@Monkey:
Lol at you trying to categorize yourself behind an actual smart insightful poster like Silence. Like people said, you suck. Not your movie stance.
For instance we know Silence is a smart guy because for instance he doesn't have an incredibly hilarious "I AM NOT COMPENSATING FOR SOMETHING" avatar sig set of little babby bandaids for his hurt ego loll.
Keep it coming. Just gives me more stuff to report you for.
@XerXes:
Keep it coming. Just gives me more stuff to report you for.
You're like that kid in school who always tried to insult everyone but when someone dished it right back, went crying to the teacher.
You're like that kid in school who always tried to insult everyone but when someone dished it right back, went crying to the teacher.
@XerXes:
Just gives me more stuff to report you for.
You're reporting me, and probably one of those reports was for mocking Naruto Part 2, and you're doing this on Arlong Park.
lol
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@XerXes:
http://alexlod.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/why-so-serious.jpeg
ahahha wait, you're pulling this after openly bragging about reporting people?? ahahah whatttt
WHERESSSS THE TRIGGER, WHERE ISSHT ITT
And apparently they went through like two different versions of Bane's voice before settling on the one they did, which sounds for all the world like Dr. Evil drowning in a toilet.
I got so many nits to pick. Ordinarily they wouldn't interfere with my overall assessment of the film, but I guess there were too many of them. Big ones. Hello TRON 2. Sup, Prometheus.
The movie sorta landed there for me, but after two viewings I can't rationalize it into something much nicer.
Also Xerxes, fyi, Monkey King is legit a respected contributor and longtime vet of these forums and doesn't dish it unless it's warranted more or less,
So you are really barking up the wrong tree trying to get someone to come down on him for something most folks would agree he's right about.
Especially folks that are really new here gotta have a strong case to take him to court,
So my advice is to spare yourself a lot of verbal blunt force trauma and not cry over love taps.
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
WHERESSSS THE TRIGGER, WHERE ISSHT ITT
WHERE ARE THEY
WHERE ARE THEEEEY oh god rifftrax if going to have a field day with this
@Cyan:
WHERE ARE THEY
WHERE ARE THEEEEY oh god rifftrax if going to have a field day with this
Finally, Batman faces off his greatest foe, with a speech imepedement to rival his.
….............I still haven't seen the movie. :sad:
Also Xerxes, fyi, Monkey King is legit a respected contributor and longtime vet of these forums and doesn't dish it unless it's warranted more or less,
So you are really barking up the wrong tree trying to get someone to come down on him for something most folks would agree he's right about.
Especially folks that are really new here gotta have a strong case to take him to court,
So my advice is to spare yourself a lot of verbal blunt force trauma and not cry over love taps.
My apologies but there is nothing legit about that asshole or what he does. I don't give a damn if he's the president. Flaming members for having opinions different from his own and being allowed to do so is bullshit. I know that plenty of people around here are terrified of the ban hammer and so they let that shit slide but I'm not really the kind of guy who's afraid of someone on a forum.
And before the Kiss Monkey King's Ass Club starts chiming in with their taunts that went out of style in 2006, this is not XerXes Kaiser being an internet badass. I just refuse to take it in the ass from someone just because of their title.
@XerXes:
My apologies but there is nothing legit about that asshole or what he does. I don't give a damn if he's the president. Flaming members for having opinions different from his own and being allowed to do so is bullshit. I know that plenty of people around here are terrified of the ban hammer and so they let that shit slide but I'm not really the kind of guy who's afraid of someone on a forum.
And before the Kiss Monkey King's Ass Club starts chiming in with their taunts that went out of style in 2006, this is not XerXes Kaiser being an internet badass. I just refuse to take it in the ass from someone just because of their title.
I don't have any jurisdiction over it, but you should probably stop reporting him for what is being regarded as trivial. Believe me, nobody looking at your reports is on your side of things and would be more likely to infract you for abusing the report button. Not to be a dick, but if his barbs get to you that much you may need to get some thicker skin.
@XerXes:
My apologies but there is nothing legit about that asshole or what he does. I don't give a damn if he's the president. Flaming members for having opinions different from his own and being allowed to do so is bullshit. I know that plenty of people around here are terrified of the ban hammer and so they let that shit slide but I'm not really the kind of guy who's afraid of someone on a forum.
And before the Kiss Monkey King's Ass Club starts chiming in with their taunts that went out of style in 2006, this is not XerXes Kaiser being an internet badass. I just refuse to take it in the ass from someone just because of their title.
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=31716
I'd say he's pretty legit.
Also, fyi, Zephos isn't a mod. Quit reporting him and claiming he is.
@RobbyBevard:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=31716
I'd say he's pretty legit.
Also, fyi, Zephos isn't a mod. Quit reporting him and claiming he is.
If he were legit I wouldn't be reporting him would I?
@XerXes:
If he were legit I wouldn't be reporting him would I?
Dude, people wouldn't be giving you so much grief if you just got over stuff. I mean, every debate I've seen with you involved devolves into a name-calling sludge, usually instigated by you.
Monkey King has given everyone their fair share of grief at one point or another, you've just gotta get over it.
@XerXes:
If he were legit I wouldn't be reporting him would I?
Obviously the entire website and all of it's mods are corrupt and beyond salvation. You should probably do something cool like take Oda hostage and threaten his life unless your demands at APForums are met. Then kill him anyway so you teach them the lesson that it is not ok to be jerk diseased meany heads.
I think i enjoyed this movie so much i'm going to see it again, just shove all my money into nolans hands as fast as possible.
I've seen it three times. I keep telling people how good it is, and they're like I wish I had someone to see it with. So I have volunteered twice. And both times I was more excited than the people that hadn't seen it already lol.
Dude, people wouldn't be giving you so much grief if you just got over stuff. I mean, every debate I've seen with you involved devolves into a name-calling sludge, usually instigated by you.
You've obviously not seen my in the Final Fantasy thread, FT thread, Nisenmonogatari thread and many others. I've been involved in many debates and the only issues I've had is with Vex and his side-kick Monkey King. Do not speak of things that are beyond your knowledge.
Monkey King has given everyone their fair share of grief at one point or another, you've just gotta get over it.[/QUOTE
Monkey King needs to learn to play by the rules like everyone else on this forum. All members are expected to follow the rules except Monkey King and Robby correct? Those two get a pass. Someone like you might think that is justice. Someone like me thinks differently.
Obviously the entire website and all of it's mods are corrupt and beyond salvation. You should probably do something cool like take Oda hostage and threaten his life unless your demands at APForums are met. Then kill him anyway so you teach them the lesson that it is not ok to be jerk diseased meany heads.
I'm beginning to think you're entirely correct.
I think i enjoyed this movie so much i'm going to see it again, just shove all my money into nolans hands as fast as possible.
Nolan is getting more than enough money. I've never seen a movie that was good enough to see in theatres twice and TDKR is no different. I will admit that TDK was almost the movie that made me spend an additional $30 on a movie (cause we all know the concessions are what kills you) but my god all those dry scenes. A little rain wouldn't have killed The Dark Knight. That's probably why I feel the cinematography in Batman Begins was the best out of three movies. We got mountains, snow, rains, slums of Gotham, office buildings, prisons, a nice variety of setpieces.
@XerXes:
Monkey King needs to learn to play by the rules like everyone else on this forum. All members are expected to follow the rules except Monkey King and Robby correct? Those two get a pass. Someone like you might think that is justice. Someone like me thinks differently.
I already explained this to you.
You're the innocent victim we've singled out for no reason whatsoever to pick on just because.
I saw the newest Star Trek 3x cause I kept getting invited by different groups of friends. I don't often see a movie multiple times in theaters but i'd have no problem doing it for this one.
@XerXes:
Do not speak of things that are beyond your knowledge.
Someone like you might think that is justice. Someone like me thinks differently.
I read all your posts in Bale's Batman voice, just so you know.
I read all your posts in Bale's Batman voice, just so you know.
Haha, I'm rereading all of his posts now and they're so awesome. (And really loud)
I read all your posts in Bale's Batman voice, just so you know.
I guess you just…
puts on glasses
rattled my cage.
YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
--- Update From New Post Merge ---
Haha, I'm rereading all of his posts now and they're so awesome. (And really loud)
I used to be taken…
puts on shades
seriously.
YEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
Monkey King is just another reincarnation of Zephos,
He's been around for far, far longer than a couple of reports over kiddy crap are gonna affect so good luck with that
And he's earned his place here or he wouldn't be here,
But even if it wasn't him, I'm thinking it wouldn't take much at all to get you so hot and bothered,
because here you are in heat over a feather-light sig dig and acting like someone nailed you to the cross over everything else.
but you know justice crusade whatever, tilt at those internet windmills
maybe all the bumps and callouses will help you develop a thicker skin instead of a cracked skull
Monkey King is just another reincarnation of Zephos,
He's been around for far, far longer than a couple of reports over kiddy crap are gonna affect so good luck with that
And he's earned his place here or he wouldn't be here,But even if it wasn't him, I'm thinking it wouldn't take much at all to get you so hot and bothered,
because here you are in heat over a feather-light sig dig and acting like someone nailed you to the cross over everything else.but you know justice crusade whatever, tilt at those internet windmills
maybe all the bumps and callouses will help you develop a thicker skin instead of a cracked skull
Your post was…
puts on shades
retarded.
YEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!
You have Robby's permission to die.
Well that was entertaining while it lasted…
Just watched this - pretty disappointed to be honest. It wasn't bad per se, but nothing about it really got me into it either, and some of the logical leaps felt like a bit much. Hard to exactly quantify why just yet, but it really seemed to drag a lot, and it being open season on
! people figuring out wayne = batman was a bit silly.
Better then Begins, but not as good as phantasm/the Burton's duo/dark knight.
I'm so sorry, I failed you!
From what heard from friends and family this movie was filled with plotholes and contrivances. But I will wait till' the films blu ray release since I'm way to busy with other things right now. Thankfully, I haven't used the internet that much since I moved into my new apartment so I'll stay relatively spoiler-free. Anxious to see the film, really.
Edit: I don't really care about Rotten tomatoes but they surprisingly gave this film a lower score than the previous film. Oh well the greatest critic is yourself.
http://i963.photobucket.com/albums/ae119/herodadotus/tombstone.jpg
I'm so sorry, I failed you!
! Hero sits down in cafe with tea
! puts down newspaper
! looks across to see XerXes giving lame put downs to the waiter
! Hero smiles and sips his tea
@Cyan:
! Hero sits down in cafe with tea
! puts down newspaper
! looks across to see XerXes giving lame put downs to the waiter
! Hero smiles and sips his tea
! "Why do you want us to look at the edit button, sir?"
! Robby: "I just want to know if there was something I could've done."
! "Sir, the edit button was already fixed!"
! "By who?"
! "XerXes Kaiser, sir."
Sigh…poor XerXes.
He really did manage to turn himself into a martyr.
For what, I don't know. But he did it.
And I've done more reflecting on the whole plothole business , and I still don't get it.
Especially when those who complain say they prefer TDK.
I mean, how did the Joker rig Gotham general with that many bombs?
How did he manage to rig the judge's car? Poison the commissioners cup?
How did Wayne and Rachel survive a fall from the top of Wayne Enterprises?
How did none of the other bus drivers notice a school bus pulling out out a bank with a whole in the wall.
And this last one is just something that bugs me, but I call BS that no one on that ferry would have pulled the trigger.
I can understand where people are coming from with Rises, because when I look at TDK, while I enjoy it, all I see are these problems that I can't find answers to, which is why I enjoy it a little less every time I watch it. So far with Rises, it's gotten stronger with each viewing. Begins is still the tightest of the films though, even if I do enjoy Rises more.
But can anyone give me an explanation for those things in TDK? Because unlike a certain someone with Rises, I would quite like to enjoy TDK more, and answers to those issue would definitely help me out.
I'm being serious here, I'm not trying to cause any more issues.
Why are you trying to find answers? Do you actually think whatever you come up with is something Christopher Nolan had in mind when he put those scenes in his movie? I think you're giving him too much credit. They're stupid plotholes, that's all. This need to rationalize them is just giving excuses for lazy writing.
Anyway, I'll be seeing the movie this Friday so I can finally give my verdict on the thing. The opinions I've been getting on this movie from sources I trust have not been promising. I'm one of the few who thinks Dark Knight is just an okay movie (it was good mostly for the Joker but weak in everything else and the ferry scene has to be one of the stupidest things I've ever seen, like they wouldn't have killed each other in the first five seconds) so people saying it's not as good as DK is a bit daunting. But I'll be going in with an open mind, at the end of the day, how I feel about this movie is up to me and no one else. Here's hoping I won't feel like I wasted three hours of my life afterwards.
XerXes Kaiser was the poster this thread deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll ban him… because he can take it. (couldn't resist)
I'm with you, Nex. I think people tend to rank Dark Knight the highest and cut it more slack because of Ledger's performance (which is fantastic). All three movies in the trilogy have flaws, like most movies do. I like all of them, but Rises is my favorite because it was a satisfying conclusion to the story.
XerXes Kaiser was the poster this thread deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll ban him… because he can take it. (couldn't resist)
Lmao, you stole my words!
I'm with you, Nex. I think people tend to rank Dark Knight the highest and cut it more slack because of Ledger's performance (which is fantastic). All three movies in the trilogy have flaws, like most movies do. I like all of them, but Rises is my favorite because it was a satisfying conclusion to the story.
Agreed with both of you. Even i feel Rises is shadowed mostly due to Ledger's performance. Agreed him being THE BEST antagonist, there is quite a lot of difference between Bane and Joker.
@Nex:
Sigh…poor XerXes.
He really did manage to turn himself into a martyr.
For what, I don't know. But he did it.
You could say he went….Berserk!
@Nex:
And I've done more reflecting on the whole plothole business , and I still don't get it.
Especially when those who complain say they prefer TDK.I mean, how did the Joker rig Gotham general with that many bombs?
How did he manage to rig the judge's car? Poison the commissioners cup?
How did Wayne and Rachel survive a fall from the top of Wayne Enterprises?
How did none of the other bus drivers notice a school bus pulling out out a bank with a whole in the wall.
And this last one is just something that bugs me, but I call BS that no one on that ferry would have pulled the trigger.I can understand where people are coming from with Rises, because when I look at TDK, while I enjoy it, all I see are these problems that I can't find answers to, which is why I enjoy it a little less every time I watch it. So far with Rises, it's gotten stronger with each viewing. Begins is still the tightest of the films though, even if I do enjoy Rises more.
But can anyone give me an explanation for those things in TDK? Because unlike a certain someone with Rises, I would quite like to enjoy TDK more, and answers to those issue would definitely help me out.
I'm being serious here, I'm not trying to cause any more issues.
You know, I saw this review a few days ago and I hesitate to post it since the guy's reviewing style is unrefined (he's no Plinkett) and I'm not sure how much I agree with what he says, but I do feel he makes some good points and points out a lot of things that did bug me about TDK. So, eh, what the hell. Here it is and take from it what you will.
!
Spoilercast, watch only if you've seen the movie or don't mind spoiling yourself
!
It's pretty short for a spoilercast 13 minutes. I going to watch the movie tomorrow so I can't comment on what he said yet.
Saw the movie last night at my local Imax (which has the biggest cinema screen in the world apparently)and i really enjoyed it, as much as the Dark Knight I'm not sure ill need repeat viewing's to see which i prefer, definitely preferred it to begins.
! I really enjoyed how how the trilogy panned out as a whole honestly, Begins was Bruce Wayne becoming Batman, TDK was Batman establish time to let villain run wild, and in a a way rises was Batman becoming Bruce Wayne again i can't wait until i can get my hands on a blu-ray and marathon the whole trilogy in one sitting.
As for villains, and weather Bane stacks up to the joker, as far as plots go Bane exceeds the joker, his plan was far better and he posed a greater threat to the batman, than any of the previous villains. as Far as the actual character he doesn't quite match up, sure he was interesting to watch but he's no where near as fun to watch as the Joker, and honestly theres no way he could be the character served a different purpose, besides nothing could have matched up to the perfection of Heath ledgers Joker.
! Highlights of the movie for me
-Anne Hathaway as Catwomen, honestly she blew me away
-Crane as the Judge
-the bat, no mater how unrealistic that shit was cool
-Batman's sacrifice, then survival
-Blake's name Being Robin, i know some disliked this and it would have been better if the name was Dick Grayson, Jason Todd or Tim Drake but i enjoy fit none the less, i saw it as more Nolan trolling the audience more than anything, I don't expect any sequel or spin off
also did anyone else's eyes date just teensy bit when Alfred was in front of Bruce's Grave?
@Thousand:
Why are you trying to find answers? Do you actually think whatever you come up with is something Christopher Nolan had in mind when he put those scenes in his movie? I think you're giving him too much credit. They're stupid plotholes, that's all. This need to rationalize them is just giving excuses for lazy writing.
That's not lazy writing. It's the writer of the movie about a rich guy who uses martial arts and advanced technology that must cost billions of dollars to fight crime in a bat suit asking your brain to shut up and suspend your disbelief.
All movies require that you do that.
Because they are fake.
Especially when they are based on comic books.
Because comic books aren't real…
So, for the lulz, I went reading through the old Dark Knight Thread, and I've found it somewhat mirrors this one. It even has it's own XerXes! Also, props to one Tarrin4ever, because he was the first person on the site to call Bane as the villain.
Anyway, on to some actual responses.
@Thousand:
Why are you trying to find answers? Do you actually think whatever you come up with is something Christopher Nolan had in mind when he put those scenes in his movie? I think you're giving him too much credit. They're stupid plotholes, that's all. This need to rationalize them is just giving excuses for lazy writing.
Because I still really, really like the movie, and while some of the plot does bother me, I still think it's the best acted film out of the trilogy. Even outside of Ledger, Eckhart is phenomenal, and Gary Oldman is the goddamn Gary Oldman! I enjoy the story enough that the things I see as plot holes and contrivances don't detract too much from my overall enjoyment of the film, but if someone can prove me wrong that those aren't plot holes I will be grateful, because that will just help me like the film as much as I want to.
That's what I was trying to do with XerXes, and a couple other people around here tat said they liked it, but apparently I just have a weird way of thinking.
I'm with you, Nex. I think people tend to rank Dark Knight the highest and cut it more slack because of Ledger's performance (which is fantastic). All three movies in the trilogy have flaws, like most movies do. I like all of them, but Rises is my favorite because it was a satisfying conclusion to the story.
You and me (And Leon) till the end! And definitely. I love a good ending, which is why I love Nolan, as, for me, his endings never disappoint. While Begins is probably the tightest of the films and it's only major issue is the shaky cam, I absolutely love the way Nolan decided to end his Batman story.
If the Dark Knight had been his last Batman film (like it almost was), I would have been ok with that ending, though not enthralled. Because it left me wanting more, which is usually a good thing, but as a series-ender it can be kind of bad. Rises was just perfect, in my opinion of course. Once the ending montage started I couldn't stop grinning, and when it faded to black I was completely satisfied.
The link Iceman posted said one of the flaws was "multiple ending syndrome" or somethign among those lines, and then cited Lord of the Rings.
First off, anyone who criticizes the ending of Lord of the Rings is…well...I'm just gonna have a problem with you. Second. I don't get at all how a montage counts as multiple endings.
But I've rambled on long enough!
You know, I saw this review a few days ago and I hesitate to post it since the guy's reviewing style is unrefined (he's no Plinkett) and I'm not sure how much I agree with what he says, but I do feel he makes some good points and points out a lot of things that did bug me about TDK. So, eh, what the hell. Here it is and take from it what you will.
!
Coolio I shall check it out now.
–----------------
In other news, I really want to sit down and marathon these Lord of the Rings style.
I have a feeling that the whole trilogy will feel a lot tighter and will come across even stronger.
Did anyone do the marathon at their local theater, and if so, how did they feel about it?
@Nex:
Did anyone do the marathon at their local theater, and if so, how did they feel about it?
I did. And it was great seeing them back to back. Not sure if it made things more enjoyable, though. But since The Dark Knight Rises references the last 2 movies a lot, it was nice to have a bit of a refresher. If you had a clear knowledge of what happened in the last two films, then you probably would enjoy it the same as if you marathon'd it. That's not to say that the movies aren't really good in one sitting.
@Nex:
So, for the lulz, I went reading through the old Dark Knight Thread, and I've found it somewhat mirrors this one. It even has it's own XerXes! Also, props to one Tarrin4ever, because he was the first person on the site to call Bane as the villain.
I remember him calling that, and I want to travel back in time just to tell that person "if only you knew", and then disappear into nowhere like Batman.
And lolz at the false rumors that spawned months afterwards, claiming that Eddy Murphy was going to be the Riddler.
That's not lazy writing. It's the writer of the movie about a rich guy who uses martial arts and advanced technology that must cost billions of dollars to fight crime in a bat suit asking your brain to shut up and suspend your disbelief.
All movies require that you do that.
Because they are fake.
Especially when they are based on comic books.
Because comic books aren't real…
Nuh-uh. Sorry doesn't work like that. There's something called tone. It's how a movie is supposed to feel. If it were a full out comic book movie like Avengers then you can be more forgiving of plot holes. But for a serious movie like the Batman movies are, where it's trying to wow you with the story not the action and is acting so smart and intelligent, any plot holes that make it look stupid means one would be less forgiving. Because really any movie with a billionaire dressed in a Bat-Man suit running around and fighting crime has no business being such a serious movie. Which is one of the serious problems with Dark Knight (especially when the the more fantastical elements clash with the tone of the movie) and only think it's an okay movie (along with the shallow psychoanalysis that amount to nothing but cute thought experiments but have no place in the analysis of real people). But really my point is…
@Nex:
Because I still really, really like the movie, and while some of the plot does bother me, I still think it's the best acted film out of the trilogy. Even outside of Ledger, Eckhart is phenomenal, and Gary Oldman is the goddamn Gary Oldman! I enjoy the story enough that the things I see as plot holes and contrivances don't detract too much from my overall enjoyment of the film, but if someone can prove me wrong that those aren't plot holes I will be grateful, because that will just help me like the film as much as I want to.
That's what I was trying to do with XerXes, and a couple other people around here tat said they liked it, but apparently I just have a weird way of thinking.
And that's fine. It's fine to like a movie despite its flaws. But there's no need to work your brain and try to excuse its flaws. Just say you don't care and you love it anyway. This need to rationalize them is just excessive.
@Thousand:
Nuh-uh. Sorry doesn't work like that. There's something called tone. It's how a movie is supposed to feel. If it were a full out comic book movie like Avengers then you can be more forgiving of plot holes. But for a serious movie like the Batman movies are, where it's trying to wow you with the story not the action and is acting so smart and intelligent, any plot holes that make it look stupid means one would be less forgiving. Because really any movie with a billionaire dressed in a Bat-Man suit running around and fighting crime has no business being such a serious movie. Which is one of the serious problems with Dark Knight (especially when the the more fantastical elements clash with the tone of the movie) and only think it's an okay movie (along with the shallow psychoanalysis that amount to nothing but cute thought experiments but have no place in the analysis of real people). But really my point is…
It does work like that. Even in a completely serious drama you could ask yourself ridiculous questions that don't really matter to or change the plot.
Why didn't he stop for a snack on the way home?
Why did he stop for a snack on the way home?
Why does he keep his umbrella in the upstairs closet?
Why didn't he wait an extra second to call her?
Nolan's Batmans are an attempt to take comic book material as seriously as possible while still remaining somewhat true to the source material. You obviously don't like that so why are you even in this thread discussing these movies if you hate the premise on which they're made. There's nothing for you here but things to complain about, of which you have three entire movies worth. Just because you sit there defiantly refusing to suspend your disbelief doesn't mean everyone who has is just ignoring plot holes.
It's a movie, a work of fiction based on a work of fiction. I'm sorry if because you know that Batman gliding on a cape of that size and material is physically impossible it ruined the movie for you. Plot holes man, just plot holes everywhere…
@Nex:
The link Iceman posted said one of the flaws was "multiple ending syndrome" or somethign among those lines, and then cited Lord of the Rings.
First off, anyone who criticizes the ending of Lord of the Rings is…well...I'm just gonna have a problem with you. Second. I don't get at all how a montage counts as multiple endings.
But I've rambled on long enough!
LOTR still remains my favorite trilogy. (off-topic)
It is my opinion is that people should stop comparing the Rises and Dark knight just by Ledger's and Hardy's performances. Bane has purpose for his actions. Joker just wants to see things burn. Rises is on much more higher scale than Dark Knight. Also, the envirnment of Rises is more black/dark and grim.
It does work like that. Even in a completely serious drama you could ask yourself ridiculous questions that don't really matter to or change the plot.
Why didn't he stop for a snack on the way home?
Why did he stop for a snack on the way home?
Why does he keep his umbrella in the upstairs closet?
Why didn't he wait an extra second to call her?Nolan's Batmans are an attempt to take comic book material as seriously as possible while still remaining somewhat true to the source material. You obviously don't like that so why are you even in this thread discussing these movies if you hate the premise on which they're made. There's nothing for you here but things to complain about, of which you have three entire movies worth. Just because you sit there defiantly refusing to suspend your disbelief doesn't mean everyone who has is just ignoring plot holes.
It's a movie, a work of fiction based on a work of fiction. I'm sorry if because you know that Batman gliding on a cape of that size and material is physically impossible it ruined the movie for you. Plot holes man, just plot holes everywhere…
Yes you could. But I'm asking important questions that are integral to the plot. Like why would the character do this, how could he do that, is what happened consistent with the rules of this world, how did he know that, how did he know to go there, what's the underlying theme of the movie and how does this event help in carrying across that message? I don't care how Batman can glide with his cape. That's consistent with the rules of the world. Here's an example of what I do care about: How does the Joker, the number one most wanted man in Gotham able to set up bombs that can destroy an entire hospital without being detected when the entire police force is on maximum guard? It makes the police force look incompetent and it takes you out of the realistic tone of the movie. These are fundamental questions that are directly integrated into the plot and affect the quality of the story. Not stupid nit-picks like why does a banker have a shotgun in his office? Who cares about that?
It's fine to not care and turn your brain off and just want to see Batman do cool stuff. I want to see that too. But the cool action comes packaged with a story that you're supposed to take seriously which I do. I have this thing you see, it's called critical thinking. it's fine if Nolan wants to make a "serious" comic book movie. I don't agree with the notion but he can take a stab at it and I'll like it if it's done well. The problem is that he goes to the trouble of dramifying everything and then we get stupid things happening that completely takes you out of the serious atmosphere the movie went through the trouble of creating. Then the stupid things that happen end up making the movie look more stupid than had it had a light-hearted, adventurous tone.
The excuse "Don't take it so seriously" just doesn't cut it because it's meant to be taken seriously, Nolan wants you to take the movie seriously. And then you have people praising the movie's "incredible writing" when it's really not so incredible and when people are pointed to the numerous plot-holes, they go "Stop nitpicking, it's just a comic book movie. Geez!" A bit of a mixed-message there in my opinion.
But like I told Nex (and I have a feeling you didn't read my full post in it's entirety if you missed my point), it's fine if you don't care. Lord knows there are plenty of movies with shitty writing that I like and/or love regardless (Bad Boys 1 and 2, Troy, Pirates 2, any badly-written Jackie Chan movie that isn't Tuxedo, Medallion, Shangai Knights, Rush Hour 2 and 3 or Spy Next Door). But lazy writing is lazy writing. Saying I shouldn't take it so seriously (when I'm supposed to by the way) doesn't change that fact. It's the tone that decides how much the audience should should suspend its disbelief. Good for you if you can stretch yours to farther lengths than mine, if you just wanna see Batman be all cool and badass, but the movie went out of its way to give the other serious stuff and I don't think I'm out of line (or being stupid) if I criticize it especially when it's stupid.
Also fyi, I haven't seen DKR yet. I'll be seeing it tomorrow and giving it my opinion then. Here's hoping my complaints won't be echoed in that movie.
I love this gem though.
Just because you sit there defiantly refusing to suspend your disbelief doesn't mean everyone who has is just ignoring plot holes.
That's the very definition of what suspending your disbelief means lol
@Nex:
I mean, how did the Joker rig Gotham general with that many bombs?
How did he manage to rig the judge's car? Poison the commissioners cup?
How did Wayne and Rachel survive a fall from the top of Wayne Enterprises?
How did none of the other bus drivers notice a school bus pulling out out a bank with a whole in the wall.
And this last one is just something that bugs me, but I call BS that no one on that ferry would have pulled the trigger.
1: My assumption was that Tubby wasn't the only of Joker's Goons with a bomb in his stomach, he was just the only one who collapsed.
2: The movie set up quite a bit of the corruption in Gotham, what with the "Bad Cops" and the "Well Placed Sources" in the DAs office. Easy task to get some dirty cops/elected officials to rig those things.
3: He's Batman, They fell him-first and he had massive training and an awesome Batsuit. He survives a fall that killed Harvey later.
4: "Oh, that's just Gary. He tends to drink before coming into work.. heh, it isn't a field trip if ol' Gary doesn't run into a building or two"
5: Both instances there were cops to stop them until the right moment. Then in one, it was the noble prisoner who took the trigger out of play. The cops with guns were just a distraction, but as Noble Prisoner said, one of the others was probably a bout to kill the cops and take it. Then in the other boat, again, cops held them up until they did their "Vote" and then the one guy who stepped up to do the job wussed out. All these things were just a stall while Batman disarmed the Joker. then if everyone saw that Midnight came and went and they still weren't boom, they could assume that the cops stopped The Joker.
Also, the So-called "Plotholes" in Rises don't really come off as plotholes to me… like, at all.
! Blake to me, seemed like an amalgamation of the first 3 Robins. He was a cop like Dick Grayson, his father was involved in and killed by Crime like Jason Todd and he FOR SOME REASON figured out that Batman was Bruce Wayne with no access to any evidence that anyone else didn't have extremely implausibly, just like Tim Drake. I mean seriously, it's more plausible to me that an adult, a police detective who has had years to think about this, would figure out Batman's identity than Tim Drake. a kid, just putting the pieces together by paying attention to news stories. We're supposed to believe that using News Stories alone, the same news stories that EVERYONE IN GOTHAM has access to, Tim Drake was able to figure out who Batman is when the Cops, the Villains, and even most of the other Superheros can't? Really?! Because that's Tim Drake's origins in the comics. He's not a kid with a Tragic past who Bruce takes under his wing like the previous two Robins. He's a super duper Batman fan who just fucking figures it out and tries to become Robin because "Batman needs a Robin".
! It's Established in the movie that Daggetts construction company was being used as a front for the bomb delivery and the explosives were being mixed into concrete. So: Step 1: Mix explosives into cement, Step 2: Use the cement for tons of construction over a long period of time. Step 3: Sidewalk Bombs! Pretty simple, and I only saw the movie once. I figured that out the second Blake said "They're mixing explosives into the concrete".
! And I still want it explained to me how Talia's inclusion in the movie is a plothole, this still eludes me.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
LOTR still remains my favorite trilogy. (off-topic)
I'd go with Back to the Future or The Man With No Name.
It is my opinion is that people should stop comparing the Rises and Dark knight just by Ledger's and Hardy's performances. Bane has purpose for his actions. Joker just wants to see things burn.
Well a lot of the problems both movies have are similar, but people (myself included, I must admit), were willing to give Dark Knight a pass because Ledgers performance was rather good. That less people are prepared to do that with Rise obviously leads people in one direction…
Rises is on much more higher scale than Dark Knight. Also, the envirnment of Rises is more black/dark and grim.
It may have attempted to be but I certainly don't feel that was particularly pulled off. Just
! a bigger bomb, more hostages, and some poorly done "show people's true nature"/"screw the rich" (Still not sure which of those they were attempting to portray but it seemed to tend towards the latter) added in.
@Thousand:
Also fyi, I haven't seen DKR yet. I'll be seeing it tomorrow and giving it my opinion then. Here's hoping my complaints won't be echoed in that movie.
I love this gem though.
That's the very definition of what suspending your disbelief means lol
You're not getting it. Movies, books, and TV are not one way streets where the writer feeds you every single piece of information. There is some information that is not fed that you are expected to simply accept. That doesn't make it a plot hole or bad writing unless it actually causes a hole in the plot. How Joker set up those bombs is not important or relevant to the plot at all. Whats important is that he did it and impact that it has on this city and batman and it pushes the story further. Nolan is making a serious movie based on a comic book. It's not a mixed message, if you can ignore batman defying the laws of physics constantly then you should be able to accept that Joker, who infiltrated the police force already, was capable of setting up bombs in a hospital. It's like complaining that John Hammond creating dinosaurs was a stupid idea to begin with in Jurassic park and therefore the movie is just a giant plot hole. You're not accepting the rules of the fiction. You're adamantly refusing to do that and because of that you will find tons of things you consider plot holes but they aren't.
You're saying that the movie should be entirely one way because you refuse to ignore any information that is not spelled out for you but that's not how movies work. Give me some movies, some serious fictions ones, and if i've seen them i'll do to them exactly what you're doing here and I bet you I will find "plot holes" simply by refusing to believe the fiction of the story.
You're not going to like TDKR because you hate the premise and you hate the fiction. I don't understand why you would even bother to see a movie like it.
There's going along with the narrative flow.
And then there are actual plot holes that require giant leaps of logic, or fast editing to ignore them, fan explanations, things that require characters to teleport, be omnipotent, or use a deus ex machina, that just don't hold up when you think back on it. (So Dock Ock was supposed to get Spiderman… so the throws a car at Peter Parker in a resteraunt... who he doesn't know is Spiderman...) As long as the movie can suspend your disbelief the first time through and carry its own momentum, as long as it CAN explain all its own questions, and so you can be entertained, it did its job. (Momento is ONLY good once, for instance)
But good movies can hold up to a bit of scrutiny and answer their own questions, and great ones don't even beg those questions due to editing problems in the first place. Not having a character explicitly state something and leaving it to the viewer to figure out... is NOT the same thing as just jumping around and having no answer at all. (And I enjoyed LOST, so I know something about that particular argument.)
Dark Knight was full of those sorts of plotholes and leaps in logic. (Someone posted a 40 minute video on it yesterday.) I still haven't seen Rises, but its easy to believe more of the same.
How Joker set up those bombs is not important or relevant to the plot at all. Whats important is that he did it and impact that it has on this city and batman and it pushes the story further.
A crazy man who admits he doesn't plan things out, still somehow repeatedly planning things out to a meticulous split second timing in the exact path that all the action is going to flow IS jarring eventually, since it does basically require omnipotence on his part, and a ridiculous ammount of elaborate and discreet behind the scenes work.
Driving a bus out of a bank with smoke trails and NOBODY even flinching, no police coming, and the requisite split second timing needed to kill each member of the gang on cue in location and time it to enter the chain of buses right off the bat is something that just doesn't make sense. It's cool the first time you see it and makes you go "Oh wow, that was a great plan! Joker is awesome" But the second time, you have to stop and go… "Wait... that defies all logic and plausibility. How did he...?"
Dark Knight is fine (though 20 minutes too long.) But it DOES fall apart some on second viewing. It doesn't mean the movie failed, since it can keep your interest and the momentum and obviously a lot of people like it and overlook these things and they aren't completely glaring. But... it also means its not the near perfect intricately plotted crime thriller its hailed as either, since logic and plausibility just have to be thrown out the door for some of the set pieces to work, and editing has to hide some of it.
It's like complaining that John Hammond creating dinosaurs was a stupid idea to begin with in Jurassic park and therefore the movie is just a giant plot hole. You're not accepting the rules of the fiction. You're adamantly refusing to do that and because of that you will find tons of things you consider plot holes but they aren't.
You accept there are dinosaurs in Jurassic Park, because thats the main thrust of the movie and the explain it at length how its done and that's the ENTIRE point. You accept that. (In DK you accept there's a man in a bat suit, and a crazy clown man blowing stuff up.)
You don't however have to accept the fact that the T-Rex cage keeps changing, or that the monorail driven cars somehow ended up going backwards, or that we're supposed to hate the lawyer making sense JUST because he's the lawyer, or that Nedry despite knowing all the dinosaurs on the island doesn't know about the spitter, or that nobody ever used their guns.
You don't have to accept that the Joker was left at a party with no resolution, or that he can can set wires in the exact path of airborne helicopters ahead of time, or that security is completely stupid and inept, or do the impossible amount of setup and split second timing most of his plans require, or that Batman can physically beat the crap out of him without him even flinching. Or that the Joker knows Batman is gonna save Harvey so he shoots a bazooka in the direction of Harvey's vehicle because he knows Batman is gonna jump out of nowhere to intercept the shot. He knows how quick Batman is and how a-little-less-quick the police is so that he can send Batman to save Harvey and send the police to fail to save Rachel. And worst of all, he knows that a police officer will stay with him INSIDE his prison cell so that he can take him hostage and eventually kill everyone. If the police officer was not retarded, he would have been watching him from outside the cell, from the other side of the mirror-window.
Do these things break the movie? No, it carries you in the flow and is fine. But do those things seem weird and illogical with some afterthought? Do they eventually sink in so you think about them whenever you see the movie, and thus hurt the movie some? Yeah, they do.
Doesn't mean the movie is bad or that someone being bothered by these things just wants to hate the movie, but it does mean the problems are there, and its fair to call the film on it when people are saying its realistic, flawless and intricately plotted.
Citizen freaking Kane has the MASSIVE plot hole in the first minute that nobody was in Kane's room to hear him say "Rosebud", and so the entire investigative premise of the movie doesn't work. But you can forgive that because the rest of the movie is pretty much flawless.
