@The:
Well, there was that one time I remember Guts and Griffith splashing each other… while naked.
There is definitely something sexual with wanting to assert dominance over someone, and it could be perceived as homosexual with it being Griffith over Guts. Frankly, I've always seen Griffith as asexual, and only using his sex to help him achieve what he wants (like with Charlotte).
Or with the one king who paid him.
Oh, there's definitely a gay overtone there, if nothing else everyone making jokes about it for years has made it the case. (And Griffith is kinda femmy to begin with.) The author definitely has the implication built in there.
But I think mostly sex means nothing to him, (since he can't respect anyone, he can't love anyone) its all a means to an end. He slept with the one guy to get funding for his armies, but felt nothing there at all. He tried sleeping with the princess to burn away his emotions, and given his wide eyed expression, felt nothing there either. Its an element in there, but a very minor one compared to everything else.
Can't there be a bond between two men that respect and need each other without it being gay?
@RobbyBevard:
Can't there be a bond between two men that respect and need each other without it being gay?
Of course. You and Monkey King appear to be all over each other but it's just two men somehow finding mutual respect in each other. But Griffith crossed that line when he started banging guys.
@RobbyBevard:
Can't there be a bond between two men that respect and need each other without it being gay?
I didn't see you backing this argument up on the Hunter x Hunter thread.
And the lamb lies down on Broadway
I didn't see you backing this argument up on the Hunter x Hunter thread.
Because its not the same argument.
I'd never make the argument that Goku and Vegeta are gay, because they aren't. I wouldn't for Yusuke and Kuwabara either. But Hiei and Kurama? Eh, could be, but theres not enough there I'd make a real argument about it.
Killua is in love with Gon. That could turn into something else when they get older, but its not a thing currently. They're kids, and I expect Gon to turn out straight, and Killua will never make a point of it. That's love, not just respect and camaraderie in there. The emotional breakdown Killua had over even falsley perceiving Gon choosing a girl over him says how deep that goes.
Guts respects and idolizes Griffith and wants to be his friend. And Griffith wants to use Guts as a tool. (And even specifically says Guts is NOT his friend, due to his lack of dream, which is what screws everything up.) It breaks him once Guts stops being so, and thats a super complicated thing, (More complicated than even Griffith himself knew) and Caska is sort of in the middle of it and ends up being a display of who is in control between them.
Gon and Killua are still kids. Guts is very clearly straight. Griffith is more asexual, but most of his advances, pretense or not, are towards Charlotte, (But there is no love there on his side, all an act) and after becoming Femto and having Guts at his Mercy, its Caska he decides to violate, in a display of "I'm better than you once again". Griffith and Guts is WAY more complicated than just "Griffith thinks Guts is hot and wants him in bed." And Guts most certainly does NOT.
Both complicated and very different relationships. In neither case do I think sex is a major factor. It might be an undertone to both, but… not a major factor in either.
@RobbyBevard:
Beowulf and Conan the Barbarian are noted inspirations, right?
Its weird that after Berserk Conan is the UPBEAT traveling swordsman…
Any idea what some of the other inspirations are?
I wish I can gather a whole list of this stuff now, but I misplaced this book I had that had quite alot of demonology figures/creatures that I've seen in Berserk and other media like Dark/Demon Souls. Why was I interested in such a thing years ago, I don't know.
I DO remember there was an image that has compares some architectural structures that was most likely used for direct reference. It was posted in this topic. Not sure by who or on which page.
@RobbyBevard:
Because its not the same argument.
I'd never make the argument that Goku and Vegeta are gay, because they aren't. I wouldn't for Yusuke and Kuwabara either. But Hiei and Kurama? Eh, could be, but theres not enough there I'd make a real argument about it.
Killua is in love with Gon. That could turn into something else when they get older, but its not a thing currently. They're kids, and I expect Gon to turn out straight, and Killua will never make a point of it. That's love, not just respect and camaraderie in there. The emotional breakdown Killua had over even falsley perceiving Gon choosing a girl over him says how deep that goes.
Guts respects and idolizes Griffith and wants to be his friend. And Griffith wants to use Guts as a tool. (And even specifically says Guts is NOT his friend, due to his lack of dream, which is what screws everything up.) It breaks him once Guts stops being so, and thats a super complicated thing, (More complicated than even Griffith himself knew) and Caska is sort of in the middle of it and ends up being a display of who is in control between them.
Gon and Killua are still kids. Guts is very clearly straight. Griffith is more asexual, but most of his advances, pretense or not, are towards Charlotte, (But there is no love there on his side, all an act) and after becoming Femto and having Guts at his Mercy, its Caska he decides to violate, in a display of "I'm better than you once again". Griffith and Guts is WAY more complicated than just "Griffith thinks Guts is hot and wants him in bed." And Guts most certainly does NOT.
Both complicated and very different relationships. In neither case do I think sex is a major factor. It might be an undertone to both, but… not a major factor in either.
Stage One: Denial, but yeah that's OK. We'll come back to this once you're ready to talk about it. Anyway, change of direction. Was there any point where Griffith's dream was noble? Part of me feels that had he been ignorant of the Beheliet (I know I fucked that up) he might have been satisfied just leading a band of mercenaries.
I wish I can gather a whole list of this stuff now, but I misplaced this book I had that had quite alot of demonology figures/creatures that I've seen in Berserk and other media like Dark/Demon Souls. Why was I interested in such a thing years ago, I don't know.
I DO remember there was an image that has compares some architectural structures that was most likely used for direct reference. It was posted in this topic. Not sure by who or on which page.
Pretty sure some of the architectural designs are influenced by Escher, with demons/creatures being very similar to those in Hellraiser.
@RobbyBevard:
Beowulf and Conan the Barbarian are noted inspirations, right?
Its weird that after Berserk Conan is the UPBEAT traveling swordsman…
Any idea what some of the other inspirations are?
Yo dawg, are you being sarcastic?
Griffith always wanted to be king. He was never going to settle with just leading a mercenary band. That was just a means to an end.
Demon King was an opportunity he didn't expect that of course he accepted given the chance.
Yo dawg, are you being sarcastic?
No. I've read interviews before. He notes Beowulf and Conan as inspirations, and I remember he listed off other stuff as well. But I can't remember what.
I'm double checking my facts and asking for a refresher on others that I've forgotten because I find it interesting.
@XerXes:
Stage One: Denial, but yeah that's OK. We'll come back to this once you're ready to talk about it. Anyway, change of direction. Was there any point where Griffith's dream was noble? Part of me feels that had he been ignorant of the Beheliet (I know I fucked that up) he might have been satisfied just leading a band of mercenaries.
As Robby said,he always wanted to be king.That's why he lived for and that's why he thinks like that about friendship.
@RobbyBevard:
Griffith always wanted to be king. He was never going to settle with just leading a mercenary band. That was just a means to an end.
Demon King was an opportunity he didn't expect that of course he accepted given the chance.
No. I've read interviews before. He notes Beowulf and Conan as inspirations, and I remember he listed off other stuff as well. But I can't remember what.
I'm double checking my facts and asking for a refresher on others that I've forgotten.
Is it inherently wrong to want to be a king?
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Griffith seems more Machiavellian than evil. Well, before he became a godhand anyway.
@RobbyBevard:
No. I've read interviews before. He notes Beowulf and Conan as inspirations, and I remember he listed off other stuff as well. But I can't remember what.
I'm double checking my facts and asking for a refresher on others that I've forgotten because I find it interesting.
Awesome :D.
I just read that the game Dragons Dogma has some blatant Berserk references to help advertise the movie(s). Like specific sets of armor and weapons. I'm stoked to check them out.
EDIT:
!
If you have a reason for it, not really anything wrong just in wanting to be at the top.
But when presented with the sheer body count that was going to be involved in getting there, and then accepting it? Knowing how many would have to die for Griffith to become a king? Willingly sacrificing hundreds of guys you've known for years? Yeah, that's pretty messed up.
Though in the long run he may be the savior of the world that makes everything work out, so… who knows.
Awesome :D.
I just read that the game Dragons Dogma has some blatant Berserk references to help advertise the movie(s). Like specific sets of armor and weapons. I'm stoked to check them out.
I know Dynasty Warriors for a while was making Fu Xi's final weapon a GIANT FLAT BLADE, named the "Dragon Slayer."
@RobbyBevard:
If you have a reason for it, not really anything wrong just in wanting to be at the top.
But when presented with the sheer body count that was going to be involved in getting there, and then accepting it? Knowing how many would have to die for Griffith to become a king? Willingly sacrificing hundreds of guys you've known for years? Yeah, that's pretty messed up.
Though in the long run he may be the savior of the world that makes everything work out, so… who knows.
Lol well that's a matter of perspective then isn't it. Let's look at manga:
In real life we have
I'd argue that until that point where Griffith allowed himself to be corrupting by the beliet (however its spelled) he was no different from any other person that history teaches us to call great men.
@XerXes:
In real life we have
- Alexander the Great
- Atila the Hun
Are you seriously trying to argue this stupid point using people from Antiquity? If Alexander and Attila existed today they would be considered monsters. In fact Attila was considered a monster even in his own time.
The only reason Alexander wasn't was because he's become tangled in both a silly national myth for Greeks and because he's become an extremely weak defense point for idiots who adher to the clash of civilizations model. He ain't seen so hot in Iran.
Griffith did a ton of stuff, for no reason. To become king. So what? That's not a cause.
Alexander and Attila were the same, they weren't fighting for a cause beyond conquest. They destroyed a bunch then died suddenly and their "achievements" collapsed almost immediately. At best leaving bizarre cultural impressions behind. Persia even came back eventually.
history teaches us to call great men.
Either you've never learned History, or you somehow managed to learn it in like 1957.
Stick to the terrible whiny homophobic jokes. Or better yet just stop posting. Bad history and trying to look manly after admitting to being afraid of a comic book both aren't very attractive options you have to admit.
@Monkey:
Are you seriously trying to argue this stupid point using people from Antiquity? If Alexander and Attila existed today they would be considered monsters. In fact Attila was considered a monster even in his own time.
The only reason Alexander wasn't was because he's become tangled in both a silly national myth for Greeks and because he's become an extremely weak defense point for idiots who adher to the clash of civilizations model. He ain't seen so hot in Iran.Griffith did a ton of stuff, for no reason. To become king. So what? That's not a cause.
Alexander and Attila were the same, they weren't fighting for a cause beyond conquest. They destroyed a bunch then died suddenly and their "achievements" collapsed almost immediately. At best leaving bizarre cultural impressions behind. Persia even came back eventually.Either you've never learned History, or you somehow managed to learn it in like 1957.
Stick to the terrible whiny homophobic jokes. Or better yet just stop posting. Bad history and trying to look manly after admitting to being afraid of a comic book both aren't very attractive options you have to admit.
Are you getting defensive over a comic book? You jenga as fuck. Look dude this is my niche. I'm good at playing devil's advocate, you're good at taking it up the ass. The deeds of Western Civ are about as blood drenched as the deeds of the East and each respect corner of the world holds their history to be a holy relic. Doesn't matter how bloodthirsty or monstrous a historical figure was, they're heralded in the history books as a hero. Except if your name happens to be Stalin, Hitler, Bin Laden, Hussein, or Monkey King.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
And seriously dude, calm the fuck down. It really looks like comic books are the only thing you have going on in your life. Even if that's true you should at least try to save face.
@XerXes:
Are you getting defensive over a comic book?
And you aren't?
!
Reading : Homunculus, Blade of the Immortal
Watching : Serial Experiments Lain, Texhnolyze
@XerXes:
I'm good at playing devil's advocate, you're good at taking it up the ass.
Remember, you're completely innocent and getting picked on for no reason whatsoever.
And you aren't?
! http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/puppet_facepalm.gif
Nah. I just get a kick out of guys like Monkey King doing it though. You don't have to put gifs in spoilers. Grow a pair.
@RobbyBevard:
Remember, you're completely innocent and getting picked on for no reason whatsoever.
Which is why I said I was playing devil's advocate. Didn't say I actually was a devil's advocate.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
We all know Griffith is a horribly corrupt sexual deviant who would make Caligula blush. But in the interest of fairness I wanted to explore his character. If Monkey King can take it up the ass and be considered a good person by the lot of you (and he isn't a good person for the record) then it stands to reason that this might apply to others as well. I'm fully aware that Griffith was irredeemable from the start but I wanted to explore his character. If Berserk is a deep as you guys believe then why would this introspection into Griffith's character strike such a controversial chord?
@XerXes:
If Monkey King can take it up the ass and be considered a good person by the lot of you (and he isn't a good person for the record)
I read all your posts in Bale's Batman voice, just so you know.
Wow, this one's really weird to hear in my head.
@XerXes:
Are you getting defensive over a comic book?
lol really? God you're like a walking ball of all the alreadychewedgum shit poster cliches. Except unlike an ordinary shitposter you're all mismatched with the crap.
Like one post it's "WHOA BRO, STILL POSTING? SRY I DUCKED OUT TO THE GYM", then next it's "I-I-IM TELLING THE MODS! YOU ARE VERY RUDE!".
If you want to seem confident just stick to one persona.
Look dude this is my niche.
oh shit lol, did you really just… haha
No, don't.
Don't do this please.
You don't want to do this with this subject lol.
I'm good at playing devil's advocate, you're good at taking it up the ass.
DID I MENTION HOW GAY YOU ARE?
The deeds of Western Civ
Doesn't really exist, let's get real. Or at least the term is misleading.
But I guess it's easier to say than "greekthingsthatgotpassedtoromethenthearabsthentoitalyandthentowesterneuropeandthentotheenlightementwhichwasmostlyinprotestanteuropeanyway"
Which is ideals of democracy and secular stuff mostly. Doesn't have much to do with conquest for conquest's sake. In fact it has nothing to do with it.
Alexander had nothing to do with pretty much any of that anyway, he was a tyrant who conquered (well his dad) the democratic Polis's in the first place lol. He really has nothing at all to do with Western Civ. Democracy didn't get spread along his empire at all.
The mid-east only got into that stuff later when the Caliphates took Byzantine cities and found all the cool Greek knowledge stuff. Like in the Alexandrian library.
More credit is due to the Enlightenment for our modern western world.
The ancient Greeks weren't secular btw, they thought a lot of their philosophers we adore today were horrible heathen kooks for their crazy talk.
are about as blood drenched as the deeds of the East
There is no "east" yo.
There's like a dozen completely different world sections that are "the East". One of which is the Greeks post-Rome lol (Orthodox world).
Oh and tell me how those bloody conquests for conquests sake advanced democracy, secularism, and the enlightenment.
I could even give some controversial examples myself (fatalistic ones based on luck mostly), but let's see you walk the walk first lol.
and each respect corner of the world holds their history to be a holy relic.
Yes, the Greeks for instance are wild patriotic fanatics that would never agree that Alexander is at best a folk hero, and is no realistic idol for any reason. No Greek would ever do this thing. Correct is what you are. You.
Doesn't matter how bloodthirsty or monstrous a historical figure was, they're heralded in the history books as a hero.
Boy you ain't ever picked a history book up lol. Come on now, you ain't pullin one over on ol' Zeph in this department.
Except if your name happens to be Stalin, Hitler, Bin Laden, Hussein, or Monkey King.
Notice how those are all modern figures. Maybe like the world has changed or something since Alexander was around….
Also the conquest and destruction of your posts by me is a humanitarian action sanctioned by all the charter members of this forum.
@RobbyBevard:
No. I've read interviews before. He notes Beowulf and Conan as inspirations, and I remember he listed off other stuff as well. But I can't remember what.
I kinda remember reading that Guin Saga was one of the inspirations.
Yeah, Guin saga, that's the one I couldn't remember!
Shame that series is so long (and unfinished!) that it'll never really make it here.
@Monkey:
Alexander's become an extremely weak defense point for idiots who adher to the clash of civilizations model.
What do you mean by that
@Monkey:
lol really? God you're like a walking ball of all the alreadychewedgum shit poster cliches. Except unlike an ordinary shitposter you're all mismatched with the crap.
Like one post it's "WHOA BRO, STILL POSTING? SRY I DUCKED OUT TO THE GYM", then next it's "I-I-IM TELLING THE MODS! YOU ARE VERY RUDE!".
If you want to seem confident just stick to one persona.oh shit lol, did you really just… haha
No, don't.
Don't do this please.
You don't want to do this with this subject lol.DID I MENTION HOW GAY YOU ARE?
Doesn't really exist, let's get real. Or at least the term is misleading.
But I guess it's easier to say than "greekthingsthatgotpassedtoromethenthearabsthentoitalyandthentowesterneuropeandthentotheenlightementwhichwasmostlyinprotestanteuropeanyway"
Which is ideals of democracy and secular stuff mostly. Doesn't have much to do with conquest for conquest's sake. In fact it has nothing to do with it.
Alexander had nothing to do with pretty much any of that anyway, he was a tyrant who conquered (well his dad) the democratic Polis's in the first place lol. He really has nothing at all to do with Western Civ. Democracy didn't get spread along his empire at all.
The mid-east only got into that stuff later when the Caliphates took Byzantine cities and found all the cool Greek knowledge stuff. Like in the Alexandrian library.
More credit is due to the Enlightenment for our modern western world.
The ancient Greeks weren't secular btw, they thought a lot of their philosophers we adore today were horrible heathen kooks for their crazy talk.There is no "east" yo.
There's like a dozen completely different world sections that are "the East". One of which is the Greeks post-Rome lol (Orthodox world).Oh and tell me how those bloody conquests for conquests sake advanced democracy, secularism, and the enlightenment.
I could even give some controversial examples myself (fatalistic ones based on luck mostly), but let's see you walk the walk first lol.Yes, the Greeks for instance are wild patriotic fanatics that would never agree that Alexander is at best a folk hero, and is no realistic idol for any reason. No Greek would ever do this thing. Correct is what you are. You.
Boy you ain't ever picked a history book up lol. Come on now, you ain't pullin one over on ol' Zeph in this department.
Notice how those are all modern figures. Maybe like the world has changed or something since Alexander was around....
Also the conquest and destruction of your posts by me is a humanitarian action sanctioned by all the charter members of this forum.
Well! No dessert for you young man.
Well! You became boring fast.
Aw. I was starting to like that guy.
Man, he really had a hard on for Zephos. I mean with all that sodomy talk and all I'm surprised he was pretenging to be not gay.
To be honest, I expected much more of him. To stoop so low as to resort to such a boring retort after been given a small lecture in ancient history, the guy really let me down. Such a boring way to end what could have been means for killing some time.
I feel betrayed.
Guillotine came down cleanly on that one!
It was clear he wasn't long for this world.
But the best thing is when they don't know it.
Good show.
I was expecting more after all that.
Still, fun times.
@XerXes:
Well! No dessert for you young man.
I like how everyone who silently watched the show are leaving their impressions.
I'm so glad this forum weeds out morons.
I like how everyone who silently watched the show are leaving their impressions.
Insert humorous post about Xexrxes's lame personal attack and trying to be a primadonna victim
But yeah. Between the constant personal attacks with no good arguments behind them, he only just joined, so at least it didn't take as long as Legendary. He may have lasted longer if he was just going against Zephos…..but going after Robby for one sarcastic post was just dumb.
And to keep the thread on topic: Uh....so anyone think all the elves are small when they get to Elfhelm?
Well, the only time the Berserk thread gets a good revival is when we get a new moron who thinks they've "figured it out."
You take the good with the bad.
Aww :( I missed a party about Berserk!! Curse my working hours…
I didn't see his Berserk business, nor his Dark Knight business really (aside from when he started getting goofy on petty insults) but I think it's kind of sad because I had a short exchange with XerXes in the Final Fantasy thread that we both seemed to have liked.
It was a small moment, but I think he was a pretty okay guy and if he hadn't gotten really personal into this "I wanna get banned" business he could've worked out pretty alright, since it's not whether you disagree with someone, it's about how you conduct yourself … And I guess he just couldn't roll with it and be cool about it?
XerXes was an alright poster, I liked him. He had moxy. He just needed to grow thinker skin and learn when to drop an argument when it was done.
@The:
I didn't see his Berserk business, nor his Dark Knight business really (aside from when he started getting goofy on petty insults) but I think it's kind of sad because I had a short exchange with XerXes in the Final Fantasy thread that we both seemed to have liked.
It was a small moment, but I think he was a pretty okay guy and if he hadn't gotten really personal into this "I wanna get banned" business he could've worked out pretty alright, since it's not whether you disagree with someone, it's about how you conduct yourself … And I guess he just couldn't roll with it and be cool about it?
Well I'm not sure how cool you'd be with the homophobic insults lol.
I don't know about what the majority thinks or anything. Nor I really care for the majority.
He is a real interesting dude from what little exchanges we had. Mainly from the FF thread and other places.
It honestly felt like he's been around for years, so I'll give him some props for lap dancing or messing around with regular members here like it was nothing.
Then again, I'm easily amused. I think he could fit within AP quite well. Not with everyone, but who needs to?
haha, he was fucking horrible. If he had been a regular he would have been banned last April Fools with people like Aokiji and Almostlegendary.
Well shrug to that.
Got any more "what if" possibilities for times of past events?
Well shrug to that.
Got any more "what if" possibilities for times of past events?
There's nothing what if about a guy slinging homophobia and attacking ROBBY of all people not lasting past a day that got rid of people like AlmostLegendary lol.
There's nothing wrong with deeply exaggerating those things either.
edit: lol.
There's nothing wrong with deeply exaggerating those things either.
edit: lol.
How am I exeggerating? Not only did he do both of those, he even organized a package deal where we got them both at once with him talking about Robby and me being gay together or something.
Sounds like a great poster! What a loss!
That was… interesting. Reminded me of when I first joined the forum, posted a comment on this thread and got attacked by Monkey King and a few others... Then again, I didn't call everyone gay and tell them to shove something up their ass... To be honest, I'm sure this guy'll be back. With another account, but he'll be back...
