of speculations.
I don't know how you define strength but how I define it having Rokushiki and haki is a big + when it comes to strength, when we have two people who doesn't have Devil Fruit power, we can only compare them by their growth, what they have shown so far and when they show it Which gives you a pretty good understanding on how far they should be from time A to time B while Devil fruit are always tricky and doesn't really depend on strength but in how the user handles his Devil Fruit and how cautious the fighter is when fighting one.
Tashigi has taken challenges that she can not win and we haven't seen Coby fight somebody else beside Luffy but what he showed in both fight was something that Tashigi didn't show till Punk Hawzard and can guarantee us that when it comes to those techniques he is above her unless
This is all speculations
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I agree with pretty much everything you said.
just that Smoker seems so unprepared for the NW. Besides him turning down positions idk why people compare him to Garp.
Luffy was Smoker drive back in Paradise after Luffy disappeared Smoker just became a normal marine who track down bad guys but not this crazy dude who'll do everything in his power to capture the smiling guy but the next time we see him, he'll definitely be strong and moreover when he witnessed Luffy's strength
Because he is crazy about arresting who will later become the pirate king.
I'd say he's a little too obssesive with the SH's. It sounds weird to say because it's Smoker. But I think it's safe to say he's out of Luffy's league at this point.
@wolfwoof:
One thing remains clear however. That both Coby and Tash get sodomized by Law and Monet
Well they both seems to enjoy getting fodderize by their opponent.
Which makes me wonder if Coby will manage to not get one-shot by Luffy once again.
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Yeah Caribou has a 210M but the guys that have 300M are something else, just look at Killer he has a 200M, Hawkins 320M, do you think that Coby has what it takes to take down those guys? That gap between 200M and 300M seems small in numbers but that's a huge gap when it comes to strength also we can't really said since Killer has to be a monster and he only have 200M and Zoro will most likely be around 230M after Dressrosa.
Coby is definitely stronger than Tashigi but I just don't see Oda making Coby super strong right now, he's just a captain, he still have to go through a lot in order to become an admiral.
Captain>Commodore>rear admiral>vice admiral>admiral
Crew members' bounties are lower than captain's bounty. This explain the bounty of Killer. Lately impressive bounty means 400M for captain 350M at least. Hawkins is indeed quite low on that aspect. But he is like Mr 2 on level 3(who could not handle bluegiries).
Crew members' bounties are lower than captain's bounty. This explain the bounty of Killer. Lately impressive bounty means 400M for captain 350M at least. Hawkins is indeed quite low on that aspect. But he is like Mr 2 on level 3(who could not handle bluegiries).
I know that but I was just making a comparison on how we can not judge who can take down who just because of their bounties
I don't know how you define strength but how I define it having Rokushiki and haki is a big + when it comes to strength, when we have two people who doesn't have Devil Fruit power, we can only compare them by their growth, what they have shown so far and when they show it Which gives you a pretty good understanding on how far they should be from time A to time B while Devil fruit are always tricky and doesn't really depend on strength but in how the user handles his Devil Fruit and how cautious the fighter is when fighting one.
Tashigi has taken challenges that she can not win and we haven't seen Coby fight somebody else beside Luffy but what he showed in both fight was something that Tashigi didn't show till Punk Hawzard and can guarantee us that when it comes to those techniques he is above her unless
This is all speculations
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Luffy was Smoker drive back in Paradise after Luffy disappeared Smoker just became a normal marine who track down bad guys but not this crazy dude who'll do everything in his power to capture the smiling guy but the next time we see him, he'll definitely be strong and moreover when he witnessed Luffy's strength
people without haki or Rokushiki can still handle haki and Rokushiki users as we've seen during Skypia and Enies Lobby. The fact that somebody posses certain skill doesn't automatically mean they are stronger from individual, who does not posses this skill.
I don't think we can take development, that hasn't been shown yet, for granted. Would you be able to predict Coby having Rokushiki basing solely on his first appearance?
people without haki or Rokushiki can still handle haki and Rokushiki users as we've seen during Skypia and Enies Lobby. The fact that somebody posses certain skill doesn't automatically mean they are stronger from individual, who does not posses this skill.
I don't think we can take development, that hasn't been shown yet, for granted. Would you be able to predict Coby having Rokushiki basing solely on his first appearance?
True that, but we're comparing two character with the same line of skills, If we put it down by swordsmanship Tashigi is stronger than Coby but when we're talking about their growth and what they showed is clear who is above who in that regard and no, I can't unless I see a user use a technique like Soru that is one of 6 and If this user is a marine (Being a Marine makes it easy for a person to predict it since Rokushiki is like their watermark), which will automatically tell you that this character might be able to use the other 5 techniques.
Do you think Tashigi's growth is greater than Coby's?
Observation haki is a limited form of precognition. You actually know what people will do before they do it, so it actually becomes possible to 'react' to things happening at the speed of light.
Yes, but Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Golden Rifle wasn't moving at the speed of light and it still hit Enel who has the best Observation Haki shown in the series.
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True that, but we're comparing two character with the same line of skills, If we put it down by swordsmanship Tashigi is stronger than Coby but when we're talking about their growth and what they showed is clear who is above who in that regard and no, I can't unless I see a user use a technique like Soru that is one of 6 and If this user is a marine (Being a Marine makes it easy for a person to predict it since Rokushiki is like their watermark), which will automatically tell you that this character might be able to use the other 5 techniques.
Do you think Tashigi's growth is greater than Coby's?
You guys do know Coby appeared in Movie Z and he punched a huge golden ball into pieces.
@God:
Yes, but Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Golden Rifle wasn't moving at the speed of light and it still hit Enel who has the best Observation Haki shown in the series.
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You guys do know Coby appeared in Movie Z and he punched a huge golden ball into pieces.
That wasn't Film Z. That was episode of Luffy. Hand Island, I think.
In FIlm Z, Coby did appear but he was just talking to Garp.
That wasn't Film Z. That was episode of Luffy. Hand Island, I think.
In FIlm Z, Coby did appear but he was just talking to Garp.
I feel really stupid right now.
I'd say he's a little too obssesive with the SH's. It sounds weird to say because it's Smoker. But I think it's safe to say he's out of Luffy's league at this point.
He will just happen to be at the right level next time we see him.
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True that, but we're comparing two character with the same line of skills, If we put it down by swordsmanship Tashigi is stronger than Coby but when we're talking about their growth and what they showed is clear who is above who in that regard and no, I can't unless I see a user use a technique like Soru that is one of 6 and If this user is a marine (Being a Marine makes it easy for a person to predict it since Rokushiki is like their watermark), which will automatically tell you that this character might be able to use the other 5 techniques.
Do you think Tashigi's growth is greater than Coby's?
Just remember Kaku vs Zoro and put Coby and Tashigi at their place.
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I know that but I was just making a comparison on how we can not judge who can take down who just because of their bounties
I was talking about Coby making a super comeback by beating some guy 300M dude. Being an unnamed guy makes you weaker in one piece and since the caribou bros 200M have become not so impressive. So Coby surely can beat some unnamed 300M just like blueguilies can beat unnamed level 4 criminals.
For Coby haki he has been trained by Garp and had already awaken it. Smoker manage to go as far as turning black even through he knew jackshit and was working his ass in the NW same for Tashigi. So with serious training from Garp himself and his monstrous growth rate insane level of observation is fair game in that NW filled with hax abilities..
I was talking about Coby making a super comeback by beating some guy 300M dude. Being an unnamed guy makes you weaker in one piece and since the caribou bros 200M have become not so impressive. So Coby surely can beat some unnamed 300M just like blueguilies can beat unnamed level 4 criminals.
For Coby haki he has been trained by Garp and had already awaken it. Smoker manage to go as far as turning black even through he knew jackshit and was working his ass in the NW same for Tashigi. So with serious training from Garp himself and his monstrous growth rate insane level of observation is fair game in that NW filled with hax abilities..
That I can see it happening, some no-name pirate but yet with a high bounty and I just can't picture him being this monster in Observation Haki just yet, knowing that he still have too much ground to cover before accomplishing his dream
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Just remember Kaku vs Zoro and put Coby and Tashigi at their place.
Kaku = Coby and Zoro = Tashigi?
Kaku = Coby and Zoro = Tashigi?
Yes. We just know know his skillset not the effectiveness. Getting one-punch by Luffy twice don't really means anything when comparing her to Tashigi.
Shouldn't learning curve be enough evidence? Coby used Soru at water 7 as a Chief petty Officer, something we didn't see from Tashigi until after TS as a Captain.
Yes. We just know know his skill set not the effectiveness. Getting one-punch by Luffy twice don't really means anything when comparing her to Tashigi.
yeah but like I said everything is just speculation and I'm just basing it in what I saw him do before the two years time skip and how far he should be by now in that regard, which like I said before Garp/Coby and no-names Marines/Tashigi, that's a huge difference right there
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Shouldn't learning curve be enough evidence? Coby used Soru at water 7 as a Chief petty Officer, something we didn't see from Tashigi until after TS as a Captain.
Curve what's that?
Curve what's that?
learning curve= growth rate I think. He is comparing the level they had at each point.
learning curve= growth rate I think. He is comparing the level they had at each point.
According to google that's what it means, didn't know that one, so is always good to learn something new
@God:
Yes, but Luffy's Gomu Gomu no Golden Rifle wasn't moving at the speed of light and it still hit Enel who has the best Observation Haki shown in the series.
Yeah but as Luffy showed in that same fight with Enel, the effectiveness of mantra/CoO in battle is limited to how skilled a fighter you are. Luffy is physically fast enough to dodge Pacifista beams, Enel wasn't fast enough to dodge the golden rifle.
Yeah but as Luffy showed in that same fight with Enel, the effectiveness of mantra/CoO in battle is limited to how skilled a fighter you are. Luffy is physically fast enough to dodge Pacifista beams, Enel wasn't fast enough to dodge the golden rifle.
Can't enel move at the speed of electricity though?
Can't enel move at the speed of electricity though?
Sorry I worded that wrong, I meant physically able to dodge the golden rifle. Like in the middle of the fight when Luffy hits him with a regular Gomu Gomu no Rifle because Enel has been temporarily incapacitated by Luffy's attacks. He could see the attack coming, but still wasn't able to dodge it, making mantra/CoO effectiveness in battle ultimately dependant on physical ability.
True that, but we're comparing two character with the same line of skills, If we put it down by swordsmanship Tashigi is stronger than Coby but when we're talking about their growth and what they showed is clear who is above who in that regard and no, I can't unless I see a user use a technique like Soru that is one of 6 and If this user is a marine (Being a Marine makes it easy for a person to predict it since Rokushiki is like their watermark), which will automatically tell you that this character might be able to use the other 5 techniques.
Do you think Tashigi's growth is greater than Coby's?
What same line of skills?
Assumption that person using one Rokushiki skill automatically means that this person can use 5 other Rokushiki techniques would be not only baseless, but contradictory to what we know. Nero - new CP9 member wasn't able to use all six Rokushiki skills, if I'm not mistaken, he only mastered four. From what we've been informed it takes years to master all.
Rokushiki is introduced as CP9 stuff, and we were never informed of a Marine mastering all of them.
There is nothing that gives us way to measure growth of Tashigi, so we can't reasonably compare Tashigis growth to Coby.
He will just happen to be at the right level next time we see him
Hopefully. I want to see more of him. Maybe he'll bring out something new when we see him next.
What same line of skills?
Assumption that person using one Rokushiki skill automatically means that this person can use 5 other Rokushiki techniques would be not only baseless, but contradictory to what we know. Nero - new CP9 member wasn't able to use all six Rokushiki skills, if I'm not mistaken, he only mastered four. From what we've been informed it takes years to master all.
Rokushiki is introduced as CP9 stuff, and we were never informed of a Marine mastering all of them.
There is nothing that gives us way to measure growth of Tashigi, so we can't reasonably compare Tashigis growth to Coby.
I'm going to quote my self here
Soru is one of 6 and If this user is a marine (Being a Marine makes it easy for a person to predict it since Rokushiki is like their watermark), which will automatically tell you that this character might be able to use the other 5 techniques.
Now we have seen Vice Admirals and Captains use the Rokushiki techniques left and right, is clear that the Marines teach those techniques to their fighter (Same line of skills), Nero have mastered 4 of the 6, whose to say that he wasn't training the other twos? and I agree Oda hasn't make a Marine say "I've mastered all Rokushiki techniques" but those he needs to say it when he have high levels Marines using those techniques like nothing and it gives you the assumption that the might be able to use the others too.
Tashigi has been shown 4 times on the story and Coby has been shown 3, Coby showed in 2 what Tashigii showed in 4 and not to mention that Tashigi has been a Marine way longer than Coby.
I'm going to quote my self here
Soru is one of 6 and If this user is a marine (Being a Marine makes it easy for a person to predict it since Rokushiki is like their watermark), which will automatically tell you that this character might be able to use the other 5 techniques.
Now we have seen Vice Admirals and Captains use the Rokushiki techniques left and right, is clear that the Marines teach those techniques to their fighter (Same line of skills), Nero have mastered 4 of the 6, whose to say that he wasn't training the other twos? and I agree Oda hasn't make a Marine say "I've mastered all Rokushiki techniques" but those he needs to say it when he have high levels Marines using those techniques like nothing and it gives you the assumption that the might be able to use the others too.
Tashigi has been shown 4 times on the story and Coby has been shown 3, Coby showed in 2 what Tashigii showed in 4 and not to mention that Tashigi has been a Marine way longer than Coby.
Marines in the Manga only have been shown using Soru, Geppo and Shigan. That's half. I don't think it justifies claim that "high ranking marines are using it left and right" (and only one who used all 3 was Vergo). Coby and Tashigi have been only Marines save VA's using any of those at all.
It's possible that only HQ teaches how to use Haki, as only HQ Marines and Marines on rank that required Training in HQ have been using those skills.
It's possible that Tashigi had never access prior time skip to any of Rokushiki techniques, as she has't been trained in HQ (there is no indication, that she even been there before).
The fact, that she didn't posses doesn't mean, that she was weaker or less talented. Probably she simply have been using one training regime instead of the other. There really is no way to evaluate anything basing on this.
The way Coby and Tashigi acquired skill is vastly different. From what we've seen Coby have been mostly trained by fine masters, while Tashigi was gaining experience by doing her work, arresting criminals, fighting pirates. They are different individuals, they develop in different pace, they aim for different sets of skills. You can arbitrary say that one is stronger than the other.
I wonder why I argue, when you've already agreed with me.
Judging by narrative so far Coby indeed is likely to be stronger, but it's premature to give it as definite statement.
Didn't a VA use the iron lump technique at some point?
@wolfwoof:
Didn't a VA use the iron lump technique at some point?
Iron lump? Are you talking about tekkai?
@Red:
Iron lump? Are you talking about tekkai?
Ah it was supposed to be iron mass. Sorry about the confusion there
But yes i was refering to that
Marines in the Manga only have been shown using Soru, Geppo and Shigan. That's half. I don't think it justifies claim that "high ranking marines are using it left and right" (and only one who used all 3 was Vergo).
And that's why I said whose to say that they don't also posses the other techniques, Vergo is the first Vice Admiral to be shown for more than 3 pages that's to say
It's possible that only HQ teaches how to use Haki, as only HQ Marines and Marines on rank that required Training in HQ have been using those skills.
It's possible that Tashigi had never access prior time skip to any of Rokushiki techniques, as she has't been trained in HQ (there is no indication, that she even been there before).
The fact, that she didn't posses doesn't mean, that she was weaker or less talented. Probably she simply have been using one training regime instead of the other. There really is no way to evaluate anything basing on this.The way Coby and Tashigi acquired skill is vastly different. From what we've seen Coby have been mostly trained by fine masters, while Tashigi was gaining experience by doing her work, arresting criminals, fighting pirates. They are different individuals, they develop in different pace, they aim for different sets of skills. You can arbitrary say that one is stronger than the other.
I wonder why I argue, when you've already agreed with me.
And you just admitted… Coby have had more training than her, better teachers = greater growth, the only thing I see Tashigi having over Coby is experience and I'm not even adding where both character stand
Judging by narrative so far Coby indeed is likely to be stronger
This line should end the discussion
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@wolfwoof:
Ah it was supposed to be iron mass. Sorry about the confusion there
But yes i was refering to that
We saw one at the war but I think that it was filler (Not sure)
@wolfwoof:
Didn't a VA use the iron lump technique at some point?
I'm sure they just use haki to make a technique that look like the 6 style. That way they can use Shigan and Tekkai thanks to the hardening. But for the Geppou I think they learn it.
I'm sure they just use haki to make a technique that look like the 6 style. That way they can use Shigan and Tekkai thanks to the hardening. But for the Geppou I think they learn it.
[hide]![](http://www.onepiecebay.net/manga/mangas/One Piece/567 - Marineford Marine Headquarters, Oris Plaza/One_Piece-v58-089.png)[/hide]
And you just admitted… Coby have had more training than her, better teachers = greater growth, the only thing I see Tashigi having over Coby is experience and I'm not even adding where both character stand
Dude, you seriously think that formal training is better than actual experience? Really?
While it can be, usually it's experience that gives you more merit. They work the best when they are complementary.
And I haven't even said that Coby had more training than Tashigi, just that they fallowed different rout. We don't even know for how long Tashigi practices swordsmanship.
Coby have crazy grow spur - that's true, but I doubt he kept progressing on the same pace, precisely because of it. He was a wimp when the manga started, than crazy grow spur, so now I would anticipate steady, but relatively much slower progress now. There really is no way to tell how it's paced. It's not as when you learn or train for something you growth keeps the same pace all the time, it's highly individual thing. Some people work and work without any effect, than bam, quick progress, and then again (relative) stagnation and other people work with constant relatively small growth. Seems like Coby is first type and Tashigi probably second.
Dude, you seriously think that formal training is better than actual experience? Really?
While it can be, usually it's experience that gives you more merit. They work the best when they are complementary.
And I haven't even said that Coby had more training than Tashigi, just that they fallowed different rout. We don't even know for how long Tashigi practices swordsmanship.
Coby have crazy grow spur - that's true, but I doubt he kept progressing on the same pace, precisely because of it. He was a wimp when the manga started, than crazy grow spur, so now I would anticipate steady, but relatively much slower progress now. There really is no way to tell how it's paced. It's not as when you learn or train for something you growth keeps the same pace all the time, it's highly individual thing. Some people work and work without any effect, than bam, quick progress, and then again (relative) stagnation and other people work with constant relatively small growth. Seems like Coby is first type and Tashigi probably second.
Like I said before, the only thing I see Tashigi having more than Coby is experience and that's it, also you talk like experience will give you a huge advantage over somebody who has formal training, you can have more experience than me but that doesn't mean that you can receive/inflict more damage than me or win a battle because you have more experience than me, while Tashigi was fighting no-names pirates, Coby was being trained and we have plenty of example to choose from that support my point, experience will not always come in handy and I agree he's growth has to be slower now but still If he's being trained by Garp and was shown to have one of the greatest growth in the whole serie then you cannot expect the guy to be weaker than Tashigi.
We're not getting anywhere, so lets stop this discussion and wait for Coby to show up on the story then we'll know
@wolfwoof:
Didn't a VA use the iron lump technique at some point?
That was a filler Rear Admiral. Got owned quite quickly.
Also appeared in Film Z with the same strategy. Got owned even faster. Poor guy.
So i just realized that i now have the ability to update the poll.
So what were the suggestions for a new one? If there's a decent one i'll throw it up.
So i just realized that i now have the ability to update the poll.
So what were the suggestions for a new one? If there's a decent one i'll throw it up.
Will Old timer marines like garp, sengoku and Kong take part of the final one piece war against the government? Can reword it, idk If it's good.
So i just realized that i now have the ability to update the poll.
So what were the suggestions for a new one? If there's a decent one i'll throw it up.
No one should have al that power
So i just realized that i now have the ability to update the poll.
So what were the suggestions for a new one? If there's a decent one i'll throw it up.
The DF power of the third admiral, Green Bull? probably some options like wind, water etc. or generic such as paramecia, zoan, logia or non-df..
The DF power of the third admiral, Green Bull? probably some options like wind, water etc. or generic such as paramecia, zoan, logia or non-df..
Green represents the DF, Bull is the nickname like Kizaru is yellow and he's yellow because of his DF. So Kizaru is Yellow Monkey, Akainu Red (because of DF) Dog and Ryogukyo or something like that is green bull. Green refers to DF bull by personality/reputation
Green represents the DF, Bull is the nickname like Kizaru is yellow and he's yellow because of his DF. So Kizaru is Yellow Monkey, Akainu Red (because of DF) Dog and Ryogukyo or something like that is green bull. Green refers to DF bull by personality/reputation
I agree.. But we still don't know what his DF does, right? that's my poll idea. My 2 cents anyways!
I agree.. But we still don't know what his DF does, right? that's my poll idea. My 2 cents anyways!
Think of any powers that relate to the colour green and put them together for the poll.
Just thinking about it, I wonder if Coby suffered any repercussions for his act of defiance at the end of the war, once Sakazuki became fleet admiral?
Just thinking about it, I wonder if Coby suffered any repercussions for his act of defiance at the end of the war, once Sakazuki became fleet admiral?
Long ago some dude wrote a little thing about Coby, he said it would be cool if Akainu sent him to dangerous missions and all to kill him but it failed and instead he gained lots of experience and strength.
If that what happened it would be the fucking coolest thing ever, just sayian.
Just thinking about it, I wonder if Coby suffered any repercussions for his act of defiance at the end of the war, once Sakazuki became fleet admiral?
I'd like to think that Akainu regularly took round about ways to the office to avoid running into Garp
I mean he is an evil ass but he's not suicidal.
Just thinking about it, I wonder if Coby suffered any repercussions for his act of defiance at the end of the war, once Sakazuki became fleet admiral?
The real question is what goes through Cobys and Akainus mind when they stand close together.