Berserk

[THE SEA]

@Kareem:

Hey MK can you start posting in the other manga/anime section of the forums. It's ever so much fun to see you ripping on the less intelligent (we just need Juju back, as dumb as that kid was, he made for some fun discussions).

At the beginning you were a nice, friendly, peaceful member. How do humans change so fast?
And I don't like this chapter. The thought process for it is nothing special. People can enjoy it for the art, action but I am stuffed with those stuff. Critically, viewing in a larger scale, it's not really that bad, but it bores me.

[Kareem Said]

@THE:

At the beginning you were a nice, friendly, peaceful member. How do humans change so fast?
And I don't like this chapter. The thought process for it is nothing special. People can enjoy it for the art, action but I stuffed with those stuff. Critically it's not really bad, but it bores me.

I still try to be respectful of other people who I actually respect (you're one of them, you know a lot about manga) and I always think about what I post. Sorry if you thought the tone of that post was malicious. Perhaps I should re-phrase it. I have fun with Zephos/Jerk Disease/Monkey King's (are we not hiding it anymore) debates, I find them amusing. And I liked having Juju around because debating him on Naruto's quality (or lack thereof) was fun. Maybe I shouldn't have called him an idiot, perhaps that was too far. Maybe it's not so much intelligence as it is experience and thought process when dealing with manga.

I do agree with you though, I don't really know what Miura is trying to do with this arc, it feels like a detour. I want to see them get to Elfhelm or see what Griffith is planning to do with Midland (sorry, Falconia) that's much more interesting. But let's just wait until this arc ends to see what this little detour has to do with the Fantasia arc as a whole. Have faith in Miura. I personally think that the Fantasia arc is a wonderful idea with vast amounts of potential. And I don't find the chapters unenjoyable, they're fine, just not on par with older Berserk chapters. Once again, we'll see where Miura takes it.

[Gliblord]

This is his breather arc. That's all there is to it.

Evidence: Silly pirates.

[Kareem Said]

@Gliblord:

This is his breather arc. That's all there is to it.

Evidence: Silly pirates.

That's a good point, but when your series essentially comes out monthly I really don't feel like there should be "breather arcs", everything should impact the story in some way, and if it doesn't then that's kind of a problem. Although we'll see what impact if this has any impact on the overall series. If nothing else it illustrates what damage can be done to our heroes by magical forces coming to the mundane world.

[THE SEA]

@Kareem:

Maybe I shouldn't have called him an idiot, perhaps that was too far.

Juju is an idiot.
–-----------------
I see that you still have not lost it. Which is for the best.

Miura's comment at the side page interests me more than the chapter itself though. Perhaps his work ethic is too intense so he is just trying to relax with this arc.

[Gliblord]

It's more a psychological breather for Miura, is what I meant. Something has to give, or else the man would get pretty unhinged by his own story methinks.

[Kareem Said]

@Gliblord:

It's more a psychological breather for Miura, is what I meant. Something has to give, or else the man would get pretty unhinged by his own story methinks.

Got a point there. I guess when you spend as much time on art as Miura, and when you're writing one of the most violent and depressing manga ever created (I know there are more violent and depressing though, which is a bit of a scary thought) you're entitled to a little break every now and then. Especially when you have all the time in the world. Although I find it odd that for Miura a "breather" is Guts diving into the mouth of a Sea God, who can turn people into disgusting tentacle creatures. That probably says a lot about what this series is like when it's serious (Note: not for children).

I remember when I was 13, I heard that Berserk was really good, I had also heard it was for older audiences. In all honesty I'm glad I read it when I was 16, because if I was younger than high school (maybe even early high school) I think it would have been a little much. Generally I think kids are made of sterner stuff than soccer moms give them credit for, but I have limits. I mean I wouldn't show End of Evangelion to anyone who's not high school age. For that matter, I'm not sure if I would show End of Evangelion to anyone at all.

[Gliblord]

Considering the series has graphic orgy scenes and troll/demon rape, yeah, not for thirteen-year-olds.

[Benjaman]

We are having a nice character development here and we also see the new characters in action so is all good for me. It wouldn`t feel like Berserk if they just took the ship and arrive to the elves kingdom without facing any kind of threat along the way. Much more now that the world is filled with all kind of new monsters.

[Zack]

I liked the latest chapter well enough, but it feels weird that Gutts knew about the whole 'air burp' thing. He doesn't seem like the type of person to have that type of knowledge unless he just picked it up somewhere through conservation or a book.

[Vanessa]

Considering Guts had to have taken care of his body on his own for at least two years since the Eclipse happened to finding Casca and gaining his current companions something that small isn't too out there to know.

Can't fix yourself up and not pick up some things in the process.

[Renegadesoul]

I find him highly intelligent. He is resourceful and can make use of anything available to him efficiently in battle even Serpico's plans are thwarted to some degree when they fought one on one. The man has remarkable observation skills which he not only utilize in battle but uses them to improve himself. Having knowledge on air pressure could have simply come from him experiencing a burp or from seeing a balloon burst. As far as I am concern, the man is a genius.

[Gliblord]

I like it when Guts is smart like that, while still a little reckless. It's a nice contrast with, well, the title of the series.

[Desperado]

What happens if a Behelit user sacrifices himself?

[Bobjr]

You probably can't sacrifice yourself, because that's against the entire point of using one.

[Desperado]

Unless you actually want to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of someone else.

[Bobjr]

@Desperado:

Unless you actually want to sacrifice yourself for the benefit of someone else.

So that person would essentially send themselves to hell just so someone else can become a grotesque demon looking thing that will also be damned to hell?

[tarrin4ever]

I'm pretty sure the sacrifices aren't anything more than a test of resolve for the one gaining the power, there isn't a trade/payment being made that the apostles are collecting save for a warm meal. Those poor people get murdered/eaten and that's it for them, their suffering ends. At least that's how I understand it, unless I missed a bit saying otherwise.

[Desperado]

@Bobjr:

So that person would essentially send themselves to hell just so someone else can become a grotesque demon looking thing that will also be damned to hell?

Effectively, the whole apostle process including the end consists of comitting selfish acts and getting your comeuppance once someone kills you. It would be quite consequential if a selfless act on the other hand resulted in the redemption of the participants.

[flandrian15]

Probably everyone that reads Berserk knows this by now but I just wanted to share this with all that may not know (source: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2011-01-05/berserk-project-to-be-theatrical-film):

News: Berserk to Get Theatrical Anime Film in 2011 (Updated)
posted on 2011-01-05 02:17 EST
Newtype: Film to be 1st part of adaptation of entire story
The February issue of Kadokawa Shoten's Newtype magazine is announcing on Saturday that the previously revealed Berserk project will begin with a theatrical film that will open in 2011. According to Newtype, the 2011 film will be the first part of a project that will adapt the entire story from Kentarou Miura's manga.

Greatness !!! THE ENTIRE STORY!!!
I wonder how much blood and gore and rape and the likes they are allowed to show.

[Sâuza]

Yea it's old news by now, but there's no exact date concerning any release date.

And there are at least 4 trailers showing post orgy caska and other stuff.

[flandrian15]

well, let us just pray that it is far greater than the previous anime because that anime is by far the worst anime I have seen (except for Naruto Shippuuden).
Anyway, looking at the trailers (which are very short BTW), the art looks quite beautiful. Looking forward to it.

[Sâuza]

@flandrian15:

well, let us just pray that it is far greater than the previous anime because that anime is by far the worst anime I have seen (except for Naruto Shippuuden).

It is far greater.

[Kareem Said]

@flandrian15:

well, let us just pray that it is far greater than the previous anime because that anime is by far the worst anime I have seen (except for Naruto Shippuuden).
Anyway, looking at the trailers (which are very short BTW), the art looks quite beautiful. Looking forward to it.

It wasn't so much that it was a bad adaptation it just had the worst animation I've ever seen in an anime. It had a great soundtrack though and voice acting was pretty damn good in both Japanese and English. And they got most of the Golden Age arc adapted, so I'd say you could do a lot worse than the Berserk anime. The strength of the writing and all that other stuff makes it a pretty good watch. You could definitely do worse.
This next adaptation still looks like it's going to be much better though.

[Robby]

@flandrian15:

well, let us just pray that it is far greater than the previous anime because that anime is by far the worst anime I have seen (except for Naruto Shippuuden).

But… the Berserk anime was good.

@Kareem:

It wasn't so much that it was a bad adaptation it just had the worst animation I've ever seen in an anime.

You people have strange standards. Or you haven't seen anything that was made before 1997.

Besides, atmosphere, music, voice acting, pacing and the story covered any flaws.

[antiravage]

@RobbyBevard:

But… the Berserk anime was good.

The problem is that the guy just watched like three animes in his whole life… not that hard to be the worst under those circumstances.

[Aaronrules380]

@RobbyBevard:

But… the Berserk anime was good.

You people have strange standards. Or you haven't seen anything that was made before 1997.
Besides, atmosphere, music, voice acting, pacing and the story covered any flaws.

I' pretty sure this is almost exactly it for Kareem, since from what I know of what he's watched, the only thing older than that he's seen is DBZ, which I remember as having better animation than Berserk

[RPGJay]

The only thing bad about the Berserk anime I can say (aside from it's abrupt ending) is that there was no Skull Knight.

Other than that it was great.

[flandrian15]

@antiravage:

The problem is that the guy just watched like three animes in his whole life… not that hard to be the worst under those circumstances.

Do you have any evidence to back your story up because I have been watching anime and reading manga for over 10+ years so it is quite obvious I have watch many more than just 3. Also, I don't mind older animation because I enjoyed the animation in for instance yu yu hakusho or dragonball just fine. It is the story that sucked for me. They start the anime at some weird point, there is no real portrayal of what the manga has concerning blood, gore, mature language, sex, rape and all other things making it a great seinen and the story doesn't really seem to go anywhere. The actual greatness of the story happens where the anime stops so YES, I think the anime sucked. This has nothing to do with the animation and I never even stated such a thing. Also, this is my personal opinion about this particular anime and I don't mind if anyone disagrees, I just didn't enjoy it at all.

[Kareem Said]

@RobbyBevard:

But… the Berserk anime was good.

You people have strange standards. Or you haven't seen anything that was made before 1997.

Besides, atmosphere, music, voice acting, pacing and the story covered any flaws.

Yeah I already set that. It's a good watch, but it does have crappy animation, but I suppose you're right in saying that other older series had sucky animation too.

[Aaronrules380]

The golden age arc was some of the best stuff in berserk. And seriously, you think its the blood, gore, language, sex, rape and such that make Berserk great? It isn't at all. If anything, I feel like Miura occasionally goes overboard with those stuff. Berserk is great because o its complex story and characters you can feel for and really like, as well as badass action I'll admit, but badass action doesn't rely on seeing tons of blood and guts

Also, they started the anime at exactly the same point as they started the manga, although they dd skip some stuff leading into the golden age flashback

[flandrian15]

though the anime of berserk didn't show any of the depth the actual manga has and yes, for me all those thing I have summed up is something that makes berserk stand out even in the seinen genre although there are others that have such a dark and obscure style. But that is, to me, the thing that defines the world where Berserk takes place. If it wasn't there, the manga wouldn't even be a tenth of what it is now and that is my opinion. Dislike it if you must but, in my honest opinion, it is as I say.

Also, I didn't say I disliked the golden age arc, far from it actually, I loved it but it was part of a much bigger picture, of which we couldn't see anything in the anime. Without the bigger picture, the arc is pretty much "meh" to me.

[Sonic Youth]

Oh yeah, a berserk movie.

Well, my first thoughts are, sure, this will be worth watching, but not much more than that.

I mean, Skull Knight and Zodd in 3D? You gotta be joking…

[Kareem Said]

@flandrian15:

Do you have any evidence to back your story up because I have been watching anime and reading manga for over 10+ years so it is quite obvious I have watch many more than just 3. Also, I don't mind older animation because I enjoyed the animation in for instance yu yu hakusho or dragonball just fine. It is the story that sucked for me. They start the anime at some weird point, there is no real portrayal of what the manga has concerning blood, gore, mature language, sex, rape and all other things making it a great seinen and the story doesn't really seem to go anywhere. The actual greatness of the story happens where the anime stops so YES, I think the anime sucked. This has nothing to do with the animation and I never even stated such a thing. Also, this is my personal opinion about this particular anime and I don't mind if anyone disagrees, I just didn't enjoy it at all.

Okay, first of all, none of those make Berserk a great seinen. It's Berserk's fantastic writing and characterization that make it amazing. If you honestly think those things make a great Seinen, than you must like Gantz (which is terrible)

Secondly, it does have a lot of those things. Casca being nearly raped by the perverted nobleman in her flashback, Griffith being tortured for over a year, and Femto's rape of Casca, and all the other horrors of the Eclipse which I actually showed my friend and he was left in shock. They do take out some things they thought would be too inappropriate like Donovan, and they also cut out Wyald but I think that was for time constraints, but on the whole they did a good job. They didn't dumb it down by any means, it is still a very violent, sexual anime and I have no idea how you can say otherwise.

Thirdly, you think it goes nowhere and that the actual greatness of Berserk comes after the Eclipse. Well I can't do anything about that, the point of the anime was to adapt the Golden Age arc in 25 episodes and that's it, so you can't really fault them for that. The "actual greatness" thing comes down to a difference of opinion. I disagree with this statement, I don't think Berserk got better after the Eclipse. I admit that that is where you're really sold for it and you think "I'm going to love this forever, because so few things bring this much passion out of me" but in terms of actual writing I think Berserk didn't get better or worse after the Golden Age arc. It maintained excellency.

Basically point is, Berserk anime was good, even with the poor quality animation, it just wasn't for you apparently, next anime looks better, we get Serpico and Ganishka and Schierke and everyone else. Now all I need is a worthwile Negima adaptation and I'll be a very happy man.

[flandrian15]

I understand what you're saying and indeed I can not blame them seeing I knew on beforehand they were only going to do the golden age arc but that is the main thing that actually does bother me. That and the feeling I had with it. If I read Berserk, it surely feels like a manga created for a more mature audience while the berserk anime felt more like something for young teenagers and I might have had higher expectations. I would've expected greater and different animation than inuyasha or yu yu hakusho. The animation just can not compare to the art in the berserk manga and that has nothing to do with it being an older show. I would've expected the sort of animation that would portray the darkness and obscurity that I do see in the manga to come out in the anime. Something like, but not the same as, how Sin City was adapted for television or something.

[Robby]

@flandrian15:

They start the anime at some weird point,

Where the manga started? Before flashing back to the same story the manga flashed back to?

there is no real portrayal of what the manga has concerning blood, gore, mature language, sex, rape

I'm pretty sure the anime had all of that.

and all other things making it a great seinen

Story, characterization, dialogue, fantastic pacing, philosophy, multi-dimensional characters, and the most amazing, gut wrenching twist turning ending ever? Yeah, it had those too.

and the story doesn't really seem to go anywhere.

Except the entire story of Guts' life. From his childhood where his father tried to kill him through the paces of finding and accepting friends and family, only to then strive for more and better, only to then realize when it was too late that he had all he ever needed? That he always fought against fate, and that eventually, no matter what he was up against, he would win.

Except for the entire story of Caska's life? Where she loved the man that saved her, was unnoticed by him, fought hard enough to be the equal of any man, and then eventually came to love and respect another that she at first hated?

The entire story of Griffith? Who was fated as a Street Urchin to rise up from the streets, lead an army, make his way into nobility after countless sacrifice, and then throw it all away for the sake of one man?

The actual greatness of the story happens where the anime stops

Golden Age was the best part of Berserk. It told everything about the characters, and the first episode told you nearly everything you needed to know about the aftermath… that Guts survived and was seeking revenge. And we know from his track record that... he won't stop until he's done. The Black Knight stuff was mostly monster of the week for a long while, and even now, 14 years later, it still isn't any closer to resolution and hasn't added much to the main three characters. Its added to the mythology plenty, and Guts has gotten stronger and taken on a new family, but the main three aren't all that much more developed than they were. Hell, Caska's been retarded the entire time.

so YES, I think the anime sucked. This has nothing to do with the animation and I never even stated such a thing. Also, this is my personal opinion about this particular anime and I don't mind if anyone disagrees, I just didn't enjoy it at all.

I disagree with you, and think you're missing out on all the things that truly make the series great, in favor of just the more obvious surface R-rated stuff.

[flandrian15]

I disagree with you in that I don't miss out on it because of the manga, which is one of my favorite manga of all time and when I read it I'm pretty sure I read exactly the same as you do. And believe you me that I really would have wanted myself to like the anime but the fact is I didn't. Maybe your points are entirely valid and all that but that still doesn't enable me to say :"you are right, I'm sorry, the anime is indeed great" but perhaps I should watch it again for all the reasons you say it's great and see if my opinions have changed seeing it was a long time ago I saw the anime and my opinion might be quite different this time.

[Berzerk]

The anime wasnt that great (mostly because of the animation) but luckily they are redoing it and it looks amazing.
Hopefully they wont skip the first Black Swordsman arc this time though.

[Monkey King]

The Berserk anime was very mediocre. But had an amazing soundtrack.

[Kareem Said]

@Monkey:

The Berserk anime was very mediocre. But had an amazing soundtrack.

I completely agree with the second thing, Behelit, Gatsu, Forces and quite a few others were great pieces of music. I'd say the only way the anime could be considered mediocre is the animation, which is bad. Aside from that it's a perfectly good adaptation.

As to Robby's "Golden Age is the best part of Berserk" I can definitely see where you're coming from and I think you're spot on. But I don't think the later parts of Berserk are any worse than the Golden Age, they're not better but they're not worse. At the very least the series is still really good even after Golden Age, Griffith's building of his army and war with Ganishka, Guts struggling with taking care of Casca and starting to become a better person, and the introduction of cool new characters like Serpico, Shierke and Isidrio makes it still very good. And I disagree about Guts not developing. He was a complete bastard after the Eclipse (any man would be really) but soon enough he reverts back to how he was before. I guess you could say he just went back to square one, but I found it interesting.

[Robby]

The anime didn't have Puck.

[Hiroy]

I don't really hate Puck, so…

[TLC]

Puck is awesome.

[tarrin4ever]

What do we think the chances of Susumu Hirasawa scoring the new anime project are?

[Renegadesoul]

A very high chance.

[Sakonosolo]

I liked the anime's opening theme. Put your grasses on~.

[Monkey King]

@RobbyBevard:

The anime didn't have Puck.

Puck is fine by me.

[dpara]

false alarm.

..I just saw this video and had to think of Berserk.

[Juvar]

@dpara:

false alarm.

!

..I just saw this video and had to think of Berserk.

I see where you are coming from.

[Juvar]

This post is deleted!