i dunno if this was discussed before but i was wondering if tom was still alive and if he is then wat the probability u guys think that franky will meet him again
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he is 99.9% dead ,if oda gone crazy?he will appear again
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I'm not so sure of this either way myself. If Tom were alive it would be obviously different from how Oda has done his tragic past stories so far. This isn't neccessarily a bad thing though as I feel just using the same formula over and over gets stale after a while.
My personal feeling is that Tom is dead, but I wouldn't be terribly shocked if he were to resurface at Eneas Lobby as a shell of his former enormous self. If he were to come back alive, I'd think it'd make for a great story if he were to maybe sacrifice his life in some way for the good guys. We'd get a pretty intense moment and probably a super-pissed Franky which would be great, but I doubt Oda would break his rule of not killing people except for in the flashbacks. This is why I think Tom is dead because if he were to live, it would kind of cheapen Franky's flashback.
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How would that be different from what Oda usually does? You forget he's the same person that still keeps his characters alive even after they've been shocked with 20,000,000 volts.
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the reason i ask is THEY NEVR SHOW TOM DYING (at least from wat i remember) they shoot him with tranq darts and the judge says the orders changed from execution to being held at enies lobby…it doesnt even imply that he died...thats y i think they might meet up with him there....maybe...
(if anyone can show me where tom dies then ill shut up about this :P)
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Originally posted by minnatrix@Jul 16 2005, 01:31 AM
How would that be different from what Oda usually does? You forget he's the same person that still keeps his characters alive even after they've been shocked with 20,000,000 volts.
[snapback]90191[/snapback]It's different in regards to character flashbacks. Kuina is dead. Bellmere is dead. Hiluluk is dead. If Tom were to come back alive, then that would be clearly different.
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Originally posted by mugiwara+Jul 15 2005, 09:40 PM–>QUOTE(mugiwara @ Jul 15 2005, 09:40 PM)
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Originally posted by Kiden4911+Jul 16 2005, 01:42 AM–>QUOTE(Kiden4911 @ Jul 16 2005, 01:42 AM) _> Originally posted by mugiwara@Jul 15 2005, 09:40 PM
How would that be different from what Oda usually does? You forget he's the same person that still keeps his characters alive even after they've been shocked with 20,000,000 volts.
[snapback]90191[/snapback]
It's different in regards to character flashbacks. Kuina is dead. Bellmere is dead. Hiluluk is dead. If Tom were to come back alive, then that would be clearly different.
[snapback]90196[/snapback]u forget that sef is still alive even though hes in a flashbak with sanji
[snapback]90198[/snapback]That's not my point. He was never meant to have died. All the others who were meant to have died stayed dead. If Tom came back he would break that tradition, though I do agree that since we never actually see Tom die then there is a chance he may come back._
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I doubt he's dead, he knows how to make Pluton so the government wouldn't want him dead.
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We had this discussion before already and I was one of those guys who wished that Tom-san wasn´t alive anymore.
However, ever since I brought the theory into another discussion myself that Franky spent the 200 million Berry from the Strawhats on something that he will use for a Eneas Lobby assault I don´t know what to think anymore.
To me it makes sense that Franky spent his money on something for that cause. The Franky Family is wacko enough to go with the Strawhats towards Eneas Lobby. Maybe they are wacko enough because they´ve prepared for this thing ever since the FF was founded.
Other then that the Square Sisters and Zanbei appear to have shipbuilding skills (interpretation from Oda´s SBS) just like Franky obviously has them, but they all chosed to become dismantlers. May the reason for it be that they all like Franky looked up to Tom-san and it pains their carpenter´s heart to what the WG did to Tom? Maybe they all want to make the Government pay for what it did to their idol.Or maybe they are convinced that he is still alive and therefore they want to save him. As I said, I wish that Tom was executed years ago because the whole point of getting him was that the WG doesn´t tolerate lending help towards the Pirate King. But if there´s any truth in the paragraph I´ve just wrote before then I don´t know what to think of Tom-san´s current status. :mellow:
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My opinion hasn't changed since the last debate. They never showed him dead but just tranquilized (that guy needs a lof of tranquilizing before throwing a towel to the corner anyway). If I remember correctly Tom was even breathing as we saw him lieing on the train. So, until proven otherwise he's fine and alive for me, well, at least alive. Whether he was executed later on, I don't know but it's quite possible. Now, it's quite possible he's still alive too. In the bottom of the sea though, this could be the very reason why Impel Down was introduced, plus the Government would waste a pretty major resource if they would kill him. Anyway, can't wait to see a thin Tom after all this years in the prison. I have been thinking too that Franky somehow using the money on saving Tom would make a good excuse
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i'd like to see tom at eneas lobby and even maybe join luffy's crew :D afterall him and luffy sound like theyll b good buddies (judging on franky's memories of tom)
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Originally posted by da_pingunator@Jul 16 2005, 06:36 AM
i'd like to see tom at eneas lobby and even maybe join luffy's crew :D afterall him and luffy sound like theyll b good buddies (judging on franky's memories of tom)
[snapback]90358[/snapback]I don't think he'd join Luffy's crew. Most of Luffy's crew consists of once apprentices or successors, so if there's gonna be a new crew member, it has to be 99.9% an apprentice of Tom. I've been contemplating the possibilities of Tom repairing the Going Merry, since Tom's supposed to be the best shipwright so his skill should exceed those of any shipwrights in One Piece. Some of you may think this thinking is somewhat flawed because Going Merry was dropped into the ocean, but everything that happens in One Piece is somewhat miraculous, so Going Merry probably survived.
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nah i think that ships gone… oda probs got rid of it once and for all cos maybe hes bored of drawing it :P well either way i just sed id like to see tom join not tom should join. well we cant draw conclusons yet, oda may surprise us all and make iceburg go :blink:
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If Tom is alive Franky probably will join the strawhats
It would be great if Tom was alive, then Tom, Franky and Iceburg would build the best ship of the One Piece world to the strawhats
Maybe the W.G. locked Tom way in a dark underground and forced him to tell them what he knows about Pluton
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Originally posted by Darkariel@Jul 17 2005, 01:07 AM
It would be great if Tom was alive, then Tom, Franky and Iceburg would build the best ship of the One Piece world to the strawhats
[snapback]90647[/snapback]Well, I consider that a bad idea. Tom already created his best work. Now it is time for his student to build something and surpass his teacher. The entire effect of this would be destroyed if Tom would aid by building the Strawhats "new" ship.
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yeh i agree with ivotas, i mean being kept in prison for like 20 years after building the best ship…. i think you would of learnt ur lesson by now <_<
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I think there's a chance that Tom could be alive. CP9 mentioned that the government would try to get all of Robin's knowledge and expertise, instead of executing her immediately. Considering Tom's skills, the government may have kept him alive in hopes that they could use him for various projects.
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yeh im sure he alive whether hed b 3/4 dead or maybe even building ships for CP9 who knows… :blink: but yeh id say he'll definitely b alive but then agin... oda can surprise us all by saying that cp9 killed him
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the manga did show tom is dead ,he was shot by many gun shots and a harpoon on him ,but he pulled off the harpoon ,but the cp5 shoots gun shot on him ,and after while he talked and he slied down ,and closed eye ,is that called that?or we call it alive, and Iceburg and franky was crying and franky was mad
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Originally posted by P' Cinq@Jul 16 2005, 10:23 PM
the manga did show tom is dead ,he was shot by many gun shots and a harpoon on him ,but he pulled off the harpoon ,but the cp5 shoots gun shot on him ,and after while he talked and he slied down ,and closed eye ,is that called that?or we call it alive, and Iceburg and franky was crying and franky was mad
[snapback]90803[/snapback]if u look closely at pgs 13-14 they shoot tranq darts into him. the judge says the orders changed from being executed to being escorted to enies lobby…the last we see of tom is him on the train going to enies lobby still alive
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come to think of it it really doesnt say wat theyre doing with tom at eneas lobby. but we do know they shoot tranquliser shots at him. however with his original crime of "building the ship for gold rodger" he was given the death penalty. instead of being accused of the attack he did of the match he tells the judge to take the responsibility of building rodger the ship which means he gets the penalty of the crime for building the ship for rodger which is, the death penalty. if this was really carried out, i'm afraid that we may not see tom again :mellow:
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Yep, that´s I think too. Oda wanted to establish that the WG doesn´t tolerate any help towards Roger. If they wouldn´t have executed him then this point would somehow lose importance.
However I reconsidered it and what indeed might be possible is that the Strawhats and maybe even more important Franky come to place where Tom-san has spend his last days before he died.
It could be an interrogation room where the government officials tried to drain out information from him, the cell were he was arrested before he died or another place of such a significance. It would be the place that made Tom-san spend his last breath´s in pain and I´m sure that such a room would also cause Franky a lot of pain. It might actually be the ideal setting for a fight between Spandam and Franky.Simply put, this whole room idea is somehow similar (and yet different) as Nami´s room in Arlong Park. :D
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haha interesting theory ivotas but i dont think oda will try the same sorta thing twice. i think oda tries to make his story line as unpredictable as possible and original. altho ur idea sounds great, my feeling is that oda wouldnt want to use a room, to flare up the fight even more. i'm sure oda will think of something that will surprise us all getting us more hooked on one piece :D
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That´s why I said it would be the same and in the same second it would be different.
With Nami´s room we had Luffy in a room where Nami (his still living nakama) suffered for eight years until that very day.
With Tom´s "room" it would be different because it would be a room where Tom and not Franky suffered. Other than that it wouldn´t be Luffy but Franky himself who would defeat Spandam in this environment.
Besides Oda already pulled such a move a second time. Luffy confronted Wapol at the gates of his castle. That´s the same place where Hiluluk died. So there´s another mental attachment to one of Luffy´s nakama. ;)
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haha sorry now i get ur point! well all i got to say is interesting…. interesting.... :rolleyes:
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_Originally posted by Ivotas+Jul 17 2005, 01:19 AM–>QUOTE(Ivotas @ Jul 17 2005, 01:19 AM)
Originally posted by Darkariel@Jul 17 2005, 01:07 AM
It would be great if Tom was alive, then Tom, Franky and Iceburg would build the best ship of the One Piece world to the strawhats
[snapback]90647[/snapback]Well, I consider that a bad idea. Tom already created his best work. Now it is time for his student to build something and surpass his teacher. The entire effect of this would be destroyed if Tom would aid by building the Strawhats "new" ship.
[snapback]90657[/snapback]Tom would help, Franky and Iceburg would make the ship and make Tom very proud to see that they became better then him
If Tom was involved in the new strawhats ship that would make Luffy one step closer to becoming Pirate King, seing that Tom build Gol D. Roger's ship
@Jul 17 2005, 01:38 AM
yeh i agree with ivotas, i mean being kept in prison for like 20 years after building the best ship…. i think you would of learnt ur lesson by now <_<
[snapback]90668[/snapback]__One more reason for him to want to make ships again to get revenge on the ones who put him there in the 1st place :lol:
Or maybe Tom doesn't remember anything because the W.G. brainwashed him ;)_
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i think tom tom would let ice-burg and franky build luffy's ship for many reasons. firstly tom has already built a ship for gold rodger who was the pirate king! he has fulfilled that dream already and if he's at eneas lobby, i'm sure he would think that luffy will b the next pirate king because he saved tom from eneas lobby, a place where no pirate will dare to go near and if luffy gets him out there tom would think luffy is god or something :P but to share his dream with his 2 apprentice carpenters i think he'd make franky and ice-burg build the ship for the next pirate king!!! :D
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Originally posted by Darkariel@Jul 17 2005, 04:22 PM
**Tom would help, Franky and Iceburg would make the ship and make Tom very proud to see that they became better then himIf Tom was involved in the new strawhats ship that would make Luffy one step closer to becoming Pirate King, seing that Tom build Gol D. Roger's ship**
You´re not very familiar with the satisfaction a person gets when he finishes the work on a piece that is the result of a creative process aren´t you? Because if you would be then you would understand how much important it is for people to do such a thing alone.
It doesn´t matter if it is a author, a painter, a cook, an architect, a carpenter or whatsoever, if you truly CREATE something of your own then you don´t want anybody to mess with your creation. True that some of those people may require some help (muscle) because of the heavy work but the creative process should be reserved for one person alone. Otherwise you can´t be satisfied on having produced a masterpiece.
Tom-san already created his masterpiece. His student should surpass him by his own and shouldn´t be distracted by his masters meddling.
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other than that i suppose his ship building skills may have gotten a little rusty in these 8 or so years that hes been imprisioned(that is if hes still alive) and tortured.
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Originally posted by wolfwood@Jul 18 2005, 03:42 AM
other than that i suppose his ship building skills may have gotten a little rusty in these 8 or so years that hes been imprisioned(that is if hes still alive) and tortured.
[snapback]90975[/snapback]i would highly doubt that. a man with that much experience in building ships wouldnt just not be able to create another masterpiece. i'm sure as well if he WAS going to build their ship (which i dont think) he would still remember how to build it, ofcourse unless he was brainwashed or watevr…
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I really think Tom is still alive. Even though they were talking about the death penalty, I think they kept him for interrogation they didn´t want the public to know about. The public thinks he´s dead, but they´re getting information.
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A friend and I were talking about that earlier actually. It's a possibility. With Oda, you never know. In the words of FB:
"If they meet Tom, and he STILL has the harpoon stuck in him, I will worship Oda for my next 5 lives."
Tom Damn, he was right. This wasn't designed to come out!
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Originally posted by Ivotas+Jul 17 2005, 05:38 PM–>QUOTE(Ivotas @ Jul 17 2005, 05:38 PM)
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darkariel i dont think tom seeing them build a better ship is called "helping." i would classify it more as observing, u do not help someone by watching them c how far theyve progressed, unless they gave advice. tom would not give advice to them as this will b franky and ice-burg's hand made ship to luffy!
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Originally posted by Kalei@Jul 17 2005, 01:24 PM
**A friend and I were talking about that earlier actually. It's a possibility. With Oda, you never know. In the words of FB:"If they meet Tom, and he STILL has the harpoon stuck in him, I will worship Oda for my next 5 lives."
Tom Damn, he was right. This wasn't designed to come out!
[snapback]91036[/snapback]**That would probably be the most badass thing I have ever seen if it happens. :lol:
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Huh…. guys! Tom pulled the harpoon out. :lol:
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yeh tom pulled the harpoon out not straight after he got shot with it, but when he decided to fight back!
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Originally posted by Battle Franky@Jul 18 2005, 09:27 AM
Huh…. guys! Tom pulled the harpoon out. :lol:
[snapback]91309[/snapback]I was about to say the same thing. :D
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Originally posted by da_pingunator@Jul 18 2005, 08:52 AM
darkariel i dont think tom seeing them build a better ship is called "helping." i would classify it more as observing, u do not help someone by watching them c how far theyve progressed, unless they gave advice. tom would not give advice to them as this will b franky and ice-burg's hand made ship to luffy!
[snapback]91300[/snapback]"Help" meaning making them do they're best to prove to him that they've learned much and improved they're ship making skills
I guess "Help" might be the a little wrong for this situation but that's the only word I remember at the time I wrote the post ;)
What I mean is that just by being there Tom would make Iceburg and Franky wanna do they're best job ever to prove him that they became the best
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Yeah we know XD It's still a funny thought though.
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same goes with other villains who fell in their pools of blood and closed eyes.
ehmarlongcrocodileothersehm
most of them isn't dead, just rotting in some pirate prison, out of sight and out of mind.
so yeah, chances that Tom is still alive does exist.
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Tom.. isn't.. a villain…
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Originally posted by Darkariel+Jul 19 2005, 03:40 AM–>QUOTE(Darkariel @ Jul 19 2005, 03:40 AM)
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Because of all the debate about whether or not Tom was still alive, I went back and re-read that part of the story. Had to use the MSN groups scan since I donâ€
t have the books, so I might have missed some subtleties in the art and such. However, it seemed clear to me that the WG did NOT kill Tom. At least not outright. At first, his sentence was execution, it was commuted so he could make the Sea Train, then all the mess with Spanda….m, and the last thing the judge said was that Tom was being taken to the Lobby.One thing Iâ€
ve noticed is the WG is cold-bloodedly practical. If they had wanted Robin dead, she would be dead. When they have people like Aokiji at their disposal, itâ€s silly to assume that Robin survived the last 20 years because she was so very good at hiding. Sheâ€s alive because the WG wanted her alive. The theory set forth in another thread (canâ€t find it atm, dammit) that Robin had been kept alive purposely after Ohara so the WG could use her, seems to fit into this.So it seems to me that if Tom was the only one who was capable of making the Sea Train, the WG would have to be pretty damn stupid to kill him for making Rogerâ€
s ship. A man with that kind of talent would be invaluable. This leads me to believe that Tom is alive, either being forced to work for the WG or kept as some kind of insurance. Probably to be the man to make the ancient weapon. Heâ€s the greatest shipwright/engineer in the world, after all. -
What if they meet him and he's all skinny? :lol:
