That's uhm…. that's actually a Punisher quote. That the meme stole.
And wasn't that line from the Punisher in Daredevil season 2 where he's like, "You're one bad day away from being me" stolen from a Batman comic or something?
That's uhm…. that's actually a Punisher quote. That the meme stole.
And wasn't that line from the Punisher in Daredevil season 2 where he's like, "You're one bad day away from being me" stolen from a Batman comic or something?
And wasn't that line from the Punisher in Daredevil season 2 where he's like, "You're one bad day away from being me" stolen from a Batman comic or something?
That's from The Killing Joke, where the entire premise is that the Joker thinks he can turn Commissioner Gordon evil by giving him the worst day of his life.
Joker Teaser
Looks great.
Kinda funny how different DC's two movies are this year lol
Was there anything about Joker having a deformed body? Because that torso…Christ!
That looks great. Without a doubt picked the best actor for the part.
The director has called it a tragedy, and I hope it delivers on that. It absolutely needs to have a good ending. Doesn't have to lead anything, doesn't need to wink at you that this will be Batman's greatest enemy or something, just have a point.
Still see people saying Joker doesn't need an origin story. Don't care. I want a good movie.
Joker Teaser
Looks great.
Kinda funny how different DC's two movies are this year lol
That felt like a complete trailer rather than a teaser.
That aside I'm cautiously optimistic.
I'm totally up for a remake of The King of Comedy starring Joaquin Phoenix as the Joker.
I like the trailer's vibe. I could see that guy become a creepy clown.
Was there anything about Joker having a deformed body? Because that torso…Christ!
He tends to be pretty slim.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Still see people saying Joker doesn't need an origin story. Don't care. I want a good movie.
Meh. I don't like the joker having A origin story(which why I liked that in the dark knight he gives different ones).
But
1- He already pretty much has one since killing Joke exist and is pretty much presented and accepted as real thing.
2- It doesn't mean you can't make a good solo origin story. The same way Sups shouldn't kill but you can make an enjoyable what if about him doing just that(injustice).
Was there anything about Joker having a deformed body? Because that torso…Christ!
It's like an oversized man-boob hernia.
Would have liked to have seen some gunshots or explosions from him post-breakdown but I guess that's for the next trailer. Gotta say, not big on dramas so I'm a little tentative about whether I'll want to see this one, especially if it's not part of any universe that's going to be expanded upon.
I'm getting Maleficent vibes from the trailer. I don't have a problem giving Joker an origin story but trying to make a straight-up evil character into a misunderstood anti-villain rubs me the wrong way unless done right.
I'm getting Maleficent vibes from the trailer. I don't have a problem giving Joker an origin story but trying to make a straight-up evil character into a misunderstood anti-villain rubs me the wrong way unless done right.
My problem with it is I don't really want to know what turns the Joker into the Joker. He's such a malevolently monstrous villain I don't really want to feel bad for him by seeing his descent, when I already know what's going to come after. Like with Hannibal Lecter; I didn't want to know what happened in Hannibal Rising to make him the man he was, it was enough seeing him in action in Silence of the Lambs.
I love this trailer, but I thought the trailer for Suicide Squard was good too. I feel burned.
My distrust aside, that trailer does look amazing. I hope it goes right.
My problem with it is I don't really want to know what turns the Joker into the Joker. He's such a malevolently monstrous villain I don't really want to feel bad for him by seeing his descent, when I already know what's going to come after. Like with Hannibal Lecter; I didn't want to know what happened in Hannibal Rising to make him the man he was, it was enough seeing him in action in Silence of the Lambs.
I also agree with this. If we assume the people in charge of this movie feel the same, I wonder what kind of movie we have left?
It does feel kinda weird to have a major villain origin movie be sympathetic. Especially now when in real life a lot of guys are trying to make their villainous debuts over weak logic and pity parties.
That looks great. Without a doubt picked the best actor for the part.
The director has called it a tragedy, and I hope it delivers on that. It absolutely needs to have a good ending. Doesn't have to lead anything, doesn't need to wink at you that this will be Batman's greatest enemy or something, just have a point.
Still see people saying Joker doesn't need an origin story. Don't care. I want a good movie.
Thats pretty much my exact feelings as well. After getting burnt out on 20+ MCU movies I don't really crave comic-faithfulness and interconnectivity anymore, I just want self-contained narratives. Now, if they make it some sort of "Nihilism is the way to go/ Joker is pretty awesome" story then…
Meh. I don't like the joker having A origin story(which why I liked that in the dark knight he gives different ones)
Technically Burton's Batman's Joker (too many 's I think) is a origin story, no? Before his face is disfigured he's just a simple mafioso (?). Only after does he start doing some extraordinary weird shit.
My problem with it is I don't really want to know what turns the Joker into the Joker. He's such a malevolently monstrous villain I don't really want to feel bad for him by seeing his descent, when I already know what's going to come after. Like with Hannibal Lecter; I didn't want to know what happened in Hannibal Rising to make him the man he was, it was enough seeing him in action in Silence of the Lambs.
If this was, say, Harry Potter where there is only one version of these characters, sure. But this is just one version of Joker. One version where he does have backstory. And, unless this feeds into Matt Reeve's Batman, this version will it, a self-contained character study.
Hannibal Rising wasn't good. If it was good, don't think anyone would complain then.
@Daz:
Thats pretty much my exact feelings as well. After getting burnt out on 20+ MCU movies I don't really crave comic-faithfulness and interconnectivity anymore, I just want self-contained narratives
Exactly. Which is why I'm dismayed that Marvel is getting the X-men etc. And Blade they are already got a while back. Wtf they gonna do with that?
Technically Burton's Batman's Joker (too many 's I think) is a origin story, no? Before his face is disfigured he's just a simple mafioso (?). Only after does he start doing some extraordinary weird shit.
It definitely has one in it even if it's not the focus. Like I say, I don't mind it as long as it doesn't become something definite like Krypton exploding or parents getting killed in alley.
But I am excited by this movie. It just seems fascinating in Nightcrawler(the movie) kind of way.
We don't need a Joker origin story to appreciate the character, but a character like the Joker opens up a lot of interesting solo story potential on its own. His core traits above all else are that he's an insane domestic terrorist with a clown gimmick. One of the simplest character bibles ever. Everything else, even the borderline-romantic Batman obsession, can be kept, altered, or scrapped depending on what creative vision someone has.
His only consistent character motivation across all of his appearances is madness. that is such a generic fluid concept that can interpreted in dozens of different interesting ways. He can be a failed comedian who fell into a chemical vat, a murder clown who kills Robin, trying to get a copyright on smiling fish he poisoned, you can do almost anything with this guy, robbing money from banks until he gets scared by the IRS to return it, etc. And those can all still fit as "Joker stories" because a character who commits crimes because of insanity is such a generic malleable foundation. That is why an origin is both unnecessary yet also ripe with potential.
So a character drama origin movie is an easily understandable route to take the character. If it's written, shot, and acted well, all that really matters is if you are open to a new interpretation or want to stick with a particular version.
It does feel kinda weird to have a major villain origin movie be sympathetic. Especially now when in real life a lot of guys are trying to make their villainous debuts over weak logic and pity parties.
It's always possible to have a sympathetic origin story for a villain but still acknowledge that this sympathetic character turned into an awful piece of filth, becoming that awful piece of filth is at least partially their own fault, and being an awful piece of filth is insane and not cool to begin with.
Unfortunately, lots of creators like to go fully into a romanticization angle to gullible people think it's deep to be a scumbag if your past involves self-pity.
@Daz:
Thats pretty much my exact feelings as well. After getting burnt out on 20+ MCU movies I don't really crave comic-faithfulness and interconnectivity anymore, I just want self-contained narratives. Now, if they make it some sort of "Nihilism is the way to go/ Joker is pretty awesome" story then…
I personally want good self-contained SERIES in particular. Not prioritizing the crossovers above all else and doing solo films like an improvised checklist with barely any connectivity between installments. Actually planning out character/story arcs over a solo film series and only needing to watch that solo film series to comprehend and appreciate the plot (not that shared universe elements can't tie in but I don't want that to be a beholden necessity). Rather than winging every installment and telling the screenwriter "do this hero, this villain, this crowd pleasing tone, this shared universe reference, and THEN you can do whatever you want."
This is a random tangent, but what I would really love for this film is to explore mental health awareness and the mental health industry's flaws. Go all in on showing how Gotham as a city cultivates insanity. Rather than having Arkham Asylum only exist as a revolving door plot device for recurring flamboyant criminals, have that building's constant incompetence/negligence be a focal point of the story. This movie is attempting to apparently portray Thomas Wayne as a corrupt 1%er, so go full on in the sociopolitical commentary for a film like this. Since this movie is a grounded drama story then there's a lot of ground to explore here.
Batman as a series likes to have its cake and eat it too by having colorful quirky villains but trying to sound deep by saying they're poor mentally unstable, but you can't really do both of those things without breaking immersion in how they commits crimes over and over again; and implying that insane people are criminals who can't ever change as a consequence. Which is the one thing that makes Batman's no killing rule look so stupid to begin with, because nothing ever seems to change with how awful Gotham's status-quo is. Although that's also a natural result of the series being decades old.
Shazam is so good that it makes me hate Man of Steel even more for misfiring so badly.
Shazam is definitely pretty fun. It's a bit simplistic in places and the end fight goes on for ages, but it's still highly enjoyable. Lots of great gags.
I also agree with this. If we assume the people in charge of this movie feel the same, I wonder what kind of movie we have left?
I don't know why we'd assume that, their motivation is money so they're just throwing out one of their popular characters. I just hope they don't blow it like Sony did with every Marvel property they had before Venom and Spider-Verse.
Exactly. Which is why I'm dismayed that Marvel is getting the X-men etc. And Blade they are already got a while back. Wtf they gonna do with that?
If they hadn't already all been canned, I would have said a Netflix series like the Defenders and all those.
Bob gives some old Shazam info if you need it:
Shazam is probably the DCEU's best movie and is easily up there with the best DC movies ever made like The Dark Knight and Donner Superman.
It's a genuinely great movie that is fun, but still emotionally weighty in all the right ways. A relatable and sypmathetic main character, who had major conflict while still being able to be kind, uplifting and funny at times.
They managed to do all of this while still staying true to the characters and mythos, even if admittedly it takes the most from the New52 relaunch, there's still a lot of Golden Age nods and fun in there.
This movie was magical. I absolutely loved it. I left the theater smiling ear to ear.
GO GET 'IM BATMAN!!
Spoilers because I'm gonna gush about spoilers:
! THEY DID THE MARVEL FAMILY!! OH MY GOD!! I thought that was gonna be sequel stuff, but nope. BAM! MARVEL FAMILY! Urge to cosplay Mary Marvel rising!!
! Also, I was fully expecting Black Adam to be the post credits tease… Mr. Freaking Mind blew me away. Was not expecting that. They are embracing the silly comicbookeyness of it and I freaking LOVE IT!!
! Also, tigers appear A LOT in this. Stuffed tiger, tiger on his backpack, tiger emblem holding up his cape... that was a Tawky Tawny reference right? That had to be a Tawky Tawny reference.
Wow, I expected the film to be alright, maybe even good, but not as great as it apparently is! Now I'm really excited :) Gonna see it this Saturday!
Saw Shazam today. Personally thought it was alright, not great.
! The film does really well at portraying non-abusive foster care, and none of Billy's foster siblings got forced in to the point of being annoying. Freddy did well in his role. It was a lot of legitimate emotion that actually managed to complement/contrast the superhero premise pretty well.
! But I didn't care much for the villain. I'm all for having a super serious villain in a movie with a more lighthearted hero, and to a degree I did appreciate that he wasn't beaten with a dance-off. But his presence in the movie just felt extra, what with his ONLY motivation being to get Shazam's powers because of a childhood grudge. It created zero chemistry between him and Shazam, and them having essentially the same powers definitely didn't help. The one unique power Thad did have I felt wasn't used to its full potential, though in reality I'm not sure any of the powers were. It felt like rather than have extended, fast-paced action sequences we would get the characters using some part of their abilities before stopping to do something else, and overall the fights just felt extremely drawn out and forgettable…which was not great considering how long the climax was.
! Overall, I liked this film about as much as Captain Marvel, although I felt like Capt. Marvel's climax was handled better.
! Mr. Freaking Mind blew me away. Was not expecting that.
! Mr. Mind is shown at the beginning of the film when Sivana arrives at the Rock of Eternity and is taking stock of Thad from the start.
@Kaido:
! his ONLY motivation being to get Shazam's powers because of a childhood grudge.
! Being a petty dick is central to Sivana's character though. Giving him motivations beyond feeling underappreciated and really hating Captain Marvel turns him into somebody else.
! Sivana invented being a mad scientist, give him some slack.
! Mr. Mind is shown at the beginning of the film when Sivana arrives at the Rock of Eternity and is taking stock of Thad from the start.
! I caught that, but I thought it was an easter egg. "Oh ha, they stuck a caterpillar in the Rock of Eternity. Ha, that's a reference to Mr. Mind." I had no idea it was setting him up for them to actually say "Ok, the villain we are hyping for the next movie is a literal talking caterpillar."
! lol just lol if your not hyped to see The Rock interact with an evil talking caterpillar
Gonna side with the majority and say that Shazam was friggin' great.
! Totally didn't expect the Marvel Family to show up, so that was a wonderful surprise.
Yeah, this movie is better than expected. It balanced it's expectations, kept it simple, and threw in a bunch of nice surprises along the way. I only hope it does well, and maybe revives this franchise, cause after watching this movie I'm ready for more.
! -The Marvel Family was a nice surprise. I expected them to set it up here, and maybe use it later, but not within the same movie!
! -The special effects were good enough considering the scale of this movie. I also loved seeing such a larger than life superhero in a gritty city setting.
! -Mr. Mind was a nice surprise. I forgot he existed (I have limited knowledge of Shazam), then when I saw the talking caterpillar with a voicebox it dawned on me what the movie was foreshadowing, cause I saw him in related DC cartoons.
! -Oh hey, Superman out of nowhere! I wonder if he'll be played by the same actor, assuming they finish this scene in another movie?
Yup, just saw the movie and had a great time. I think I enjoyed it more than Aquaman and Captain Marvel because it felt a little less by-the-numbers and had its own individual tone. There is probably also no debate that Zachary Levi was a great fit for the title role. I also really liked the actor who portrayed Freddy, he installed him with a lot of personality.
! I'm not the biggest expert on comic book characters and really didn't know anything at all about Shazam except that it was about a boy gaining the ability to turn into a Superman-like hero, so I had no idea that his siblings would transform into superheroes, too. And though I didn't know the slightest bit about him, evil caterpillar alien at the end made me grin from ear to ear and made me immediately want to see him as the main villain in a sequel.
! I just read up on Dr. Sivana - this interpretation of the character seems like a pretty big departure from the comics, where he is mostly an evil scientist, not a super-powered being in any fashion. What do those of you who knew the character from the comics before seeing the move think of this adaptation?
! Mr. Mind is just fantastic in every way and one of those characters who makes everybody else around him better as well. The only way to use him properly is to totally embrace the utter insanity of the Fawcett era comics and not be too serious with him.
!
! I do prefer the classic design to the more recent, puppy-sized version though. It reminds me, of all things, P-chan.
!
! Far as Sivana goes, the film version of him is based more on fairly recent comics. I miss the utter lunacy of his plots in this but I still think this is a pretty good adaptation.
! That said, I do hope the next film has him doing things like walking through walls by solving math equations.
I don't think I would have enjoyed it more if I had been Billy's age when seeing it even though you'd think that would be the perfect age for it. But I loved the humor, really felt for the villain, liked the characters who actually got a decent amount of screen time (rarely is there a cast of young people who does that good a job of acting), and thought the action was really great. Telling the superhero story through the lens of a kid is a really great change of pace. Also as a former foster youth myself I really identified with Billy's struggle. I'll never know who my father is so there's that but I think Billy handles it poorly, and while I'm glad he gets at least some kind of resolution, I feel that was also a little poorly written (like you kind of understood it the minute you saw the beginning scene of him and his mom).
Santa Claus was really a standout character, I have to say. Really hope he gets at least a nod in the next one.
Question about the mid-credits scene:
! I know the caterpillar thing was seen inside the Shazam chambers at first but when it was in the prison cell of Sivana at the end, I wasn't sure what to make of it-I think it looked oddly mechanical so that raises even further questions about how it got into those chambers if it wasn't a magical creature. At first I thought Black Adam was just going to pop into his cell and spring him out of there but my friends who saw it with me said it was probably the Injustice Society trying to recruit him, though again, that doesn't make sense unless they already have someone versed in magic (in which case why do they need that depowered guy anyway?), and we don't know who Luthor has on his team apart from Deathstroke.
Question about the mid-credits scene:
! I know the caterpillar thing was seen inside the Shazam chambers at first but when it was in the prison cell of Sivana at the end, I wasn't sure what to make of it-I think it looked oddly mechanical so that raises even further questions about how it got into those chambers if it wasn't a magical creature. At first I thought Black Adam was just going to pop into his cell and spring him out of there but my friends who saw it with me said it was probably the Injustice Society trying to recruit him, though again, that doesn't make sense unless they already have someone versed in magic (in which case why do they need that depowered guy anyway?), and we don't know who Luthor has on his team apart from Deathstroke.
! Mr. Mind (that's the caterpillar's name) is not mechanical. It's an alien worm. The only mechanical thing about it is the voice box around its neck. And, as far as I can tell, there's nothing to suggest that Mr. Mind was recruiting Sivana for the Injustice Society. He's probably just manipulating him for his own ends.
! There's too many of those kind of things in the DC universe. Starro, Brainiac, all that mind-control jazz. I would have preferred Black Adam be there, even if only in the shadows so they didn't have to settle on an actor yet despite Dwayne Johnson supposedly having been the ideal and eager choice.
Finally saw Shazam. I'm with Kaido not he movie only being alright. Although it shines best when it's about kids dicking around superpowers and Billy
! trying to find his mom. It's serviceable otherwise. Although I did like the
! Captain Marvel Family surprise too. I didn't expect that to happen so soon. Although it didn't amount to much payoff besides more action scenes and mediocre gags.
But that first after-credits has me the most excited for a superhero movie sequel than I have ever been in years. And speaking of the credits, I think this film might have the best superhero credit animation I've ever seen. It deserves more acknowledgment and praise for how fun and lively it is.
! I just read up on Dr. Sivana - this interpretation of the character seems like a pretty big departure from the comics, where he is mostly an evil scientist, not a super-powered being in any fashion. What do those of you who knew the character from the comics before seeing the move think of this adaptation?
! I'm actually disappointed that Dr. Sivana isn't a mad scientist. I get that Warner Bros seems to think that superhero movies need to have climax fights against super powered villains as evident by how shoehorned Ares' twist appearance is in Wonder Woman. But Black Adam is already Shazam's physical match. He doesn't need another guy to fight who can punch hard, fly, and shoot lightning. A villain who tries to outsmart Shazam instead of overpowering him helps diversify future conflicts if we're getting sequel movies and even a Black Adam spinoff. If Sivana just controlled the demons as minions instead of being their host body to become a DBZ villain this all smooths out better.
! Then there is how Sivana's motivation for taking Billy's powers and going as far as killing people on the way feels bland and forced. He already pretty much got everything he wanted from the seven demons alone. I get that having the powers on your own instead of relying on demons is better, but where do you go from "my parents abused me and I'm going to kill them to exact vengeance" to "hey demon buddies, kill my abusive dad's innocent co-workers and all these other people who get in my way."
! Even his antagonism towards Shazam alone feels so empty. If he saw all the dumb BS Shazam did to show off like almost killing everyone on the bus, realized he was a brat that is more unworthy of the powers than Sivana was when he got tested, and THEN started fighting him, he'd be a lot more understandable. Still petty like in the comics, but not a bland cardboard cutout either.
! Setting up your villain with a sympathetic backstory but then having them only be unnecessarily douchy in present time with no redeeming traits or a meaningful point makes that sympathetic backstory pointless. If you cut out the origin story and boardroom slaughter scenes and replace them with exposition from the wizard that Sivana failed the test and wants his birthright, he is still the exact same character with less underwhelming inconsistency.
! I don't think any superhero film has tried to do a mad scientist since Doc Ock in Spider-Man 2. The most we get are small roles/cameos like Arnim Zola in the Cap films and businessmen that dabble with tech or alien stuff but aren't super smart like the Iron man movie villains and Eisenberg's Lex Luthor. If they have the balls to tease Mr. Mind then I don't think the mad scientist trope sounding too wacky for live-action is a valid excuse.
! BUT, since the after-credits scene teases Sivana and Mr. Mind teaming up, Sivana can hopefully become more mad scientist-y. And hopefully a better character in general, at least while hilariously interacting with Mr. Mind.
Funny thing, I saw this movie a second time. It doesn't hold up as well, but then again it's not really that kind of movie (as opposed to Infinity War and Endgame with their dozens of details and characters). This is still a film that keeps things focused, and covers its flaws with good comedy and some clever ideas.
I will say, and I forget if I said this last post, this movie feels like it sets up a DC Universe better than the previous entries. It helps having normal down to earth people talk about these other characters beforehand. In hindsight, starting small would have benefited them.
I wonder if we'll ever get an Atom movie now…
I wonder if we'll ever get an Atom movie now…
Unlikely, I keep hoping for a Blue Beetle movie so we can get a hispanic hero.
So, Robert Pattinson is gonna be the new Batman!
https://variety.com/2019/film/news/robert-pattinson-batman-matt-reeves-bruce-wayne-dc-comics-1203125473/ You know what, I'm happy with this choice.
If you told me 10 years ago that he would be playing Batman, I would have laughed in your face, but Pattinson has since went on to do a lot of amazing roles post Twilight.
Seriously, go check out his performances in Good Time, High Life, Lost City of Z, Damsel and The Rover. The dude has some serious acting chops!
Anyway, I cannot wait for all the cold takes from people bitching about this casting because he played a sparkly vampire in a movie series for teenage girls that one time.
Honestly at this point into all of the Jokers and Batmen, my natural reaction is just to wait and see.
I get the people that will wanna dump on it for Twilight or whatever movie they saw that they think means he can't play Bruce.
But if you old me the dude from A Knights Tale would be one of the most influential Jokers before TDK, I would have laughed.
So lets see where this goes.
Will be awkward to see Pattinson with black hair if they have him dye it and even more awkward if he doesn't (Val Kilmer didn't and neither did George Clooney but still).
Umm . . . . . I guess I'll give him benefit of the doubt.
Well…I guess he looks the part of Bruce anyway.
And I don't fault the guy for being in the Twilight movies. He did what any sane actor would do; star in a bunch of high-profile movies that should, by all accounts, boost his career. So I'm perfectly willing to see how good (or bad) a job he does as Batman. Of course, I don't really have an opinion on the guy as an actor.
As for the DCEU itself, I mean...who knows what kind of standing they'll be in once this movie comes out.
Yeah, you can't really fault him that much as an actor when the scripts he's given are shit to begin with.
I love it. Once in a while you'll see these lists like "Top 20 actors who should play Batman" and it's always the same tiring group of people.
He's shown himself to be a great actor, proper age, and more than looks like a Bruce.
He does not cut a good profile.
welp, desperate times require desperate decisions I guess.
I just hope he starts working out like right now, otherwise he would look puny besides Ant-man.
After his performance in Damsel, I'd personally rather see him as a villain than Batman butu, well, whatever. The casting is only really going to matter if Warner Brothers learned their lesson after Aquaman and Shazam were well-received unlike the tire fires Snyder was putting out.
After his performance in Damsel, I'd personally rather see him as a villain than Batman butu, well, whatever. The casting is only really going to matter if Warner Brothers learned their lesson after Aquaman and Shazam were well-received unlike the tire fires Snyder was putting out.
Yeah, who'd have thought making COMIC book movies FUNNY would be a good thing? Hell, even the Nolan trilogy of Batman movies had a sense of humor that worked well for a dark hero. But still, it's not Snyder's fault (or is it????) that the studios went immediately from Man of Steel to BvS rather than giving Batman his own solo film reboot as part of the DCEU. That alone is worth 99 problems of its own. Getting a different director for that Batman reboot would probably also have changed things up quite a bit and not given Snyder so much creative control and probably made things all the better for the connected films from that point. I'd like to be able to glimpse a 'What If' universe where that happened.