Is the watchman movie worth watching?
DC Movies Thread - Shazam saves the day
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Is the watchman movie worth watching?
It's fairly accurate to the comic in a lot of ways, since they outright used the comic as a template for it and the comic is really really good so the movie at the end of the day comes out overall decent for faithfully adapting what it did… but it makes some huge mistakes in characterization and themeing that really harm the movie and the intended message overall.
So, yes but also kinda no? Not really?
Like Spoilers for both the movie and the comic kinda but I'll try to be vague:
! One big thing is how the movie glorifies the violence when the book was trying to be critical of it, but the biggest issue is that The movie frames Rorschach as heroic when he's not. Pretty much everyone in the comic is supposed to come off like an asshole/incompetent or both. You're not really supposed to "Like" anyone, and the ending is supposed to be kindof ambiguous.
! A major thing bad thing happens at one point and a key thing about the intent of the book is how the characters respond to that bad thing. The event itself was unquestionably bad, but the story then raises the question of "Ok, but now that the thing happened, what is the correct thing to do from here?" and the book left this question up in the air. You aren't supposed to have an answer. You, the reader, are left to ponder it. The book wants you to think about it.
! The movie basically gives you an answer by making Rorshach out to be heroic and better than everyone and they even underscore it by an added speech that one character gives to another at the end of the movie that basically communicates "This one point of view is DEFINITELY wrong! Rorschach was right!" completely destroying the intent of the book to make you think and come up with an answer yourself. -
It's fairly accurate to the comic in a lot of ways, since they outright used the comic as a template for it and the comic is really really good so the movie at the end of the day comes out overall decent for faithfully adapting what it did… but it makes some huge mistakes in characterization and themeing that really harm the movie and the intended message overall.
So, yes but also kinda no? Not really?
Like Spoilers for both the movie and the comic kinda but I'll try to be vague:
! One big thing is how the movie glorifies the violence when the book was trying to be critical of it, but the biggest issue is that The movie frames Rorschach as heroic when he's not. Pretty much everyone in the comic is supposed to come off like an asshole/incompetent or both. You're not really supposed to "Like" anyone, and the ending is supposed to be kindof ambiguous.
! A major thing bad thing happens at one point and a key thing about the intent of the book is how the characters respond to that bad thing. The event itself was unquestionably bad, but the story then raises the question of "Ok, but now that the thing happened, what is the correct thing to do from here?" and the book left this question up in the air. You aren't supposed to have an answer. You, the reader, are left to ponder it. The book wants you to think about it.
! The movie basically gives you an answer by making Rorshach out to be heroic and better than everyone and they even underscore it by an added speech that one character gives to another at the end of the movie that basically communicates "This one point of view is DEFINITELY wrong! Rorschach was right!" completely destroying the intent of the book to make you think and come up with an answer yourself.Is the Snyder cut better than the theatrical one, in your opinion? I just bought it used since it was really cheap but haven't watched it so I've only seen the theatrical one.
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Is the Snyder cut better than the theatrical one, in your opinion? I just bought it used since it was really cheap but haven't watched it so I've only seen the theatrical one.
Not really. Both versions have the same basic problem. The Director's cut has some footage in that as a comic fan I like. Holis Mason now has a point to being in the story so I Guess that's an improvement?
But it does nothing to fix my main criticism about the theme and consequences
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Not really. Both versions have the same basic problem. The Director's cut has some footage in that as a comic fan I like. Holis Mason now has a point to being in the story so I Guess that's an improvement?
But it does nothing to fix my main criticism about the theme and consequences
Oh, so the same problem as the extended cut of Batman v Superman. The movie still sucks, it's just a half hour more sucky.
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Sooooo . . . is Swamp Thing a good or a bad guy in this case?
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Sooooo . . . is Swamp Thing a good or a bad guy in this case?
I know this is always a coy awful joke answer, but… the answer you're looking for is "yes."
The trailer isn't spoiling anything so I won't either but given the character names being dropped and the story they seem to be doing, I could probably give away a big thing right now. Looks like a combination of the origin story and one of the early Alan Moore stories.
The fact that they ARE dropping those character names has to be for the comic fans because there's just... no reason to say THOSE names in the trailer otherwise.
It's kind of akin to them announcing a Batman movie and then in the trailer showing a guy named Harvey Dent in it.
They're also hewing very close to the horror story vibe of the comics. Which... is the way to go probably, but probably not what audiences expect from a "superhero" character. We'll see.
Also, its a series instead of a movie, so I hope it does super well and that they get a couple of seasons and have room (and budget) to get into the crazy stuff.
...for budget reasons we're probably not getting Swamp Thing in space though, no matter how cool that arc was.
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I know this is always a coy awful joke answer, but… the answer you're looking for is "yes."
I mean, I know Swamp Thing is supposed to be an angry guy because of people ruining his swamp and nature in general, but I thought he's also supposed to fight agains the bad guys. An anti-hero, in other words.
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I mean, I know Swamp Thing is supposed to be an angry guy because of people ruining his swamp and nature in general, but I thought he's also supposed to fight agains the bad guys. An anti-hero, in other words.
He's generally on the side of good guys and can be considered a hero. But his powerset and actual origin and motives mean that he's a little more big picture than most, and Alan Moore's run at least meant he generally got more nuanced problems.
Also his title was a horror comic so.
Swampy once he has his full powers is…. really scary.
But it mostly boils down to the specific story they seem to be doing and I don't want to ruin anything for anybody.
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Maybe I'm just biased because the most of Swamp Thing I remember was the cartoon back in the 90s. Guess I should find that Alan Moore book.
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Maybe I'm just biased because the most of Swamp Thing I remember was the cartoon back in the 90s. Guess I should find that Alan Moore book.
The Alan Moore book is 6 seperate volumes, and that story really in full goes for about 9, with the artist holding creatives duties after Alan left and still doing a good job.
The stories are interesting and imaginative, but a lot of them are REALLY on the horror side of things. Not super grisly or anything but…. horror stories and psychological stuff. I'm not sure how much it'd be up your alley.
Though they're really not up my alley at all either but it was good, so...
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Never suggest the idea of a female Joker to the manchildren:
https://www.someecards.com/news/news/woman-suggested-female-version-the-joker-batman/?fbclid=IwAR3K4mxBNAFB-RwZeqLVsc-uFgX7NzQb3RD8Py9wgT__1Y7Sn7l_XRlWw_IAnd yes, we know there was a female Joker in Flashpoint, but that wasn't the point this woman was making, just throwing the idea out there.
The stories are interesting and imaginative, but a lot of them are REALLY on the horror side of things. Not super grisly or anything but…. horror stories and psychological stuff. I'm not sure how much it'd be up your alley.
Though they're really not up my alley at all either but it was good, so...
As long as something's well written I'll read it. No, I'm not really into horror stories, but I also really like Hellsing and Silence of the Lambs.
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Never suggest the idea of a female Joker to the manchildren:
https://www.someecards.com/news/news/woman-suggested-female-version-the-joker-batman/?fbclid=IwAR3K4mxBNAFB-RwZeqLVsc-uFgX7NzQb3RD8Py9wgT__1Y7Sn7l_XRlWw_IAnd yes, we know there was a female Joker in Flashpoint, but that wasn't the point this woman was making, just throwing the idea out there.
As long as something's well written I'll read it. No, I'm not really into horror stories, but I also really like Hellsing and Silence of the Lambs.
If these comic universes have virtually limitless parallel timelines and alternate universes why would anyone be surprised by a genderswapped version of any character, or species-swapped, etc.? It should be regarded as a given.
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Swamp Thing already cancelled by the way.
https://thegww.com/breaking-swamp-thing-canceled-after-one-season-at-dc-universe/
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They must be trying to ape on Netflix's gimmick.
Apparently mistakes were made
The initial report claims WarnerMedia executives did not like the direction of the show, leading them to cancel the series. However, Movies.com writer
reports North Carolina promised WarnerMedia a $40 million tax rebate that ended up getting diminished because of a paperwork error. The $40 million would have covered half of the first season's budget, which is estimated to be at $80 million.
The error also reportedly played a factor in the Season 1 production ending early back in April, with the season's episode count trimmed from 13 to 10. Once the error was discovered, WarnerMedia shut down production since the studio would be paying more for the series than it originally thought.
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I liked the episode of Swamp thing I watched
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I was watching the 90's animated series of Batman on ToonCast(amazing channel) yesterday
And at first I thought I only prefer him out of nostalgic views, but then not, not really.
I just can't get along with the emo-sociopath, murdering machine with mental issues Batman that Hollywood can't stop selling us.So, I'm just here, hopeful that Pattinson will be a much more…. human Batman.
pls.
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Who can say? It's up to the actor, but it's also equally up to the director and the script-writers.
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I was watching the 90's animated series of Batman on ToonCast(amazing channel) yesterday
And at first I thought I only prefer him out of nostalgic views, but then not, not really.
I just can't get along with the emo-sociopath, murdering machine with mental issues Batman that Hollywood can't stop selling us.So, I'm just here, hopeful that Pattinson will be a much more…. human Batman.
pls.
Odd how only Nolan seemed to make a Batman that wouldn't kill (directly).
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I prefer Brave and the Bold, but that one is one of the best as well.
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Watchmen
So I know several/many think of the movie as bad of the comic. I am wondering what makes it a bad for you and what makes the different endings problematic to you?
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Watchmen
So I know several/many think of the movie as bad of the comic. I am wondering what makes it a bad for you and what makes the different endings problematic to you?
I haven't read the comic but I can say what I didn't like about the movie. The first time I watched it I felt like it was a completely different movie every 5 minutes. It was much better the second time around but still could have been done a lot better.
The ending annoys me because the heroes ultimately fail and I dislike exercises in futility. Plus when you have an omnipotent and semi-omniscient god who can fix everything it makes no sense that it couldn't have been resolved sooner and more easily. I don't know, maybe I should have read the comic first but with my limited knowledge of the overall lore, there were things I just couldn't look past. I'm definitely no Snyder fan so that doesn't help either.
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The ending annoys me because the heroes ultimately fail and I dislike exercises in futility.
While the comic book technically doesn't end that way (it ends on a cliffhanger) the Doomsday Clock miniseries which essentially is a followup reveals that Ozymandias plan was found out and leads to the problems he was trying to avoid forcing him and some other characters to seek out Dr.Manhattan in the main DC Universe.
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While the comic book technically doesn't end that way (it ends on a cliffhanger) the Doomsday Clock miniseries which essentially is a followup reveals that Ozymandias plan was found out and leads to the problems he was trying to avoid forcing him and some other characters to seek out Dr.Manhattan in the main DC Universe.
There's so many things the allegedly smartest man in the world couldn't predict. Anti-climactic.
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There's so many things the allegedly smartest man in the world couldn't predict. Anti-climactic.
He also couldn't predict him winding up with a inoperable brain tumor:ninja:
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http://i68.tinypic.com/2hx94qf.jpg
He also couldn't predict him winding up with a inoperable brain tumor:ninja:
Or take measures to prevent such things. True geniuses are more proactive than that.
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SpiderMan FFH just reached 1 billion, third in a row with Black Panther and Captain Marvel.
That's what making a successful and working cinematic universe means. Feels bad for Darkseid never getting the chance to try.Oopps, posted on the DC thread… Welp
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I can't imagine what Darkside would have been like in the current DC movie universe. I'm kinda glad they didn't even do a post trailer tease. Also I'm not sure how they would have revealed him and not had it feel either too rushed or too much like the MCU snippets we got of Thanos.
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Once again, Patrick Willems made another amazingly insightful video.
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I can't imagine what Darkside would have been like in the current DC movie universe. I'm kinda glad they didn't even do a post trailer tease. Also I'm not sure how they would have revealed him and not had it feel either too rushed or too much like the MCU snippets we got of Thanos.
A just-as-bland-but-stronger Steppenwolf. No matter how much time they had. He's not the sort you think of as being able to throw out a quip or even deliver a darkly humorous line like Thanos talking about how after all of his impersonal slaughtering of galaxies, he was going to enjoy annihilating Earth…very, very much.
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I haven't read the comic but I can say what I didn't like about the movie. The first time I watched it I felt like it was a completely different movie every 5 minutes. It was much better the second time around but still could have been done a lot better.
The comic had chapter breaks (or individual issues originally) so the format works better there.
The movie really, REALLY needed to restructure things some for movie format and it didn't because Snyder didn't understand the material so he just kept it in the exact same sequence as the book.
The ending annoys me because the heroes ultimately fail and I dislike exercises in futility.
Ozymandius' plan went off without a hitch. He saved the world from nuclear war, AND he got the monstrous god figure to leave the world. The crazy gross anti-social hobo in a mask failed to stop him from saving the world.
Plus when you have an omnipotent and semi-omniscient god who can fix everything it makes no sense that it couldn't have been resolved sooner and more easily.
There were holes in Manhattan's omnipotence. The event surrounding Ozy's plan left a sort of big glaring white space where he couldn't see. And, even though he can basically see into all times at once and can multifocus doing twenty things, his personal perception is still in a straight line. He doesn't realize and understand certain things until he does, he doesn't focus on past or future events until he focuses on them. Sometimes a snippet of "you'll be crying in five minutes" will come to him, but he doesn't exactly know the inbetween that causes it..
The comic explained that better.
I don't know, maybe I should have read the comic first but with my limited knowledge of the overall lore, there were things I just couldn't look past. I'm definitely no Snyder fan so that doesn't help either.
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A fan made a fan art of The Riddler as played by David Tennant, and lots of fans are down for the idea:
https://movieweb.com/the-batman-david-tennant-riddler-fan-art/?fbclid=IwAR08yMaUWkm8ki2rNROPQExfZOY_PIK6fUszRY-dyIpVMWxuQgsGA94fB3gHell, I would love it if David Tennant played The Riddler.
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A fan made a fan art of The Riddler as played by David Tennant, and lots of fans are down for the idea:
https://movieweb.com/the-batman-david-tennant-riddler-fan-art/?fbclid=IwAR08yMaUWkm8ki2rNROPQExfZOY_PIK6fUszRY-dyIpVMWxuQgsGA94fB3gHell, I would love it if David Tennant played The Riddler.
Oh yeah. This has been a thing since before we knew what The Dark Knight Rises was going to be about. Jessica Jones season one made us wonder even more so.
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Is there a different thread for the animated straight-to-DVD films or is this thread made for those too? 'Cause I want to talk about the new one that just came out, Batman: Hush.
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You can use this for all DC movies.
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Cool.
I really, really liked Hush, I thought it was very well-written and had a lot of really great moments. It's kind of funny how the animated films are much more adult in theme and depiction than the live-action adaptations. Beating someone to a bloody pulp, numerous intimate scenes, they've come a long way with portraying the more graphic scenes from the comics. I thought the ending was pretty stupid, in terms of Batman's thought process and Catwoman's reaction to it, but you can't have an entirely happy ending when it comes to Batman so it's not surprising, just disappointing.
I'm not sure I'm keen on the lineup for the next few movies, which are going back to the origins of a few of the heroes (yawn…done to death already...) so I'd rather see things that are more likely to give rise to more new characters, but they're already announced so there's no changing it. I am curious how Justice League Dark: Apokolips War will go, since Darkseid's peeps don't play around and most of the Dark team don't have that formidable of power, at least not based on their own movie. I suppose if Deadman possesses the bodies of some of the strong bad guys and Swamp Thing actually gets involved in the fight instead of just being a portal gatekeeper, then maybe. Guess it depends on what part of Darkseid's army they have to fight.
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What DC animated films are worth seeing? and which would you prioritize?
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What DC animated films are worth seeing? and which would you prioritize?
They can be very hit or miss(especially as of recent) but the great thing about them is the wide variety that have been made over the past decade or so.
A few are set in a version similar to the "New 52' reboot, starting with Justice League War. I honestly am not a fan as a whole of the films set in this continuity.
One of my all time favorites is "Under the Red Hood", which tells the Batman story of the Red Hood. It does a very good job all things considered of getting the complicated comic-booky plot lines and condensing it into a way that works in a film's time. Plus it has, in my mind, one of the most underrated performances of the Joker(voiced here by John DiMagio.
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They can be very hit or miss(especially as of recent) but the great thing about them is the wide variety that have been made over the past decade or so.
A few are set in a version similar to the "New 52' reboot, starting with Justice League War. I honestly am not a fan as a whole of the films set in this continuity.
One of my all time favorites is "Under the Red Hood", which tells the Batman story of the Red Hood. It does a very good job all things considered of getting the complicated comic-booky plot lines and condensing it into a way that works in a film's time. Plus it has, in my mind, one of the most underrated performances of the Joker(voiced here by John DiMagio.
That's one of the few I've actually watched
! I absolutely love when Jason asks him why he didn't kill Joker and says "would it really be that hard" and Batman says "No! It would be to damn easy, I think about doing every day but If I gave in I'd end up losing myself"
! I absolutely love that so we'll done, so true to Batman -
What DC animated films are worth seeing? and which would you prioritize?
I always recommend Batman:- Assault on Arkham.
It's basically the movie Suicide Squad should have been.But I think all the older ones are worth a watch, it's after Flashpoint Paradox that things start going downhill.
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I always recommend Batman:- Assault on Arkham.
It's basically the movie Suicide Squad should have been.But I think all the older ones are worth a watch, it's after Flashpoint Paradox that things start going downhill.
While I agree that Flashpoint Paradox was the best of the bunch, I like pretty much each of the DC Animated Movie Universe movies. It's like the animated DC version of the MCU. I like that they insert Damian Wayne into this universe and his evolution into Robin despite his upbringing. He fits into the Teen Titans very well and I thought it was a good move replacing Cyborg in their team with Blue Beetle since they're so similar in terms of abilities and Cyborg is part of the Justice League despite his own youth.
While I would like them to have their continuity and the sequencing of each film in the universe's timeline be a little clearer, I've got very few complaints about the DCAMU. Lots of fine voice talent, good storylines, amazing action scenes, great character interactions, being able to entertain without a lot of humor (again, the animated stuff even seems to have a better time of that than what the early DCEU was going for to try and not imitate Marvel too closely).
The only thing I can really think of that bugs me is, we got a whole movie about Aquaman joining the League but then when Death of Superman came out, their ranks seemed to have inexplicably grown to include both Martian Manhunter and Hawkman (but not Hawkgirl). Then in Batman: Hush we meet Batgirl who seems to have joined the team for no explored reason (minimal as her part in the movie is…she's just kind 'there' for the most minor of reasons). That could be a lot better served, I feel, having her, and the new Superboy introduced in Reign of the Supermen, being shown as part of the Teen Titans. Not sure how the studio decides what characters get a movie in what order but maybe the Titans' DVDs didn't sell as well and they're not wanting to let them headline for a while. There are at least two origin movies coming up in the series over the next year (Wonder Woman and Superman) and a sequel to the Justice League Dark movie but I'd hope to see another Suicide Squad and/or Teen Titans movie announced somewhere in there. Time will tell...
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The recent Batman x TMNT movie was fun, too. Not quite as good as the comic, but I really enjoyed it.n
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While I agree that Flashpoint Paradox was the best of the bunch, I like pretty much each of the DC Animated Movie Universe movies. It's like the animated DC version of the MCU. I like that they insert Damian Wayne into this universe and his evolution into Robin despite his upbringing. He fits into the Teen Titans very well and I thought it was a good move replacing Cyborg in their team with Blue Beetle since they're so similar in terms of abilities and Cyborg is part of the Justice League despite his own youth.
While I would like them to have their continuity and the sequencing of each film in the universe's timeline be a little clearer, I've got very few complaints about the DCAMU. Lots of fine voice talent, good storylines, amazing action scenes, great character interactions, being able to entertain without a lot of humor (again, the animated stuff even seems to have a better time of that than what the early DCEU was going for to try and not imitate Marvel too closely).
The only thing I can really think of that bugs me is, we got a whole movie about Aquaman joining the League but then when Death of Superman came out, their ranks seemed to have inexplicably grown to include both Martian Manhunter and Hawkman (but not Hawkgirl). Then in Batman: Hush we meet Batgirl who seems to have joined the team for no explored reason (minimal as her part in the movie is…she's just kind 'there' for the most minor of reasons). That could be a lot better served, I feel, having her, and the new Superboy introduced in Reign of the Supermen, being shown as part of the Teen Titans. Not sure how the studio decides what characters get a movie in what order but maybe the Titans' DVDs didn't sell as well and they're not wanting to let them headline for a while. There are at least two origin movies coming up in the series over the next year (Wonder Woman and Superman) and a sequel to the Justice League Dark movie but I'd hope to see another Suicide Squad and/or Teen Titans movie announced somewhere in there. Time will tell...
Oh yeah, the line is still very watchable, but I feel the overall quality just isn't as good as it was in the early years, particularly the Batman films, so far their Damien Wayne fanboying ruined the first couple he was in, then we've had a trio of mediocre adaptations plus the absolute awfulness that was Batman and Harley Quinn.
I don't really keep up with the latest info on these anymore, but I don't think either of the upcoming Wonder Woman and Superman films are really origin films. Wonder Womans seemed to be about her returning home to protect it from some of her rogues gallery, with flashbacks about why she left in the first place (at least going by the trailer), and Supermans is going to be _Red Son_ which is basically what if Superman was a Communist.
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Oh yeah, the line is still very watchable, but I feel the overall quality just isn't as good as it was in the early years, particularly the Batman films, so far their Damien Wayne fanboying ruined the first couple he was in, then we've had a trio of mediocre adaptations plus the absolute awfulness that was Batman and Harley Quinn.
I don't really keep up with the latest info on these anymore, but I don't think either of the upcoming Wonder Woman and Superman films are really origin films. Wonder Womans seemed to be about her returning home to protect it from some of her rogues gallery, with flashbacks about why she left in the first place (at least going by the trailer), and Supermans is going to be _Red Son_ which is basically what if Superman was a Communist.
Well Batman and Harley Quinn, The Killing Joke, Justice League Vs. The Fatal Five, etc., aren't part of the DCAMU continuity, so at least the continuously running universe is one with a fairly consistent quality. Damian did seem to take a huge backseat in Teen Titans: The Judas Contract so I'm wondering if his significance in that universe has run its course. But that's why I'd have liked to see Superboy and Batgirl join the Titans and see how that dynamic would affect the others. Maybe in a few years.
There's already a trailer for Wonder Woman Bloodlines? Holy crap, I need to check that out.
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A remake of The King of Comedy starring Joaquin Phoenix and also Robert DeNiro is here and Martin Scorsese is involved and what the fuck
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@Cyan:
A remake of The King of Comedy starring Joaquin Phoenix and also Robert DeNiro is here and Martin Scorsese is involved and what the fuck
Joker by way of King of Comedy/Taxi Driver is fine by me.
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It's hard to tell whether his rise to supervillaindom (holy crap, that's a word? There's no red underline under it when I typed it…) takes place before or after the appearance of Batman in Gotham. I wonder how that timing works out here.