Never Mind the Bollocks, Here's the Punk Thread!

Wagomu

We have a metal thread, so why shouldn't we have a punk thread as well? It's a large and fairly misunderstood genre and one of my favorites. Whether you need to angst, break things or contemplate your surrounding socio-political universe, punk is there for you. A lot of the movement burned itself out pretty quickly, but there's still a fair-sized group of bands still around, mostly hardcore, post-hardcore and screamo acts (actual screamo, mind you!) in my experience. And of course the boring pop bands that everyone's daughter listens to.

So, are there any other big punk fans here on AP?

Here's something for all of you to contemplate:

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Hartzell

Punk is actually a very broad term which used to work more as an attitude than an actual style of music. And to tell the truth one of my very favorites were these guys right here.

Wagomu

I don't think that's true. A lot of the bands liked to say that, but, really, there are a lot of shared musical characteristics between the bands. Punk is the punk attitude applied to music and it does have a distinct sound.

I'll definitely agree on the Minutemen, though. They are my favorite and Double Nickels on the Dime ranks as my third favorite record across all genres. Mike Watt is my favorite bassist as well. R.I.P. D. Boone.

stephen

GREAT FUCKING START!!!

more:

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Wagomu

I never knew you had such good taste in music .

Are you a fan of the emo bands (the real ones, of course)? The huge misunderstandings of the subgenre really annoy me, especially considering how great bands like Moss Icon and Gray matter are (Rites of Spring are implied, of course).

stephen

I like all kinds of stuff. I don't get too caught up in genre classifications–the self-educated music professors have exploded since the advent of wikipedia and last.fm. With the internet you can hear every band in the world without having ever attended a single musical performance or without knowing a single person who has even heard of a band. So people decide they need boundaries and affiliations and that leads to the "xxx is this" "no, xxx is that" stuff.

That's always been around on some level but I think the more involved you are with the real world (going to shows, knowing people, playing music) the more you realize that none of it matters. It's all punk to me.

Wagomu

There is a point where genre tags become ridiculous, but they're necessary considering the sheer diversity of music as a whole. They can never completely categorize specific bands, but they can give you a basic idea of what you're looking into. A big punk fan could listen to punk of any description so long as it's good, but someone with more specified tastes might find crust punk too intense or pop punk too light. If you don't use them, that's fine, but they have their place in the scheme of things and can be pretty important.

Of course I agree that it's stupid that people really try to learn the names for the sake of sounding like an aficionado (if you hear someone trying to explain the differences between grindcore and powerviolence, then you know they're full of shit).

Sakonosolo

I've listened to some punk. Not really my favorite genre of music but it's not terrible either. Could you recommend the best bands in your opinion? Fish Story is awesome.

Wagomu

My personal favorites are the Minutemen, the Wipers and Cap'n Jazz. The Minutemen in particular have a pretty dynamic range in their music and I think you should enjoy them (though I can't say I have a grasp on your taste in music).

Hartzell

Let's see, you could always go with some classic Clash if you want to go mildly mainstream. Or Misfits for a pretty general Punk sound. Maybe even some Operation Ivy if you like the whole Ska Punk thing. There really is a huge range of bands. Or you could always go for some Husker Du who are always incredible. Or some Joy Division for some Post Punk. Sonic Youth… while not exactly punk is sweet too.

Wagomu

Sonic Youth is god. I wouldn't call them a punk band, though.

Hartzell

I know man, I just thought they were too good not to give a mention though. Oh and to Kairouseki, just keep looking at bands there really is a great variety and if you can sift through some of the not so good bands you can find some truly incredible ones you might have never heard of.

Herodadotus

Ah, a punk thread. I feel at home, now.

And on the genre thing; even though most, if not all of you will disagree with me. I always keep the genres kinda broad. It's easier to classify bands for me when there's only eight or nine genres to put them in. After they're in that genre, I sometimes sub-genre. (Always sub-genre metal, alternative rock, jazz, and punk, though.)

Ubiq

@Hartzell:

Let's see, you could always go with some classic Clash if you want to go mildly mainstream.

What do you mean by classic Clash? The more punkish albums like The Clash and Give 'Em Enough Rope or actual classics like London Calling and Combat Rock?

I'd recommend London Calling to anybody, but I don't know that I'd so as an example of a punk rock album seeing as how that one album is all over the musical map with ska, disco, reggae, new wave, and whatever Wrong 'Em Boyo is.

LogiaFruit6

More of a metal/ prog rock kind of guy, but I've been trying to get into punk and am quite enjoying the hardcore I have found, with Dead Kennedys as my current favorite. I like the obvious choices of Ramones, Sex Pistols, Black Flag, Replacements, Husker Du, Bad Religion, and am a big fan of the Pixies. Never liked the Clash, I've tried listening to The Clash, London Calling, and Combat Rock and never locked into their sound.

Hartzell

Oh I actually meant it in the way that Clash as a whole is pretty classic if you want to get into punk rock. And London Calling is a fantastic way to start as you said.

Zkaiser

It's sad to hear guys with such good voices waste in on screamo. It reminds me of hentai artists.

Wagomu

What music are you listening to? Because screamo is awesome:

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I really need to listen to more, though. I really only have a few albums in my collection.

JERK DISEASE

Late 70's/Early 80's rock is the best rock.

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Wagomu

That was definitely punk's heyday, but 90s/00s still has some of my favorite material. Fugazi's Repeater is another one of my favorites. I used to blast it on a near-daily basis. Cap'n Jazz's album (the name is too long to type up now) has taken that place in recent times. And more current favorites like Fucked up and Touché Amoré are also fantastic, but the punk world has changed a lot since the golden age and the world has shrunk significantly.

stephen

@Wagomu:

I really need to listen to more, though. I really only have a few albums in my collection.

Here's some of the best ones from the boom around a decade ago (I was really into this stuff at the time).

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Man, I just wasted so much time fishing youtube for this stuff! Lots of memories here.

Wagomu

I know a few of those bands and really love Envy. I'll have to look up the rest, though, since those are some great-sounding bands.

I had no idea you were so involved with music.

Bucephalus

I pray for the day that Arlong Park will make an electronica thread.

Wagomu

Unfortunately, my knowledge on electronica doesn't go far past Kraftwerk, Cold Cave and Coil.

Hartzell

Hmm. To tell the truth I have no idea what electronica is. And if you want to you could always make one. Take hold of your own destiny. But I was just wondering Wagomu, what are your your favorite albums since you bring it up? Just to see if I can be introduced to some new stuff.

Wagomu

Favorite punk albums or general albums?

Bucephalus

@Hartzell:

Hmm. To tell the truth I have no idea what electronica is. And if you want to you could always make one. Take hold of your own destiny.

It has a lot of definitions, but I just usually dub it "music that's made using synths."
I wouldn't have the stamina to keep the thread alive if I made it. Plus, I have plenty of discussion on last.fm.

We should just make a rateyourmusic thread.

Wagomu

I wouldn't call that too good of a definition, because I know entire synth albums that I wouldn't dub as electronica (Jazz From Hell by Frank Zappa stands out, if you consider a synclavier similar enough to a synth).

And I just put my collection up on rateyourmusic… Of course it makes me feel stupid because I'm missing huge amounts of classic albums (the only Who album I have on my computer is Tommy for example, aside from a 'Best Of' that I took from my parents' computers a long time ago).

Bucephalus

Electronica's too broad a genre to confine it to a certain definition. Considering most of it is made using synths, I just go with that. Of course there's other bands who draw upon electronic techniques and instruments without actually being electronica musicians, but synths are the primary instrument for electronica. Good luck trying to make an electronica song without using a synth/drum machine/computer.

Hartzell

Oh man, I just mean albums in general.

Wagomu

My top three are:

1. Frank Zappa - We're Only in it for the Money
2. The Mountain Goats - Tallahassee
3. Minutemen - Double Nickels on the Dime

Other non-ordered favorites:

Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation (this is rivaling the Minutemen at the moment for that spot)
Neu! - Neu!
Lightning Bolt - Wonderful Rainbow
Whipping Boy - Submarine (I only discovered this one about a couple weeks ago and it's climbed up fast)
Andrew W.K. - Close Calls with Brick Walls
Red House Painters - Rollercoaster
Amesoeurs - Amesoeurs
Atheist - Unquestionable Presence
Repulsion - Horrified
Sleep - Holy Mountain
Melvins - Houdini
De La Soul - Three Feet High and Rising
Xiu Xiu - Knife Play
Neurosis - Through Silver in Blood
Hammers of Misfortune - The August Engine
My Bloody Valentine - Loveless
Gospeed You! Black Emperor - Lift Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven
Kyuss - Welcome to Sky Valley
Eric Dolphy - Out To Lunch!
Miles Davis - Bitches Brew

Other favorites that are specifically punk:

Fugazi - Repeater
Flipper - Generic
Amebix - Monolith
Cap'n Jazz - Burritos, Inspiration Point, Fork Balloon Sports, Cards In The Spokes, Automatic Biographies, Kites, Kung Fu, Trophies, Banana Peels We've Slipped On and Egg Shells We've Tippy Toed Over
Dead Kennedys - Plastic Surgery Disasters
Hüsker Dü - Zen Arcade
Wipers - Is This Real?

I could go on for a while listing favorites. Not a lot of my favorites are actually too far down, but that's just how it is. There's a point where bands/albums are well known because they are really that fantastic. That isn't to say that only well known bands can be great, but a lot of those albums left a much larger impression on me then some of my obscure niche dabblings. If I named every album that I loved, then we might be here for a while…

stephen

Nice call on Plastic Surgery Disasters too… Even though it's not technically an album, I think Give Me Convenience Or Give Me Death is the best single DK release, but for their albums, PSD is the best overall (even if it doesn't have the memorable singles like Fresh Fruit does).

But it does have the best song they ever wrote:

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Wagomu

PSD always got overshadowed by Fresh Fruit, but the songwriting is on a higher level and the album just fits together so much better. That isn't to say I don't love Fresh Fruit, though. It has a lot more energy to it and can be much more fun if you want to go crazy and break things. I keep both in my car, just in case .

Bucephalus

Eh… I can never make it all the way through Bitches Brew.

Good to see some Lightning Bolt love. I'll be seeing them live this summer.

Tijnn.

Gotta say, you got a damn good taste in music Wagomu. Your top 3 albums are amazing, and you're now my hero because you mentioned GY!BE, Wipers and MBV.

Hartzell

Wow that is a pretty large list. And I haven't heard of a lot of them. I guess it's time to do some hunting to find some of these. And I feel ashamed that I haven't heard fresh fruit yet though I have both Plastic Surgery Disasters and Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death. Oh and one more thing, do you know if fIREHOSE is pretty good, I would imagine that they would be incredible, but I still haven't heard them.

Wagomu

@Bucephalus:

Eh… I can never make it all the way through Bitches Brew.

Good to see some Lightning Bolt love. I'll be seeing them live this summer.

I just missed them the other day, but I saw them last year. Greatest live show I've ever seen!

@Tijnn.:

Gotta say, you got a damn good taste in music Wagomu. Your top 3 albums are amazing, and you're now my hero because you mentioned GY!BE, Wipers and MBV.

As a fellow Zappa/Mountain Goats fan, I knew our tastes would intersect to some extent, haha.

I need to start a general music thread to absorb this type of discussion.

@Hartzell:

Wow that is a pretty large list. And I haven't heard of a lot of them. I guess it's time to do some hunting to find some of these. And I feel ashamed that I haven't heard fresh fruit yet though I have both Plastic Surgery Disasters and Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death. Oh and one more thing, do you know if fIREHOSE is pretty good, I would imagine that they would be incredible, but I still haven't heard them.

fIREHOSE is amazing. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Mike Watt is my favorite bassist. And because you brought them up, I decided to spin my vinyl of If'n .

Hartzell

Yes! I feel meaningful. Do you ever check out Watt's Hoot Page?

Wagomu

I usually don't keep up with things like that. To be honest, the only musician blog/thing I occasionally look at is John Darnielle's since he is just such a fantastic writer that even his small musings are very amusing. I should probably check it out, so I don't miss any more of Mike Watt's tours.

stephen

the Watt from Pedro show has a lot of pretty good material in it. there was one show he did a few years back with an Irish guy who runs a label that puts out Japanese music, and some members of the band LITE that he toured with recently. really neat stuff (and he usually plays some great eccentric tunes).

Wagomu

I wish I could travel to Europe now, just to see him on his current tour. Whenever I listen to the man play, I just want to take up bass, myself. He's just got such a unique and fantastic approach to the instrument.

Pachylad

Somehow talking about Republicans led to us rebelling against the man and name-dropping some punk WELL WHATEVER let's bring the discussion here! (Also because Satsuki will get mad if we don't lol)