Pirates, or Revolutionaries?

Akumu

They are called the Strawhat Pirates. Their captain wants to be the pirate king. But do their actions say Pirate, or Revolutionary?

They took down Morgan and his base.
They overthrew Arlong's empire that would have gone on to control the East Blue.
They toppled a rising force in Alabasta that would have taken control of the country.
They went into the sky and defeated "God", freeing those he dictated.
They went into Enies Lobby and burned down the flag of the World Government.
Most recently, they attacked the Tenryuubito.

These are not the actions of pirates, but of revolutionaries.

If one were to really look into it, as I have, there are no scenes where the Strawhats are actually participating in Pirate activites such as pillaging or hostage taking. You never see them boarding a passing boat and taking everything of value.

The Strawhats have no pirate values.

Monkey D. Luffy has said that he wants to be free to do whatever he wants, that's why he is going to be the Pirate King.

Who else longs for freedom? Revolutionaries.

Finally, look at his father. Monkey D. Dragon is the most wanted man in the world.

The Will is Inherited.

….

The question posed to you all is this: Why do you believe Oda has a more revolutionary side to his arcs than a pirate one. Is this a sign of what's to come? Or is it all just coincidence?

Cream-of-Chicken

To anyone else, it would seem like the activities of revolutionaries.
To the Straw Hats, it's just them going about their business.
I'm sure that, at some point in the series, Luffy will get mixed up with the Revolutionaries and the Gov. may stamp him as an ally.
But Luffy flies a jolly roger. Blatantly.
This makes him more pirate than revolutionary, in my eyes. Most revolutionaries proclaim themselves as such. Same with pirates. If Luffy says he's a pirate, and flies the jolly roger, he probably is a pirate.

GumGumBattleAxe

Oda is trying to prove that unique individuals and those who are atypical are those who shake the world. Luffy's pirates aren't typical pirates, tis true. But they're not hard-core, out to change the world types of people either. They just do what they can, where they're at.

Airflow101

Except the Strawhats have no specific vendetta against governments, they only fight against them when one of their allies is threatened.

Akumu

Hililuk also flew the Jolly Roger, does that make him a pirate?

The meaning behind the Jolly Roger is stated perfectly by Luffy: "It's a symbol of faith…...It's a promise of life." Do those things automatically make you a pirate?

And besides, I'm not saying that they're not pirates. I'm asking why you think Oda has given them a Revolutionary feel instead of a pirate one.

I never actually thought of the original 5 as pirates myself. Ecluding Luffy, not one of them set out to sea to become a pirate. All the cases should be obvious, but Usopp might not be. Hes out to be a Brave Warrior of the Sea, not a pirate.

In fact, out of everyon'es goals, Luffy's is the only one that has anything to do with Piracy.

Just some more food for thought.

Johnny B. Decent

@Uzumaki_D_Kenichi:

Hililuk also flew the Jolly Roger, does that make him a pirate?

With the strict laws on doing so with the WG, probably.

GumGumBattleAxe

@Uzumaki_D_Kenichi:

Hililuk also flew the Jolly Roger, does that make him a pirate?

The meaning behind the Jolly Roger is stated perfectly by Luffy: "It's a symbol of faith…...It's a promise of life." Do those things automatically make you a pirate?

And besides, I'm not saying that they're not pirates. I'm asking why you think Oda has given them a Revolutionary feel instead of a pirate one.

I never actually thought of the original 5 as pirates myself. Ecluding Luffy, not one of them set out to sea to become a pirate. All the cases should be obvious, but Usopp might not be. Hes out to be a Brave Warrior of the Sea, not a pirate.

In fact, out of everyon'es goals, Luffy's is the only one that has anything to do with Piracy.

Just some more food for thought.

Oda's drawing random people with no real similarity in goals together. It makes for a fantastic tale, it does…

igetownd

There isn't a set rule to how pirates behave. Pirates like what Buggy used to be are robbers and pillagers, the typical image of pirates. Pirates like Whitebeard and Shanks are more like mafia, who protect territory and fight others for dominance. Then, there are pirates like Luffy, who are treasure hunters and adventurers, who sail out to sea to explore the world and have fun.

Revolutionaries are made of actual resistance groups, and have the agenda of breaking up the central government. The revolutionaries aren't pirates mainly because their headquarters are stationed on land, while pirates are invariably on sea. There are also bounty hunters, who are like some members of the Shichibukai. I'm not sure why there aren't more of them.

wolfwood

Does being a revolutionary neccesarily mean that you long for freedom?

igetownd

@wolfwood:

Does being a revolutionary neccesarily mean that you long for freedom?

not really. It just means you have other ideas for political systems.

madmanricky

in a lot of ways the straw hat have actually stopped revolutions by shifting power back to the original government

SFMF

We don't have much information about what revolutionists' ideals are in One Piece.

AGOG

Because Dragon says he is a pirate… What more do you want? His own father says a "pirate, eh" and such... Obviously that means he doesn't take him for a revolutionary...

MmmBug

They're just a different type of pirate. I stole this quote below since I was to lazy to type it myself. =]

Type 1 for some of the villains, but easily Type 2 for the Straw Hats.

"In earlier depictions of One Piece (Romance Dawn and Wanted one-shots), pirates are described as being of two types: The "Morganeers", who are all about pillaging and looting, and the "Peace Mains", who are more about fun and games and beating the Morganeers for their loot. "

Luffy and crew are just Peace Main pirates.

AGOG

Nami pillaged in the Romance Dawn remake starring Luffy and Silk and freaking Crescent Moon Gally…

She pillaging the whole treasure out of his ship.

Other than that, what would you call Skypiea... Kuro... Buggy... etc.?

Point is that the leader of the REVOLUTIONARY ARMY claims Luffy is a pirate. Why would you doubt the guy?

MmmBug

Alright, I'll add the rest of the quote I left out. :/

- Oda intentionally avoided using those terms in the regular series, feeling they were a bit too on the nose. Although most One Piece pirates fall into one category or another early on, as the series progresses things get a bit more gray and some pirates straddled the moral line(although the Strawhats remain staunchly in the second category.)
The Strawhats are SO type two that they're never even shown (successfully) stealing loot. Lampshaded in the Skypeia arc, when they tried to steal a bag of gold…except that the owners of said gold had just decided to give it to them as a reward.
- The exception to this rule is Nami, a rather shameless and highly skilled thief and con artist.
They're still Peace Main Pirates. :P

Zik

So does that make BB pirates revolutionaries? They got a nice list that can be viewed that way.

AGOG

Luffy proposed to steal it… Nothing else.

Yes, they are PEACE MAINS but there was a reason Oda just called them pirates over that... For "reader purposes" ... Who would be saying "PEACE MAIN" this and "PEACE MAIN" that over and over again? You'd be like, fuck that!!

Blackbeast

didn´t you notice? oda makes every chapter title like: #[insert randomnumber here] if a new nakama joins but he didn´t do it, when robin joined…

so whats gonna happen? another rescue robin arc..

this time

Strawhats vs revolutionaries

AGOG

He didn't do it for Sanji or Chopper… So we have arcs for them, right?

Usopp and Franky had theirs at the same time.

Nami too.
Zoro too.
Brook is a yes.

Sanji and Chopper didn't...

So, SH vs OKAMA?
SH vs Savages or Birds..?

Blackbeast

yeah probably….

shaft

They are a bunch of guys who do whatever the hell they want, they help those they like, and generally have no issues with either screwing authority or screwing the rules. Sonds like a bunch of outlaws to me, but pirates?, no.

-wahn-

@AGOG:

He didn't do it for Sanji or Chopper… So we have arcs for them, right?

Usopp and Franky had theirs at the same time.

Nami too.
Zoro too.
Brook is a yes.

Sanji and Chopper didn't...

Actually, Oda did do that for Sanji. Only Chopper and Robin doesn't have the chapter dedicated to them joining the crew.

Zoro joined the crew in Volume 1 Chapter 6 - The First Person.
Nami officially joined the crew in Volume 11 Chapter 94 - The Second Person.
Sanji joined the crew in Volume 8 Chapter 68 - The Fourth Person.
Usopp officially joined the crew along with Franky in Volume 45 Chapter 439 - The Third and Seventh Person.
Brook joined the crew in Volume 50 Chapter 489 - The Eighth.

Makes me wonder if there will be new person joining the crew will Oda used "The Ninth Person" or "The Final Person" just to tell us the crew is finally 'completed'.

Angel emfrbl

Their pirates, not your normal type of pirate, but Luffy himself has hardly heard of revolutionaries until recently. Certainly, their actions cause revolution, but thats because they free to do as they please. The Revolutionaries in contrast from what I gather haven't got that same freedom, since their constantly locked into a quarrel with the WG.

The Straw Hats are just catalysts for change.

AGOG

@-wahn-:

Actually, Oda did do that for Sanji. Only Chopper and Robin doesn't have the chapter dedicated to them joining the crew.

Zoro joined the crew in Volume 1 Chapter 6 - The First Person.

Nami officially joined the crew in Volume 11 Chapter 94 - The Second Person.

Sanji joined the crew in Volume 8 Chapter 68 - The Fourth Person.

Usopp officially joined the crew along with Franky in Volume 45 Chapter 439 - The Third and Seventh Person.

Brook joined the crew in Volume 50 Chapter 489 - The Eighth.

Makes me wonder if there will be new person joining the crew will Oda used "The Ninth Person" or "The Final Person" just to tell us the crew is finally 'completed'.

Did… he?

Alright, at least Sanji's taken care of.

Yeah, I just know that the other characters didn't have one... Oh well.

I think he will do the "ninth" and not the final person, because it would basically state that the manga is near the end and he can't come and say "OP is almost HALF-WAY" into the future…

Brook

@GumGumBattleAxe:

Oda is trying to prove that unique individuals and those who are atypical are those who shake the world. Luffy's pirates aren't typical pirates, tis true. But they're not hard-core, out to change the world types of people either. They just do what they can, where they're at.

I think this applies to a lot of the major ''groups'' in One Piece, and I think it's awesome. There's evil and good Pirates, evil and good Marines, etc. It's nice for it not to be so black and white.

As for the topic, I agree that it's also not as cut n' dry as ''pirates or revolutionaries''. If you had to group their actions, the safest bet would be something more plain like ''adventurous group with a good sense of justice''. In AD&D terms, kinda like Chaotic or Neutral Good.

Vanessa

Pirates .

sgn15

this thread should either be locked or moved/merged to other threads… wow a lot of threads popped up in the last few days (including the shitty polls on who would die)

where are the mods???

Zkaiser

In before the bad posts. Whoops, too late.

UsoppSpell

One Piece is a show about revolutionaries that follows the life of the pirate Monkey D. L…

oh wait...

you suck.

Karmine

Monkey D. Luffy has beaten dangerous people that threaten islands on every island he is on.

He does that cause he has another reason to do so… firstly it may just be a fun adventure and later on the evil ones hurt his nakama in some way.
Nothing to do with what he is....

This is not something that Pirates are Revolutionaries do....
This is something that something who aims for Pirate King does.

Luffy's historu with each island he has visted could give him the power to claim an island under his rule to protect it... cause people would go... if anyone threatened it he would do same thing as he did in Alabasta, Skypiea, Arlong Park(whatever island was) and so on.... I know people are not aware of Alabasta and Skypiea... but you get the point I hope.

Could there really be a Pirate King with the world in chaos ? He wants to have the most freedom also... he says also that the he thinks the Pirate King is the one who has the most freedom... he can't have much freedom if he has to constantly go and help his nakamas in some countries with trouble. Such as if Arlong Park was still standing... help Vivi and so... the people he connects to... and thinks of as nakama must live in safe places for that to happen. So in short and to end this he is doing all of this to become the Pirate King.

chucknorris

It would be AWESOME if Luffy joined hes fathers organisation of revolutionaries! He is already friend with an important officer of the revolutionaries and Robin is joining a other part of the revolutionaries. The WGs organisation is in many ways a ruthless and evil organisation, even if it has good elements. How awesome would it be if hes father got beaten and Luffy took over as a leader of the revolutionaries? Super awesome. Its not likely since Luffy wants freedom for himself, but so does hes gramps and he is takiing responsibility for a organisation.

My opinion: Luffy as a revolutionary, awesome.

wintergt

People are actually asking for thread merges.. ugh.. you know some of those new threads actually had a bunch of discussion, until they were merged, then it died.

chucknorris

@wintergt:

People are actually asking for thread merges.. ugh.. you know some of those new threads actually had a bunch of discussion, until they were merged, then it died.

Yeah, I agree..its good that we have mods who use a lot of their free time to keep order, but I dont like thread merges either. The discussion just get shoved into a bunch of other discussions and you cant keep track of them. I check this forum like twice a week and its realy hard to find old discussions you replied to and see what happend to it cause of all the merges. Its better with more threads to keep track on! So what if something gets posted twice..many people wont even notice it.

Emolisher

Who set the rules for pirate in the first place? If you don't rob, don't attack innocent then you are not consider a pirate?

So you mean if a civilian saw some guys doing bad things, they should not try to stop them because they ain't police?

Renegadesoul

@chucknorris:

Yeah, I agree..its good that we have mods who use a lot of their free time to keep order, but I dont like thread merges either. The discussion just get shoved into a bunch of other discussions and you cant keep track of them. I check this forum like twice a week and its realy hard to find old discussions you replied to and see what happend to it cause of all the merges. Its better with more threads to keep track on! So what if something gets posted twice..many people wont even notice it.

You should be increase your forum activity lets say once a day to avoid that then. :ninja:

Thread merges are very handy. It gets rid of unnecessary threads that take up apforum space plus it keeps troll threads at bay.

KingofSarus

I say Luffy is a pirate. He's a self-claimed pirate and he sails with a jolly roger.
He's constantly shouting, "I'll become Pirate King!!" not "I'll become Revolutionary King!!".
Haha! That would be so funny though. His father would kick his ass.
Getting back on topic, Luffy is a pirate, he sometimes do revolutionary things, but he's STILL a pirate.

Vanessa

Define "revolutionary things" because none of what Luffy or the other crewmembers have done would really fall under that.

Well at least their reasons/motives/etc. for them, and that's really what makes all the difference.

IrishLuigi

@Uzumaki_D_Kenichi:

If one were to really look into it, as I have, there are no scenes where the Strawhats are actually participating in Pirate activites such as pillaging or hostage taking. You never see them boarding a passing boat and taking everything of value.

Or raping.
It was said somewhere that rape always derails a thread, so I'm taking a scientific view and experimenting.

KingofSarus

@Vanessa:

Define "revolutionary things"

Uzumaki D. Kenichi already listed them.
Does it matter? Aren't we on the same team? Quit trying to friendly fire me. lol

Vanessa

@KingofSarus:

Uzumaki D. Kenichi already listed them.
Does it matter? Aren't we on the same team? Quit trying to friendly fire me. lol

I was asking why you would refer to Luffy's actions as such. Even though you say we may agree, your labeling of them as the above makes it seem like you're contradicting yourself.

So yes I already know of them, and that's the reason to see past the actions themselves and look at the characters in question's motives for doing them.

KingofSarus

@Vanessa:

I was asking why you would refer to Luffy's actions as such. Even though you say we may agree, your labeling of them as the above makes it seem like you're contradicting yourself.

So yes I already know of them, and that's the reason to see past the actions themselves and look at the characters in question's motives for doing them.

Yeah, you're right, I did seem like I contradicted myself, (I wasn't very detailed, apologizes) but I was trying to say that Luffy is a pirate, but he has done things you'd think a revolutionary does or would do.
But, at the same time, it's not like he's doing it to overthrow the World Government or do what revolutionaries do, he just act the way he did for his friends' sake.
Sigh… did I just made any sense? I don't think so…

Karmine

The revolutionaries they conquer nations and bring them under their rule… they are making their own new World Government...

Luffy is just sailing on an adventure and beats up anyone who hurts his friends.
The biggest difference of him and others is that he does not fear of going alone against the World for his friends... he will go into any war against anyone just to protect any of his friends.

Reminds us of Whitebeard huh ? If you hurt one of his men he will personally come and destroy you.... Buggy said that himself.

In case if you didn't get my point then Luffy and Whitebeard are much alike. If Luffy is not a pirate then Whitebeard is not a pirate.

KingofSarus

@Karmine:

In case if you didn't get my point then Luffy and Whitebeard are much alike. If Luffy is not a pirate then Whitebeard is not a pirate.

Well said… or written.

Akumu

Hm. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in what I was asking.
I know they're Pirates, I was just asking why you think that in every major arc (I view these as such: East Blue, Alabasta, Skypiea, Enies Lobby, Thriller Bark, and –not sure what to call this one-- "End of an Era") what they end up doing is overthrowing the powers that be. PErhaps I should have titled this differently, but I saw these as revolutionary qualities, I'm not saying they're revolutionaries.
So yeah, my bad on the title of the thread.

And I was going by the definition of Pirate as seen in One Piece, and not in the two earlier versions of Romance Dawn. Oda never introduced the concept of Peace Mains in what is now One-Piece.
If you look at all of the World Infamous pirates, they haven't done anything like the Straw Hats. (except maybe for Whitebeard, but all I can remember is that he ended the Chaos on Fishmen Island, nothing else along the lines of what the Straw Hats have done.) They're famous for pillaging, being viscous killers. I mean, as far as I know, none of the other Supernovas have invaded a Marine Stronghold and burned the flag of the World Government)
Look at what the Straw Hats have done. I won't list em again, but they're their and their big. (Oh and for those ho said they more so stopped revolution in Alabasta. Crocodile was controlling the Kingdom. Cobra had long since lost control of the kingdom, and the "Revolution" wasn't anything more than an easy way to get rid of Cobra. So the Straw Hats did overthrow the Opressing power that ruled in Alabasta: Crcodile.

So once again, I know they're Pirates, not revolutionaries, what I am wondering is why you think Oda always end the Major Arcs with the Straw Hats overthrowing the powers that be.

wintergt

@Emolisher:

Who set the rules for pirate in the first place? If you don't rob, don't attack innocent then you are not consider a pirate?

So you mean if a civilian saw some guys doing bad things, they should not try to stop them because they ain't police?

Well that is correct, they should call the police.

The SHs aren't really pirates though. Here's a definition "one who robs at sea or plunders the land from the sea without commission from a sovereign nation".. they're simply not committing any piracy acts. They're more like outlaws who fight for justice where-ever they go. And call themselves pirates. There's a bunch of other so-called pirates that aren't pirates either. I'm thinking of for example Shanks (who just likes to party) or Whitebeard (who likes to collect sons and make allies).. ofcourse we don't really know what they do in their offscreen time but their personalities don't seem to indicate they are doing any pirating. Whitebeard and Shanks are more like local warlords.

The only real act of piracy that we have seen, atleast that I can remember, are the Kuja who actually came back with loot. Oh blackbeard aswell, he plundered some country.

Ofcourse this is spoken from our real world definition. In the one piece universe a pirate seems to be someone who calls themself a pirate. Or someone who just does whatever they want (an outlaw).

Karmine

@Uzumaki_D_Kenichi:

Hm. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in what I was asking.
I know they're Pirates, I was just asking why you think that in every major arc (I view these as such: East Blue, Alabasta, Skypiea, Enies Lobby, Thriller Bark, and –not sure what to call this one-- "End of an Era") what they end up doing is overthrowing the powers that be. PErhaps I should have titled this differently, but I saw these as revolutionary qualities, I'm not saying they're revolutionaries.
So yeah, my bad on the title of the thread.

And I was going by the definition of Pirate as seen in One Piece, and not in the two earlier versions of Romance Dawn. Oda never introduced the concept of Peace Mains in what is now One-Piece.
If you look at all of the World Infamous pirates, they haven't done anything like the Straw Hats. (except maybe for Whitebeard, but all I can remember is that he ended the Chaos on Fishmen Island, nothing else along the lines of what the Straw Hats have done.) They're famous for pillaging, being viscous killers. I mean, as far as I know, none of the other Supernovas have invaded a Marine Stronghold and burned the flag of the World Government)
Look at what the Straw Hats have done. I won't list em again, but they're their and their big. (Oh and for those ho said they more so stopped revolution in Alabasta. Crocodile was controlling the Kingdom. Cobra had long since lost control of the kingdom, and the "Revolution" wasn't anything more than an easy way to get rid of Cobra. So the Straw Hats did overthrow the Opressing power that ruled in Alabasta: Crcodile.

So once again, I know they're Pirates, not revolutionaries, what I am wondering is why you think Oda always end the Major Arcs with the Straw Hats overthrowing the powers that be.

What they do is put stability into each place they go to… that is what I think of it... stability and true justice. They do it to help a friend... they easily get to know new friends and they always want to help them.

This is just the path Luffy is taking to become the Pirate King. He has no chains balls... his every friend is safe and sound. It also let's him to be free to do what he wants. Impel Down, Enis Lobby and most likely Marineford soon will all be out of action... increasing the freedom in the Grand Line.

Haha been open for long time forgot to post and forgot what I was thinking...

Coolnerd89

You know how a garage band gets good enough and gets enough money to buy a van and tour? Just going around playing gigs, drinking booze, and tokin'…
That's what the Strawhats are in my opinion. The WG and every other douche that get's in their way just happens to be that one crazy asshole in the audience.

pwnobi

I just want to point out that in the original post, part of the evidence used to suggest the SH's actions are like revolutionaries, was that they stopped the REBEL army. That is all.

Akumu

@pwnobi:

I just want to point out that in the original post, part of the evidence used to suggest the SH's actions are like revolutionaries, was that they stopped the REBEL army. That is all.

@Uzumaki_D_Kenichi:

Oh and for those who said they stopped revolution in Alabasta. Crocodile was controlling the Kingdom. Cobra had long since lost control of the kingdom, and the "Revolution" wasn't anything more than an easy way to get rid of Cobra. So the Straw Hats did overthrow the Opressing power that ruled in Alabasta: Crocodile.

Hopefully that makes sense to you.