No problem!
You know, though, I think he was quoting himself to prove that he was only talking about probability, not to imply that you were.
No problem!
You know, though, I think he was quoting himself to prove that he was only talking about probability, not to imply that you were.
No problem!
You know, though, I think he was quoting himself to prove that he was only talking about probability, not to imply that you were.
I tend to get overly paranoid on a caffeine binge. Jury's still out though.
I'm sure if I was wrong he's going to rub it in my face, and the balance will be restored.:wassat:
Technically, both sides are essentially correct.
We're just saying, stating a fact that has two sides, doesnt always mean its going to be a 50/50 situation. Two sides of a situation doesnt mean that the situation happening will be a 50/50.
I wish I had another arm so I can facepalm myself while typing.
I was trying to say that a lot of you mentioned unpredictability and I clearly said does unpredictability necessarily equal good quality? It's a very good question that a lot of you seemed to dismiss as too obvious when in fact it's in the core of the argument.
Also, I don't see how this whole unpre. and pre. has anything meanigful to say about the current arc. Why don't we just discuss something more useful. Really there are ton of things out there but here im sitting with people trying to argue about the dumbest thing I've ever seen anyone come up with in any OP discussion. Was this arc predictable? Oh hey wait I found the math behind it! DUR HUR it's all 50/50.
I wish I had another arm so I can facepalm myself while typing.
I was trying to say that a lot of you mentioned unpredictability and I clearly said does unpredictability necessarily equal good quality? It's a very good question that a lot of you seemed to dismiss as too obvious when in fact it's in the core of the argument.
Also, I don't see how this whole unpre. and pre. has anything meanigful to say about the current arc. Why don't we just discuss something more useful. Really there are ton of things out there but here im sitting with people trying to argue about the dumbest thing I've ever seen anyone come up with in any OP discussion. Was this arc predictable? Oh hey wait I found the math behind it! DUR HUR it's all 50/50.
Dude WTFs wrong with you? Are you angry at the world for some reason? Cause the world never entered into this discussion you keep bringing up.
Why the attitude? Generally speaking insulting everyone won't get you responded on topic. You will however get angry responses that, if your original intention was to discuss, will fail at the purposes of an intellectual exchange. Are you semi-familiar with forum dinamics?
/end disclaimer
F–- YOU
Why don't we just discuss something more useful.
Or you can not join the argument and ignore it since you have nothing meaningful to add to it.
Erm this is getting out of control… some mod kick the new guy 2 posts above me coz he just shattered my eyes with those two words xD
Erm this is getting out of control… some mod kick the new guy 2 posts above me coz he just shattered my eyes with those two words xD
Golly, I apologize for the offensive language, chappy chap. I hope everything's darn tootin' now, cause I just edited the post so I don't get banned cause I shattered your eyes.
Was the snitch act really necessary? Jeezus, Yikes and Dangit! See if I tell you where I buried my parole officer now, mister finky!
Besides, you're newer than me for crying out loud! XD
I'm hoping the guy is being extremely sarcastic and not that much of a dumbass.
Oh hey wait I found the math behind it! DUR HUR it's all 50/50.
lol, yeah, that is totally what I meant. . . in fact, everythig in life is 50/50 because if it was 40/60 it would be 9.
anyway, I think Ussopspell put my thoughts into better words and explained what I also think into better words so thanks. For me this discussion is now closed because rambling on about this has no use. So forget the "mathematics" if you can call it that. I really do not even care about which side is right anymore anyway.
Golly, I apologize for the offensive language, chappy chap. I hope everything's darn tootin' now, cause I just edited the post so I don't get banned cause I shattered your eyes.
Was the snitch act really necessary? Jeezus, Yikes and Dangit!
Besides, you're newer than me for crying out loud!
Thats good, plz refrain from usin that kind of language without censoring again ^^, u don't want to transform us into those guys at Mangaspoiler…
@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:
I'm hoping the guy is being extremely sarcastic and not that much of a dumbass.
16 hear, hears
I still had to edit my post though.
LOL, now that he's answered, I'm still not sure!!! He could be very good at this.
@flandrian: glad I actually wrote what you meant and haven't been talking out of my ass this whole time.
Thats good, plz refrain from usin that kind of language without censoring again ^^, u don't want to transform us into those guys at Mangaspoiler…
Is this your act or are you not familiar with AP forums at all?
Well, if you decide to use math in your arguments better make sure it's correct. Because the math police is out on patrol tonight! But yeah if I do point out something like this then I'm not attacking your whole argument. Besides the 50% thing you might have been very well correct but this whole predictability discussion seemed to be propelled by some trolling so I didn't pay too much attention to it tbh.
It looks like Hancock or Jimbei could join the Strawhat crew considering their relationships with Luffy and their present endevours.
Or you can not join the argument and ignore it since you have nothing meaningful to add to it.
OH hey guys look. What a decent response to my post.
I asked a fundamental question to what you guys have been talking about since the last 4 pages. And you say it's not meaningful? Did you just ignore everything we've been talking about? What have you even contributed?
Also, my last sentence was sarcastic. Do I need to insert sarcasm hint in my sentences.
This thread breaks my nails and shatters my virgin eyes.
@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:
Yes it was. Now start doing it.
You're exactly the reason why this forum is so great. :sad:
You're exactly the reason why this forum is so great. :sad:
I won't take all the credit.
Qucik question:
So who do you all think won this war seriously?
If you look at it objectivly the marines did but,
You also have to take into consideration the casualties they suffered in the process of bringing down white beard and ace. Also th efact that they have been experimenting on humans has been exposed. As well as black beards betrayal and the fall of impel down in the process.
Its like the marines loss about 50 percent of their power and their marine ford is wrecked. Granted the WB pirates didn't get what they came for but its like entering a commander entering into battle and losing all his troops in the process. 80 percent of his troops in the process. Then in front of the World, Shanks (a pirate) put them in check. He stopped the war and took the bodies of the 2 main pirates that they killed. While they did manage to bring down a few pirates they loss so much in the process(as well as the faith of some of their troops)
By the way I still SAY luffy MADE Whitebeard hold back! It would have been a different story if he had never have come. (he was in whitebeards line of attack the entire war starting from when Whitebeard first jumped off the ship jumped off the ship, in The man that rocks the world:http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/12/)
Marines in the lead. With the revolutionaries behind them in w/e they did while there were no marines to stop them.
WB pirates FAILED epically. Luffy's right behind them with Jinbei not far behind.
Thing about marine casualties is that those injured marines will heal and the marines can always recruit more men to help their cause. I don't have a doubt there'll be a bunch of fools wanting to be marines along with a bunch of inspired ppl who actually want to be marines after news spread.
I'm sure other yonkou and NW pirates who wanted WB's spot benefit from this in some way too.
By the way I still SAY luffy MADE Whitebeard hold back! It would have been a different story if he had never have come. (he was in whitebeards line of attack the entire war starting from when Whitebeard first jumped off the ship jumped off the ship, in The man that rocks the world:http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/12/)
If this is case, that's just sad for both ppl. We(most of us) knew WB was gonna die and half way in it we knew he was expecting to die but if he held back with some dumb logic that Luffy was in his way or that it'd be nice to see Ace's brother save him instead of his "pops" then obviously w/e WB was sick with also involved some severe case of brain deterioration even before Akainu took half of it.
IMO there wasn't a winner.
Although, if I had to say somebody won, I would say it was BB.
Hmm that is difficult to decide. Well both sides left with a bang. You have WB and Ace dead which is tremendous achievement if you think about it from the Marines side. They always wanted WB dead. And that should cause an imbalance to the power of the world.
On the other hand you have BB with even more power than before thanks to WB's death. WB left with a bang and caused and even more burst and a new generation of stronger pirates. Also, luffy escapes.
Thats good, plz refrain from usin that kind of language without censoring again ^^, u don't want to transform us into those guys at Mangaspoiler…
Wow I just noticed this. It actually made me laugh out loud.
Oh yeah BB. He won but what he wanted(infamy so he can cement his place in the new era) overall just fell in to place for him.
Qucik question:
So who do you all think won this war seriously?
If you look at it objectivly the marines did but,
Marines did. The major minuses against them is that Whitebeard has inspired a whole host of people to take to the seas a la Roger and that Blackbeard is revealed as a future terror.
You also have to take into consideration the casualties they suffered in the process of bringing down white beard and ace.
Only cannon fodder, they haven't lost a single big name in this war. The pirates suffered faaaaaaar worse.
Also th efact that they have been experimenting on humans has been exposed.
The Pacifista? I don't think so, they're all robotic clones of Kuma as far as the world is concerned, there hasn't been any indication to suggest this is a factor in public thinking.
As well as black beards betrayal
This is a big indictment as I pointed out but it isn't a Marine problem, the Shichibukai are WG employees and it's they who fucked up royally. Sengoku still refers to all the Shichibukai as "scum".
and the fall of impel down in the process.
Again a World Government facility however I doubt it has been taken out fully, it is still probably operational and I can't see Magellan being taken out, especially after he dealt with Blackbeard so easily. Maybe the level 6 prisoners have some abilities to help out but I doubt it, they're weaker than Teach after all.
This is all ignoring the fact Impel Down can be fortified again.
Its like the marines loss about 50 percent of their power
Bullshit.
and their marine ford is wrecked.
Easily rebuilt.
Granted the WB pirates didn't get what they came for but its like entering a commander entering into battle and losing all his troops in the process. 80 percent of his troops in the process.
What big names have the Marines lost here? None whatsoever. John Giant maybe but we've seen the other giants running about after being dealt with by Whitebeard.
The Marines emphatically came out on top in the battle.
Then in front of the World, Shanks (a pirate) put them in check. He stopped the war and took the bodies of the 2 main pirates that they killed.
Sengoku agreed to that. Also note that it took Whitebeard and his 1600 men plus 42 New World crews to mount a siege on Marineford, Shanks has shown up with a handful of people; sure they can give the Marines a fight and give them some real losses but they would eventually lose too. It was a mutual retreat from both parties.
While they did manage to bring down a few pirates
Whitebeard the "World's Strongest Man" and Ace "the Pirate King's Son" are not just a few pirates, they are the biggest enemies the Marines and WG have seen for a long long time. This is a fantastic Marine victory simply because the public saw Whitebeard die.
they loss so much in the process(as well as the faith of some of their troops)
They haven't really lost anything that can't be rebuilt and they've put themselves in a stronger position by taking out one of the big powers of the world.
As for troop faith, the Marines aren't an organisation that jackboots their own soldiers (for the most part lol), I mean Garp the "Hero of the Marines" is proof positive of that fact. Aokiji is proof of that. They all have their own views of justice, and that's all that was shown here. They're still loyal to the Marines just like Garp is just like Aokiji and just like Smoker.
By the way I still SAY luffy MADE Whitebeard hold back!
Whitebeard lent his full power to Luffy, wtf are you on about? He told his boys to back up Luffy all the way. Whitebeard was on top of his game until he got shanked in the gut.
It would have been a different story if he had never have come.
It wouldn't, Akainu would have still manipulated Squad, Whitebeard would still get stabbed, the pirates would still get trapped and Akainu would send them into hell.
Hell, if Luffy didn't come that would mean Ivankov and Inazuma wouldn't have, which, therefore, would mean the Pirates wouldn't even get to the platform!
(he was in whitebeards line of attack the entire war starting from when Whitebeard first jumped off the ship jumped off the ship, in The man that rocks the world:http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/12/)
Luffy wasn't the only one "in Whitebeard's line of attack", in case you missed it, thousands of soldiers and loyal Commanders were leading the attack long before Whitebeard entered the fray.
So who do you all think won this war seriously?
Looks at totaled headquarters. Looks at dead captain. Looks at gorge splitting the island in half. Looks at dead rescue target. Looks at psychotic admiral. Looks at psychotic cheat code user. Looks at possible schism forming between Justices and marines. Looks at emotionally destroyed crew. Looks at really eager marines. Looks a Moria. Looks at red haired badass.
Between marines and Whitebeard? No one. An argument for Shanks is possible.
Between the world and Blackbeard? Blackbeard.
in regards to maggelen, cart bb use his powers to nullify the effect of his abilitys? then shiryru just needs to slash him to kill him… if iam correct bb needs to get hit first to be able to nullify df powers so iam pretty sure imple down is a mess
I know that the last couple arcs were important to the story and everything, and a lot of really badass fights are happening, but I can't really say i've enjoyed them that much. I started rewatching the anime and my god is it better than where they are now. I know a lot of people love seeing whitebeard and shanks and akainu etc. fighting, but I'm getting kinda bored of seeing who's stronger. I really can't wait for the crew to get back together and go on some adventures again. Me and my friends all agree that one piece is great, but if oda made the pictures from the color walks into arcs, holy balls.
This was merged with the chapter thread, so some people probably didn't see it, but I feel the same way. It seems as if Oda's pitting big names against each other just to please fans. If OP was always what the fans wanted… shudders we'd have luffyko and zoroXsanji right now.
I think that, like in all wars no-one won. But I rly think its far more evident in this one. Whitebeard was already done, but then BB arrived and did everyone lol.
Who do you think will take over Blackbeard and Jimbei's spot as Shichibukai? We can see that Boa is still officially one from her last panel but do you think the two places will be filled with unknown pirates or ones who have already been a major part of the storyline?
Well my point about whitebeard holding back is obejctive, but what brought me to this conclusion was the fact that, After Whitebeard's inital quake that threw everyone off balance he didn't utilize this move again after he saw luffy nearly fall through the ice. (And yes he did see this, the look on his face after says it all.)Luffy was in front of him the entire time when the rest of the WB pirates fell back and started supporting White beard. Whitebeard being the forerunner instead of luffy would have had tremendously different results. For 3 reasons.
1: He would not have had the extra (and unnecessary) hinder of watching over/out for luffy.
2:He would have been able to Unleash more destructive power similar to what Blackbeard was doing at the end, except more controlled since he had been using his powers for years.
3: Do you really think a man of Whitebeard's caliber did not have a plan of his own for getting Ace off the platform prior to arriving. I'm pretty sure it didn't involve backing up a Rookie with 1/100th of the experience he had, but, Luffy charmed him (as he always dose) and made him believe he could save ace. And the old genuinely always leave the future to the young, that's just how it goes.
If no one noticed after Whitebeared quaked the place and saw luffy nearly fall through the ice. He took on an entirely different fighting strategy.
But after all this is just my opinion.
At any rate Back on topic: The marines suffered thousands of casualties, and hundreds dead, as well as having their base of operations destroyed, which will take time and cost tremendously in man power and founds to rebuild. The hundreds (or thousands, not sure at the moment) of the "fodder" marines that are dead and injured are not to be overlooked. As the saying goes A commander without troops is like a head without a body.
That's why I estimated them to be at a 50 percent loss. Troops matter believe it or not.
Especially when you consider the job of Marines.
Think of them as a the LAPD who just had a shoot out with some random gang, and loss hundreds of their "fodder" police officers.
Now they are in no shape to protect the city (or in this case the world), from the other gangs.
SO as far as who accomplished their goals then yeah you would say the marines won, But now they no longer have the means to fully protect the world against the likes of, the pirates and rebels. (This is why, Dragon has not appeared yet in such a pivotal time, this whole arc simply played right into his hands!)
So in reality the Marines and the world government loss this, and in the next few chapters we will start seeing why Ace and Whitebeard's heads where not worth these casualties.
Also, Whitebeard wasn't even a danger honestly he did more good than bad. In the end he just wanted to chill peacefully with his family and die of old age. I mean the man even said he had no care of fame, legacies, or treasure. (we all know how most pirates acquire these things). Whitebeard just wanted to be free and protect the family he created and loved so much-a true pops
I hope more lvl 6 prisoners escaped form ID.
@BugcatcherWilliam:
Who do you think will take over Blackbeard and Jimbei's spot as Shichibukai?
I said it before and I'll say it again. Tomson Roche and George Black, you heard it here first (but possibly not for the first time from me).
Side theory: Those two guys happen to save Bentham as they escape from ID.
Who do you think will take over Blackbeard and Jimbei's spot as Shichibukai? We can see that Boa is still officially one from her last panel but do you think the two places will be filled with unknown pirates or ones who have already been a major part of the storyline?
Well, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for Buggy to fill one of those empty spots since he's got all this evidence suggesting that he's a great pirate…even if he's actually not as great as the Marines might think.
As for the other spot, who knows? I can't think of any existing pirates that might work except for Crocodile, though I don't see him wanting his old job back. So probably a new face, unless Oda brings some of the East Blue antagonists out of hiding (I'm looking at you Kuro).
The new Warlords will likely fit the animal name theme again. They'll probably be new characters, too. Can't really see any existing characters getting drafted to Warlorddom.
Who do you think will take over Blackbeard and Jimbei's spot as Shichibukai? We can see that Boa is still officially one from her last panel but do you think the two places will be filled with unknown pirates or ones who have already been a major part of the storyline?
i think that since almost all the shichibukai back stabbed the marines, the logical consequence will be a dissolution of that system and an introduction of a new one to maintain the balance or nothing at all, since there're only three yonkous left and everything's out of balance that they have to wait how everything turns out before they do their next step.
i think that since almost all the shichibukai back stabbed the marines, the logical consequence will be a dissolution of that system and an introduction of a new one to maintain the balance or nothing at all, since there're only three yonkous left and everything's out of balance that they have to wait how everything turns out before they do their next step.
Doing this makes no sense. Just because there's 3 of the 4 yonkou left does not mean the WG could do away with the shichibukai altogether and expect the marines to handle them one on one.
The WG have the advantage in the imbalance of powers as of now. It'd make no sense to balance it by doing away with 5 powerful pirates who played an integral part in why you were even successful in this war to begin with.
Doing away with the shichibukai would be like the U.S. doing away with nuclear weapons after WW2(In this example the atomic bomb is the shichibukai and Nagasaki & Hiroshima are fodder WB/NW pirates and Oars Jr.).
Buggy is a great pirate!
Buggy is the proverbial ussop. he did all that shit with roger an them.
wrong. Buggy wants to be like Buggy, Usopp does not
@AdmiralYonkouMt.Bandit:
Doing this makes no sense. Just because there's 3 of the 4 yonkou left does not mean the WG could do away with the shichibukai altogether and expect the marines to handle them one on one.
The WG have the advantage in the imbalance of powers as of now. It'd make no sense to balance it by doing away with 5 powerful pirates who played an integral part in why you were even successful in this war to begin with.
Doing away with the shichibukai would be like the U.S. doing away with nuclear weapons after WW2(In this example the atomic bomb is the shichibukai and Nagasaki & Hiroshima are fodder WB/NW pirates and Oars Jr.).
yeah well, that's not what i meant, actually i meant that they won't change anything before they see how the world balance turns out with the loss of the strongest yonkou and than do something.
also, i think that the outcome of the war wouldn't have changed without the shichibukai. it may have been even easier for them to achieve what they wanted. Because without the shichibukai status luffy couldn't have infiltrated impel down and bring ivankox, inazuma, croc, jimbei, and half the prisoners of impel down and so on with him to the war and bb couldn't get his new members and enter the war. also during the war the only significant thing they did was "killing" oars and i doubt the marines couldn't have done it themselves. boa even helped luffy freeing ace by holding of smoker and the pacifistas.
yeah well, that's not what i meant, actually i meant that they won't change anything before they see how the world balance turns out with the loss of the strongest yonkou and than do something.
also, i think that the outcome of the war wouldn't have changed without the shichibukai. it may have been even easier for them to achieve what they wanted. Because without the shichibukai status luffy couldn't have infiltrated impel down and bring ivankox, inazuma, croc, jimbei, and half the prisoners of impel down and so on with him to the war and bb couldn't get his new members and enter the war. also during the war the only significant thing they did was "killing" oars and i doubt the marines couldn't have done it themselves. boa even helped luffy freeing ace by holding of smoker and the pacifistas.
If the marines could've killed Oars Jr. they should've done it.
You also underestimate the significance of taking out fodder pirates off screen. It takes up time and energy. Time and energy ppl like Akainu doesn't have to be wasting constantly when he can be killing important characters. Besides you could argue anybody could've done anything but guess what they didn't. Aokiji's too lazy and Kizaru's too distracted.
The argument that things would've been easier without the shichibukai because of what Hancock did is irrelevant. If she didn't do that Oda would've just had somebody else take Luffy there and some other characters would've aided him in escape.
i see the whole war like this it was away to show us future enemy and there strengths while not giving to much away so we to be surprised later and show us that he can keep us guessing
Tomson Roche and George Black, who the hell ar these guys were are they mentiond chapter please
@Eustlass:
Tomson Roche and George Black, who the hell ar these guys were are they mentiond chapter please
Either Ivankov mentioned them or they were on the list of prisoners Bon Clay was reading.
@Eustlass:
Tomson Roche and George Black, who the hell ar these guys were are they mentiond chapter please
Two Level 5 guys from Impel Down. Their names were seen on a list read by Mr. 2 as Hannybal. This being One Piece where the most minor detail can be important later on, most think that they will show up in the future, like the three Level Six prisoners did.
@S.C.:
Two Level 5 guys from Impel Down. Their names were seen on a list read by Mr. 2 as Hannybal. This being One Piece where the most minor detail can be important later on, most think that they will show up in the future, like the three Level Six prisoners did.
Probably we will see them under captain Buggy orders. Do you think Buggy will reunite with Mohji and Cabaji??? Or he is going to create the new Buggy pirates??
I bet the next arc will be called Post-Marineford arc.
I bet the next arc will be called Post-Marineford arc.
O will be called After a lot of years, let's go to the fucking FI right now!!!
about the shichibukai replacement.
Since the shichibukai were created to cope with the current or past era (era of great piracy) and since the author-boxes (as well as several characters) stated that the era is coming to a close here and now, I can see the WG abolishing the Shichibukai after the loss of two/three/four (since kuma does not need it anymore) of their memebers.
for example, I can see Sen Goku getting the can for screwing the pooch so hard on this one (letting Marineford be destroyed, listening to red hair, giving him wbs and ace's corpses etc. even some regular soldiers were upset about that one) and Aka Inu taking over.
If that is the case, then I can see him pressuering the WG to abolish the Shichibukai, since all they do is betraying the government (Blackbeard, Jimbei and Boa being the obvious current examples, crocodile and old one) and there is no room for pirates under 'absolute justice'.
If that is NOt the case, then Gin for Shichibukai!