Throughout this month, we will be testing new features (like search) so you may experience some hiccups from time to time. We'll try to not be too disruptive...
jinbei's never even talked about the revolutionaries let alone state anything about wanting to join them, common goals don't mean shit if the characters never interact the most he's done with them is escape from prison and save luffy, never got into any conversation the whole time about how he agrees with what there doing…. it ain't happening
anyone who still on the jinbei won't join wagon is just kidding themselves, it's so fucking obvious it's not even a question
I agree about this: I cannot feel any "this man will join" about Jinbe.
- He doesn't have any recognizable quirk.
- He is neither an usual Straw Hat or a Robin case.
LOL–Jimbei's quirk, as it was pointed out to me by Robby (credit where credit is due) is that he overdoes everything.
And the whole not obvious nakamate (like the others) could easily just be a new way to keep it a bit of a surprise.
While I agree with some of you that Jinbei doesn't feel like a lock because of his mannerism and demeanor, he literally cannot stay on FI. As has been said, once he quit the Shichibukai, he was banned from the island. True, we don't know where he was in those two years (perhaps on FI), but we do know that he can't stay on the island. This leads to only two real options. He'll leave with the SHs as a nakama or he'll leave on his own accord for some random reason like finding his crew (even though they no longer have bounties and some have given up being pirates). There really are no other valid options that I can think of. And looking at those two options, him leaving on his own accord to pursue some random goal makes little to no sense. He's accomplished many of his main objectives. He's been forgiven by Nami and crew for Arlong, Hody and the NFPs (and their ideals) have been defeated, and humans have been shown to be willing to sacrifice to protect the island, thus reviving the dream of the queen. Anything he pursues after completing all of that would be meaningless EXCEPT for joining the SHs.
(even though they no longer have bounties and some have given up being pirates)
But we do know they also left the island because Jinbe's status as Shichibukai was revoked.
And since Jinbe is a man who takes his duties very seriously, wouldn't he feel responsible for them?
I do agree that we are missing something about Jinbe, he still needs to give a reason for him to join the crew. However, this can be VERY quickly tied up, just as Franky was. It's this that will make, or break, his chance of joining.
I do agree that we are missing something about Jinbe, he still needs to give a reason for him to join the crew. However, this can be VERY quickly tied up, just as Franky was. It's this that will make, or break, his chance of joining.
Franky's case has a few differences from Jinbe's. Franky had a (very) personal flashback, in which by the end his dream (build the ship) was partially stated. His interactions with the crew (Usopp/Sanji in the train) were pretty awesome. Not to mention the "Mugiwara Pirates vs CP9" colorspread. But, above all other evidence, we knew we were going to get a shipwright. The crew was looking for one since Jaya; it was reinforced in Sky Piea, and later in Davy Back Fight, and then we arrived in a city full of shipwrights.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
@Miss:
Why wouldn't there be? You teach younglings fishman karate, not adults. And guess who Jinbe goes for first in his bloodthirsty brutality .. ? That's right.
http://media.moddb.com/images/groups/1/5/4674/younglings.gif
! What an awful thread.
No, I hope you mean kids, not infants. And who says adults can't be taught? I figure Jinbe could qualify as the master of this mysterious dojo. He definitely has the experience. It'd look great on a cover story too.
@I:
LOL–Jimbei's quirk, as it was pointed out to me by Robby (credit where credit is due) is that he overdoes everything.
I disagree. His work, especially in-battle techniques, is rather efficient and precise, and that is his quirk. I completely see him as the master to that dojo. No way in hell are we going to miss out on seeing the place.
I wonder how many more chapters until this debate will be all tied up. Four? Will we know before 2012?
@Lazy:
I wonder how many more chapters until this debate will be all tied up. Four? Will we know before 2012?
Not likely, it will probably be early 2012. Plus, there is likely to be double issues around new year…
There is Caribou and wrap up to deal with. And Jinbe making the decision could happen after this arc.. after he leaves with the Strawhats.
But we do know they also left the island because Jinbe's status as Shichibukai was revoked.
And since Jinbe is a man who takes his duties very seriously, wouldn't he feel responsible for them?
As Nami relieved Jinbe of the responsibility he felt over Arlong, so too could he be relieved of such responsibility by his crew, who would not want him tied down if he needed or wanted to go a different way than themselves.
Franky's case has a few differences from Jinbe's. Franky had a (very) personal flashback, in which by the end his dream (build the ship) was partially stated. His interactions with the crew (Usopp/Sanji in the train) were pretty awesome. Not to mention the "Mugiwara Pirates vs CP9" colorspread. But, above all other evidence, we knew we were going to get a shipwright. The crew was looking for one since Jaya; it was reinforced in Sky Piea, and later in Davy Back Fight, and then we arrived in a city full of shipwrights.
And despite all that, there were people rooting for Paulie to the end, were there not? Hindsight is pristine, 1080p viewing, isn't it?
Were Franky's interactions with Usopp and Sanji better than Jinbe's with Luffy, Nami and Sanji?
Is a color spread more definitive than multiple two-page spreads AND a cover?
Is there anyone who reasonably thought we would not be getting a FISHMAN from FISHMAN ISLAND? It's been foreshadowed since Water 7, and even further if you count Arlong Park.
And hey, Franky never said he wanted to actually RIDE his ship until the end. Like how Brook never said he needed to get to Laboon from the OTHER end of the Red Line until the end.
What's holding Jinbe back? A country that MIGHT need him to stick around despite the risks and a former crew that MIGHT need him to lead them, if they even show up before the arc's over. Not to mention the likely Chekhov's gun lying in wait that simply has yet to fire.
Face it, Jinbe's reasons for not joining are just as flimsy as Franky's or Brook's. Heck, as flimsy as even Sanji's or Zoro's, the former who wouldn't leave because of his debt, and the latter who planned to follow his own dream his own way.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Not likely, it will probably be early 2012. Plus, there is likely to be double issues around new year…
There is Caribou and wrap up to deal with. And Jinbe making the decision could happen after this arc.. after he leaves with the Strawhats.
O man forgot about Caribou… yeah that's really interesting actually...
and I agree with Deicide. What he's saying is just making a lot of sense to me.
@I:
LOL–Jimbei's quirk, as it was pointed out to me by Robby (credit where credit is due) is that he overdoes everything.
And the whole not obvious nakamate (like the others) could easily just be a new way to keep it a bit of a surprise.
I'm not remembering any examples of this quirk. Anyone got any?
Why does everyone keep bringing up past situations? Not every nakama has to follow a cookie cutter formula. We've seen before very unique situations of joining. Oda can do whatever the heck he wants. That being said, JIMBE 2012.
Hmm . . . after watching the recent anime episodes, I wonder if the Straw Hat's troubles getting to Fishman Island can be seen as sort of a "need" of a strong under-water fighter. Its never stated directly (like say, Doctor or Shipwright), but the crew is clearly suffering from the lack of one. I'm just imagining how much easier it would be if they had Jinbe when they left Saobody in the first place.
Granted, its unlikely that they'll ever need to travel deep under the ocean again, but it sort of fits the previous formulas where the crew needed a specialist position filled and then did so the subsequent arc.
As Nami relieved Jinbe of the responsibility he felt over Arlong, so too could he be relieved of such responsibility by his crew, who would not want him tied down if he needed or wanted to go a different way than themselves.
But then his crew needs to appear first, right? And that's one of the things I'm still waiting to happen.
And despite all that, there were people rooting for Paulie to the end, were there not? Hindsight is pristine, 1080p viewing, isn't it?
Yeah, but most were already convinced that it would be Franky. I was a Paulie supporter initially, but after the Sea Train, I totally jumped to Franky's bandwagon.
Were Franky's interactions with Usopp and Sanji better than Jinbe's with Luffy, Nami and Sanji?
Hell, a lot better, IMO. Jinbe is just the calm and collected dude. When he's part of a joke, he usually is the passive part (the serious one who got caught in it due to others' actions). Franky was really funny, and at the same time had very deep interactions with Robin and Usopp. Franky shone even when he was in the background doing his silly poses behind the all-badass Sanji, while Jinbe kind of disappears in the background while the crew is near him.
Is a color spread more definitive than multiple two-page spreads AND a cover?
Franky had a lot more going for him than just the cover with him among the crew and saying "Mugiwara Pirates". Aside from posing together with the crew, there's nothing in-story or in-character indicating (right now) that Jinbe's going to join.
Is there anyone who reasonably thought we would not be getting a FISHMAN from FISHMAN ISLAND? It's been foreshadowed since Water 7, and even further if you count Arlong Park.
There's have been zero foreshadowing that a fishman was going to join. Neither Luffy nor anyone else in the crew has even stated something like wanting a fishman in the crew. It's the fans who want a fishman in the crew, and some just assume we will have one, but Oda never stated anything like that in the past.
And hey, Franky never said he wanted to actually RIDE his ship until the end.
And yet there was a flashback, a dream, his interactions with the crew, him having his own fight and helping the others in arc's climax and the knowledge that Luffy wanted a shipwright. Think about it, if Luffy didn't want a shipwright, they'd not try to convince Franky otherwise, and Franky would remain in Water 7.
Like how Brook never said he needed to get to Laboon from the OTHER end of the Red Line until the end.
Once again, it was said that Luffy wanted a musician, and once Luffy knew the cool skeleton (already asked to join) was a musician, Luffy wouldn't give up on having Brook with his crew.
What's holding Jinbe back?
The fact that so far he has no reason to go with Luffy. Everything about this man so far has been about protecting Fishman Island. He so far has no dream whatsoever that would require him to hop into a pirate crew again. He so far has nothing to gain by joining the crew. Even "his" flashback failed to flesh out any possible motivations.
What does Jinbe has going for him? A cover and some panels with him posing with the crew.
His exposure in this arc makes him likely to join, but in-story we have been given no reasons for him to become the nineth person.
While I think he will end up joining because of this exposure, I still take it with a grain of salt, and it's no wonder a lot of people are still unconvinced.
Wano predictions: There will be 5 acts; All Straw Hats will get fights, some in Act 4; Big Mom Pirates will arrive; Carrot will have her moment, but won't join; Yamato will be a Kouzuki samurai and Wano's Guardian; Shanks will visit Luffy in Act 5; Next arc is Mary Geoise.
Jinbe refused the plea of Ace to take care of his brother, because he only supports those who gain his respect.
Lets say the arc would end right here, Luffy achieved the following:
But even before all that happened, how did Jinbe react to Luffy's speech to Hody about being the pirate king?
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/634/14
The question isn't what Jinbe has to gain by joining Luffy. The question isn't what he wants for Fishmen Island, or his crew, or whatever.
**The question is how Jinbe, a man with such pride, is going to repay Luffy?
How?**
Remember, we are talking about a man who would kill himself, either because of the evildoings of others (Arlong) or the apparently immense debt he feels toward those who help fishmen island.
Really, this would interest me, what do people think could Jinbe do to repay this immense debt towards Luffy?
Edit:
This might be even his "impossible goal", to repay Luffy, the one who achieved what generations before couldn't: freeing fishmen island of its hatred and suffering. Devoting his very existence towards supporting Luffy could be a start in his eyes…
Also, its worth mentioning back in Chapter 634 that the whole reason Luffy is saving Fishman island and becoming its hero is because Jinbe asked him to (and promised him some meat).
But with regards to Fishman Island's Safety, I assume that having them attend the reverie is probably good enough. Assuming that the Fishmen do migrate to the surface and set up a kingdom there (maybe in the calm belt, since the sea kings probably wouldn't be a problem), it would eliminate most of their pirate concerns (as not many people would find kidnapping mermaids worth it if it meant dealing with angry sea kings). Throw in some marine support and you've got yourself a very secure home for yourself. Even if they don't migrate to the surface, I assume Shirahoshi could tell the sea kings "don't let any pirates through" and it would work just as well.
As for the rest of the former Sun Pirates, they might all just get official pardons (again) as part of Fishman island joining the WG. They haven't done any pirating for 14 years now, and even if Akainu is the new Fleet Admiral, i don't think he'd have much say in the matter. Jinbe's original deal was with the Gorosei (IIRC), and unless they have some secret master scheme that calls for the Fishman staying under the waves, they seemed to me like practical people who'd be willing to overlook the Sun Pirate's former crimes (particularly since they were pirates of circumstance and are unlikely to return to piracy if they get a pardon) as part of a deal that secures another nation for the world government.
Anyway, that's how I think the arc is going to finish, with most of the fishman's problems resolving nicely and Jinbe saying "The only debt i have unfulfilled is to you, Luffy-kun"
Jinbe refused the plea of Ace to take care of his brother, because he only supports those who gain his respect.
Lets say the arc would end right here, Luffy achieved the following:
- He gained the trust of whole Fishmen Island.
- He indirectly guided Shirahoshi, who is (thanks to him) now able to summon Sea Kings.
- He defeated the NFP, and with them, the circle of hatred - exactly what Jinbe had in mind.
But even before all that happened, how did Jinbe react to Luffy's speech to Hody about being the pirate king?
http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/634/14
The question isn't what Jinbe has to gain by joining Luffy. The question isn't what he wants for Fishmen Island, or his crew, or whatever.
**The question is how Jinbe, a man with such pride, is going to repay Luffy?
How?**
Remember, we are talking about a man who would kill himself, either because of the evildoings of others (Arlong) or the apparently immense debt he feels toward those who help fishmen island.
Really, this would interest me, what do people think could Jinbe do to repay this immense debt towards Luffy?
Edit:
This might be even his "impossible goal", to repay Luffy, the one who achieved what generations before couldn't: freeing fishmen island of its hatred and suffering. Devoting his very existence towards supporting Luffy could be a start in his eyes…
You know I was thinking about that too. Jinbei is going to be hugely in debt to Luffy for saving the island, the princess, and the king. Jinbei will want to repay that debt. I mean if you look at it what Arlong did taking over Nami's home island was killing Jinbei because he sent Arlong there and when Nami forgave him he was really emotional about it. Jinbei really seems like the type of person to pay back his debts by any means. Perhaps he will join Luffy's crew to pay back the debt's he owes?
@Razzle:
I'm not remembering any examples of this quirk. Anyone got any?
-Being thrown into Impel Down in the first place over protest about the war
-When trying to capture a naval ship, he nearly accidentally nearly destroys it. "Oh yeah, I forgot we needed this one."
-"This plan isn't ready until we have a name for it!"
-And while people joke about it, his oft repeated "I will do this, even if it costs me my life!" bit.
Its just a couple examples at the moment, but it is a quirk he has. Not a major defining one, but like Zoro's bad sense of direction, or Chopper's hiding behind walls the wrong way, it doesn't need to be on display 24/7, its just an aspect, not the entire character. (unlike Brooke's dead jokes and panty jokes). The promises he makes and then keeps are also a prt of it.
@RobbyBevard:
-Being thrown into Impel Down in the first place over protest about the war
-When trying to capture a naval ship, he nearly accidentally nearly destroys it. "Oh yeah, I forgot we needed this one."
-"This plan isn't ready until we have a name for it!"
-And while people joke about it, his oft repeated "I will do this, even if it costs me my life!" bit.Its just a couple examples at the moment, but it is a quirk he has. Not a major defining one, but like Zoro's bad sense of direction, or Chopper's hiding behind walls the wrong way, it doesn't need to be on display 24/7, its just an aspect, not the entire character. (unlike Brooke's dead jokes and panty jokes). The promises he makes and then keeps are also a prt of it.
I think this is a quirk too:
!
He is just scratching his goatee when he is falling out of the sky while everyone is screaming lol! Only noticed this today when I was rereading some of my viz volumes xD
What if Oda decided to troll us, and have the strawhats leave fishman island without Jinbe only to have him swim onto the boat halfway to the New World.
Yeah, but most were already convinced that it would be Franky. I was a Paulie supporter initially, but after the Sea Train, I totally jumped to Franky's bandwagon.
Switch Jinbe with Franky, Shirahoshi with Paulie, and the Sea Train with the plaza battle, and there ya go.
Hell, a lot better, IMO. Jinbe is just the calm and collected dude. When he's part of a joke, he usually is the passive part (the serious one who got caught in it due to others' actions). Franky was really funny, and at the same time had very deep interactions with Robin and Usopp. Franky shone even when he was in the background doing his silly poses behind the all-badass Sanji, while Jinbe kind of disappears in the background while the crew is near him.
By "better", I meant what was more meaningful, Franky helping Usopp to accept Merry's fate or Nami lifting Jinbe's guilt off his shoulders? Do you truly think one trumps the other in importance?
Saying that Jinbe hasn't been mugging at every opportunity like Franky is missing his entire character. Take the last page of the last chapter, for example: you have him and Zoro both side by side in the background, not going nuts, not jumping for joy, but looking up smiling and celebrating in their own subdued, macho way. That's just the kind of character he was written as. Besides, in many of the group shots this arc, he's usually had either the first or the last word. And c'mon, if Jinbe was in the foreground all the time he'd block everybody off the panel.
There's have been zero foreshadowing that a fishman was going to join. Neither Luffy nor anyone else in the crew has even stated something like wanting a fishman in the crew. It's the fans who want a fishman in the crew, and some just assume we will have one, but Oda never stated anything like that in the past.
If being a stated desire were a stead-fast requirement, instead of an archeologist we'd have zombies.
And yet there was a flashback, a dream, his interactions with the crew, him having his own fight and helping the others in arc's climax and the knowledge that Luffy wanted a shipwright. Think about it, if Luffy didn't want a shipwright, they'd not try to convince Franky otherwise, and Franky would remain in Water 7.
If he didn't want a shipwright, the Merry would have sunk and they'd all be dead. The End.
In seriousness, out of what you just said does Jinbe NOT have? A flashback? Interactions with the crew? Having a fight (shared, I'll remind you, like Brook)? Helping the others in the arc's climax? As for the dream problem, read on.
Franky had a lot more going for him than just the cover with him among the crew and saying "Mugiwara Pirates". Aside from posing together with the crew, there's nothing in-story or in-character indicating (right now) that Jinbe's going to join.
The fact that so far he has no reason to go with Luffy. Everything about this man so far has been about protecting Fishman Island. He so far has no dream whatsoever that would require him to hop into a pirate crew again. He so far has nothing to gain by joining the crew. Even "his" flashback failed to flesh out any possible motivations.
What does Jinbe has going for him? A cover and some panels with him posing with the crew.
His exposure in this arc makes him likely to join, but in-story we have been given no reasons for him to become the nineth person.
While I think he will end up joining because of this exposure, I still take it with a grain of salt, and it's no wonder a lot of people are still unconvinced.
You're probably astounded every time you see there's actually a secret message when you use those red lenses.
!
I've pointed out many times that Jinbe HAS shown in the flashback to be deeply thinking about Tiger and Otohime's ideologies and which is better. If his dream is, for example, "I want to find which path is better," there you'll have it. Chekhov's gun is in there somewhere, so don't be surprised when it's blasted off right in your face.
And to imagine we went through 7 chapters of flashback for no other reason than background; that would have Skypiea's beat by a landslide, that's for sure.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Damn, for a while Shift and I have had the same mindset of Jinbe joining. Right down to the arguments.
Guess I can repeat all the aspects of Jimbei's character that do give him a very clear and plausible purpose in joining the Straw Hats….only said this back in July / August =P
-Slavery / Discrimination / Racism against Fishmen and Merpeople is not going to end overnight; It requires changing the world's perception. While Fishman Island may move to the surface and Shirahoshi may attend Reverie, there are still slaves (human, fishman, mermaid, even giant) at Marijoa. There are still places like Goa Kingdom, microcosms of the World Government. Otohime fought this injustice through politics while Tiger fought as a pirate. A parallel can be drawn between Otohime / Tiger and Shirahoshi / Jimbei. We already know Jimbei cannot remain on Fishman Island…he's a pirate (either solo or as part of the Straw Hat crew) and thus not fit to be one of their key political leaders at this point in time without his Warlord status. Now consider Luffy is not just any pirate. He's the future Pirate King. What role is the future Pirate King going to serve? Roger was indeed feared by many...but everyone who actually met him had deep admiration and respect for him as a person. It's pretty clear he was a pirate much like Luffy. One distinction that can be drawn between the two is that Luffy will finish what Roger couldn't. When the treasure is found there will be a conflict to engulf the entire world....Roger entrusted his treasure One Piece and the Rio Poneglyph to his successor. As stated, Jimbei is a pirate not a diplomat or a politician. How can he best fight for equality and safety of Fishmen / Mermaids as whole? Would it be fighting solo as a lone pirate on the seas or alongside the future Pirate King who will one day weild considerable amount of influence on world events? Consider that Shanks, Whitebeard, Kaido, and Big Mom were called the Four Emperors not only due to the strength but due to the tremendous amount of authority they weilded despite being outlaws or pirates. The future Pirate King will be in a position of even greater strength....a position to challenge the World Government and all it's unjust practices directly. Fighting alongside a human, the future Pirate King (note that Luffy's crew fully believe in him....it's not "Maybe he'll find One Piece"; After fighting alongside Luffy at the battle of Marineford and his entire crew in defense of Fishman Island I have no doubt Jimbei will have the same level of confidence in Luffy) will allow Jimbei to better acheive this goal.
-Jimbei's friendship with Ace and promise to protect Luffy. Jimbei told Ace that he would only protect his brother if he respected him....that decision was made by the end of the battle at Marineford when Jimbei put his life on the line to defend Luffy from Akainu. He clearly respects Luffy and now after fighting alongside him in defense of Fishman Island, it's pretty clear that admiration / respect is growing deeper....enough so to call him captain.
Further, outside of the Straw Hats, Jimbei's level of exposure and prominence in the story is matched only by Vivi, who is still considered an honorary member of the Straw Hat crew despite not sailing with them. Also consider that Vivi would have sailed with the Straw Hats in a heartbeat if she couldn't better serve Alabasta by remaining with her people despite lack of a clearly stated dream that necessitated her sailing with the crew. Also consider that Chopper and Usopp's dreams could be accomplished any number of ways...they chose Luffy as their captain for personal reasons. Being a great doctor and a brave warrior of the sea can be accomplished on any pirate crew....they're best accomplished on the crew of the Pirate King with a captain they trust and believe in and the support of their friends. The same could be said for Jimbei's quest to protect the Fishmen (he can't do it as a diplomat - he's a pirate by nature and a wanted man with a bounty of 400 million+). Unlike Vivi, Jimbei best serves his people by leaving Fishman Island
The excuse of "Jimbei's crew" is incredibly flimsy. Where are they now? Compare Jimbei's "crew" to the Franky Family who were prominent throughout the entirety of the Water Seven / Enies Lobby mega arc. Mozu, Kiwi, Zambai, etc. were seen in the present story and their attachment to Franky was clearly seen, yet ultimately Franky was able to leave Water Seven in pursuit of his dream. How is it anyone can then say Jimbei is held back by a crew of pirates that may or may not serve him and have been completely absent for the entirety of Fishman Island without a single mention by Jimbei or any other character? What Fishmen are even left in the old crew? Macro became a thug, Hatchan now works with Camie at his Takoyaki restaurant, Arlong, Chu, and Kuroobi are in prison....the only unknown is Aladdin. I will admit it's strange that Aladdin was shown in the flashback and unlike all other prominent members of the crew remains to be seen in the present storyline. To me that only further underlines that there's more going on here beyond the situation with Hodi Jones.
If Jimbei's crew is still present and under his command, where are they now? Why weren't they fighting alongside their captain as he fought against Hodi Jones in defense of Fishman Island? The crew is known to have split apart after Tiger's death. What makes anyone think they're still together under Jimbei's command and have this super close bond like Franky with his family? If the old Fishman Pirates still exist as a group, I would suggest they are either under new leadership, no longer share Jimbei's ideology, or have simply split apart entirely (guess that would mean they don't exist). I don't really see how anyone can find these possibly existent yet absent for 45 chapters of the arc characters as a setback for Jimbei leaving the island behind or allying himself with Luffy and the Straw Hats. Aladdin being absent is odd....but there are a lot of loose ends that clearly indicate this arc is NOT over yet. I still like the theory that Reverie is a future potential arc.
As for Vivi, I think there's still a chance she will sail with the Straw Hats in the New World, but that remains to be seen and depends on future story development.
As for the rest of Fishman Island....Caribou is still running loose, the importance of Noah and Joy Boy remain unexplained, the past incident several centuries ago in which migration to the surface was also stopped hasn't yet been explained (Shandora type flashback? I don't think it's a coincidence that FI and Shandora, two civilizations that have existed for centuries both possess poneglyphs), and it remains to be seen how Luffy is supposedly going to "Destroy Fishman Island"....Aladdin's absence is pretty odd. I don't know in what capacity yet, but I do expect we will see him in the present story during this arc or the next. We have to see the Fishman Dojo at some point also. I've said in the past that I don't think Hodi is the central villain in a sense...I think there's something more going on in that Fishman Island has been trying to migrate to the surface for more than the past 16 years. It was briefly mentioned, but likely very important that this is not a one time event. It's likely not a coincidence that Hodi made his move just as Reverie is approaching and all petitions have been re-signed. He assassinated Otohime just before the Fishmen were able to attend Reverie 16 years ago. Guess it's the moment of truth for a few of these theories now that Hodi, VDD, and the NFP are all out of comission and Noah has been stopped. In any case, I don't expect the Straw Hats to reach the surface in the New World for some time yet. So far we've only really seen the Straw Hats showing off some new abilities as they fight fodder villains (albeit with more personality and individuality than most fodder). However, we know that Oda has been talking about Fishman Island for many years in the story. He's been building it up for so long, there is more to the story of this arc than showing off new abilities...it most definitely serves a greater purpose for the story as a whole. There has been way too much buildup for Fishman Island to be nothing but a big battle. I think big things are going to happen on the story end of things soon. The number of remaining loose ends I discussed earlier in this post serve as good evidence to support this idea. Also consider that if Oda intended Jimbei to join, he likely has had this in mind for a loooooong time much like Brook. If this is the case, he would've thought of at least some aspects of the situation / arc in which Jimbei joins over the years right? This would fall perfectly in line with the fact that Jimbei and Fishman Island have both been name dropped in the story since way back in volume 8.
Theories on the remainder of Fishman Island aside, I see plenty of evidence and reason for Jimbei to join beyond the volume 64 cover and plethora of two page spreads with him shown together with the rest of the crew as detailed above. While some may disagree, I feel his interactions with the crew have been meaningful and he feels like he fits in with the others pretty well.
Agreed Vongola. What people will question you with is "How could Jinbei know that Luffy is going have so much influence over the world? We as readers do, but it's impossible for Jinbei."
My theory to that is when Noah's history is revealed along with Joy Boy, Jinbei is going to realize that even by legal means, FI representatives will never truly accomplish their goals as long as the Celestial Dragon's have a place of power. At least something along these lines that the only way he will see change is through Luffy after learning about Noah and Joy Boy.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯ 
Agreed Vongola. What people will question you with is "How could Jinbei know that Luffy is going have so much influence over the world? We as readers do, but it's impossible for Jinbei."
Umh, nope. We can say Jinbe already knows Luffy will play a major role over the world's balance.
!
Umh, nope. We can say Jinbe already knows Luffy will play a major role over the world's balance.
! http://i16.mangareader.net/one-piece/577/one-piece-1232504.jpg
Are you referring to White Beards speech or what? I used that as a pro for this exact argument before.
My point being that despite what we as readers can see, how could most anyone be so sure that Luffy will want to change the world like that? Even after what White Beard said to the world hinting that Luffy or someone will carry on the will of Roger, I don't think Jinbe has taken that into much consideration yet. At least not until he listens to what Neptune or Robin has to say.
Folks who read One Piece… Just better people. ¯\(ツ)/¯
At this point you are right RomanceDawn. Although Jinbei has much admiration and respect for Luffy and also sees him as the one who will carry Ace´s will ( like in the panel above), there is no indication for Jinbei that suggests that Luffy could be more than a pirate, but we shouldn´t forget about the prophecy Otohime was talking about.
As soon as the Neptune brothers hear that Shirahoshi has called the Sea Kings they will understand that Luffy is the man in the prophecy and they probably will tell at least Neptune and Jinbei if not the whole island about the prophecy. The prophecy states that one man will guide the mermaid to use her ability (in this case Luffy and Shira) and that the same man will not only change the fate of Fishman Island but also the fate of the whole world. I think hearing this will probably change how Jinbei regards Luffy and will also give him a reason to follow Luffy on his path.
Jimbei doesn't exactly show the same quality as the rest of Strawhat's crew. I think a key component to being a Strawhat member is to have a great ambition to strive. Everyone in the crew has a dream to be the best at what they do. Jimbei doesn't have that same enthusiasm, as he's already a powerful character with a high position amongst his peers. He wants to see Strawhat succeed, but he's a friend the way Boa Hancock, Vivi or Silvers Rayleigh are. He doesn't really
To top it off, every one of the Strawhats members has another thing in common. They all suffered a traumatic past, and most if not all were orphans. The only exception is Brook, as we never see his childhood before joining the Rumbar pirates. Jimbei might have gone through a lot himself with being part of Fisher Tiger's crew and the whole war with the humans, but he doesn't have that personal story that drives him to becoming the best there is. I think that quality is required for anyone to join the Strawhats.
Jimbei doesn't exactly show the same quality as the rest of Strawhat's crew. I think a key component to being a Strawhat member is to have a great ambition to strive. Everyone in the crew has a dream to be the best at what they do. Jimbei doesn't have that same enthusiasm, as he's already a powerful character with a high position amongst his peers. He wants to see Strawhat succeed, but he's a friend the way Boa Hancock, Vivi or Silvers Rayleigh are. He doesn't really
To top it off, every one of the Strawhats members has another thing in common. They all suffered a traumatic past, and most if not all were orphans. The only exception is Brook, as we never see his childhood before joining the Rumbar pirates. Jimbei might have gone through a lot himself with being part of Fisher Tiger's crew and the whole war with the humans, but he doesn't have that personal story that drives him to becoming the best there is. I think that quality is required for anyone to join the Strawhats.
He didn't join Tiger's crew and then the Warlords just for kicks, y'know. First it was beating up humans, then kissing up to them for restoring peace. Now he doesn't know what to do, but he obviously wants to accomplish something. And what is it he doesn't really do? You kinda cut off there…
Anyway, you know Jinbe grew up in the Fishman District, right? The haven for orphans? And losing Tiger, Otohime, Whitebeard AND Ace isn't considered traumatic?
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Jimbei doesn't exactly show the same quality as the rest of Strawhat's crew. I think a key component to being a Strawhat member is to have a great ambition to strive. Everyone in the crew has a dream to be the best at what they do. Jimbei doesn't have that same enthusiasm, as he's already a powerful character with a high position amongst his peers. He wants to see Strawhat succeed, but he's a friend the way Boa Hancock, Vivi or Silvers Rayleigh are. He doesn't really
To top it off, every one of the Strawhats members has another thing in common. They all suffered a traumatic past, and most if not all were orphans. The only exception is Brook, as we never see his childhood before joining the Rumbar pirates. Jimbei might have gone through a lot himself with being part of Fisher Tiger's crew and the whole war with the humans, but he doesn't have that personal story that drives him to becoming the best there is. I think that quality is required for anyone to join the Strawhats.
And what exactly is Brook trying to be the best at? ,finding Laboon?
Or what about Robin? She's not trying to be the best at anything she just wants to find out a certain truth thats been hidden from the world.
Even Sanji ,people try to play like he wants to be the best Chef in the World ,when all he wants to do is find All Blue & cook up some rare fish to eat.
SG
But the SH members not mentioned in this post certainly fit the "I wanna be the best" criteria,but it doesn't mean ALL SH fall under that category.
Are you referring to White Beards speech or what? I used that as a pro for this exact argument before.
My point being that despite what we as readers can see, how could most anyone be so sure that Luffy will want to change the world like that? Even after what White Beard said to the world hinting that Luffy or someone will carry on the will of Roger, I don't think Jinbe has taken that into much consideration yet. At least not until he listens to what Neptune or Robin has to say.
Yeah, i'm referring to Whitebeard's speech.
And I think Jinbe took that speech very seriously; He was ready to trade his life for Luffy's safety, so I assume he was at least aware of Luffy's importance. About your point… I'm quite sure Jinbe can see how Luffy will likely change the world just by looking at what he's doing on FI. Willingly or not, Luffy is changing FI and the inhabitants [and they started comparing him to Whitebeard ( coincidence? maybe)]. All these things make me think that Jinbe already knows that Luffy has the power to change the whole world. He'll do it on purpose? Surely not, because he isn't interested on "being a hero", but it doesn't change the fact that he's changing it piece after piece.
If someone comes up with that question, we'll simply reply with that panel (and many others with the same subject).
We know nothing about Sanji or Zoro's parents.
Luffy wasn't exactly an orphan. He was never really abandoned. We don't know the circumstances under which Dragon left Luffy to Garp….and Garp passed him off on Dadan. In any case, he had at least his grandfather checking in on him routinely even if he was raised by a mountain bandit past the age of 7.
Vivi is NOT on the same level as Hancock; one is an honorary member of the Straw Hat Pirates, the other is just a friend / ally. Vivi is on a different level.
Also, valid points about Jimbei not knowing the full extent of Luffy's future infleunce on the world. However, I would say if he does join, he will be just as confident in Luffy as the rest of the crew that he WILL be Pirate King someday. Jimbei is a smart guy and knows a bit more about world events than most members of the crew aside from Robin and possibly Nami. It's likely he has a vague notion on the level of influence the future Pirate King will hold simply because he was alive and old enough to remember vividly the age of piracy when Roger was king. He also sees the level of influence that Whitebeard was able to hold in protecting Fishman Island in the past. Luffy will not just reach that degree of influence, but surpass it someday.
As for traumatic pasts...Jimbei does have a scar we don't know about yet. He did grow up in the Fishman District and endure decades of racism and discrimination. There's also the fact that Robin's backstory wasn't revealed until 17 volumes after she joined...and Luffy's backstory was expanded significantly 583 chapters after the start of the series. Considerng we still have parts of Sanji, Franky, Brook, and possibly Zoro's pasts left unexplored, there's still room for all members of the crew to develop further including Jimbei. Luffy and Sanji both had a mentor / father-like figure give up a limb for them to survive....I'd say decades of racism is on par. Luffy's not going to turn someone away because they didn't suffer enough as a kid. He's not that kind of person. Vivi fit perfectly well with the crew despite having grown up the heir to the throne of Alabasta and no one in the crew would've rejected her based on lack of trauma.
And what exactly is Brook trying to be the best at? ,finding Laboon?
Or what about Robin? She's not trying to be the best at anything she just wants to find out a certain truth thats been hidden from the world.
Even Sanji ,people try to play like he wants to be the best Chef in the World ,when all he wants to do is find All Blue & cook up some rare fish to eat.
SG
But the SH members not mentioned in this post certainly fit the "I wanna be the best" criteria,but it doesn't mean ALL SH fall under that category.
Robin wants to find the truth of the world, that Void Century.
Brook is the odd one out, but he's also the least developed of the Strawhat crew so I'm waiting to see if he gets a deeper story beyond finding Laboon. He's also the only one who immediately accepted Luffy's offer to join the crew, so to be honest I don't think anyone really knows his motivations for joining the crew other than being saved from the Florian triangle.
Jimbei though doesn't strike me as strawhat material. He's a great character, I just don't see him fitting alongside the other characters as naturally. He's Boss Jimbei, former Shichibukai and 'First son of the sea'. He's already established in the world, while the Strawhats are still finding their place in the world. He doesn't strike me as the adventuring type any more, that life is behind him and his personality shows it.
Regarding Vivi, she sorta is on a different level? The idea is that she's a character that supports the Strawhats, but is not part of the crew. She's an honorary member, but the big part of her character is that she's a princess/queen and her duties are to her people. The Strawhats owe allegience to no one except their Captain. They have no responsibilities that bind them to the world.
On that point, that's also another quality that works against Jimbei. I think he is and will be an important part of mending the relations between Fishmen and Humans, and he will have worldly responsibilities to attend to. Remember that the reason he became Shichibukai in the first place is a complete selfless act so that the Marines would not kill/capture Arlong. It's also the reason why he didn't want Luffy to fight Hody. He wants to protect his people. A big part of Luffy's personality is that he's not out to save the world of be the good guy, he lives to go on an adventure and be free.
Brook was not the only one to accept as soon as he was asked. Usopp also joined as soon as he knew Luffy, Zoro, and Nami wanted him.
Read above post on same page which addressses Jimbei not staying behind on FI for the sake of his people.
Also, Jimbei did NOT join the Seven Warlords to protect Arlong from the Marines. Arlong was already captured and imprissoned in Impel Down. Jimbei joined the Warlords as it afforded greater protection to Fishman Island. Part of the deal was that the WG released Arlong…something Jimbei did NOT want. Releasing Arlong was one of the WG's terms, not one of Jimbei's. The WG granted pardon to the entire crew, including Arlong which troubled Jimbei. Arlong plainly told Jimbei that with his new freedom he was going to pilage and plunder humans and exact his revenge for the death of Tiger. Jimbei couldn't bring himself to killing Arlong and instead decided to wait and take action only if he heard Arlong was acting out. However, he did not anticipate Arlong paying off Nezumi and thus hiding all of his actions from the WG, thus Jimbei felt responsible for what happened to Cocoyashi Village and Belle-Mere.
As far as being "established in the world", Zoro and Robin were both established prior to joining the crew. Throughout the East Blue, "Pirate Hunter" Zoro's name carried a greater degree of infamy than "Straw Hat" Luffy, a completely unknown pirate. Even after his 30 million bounty, Zoro still seemed equally famous. Luffy received a bounty increase to 100 million, but considering the WG completely covered up the SH's actions in Alabasta and instead credited Smoker with the defeat of Crocodile, the world still never attached Luffy's name to any major events - only a high bounty. It wasn't until Enies Lobby that Luffy's name started to gain recognition. "Demon Child" Nico Robin's name was far more famous for her association with the Ohara Incident at the time she joined. I see no difference with "Knight of the Sea" Jimbei....considering Luffy also fought alongside Whitebeard, Crocodile, Ivankov, Jimbei, and Buggy at Marineford he's pretty infamous at this point. The difference between Jimbei and the rest of the crew in terms of noteriety is pretty negligiable and in time, just as Luffy passed Zoro and Robin in terms of recognition, the same will happen in this situation.
As far as the Straw Hats not bieng bound to anyone...that's not entirely true either. They all have people they left behind that they want to protect. Luffy endured the hell of Impel Down and the Marineford war to save his brother Ace. Is there any doubt Nami would do the same for Nojiko? Franky for Mozu, Kiwi, Zambai, and Iceberg? Vivi just happens to have an entire Kingdom rather than a small handful . Regardless, they all have people they want to protect. Vivi just has a few more and at the time being, she remains in her kingdom for their sake. Now, if the situation in Alabasta changed and as in the past when she left for three years to stop Crocodile, protecting Alabasta meant leaving, she would do so which is what prompts me to believe she very well may sail with the crew again should the right situation arise. Certainly at the very least she will accompany them in the world engulfing conflict at least by my estimation.
I guess that's true with Robin. She was Mrs. All Sunday, yet she became a crewmember without much reason or motivation to join.
I think overall I still see the Strawhat crew as a crew of misfits or underdogs, and I see Jimbei as being neither. If he did join, he'd be very similar to what Robin already fills in as a down-to-earth serious character.
I guess that's true with Robin. She was Mrs. All Sunday, yet she became a crewmember without much reason or motivation to join.
I think overall I still see the Strawhat crew as a crew of misfits or underdogs, and I see Jimbei as being neither. If he did join, he'd be very similar to what Robin already fills in as a down-to-earth serious character.
I feel the same way. She has a gag (seeing the glass half empty in grim situations) and she is serious pretty much all the time. Same thing with Zoro. Jinbe's character STILL needs a lot of work, but if he joins I won't be broken up over it. Hopefully IF he joins, he'll become likeable, but right now he's still pretty meh, IN MY OPINION.
Anyway, you know Jinbe grew up in the Fishman District, right? The haven for orphans?
I don't mean to re-enter this argument, but I'm being nitpicky again.
FD began as a haven for orphans, but grew into slums filled with outcasts and criminals. If we are to see Jinbe's childhood, it may be a bit similar to Hody and his buddies. Remember who was one of the roughest against humans before Koala turned around his heart? Even Arlong was cautious around him, not just because he's number two in command. (However, that same flashback could show us exactly what he's been through AKA the scar's origin, so I wouldn't mind seeing it.)
One day, everyone will understand that the Compass Birds are in fact the most important clue to the Void Century.
I guess that's true with Robin. She was Mrs. All Sunday, yet she became a crewmember without much reason or motivation to join.
I think overall I still see the Strawhat crew as a crew of misfits or underdogs, and I see Jimbei as being neither. If he did join, he'd be very similar to what Robin already fills in as a down-to-earth serious character.
Jinbe and Robin are both serious characters.
And yet treats danger and grimness as nothing more than part of life. Wait, same can be said with Zoro. The Stolid Trio!
So Zoro gets lost, Robin makes light of a grim situation, what would Jimbei's gag be?
I don't mean to re-enter this argument, but I'm being nitpicky again.
FD began as a haven for orphans, but grew into slums filled with outcasts and criminals. If we are to see Jinbe's childhood, it may be a bit similar to Hody and his buddies. Remember who was one of the roughest against humans before Koala turned around his heart? Even Arlong was cautious around him, not just because he's number two in command. (However, that same flashback could show us exactly what he's been through AKA the scar's origin, so I wouldn't mind seeing it.)
Good observations, but yeah, kinda nitpicky. The point is, whether he grew up without parents or not, Jinbe's folks matter about as much as Zoro's.
Like the Avatar? / Like the Miis?
Dragalia Lost ID: 97617932505
Thinking about it some more, now I'm starting to realize Jimbei would be more fit to join the Strawhats than anything. Considering that all of this is post-time skip, every one of the Strawhats is super powerful. Jimbei would be a complete shoe-in, since he would be one of the few known characters with comparable skill in fighting. The timeskip and the events here even line up well enough that it seems like this theory could actually take shape.
So Zoro gets lost, Robin makes light of a grim situation, what would Jimbei's gag be?
I said all 3 make light of a grim situation. I'm guessing another Jinbe's gag would be being slow to be shocked, like Chopper. I guess the I will do X even at the cost of my life would be a similar gag to Brook asking for panties randomly from women. Or maybe his gag would be destroying something and then realizing he wasn't supposed to? (Monster Trio have this too)
Maybe Oda will invent more gags. Zoro didn't get lost as much in the beginning.
The Stolid Trio make a good gag trio:
Volcanoes all over the world are erupting! Dark clouds smother the sky! Nukes all over the world are launched! The dead are rising from their graves! A virus infects and spreads killing billions! Robots rebel against their human masters!
Stolid Trio: stares for a few seconds Oh, it's the apocalypse. Sounds pretty bad.
Well, he's lacking any real quality, so I therefore nominate Jinbe for the position of official Strawhat hair dresser.
He has experience with those mad yellow curls. And just look at how desu desu kawaii he is doing what he loves. Pssh, gurl, Jinbe's got his job now. Jinbe4nakama~
You know the last few pages have been AGOG Perona style posts.
And regardless of how far fetched some of his claims were he did convince a few people that his views were plausable - Jinbei is the best of the only available viable crewmates, that shouldn't be forgotten it's not forgone conclusion its a conclusion based on available data.
Dream/Driving Ideal
Reason for Scar
Previous Crew
Is whats left to be discovered sure but in no way do the abcence of these things mean they ARE evidence he is or is not joining.
The sad thing is that these things are more likely to be discussed in the last couple of chapters before he joins, if it is him - I was thinking it could have been similar to Franky where Jinbei refuses to leave because of FI and Luffy then decides to destroy it just to make Jinbei join but that seems rather too extreme.
Pell survived because he is a Falcon - Stop using him as a bad example.
The Peregrine Falcon reaches faster speeds than any other animal on the planet when performing the stoop,which involves soaring to a great height and then diving steeply at speeds of over 320 km/h (200 mph)
You know the last few pages have been AGOG Perona style posts.
And regardless of how far fetched some of his claims were he did convince a few people that his views were plausable - Jinbei is the best of the only available viable crewmates, that shouldn't be forgotten it's not forgone conclusion its a conclusion based on available data.Dream/Driving Ideal
Reason for Scar
Previous Crew
Is whats left to be discovered sure but in no way do the abcence of these things mean they ARE evidence he is or is not joining.The sad thing is that these things are more likely to be discussed in the last couple of chapters before he joins, if it is him - I was thinking it could have been similar to Franky where Jinbei refuses to leave because of FI and Luffy then decides to destroy it just to make Jinbei join but that seems rather too extreme.
Love it.
How about this kind of scenario:
Fishman Island becomes officially part of the World Government and capturing and slaving fishmen and mermen will be made illegal. Those who used to be slaves are also freed, including Jimbei's crew that has mostly slave members. Jimbei has still bounty on his head, so he still can't stay at the Fishman Island and therefore has no other place to stay than the Straw Hat -crew?
How about this kind of scenario:
Fishman Island becomes officially part of the World Government and capturing and slaving fishmen and mermen will be made illegal. Those who used to be slaves are also freed, including Jimbei's crew that has mostly slave members. Jimbei has still bounty on his head, so he still can't stay at the Fishman Island and therefore has no other place to stay than the Straw Hat -crew?
It is part of the World Government part already, which is why the regent(s) can participate in Reverie. Slaving is illegal already.
I can see the logic in your last argument - so that Jinbe doesn't have in the Sea Forest for another two years (even though I think he will be celebrated as a hero now and allowed to stay at Fishman Island) - but the rest of it does not make much sense compared to your last argument, seeing that the slave trade is a shady business that the government, not the pirates, needs to stop.
