Guide guys.

[Malintex_Terek]

This is sort of a rant, but I really need to vent some steam, so please excuse me.

A few weeks back I introduced a friend of mine to a new game. He was really impressed with it and it seemed like a good match, I enjoyed it too and played through the whole game and even contributed to a wikified guide about it. I told him to just play through without regard to what happens, don't even ask for help, because that maximizes the effect (the secret being through the first play through of the game, it's ridiculously hard to win fairly, but the game throws in some helping hands to make it almost impossible to lose, so you are destined to win no matter how badly you do).

I talk to him today about his status, and he says he hasn't played it since early last week. Apparently he got stuck on a particular battle and rather than reload and try again, he immediately searched for a game guide so he would "know exactly what to do so he could win". He couldn't stop reading the guide and got spoiled, then tried the game again and got bored, and so deleted it entirely because there was no point in playing now that he knew everything that was going to happen.

I mean what the fudging fudging fudging fudge, I can't understand why someone would do something like that. Sure, I can believe that some people hate experimentation or don't like to lose, but why the heck when warned not to look up online materials would he go and do just that like a little kid? Although I contributed to that particular guide I feel vindicated because I wasn't the one who threw the spoilers up there, but honestly, had I not added in my two cents maybe the guide wouldn't have been worth scanning so he would be forced to experiment like so many other people before him were.

So yeah. Do you, the denizens of AP, use guides like wimpos, or figure things out for yourselves like real gamers?

[Local-chan]

used to use guides when I was younger, never bother now tho. Sometimes I'll use one if its a collectible I really really really cant find.

[Syan Strife]

I never use a guide on my initial playthrough, but I'll use a guide on my second time to try and get everything possible.

It's nothing bad to use them, but it weakens the joy of a game to know how to defeat a certain boss or gain a special weapon or something.

I, however, love to buy strategy guides for any game series I really enjoy, like the Legend of Zelda or Final Fantasy series, just because it's like an artbook in addition to having pointers for every last heart piece or missable treasures.

[KaizokuFan22]

I only use guides for finding what enemy has the item i need ( which was for the iris.Khemia series), where to go at times( i get lost at mazes) or 70% of the time.
to see if i missed a item

so yeah i use a guide for gameplay

[Palochka]

I use them for whenever I want to get through a part of a game that's no fun. I don't play games to be frustrated.

But 90% of the time when I'm using a guide it's for Pokemon, to look up base stats, move sets, locations, where to EV train, natures, and the like.

[Buuhan1]

Only if I'm having serious trouble on a boss, generally in a turn-based RPG. They often require strategy and tactics I don't normally use.

[fedcom]

I use guides all the time, especially during Zelda games. It doesn't hinder my enjoyment of the game at all. In fact, I hate experimentation so much that if I don't look at a guide, I'll stop playing a game for years on end because I got stuck somewhere for a few minutes.

Spoilers don't really ruin anything for me either. I tend to ignore the storyline in pretty much all the games I play anyway.

[ChesCa]

There are only about four instances when I use a guide:
1. When I'm collecting stuff (I'll do without the guide and get the last of everything with it later).
2. When I have a solution to a problem that's staring me right smack in the face and I'm not seeing it. A good instance of this is in Paper Mario and the Thousand Year Door. You have to find something that 'begins with 'cr' and ends with 'icket.'' You'd think they'd give more of a hint of what you really needed to find (and I did) and how to use it.
3. More rarely, but when I want to save time. To bring up the previous game again, I was asked to solve a trouble that requires me to count chairs in every area I've been to in order to assemble a code. Areas that can be very out of the way.
Hell no. It's not that I can't solve it…I just don't want another fifteen minutes of gameplay doing nothing but traversing the map.
4. Stats.
EDIT: Although I do admit that a certain downside is being spoiled, but I think that there are specific guides that are written as 'Spoiler Free'. I'm not sure how common they are, though.

[Yoska]

I feel using a walkthrough is humiliating, really.

Besides I do prefer figuring things out by myself. It's way way more rewarding that way. So walkthroughs are absolutely something I like to avoid as long as possible because those are a great way to destroy the feeling of accomplishment. Sometimes I do have to peek in, tho . If I will have to I will try to do it quickly. And ain't going tell nobody about it.

[MiniLuffy]

Sometimes I need to. It's a necessity. Everyone needs help from time to time.
But I don't like being spoiled, so I just search for the exact information I'm looking for and leave the walkthrough/guide be, unless I really need it again. But for one or two puzzles? No, I don't really think it ruins the fun. Walkthroughs were made for a reason, you know.

Terek, your friend is an idiot for doing something so absurd. The only one he could possibly blame is himself.

[captain usopp]

I like the challenge of trying to figure things out for yourself. At the same time, sometimes I think game designers these days make the games, so you NEED to use a guide to get through. @_@

I also have a life, and don't have hours apon hours to kill playing games, like when I was a kid.

and then, imo, a game is supposed to be fun. Hense why I end up dropping older RPGs if I have to sit there for 5 hours leveling up just so I can play.

My latest game, is Metroid Prime 3. I loved the first one. I thought that was how a 3D metroid should be. But now they're focusing too heavily on gotta make this a complex puzzle that takes hours to figure out" I like puzzles as much as the next guy, but I don't wanna spend 20 tries just to FIGURE OUT how to beat a boss, and then another 20 tries to actually do so. That's not fun. I'll try to figure it out myself a few times, then I'll go look on youtube for what to do. I never had to do that with the first prime game.

I also make sure to shut the video off though, as soon as I see what I need to see, cause I hate to be spoiled. I like seeing and doing things for myself. If I wanna be spoiled, I'll come someone over and watch them play.

[Airflow101]

Depends

If I'm up against a part of the game that requires tactics and thinking outside the box to beat, I won't use a guide. So I would never use a guide for a game like Phoenix Wright (unless the puzzle was stupidly unfair and I'd been stuck for days) because I feel that would rob me of some of the experience.

However if it's something mindless that requires nothing more than trial and error or a pointless treasure hunt with no clues then I'd be on the internet in 5 seconds. There's nothing rewarding in tedium.

[MetaMario]

Usually I can figure out puzzles and the like quite well in a game. But sometimes, when I've tried everything and still can't figure it out….I use guides.

Then the solution turns out to be something so obvious I feel like a jackass. I hate that.

[Sakonosolo]

I'll only use a guide if I have absolutely no clue what to do and I've tried like 50 times. Had to do it recently with Dead Space to figure out how to use stasis, game didn't tell well enough. I only read up to the point I need though and don't go beyond it in fear of spoilers.

What game was it if I may ask?

[Zyordius]

I think one problem is that many games make themselves very hard with no clues as what to do next and leave out info(edit-or they are so massive that a guide is helpful in playing the game right so you don't miss out or screw something up) so you have to buy or look up a guide. Also is the "rush" mentality of modern gamers "Gotta beat it! Gotta beat it!" , this goes hand and hand with renting games. So many titles are really bad buys but good rentals, so you look up a guide so you can get through it and only pay a sixth of the cost.

[Yoska]

^While I think there is a sort of rush down mentality I can't think of a single game which would actually require you to buy and look up a guide. And I like to think I have played a lot of different games. Could you give an example?

Some old school point-and-click adventures, perhaps? Badly designed NES games? Okey, there are probably some obscure games out there which are almost impossible to figure out…

That Stasis stuff in Dead Space was explained in the game manual (I just looked up). Sorry, Kairou :unsure:, but I thought how to use it was rather obvious anyway.

[Sakonosolo]

It did come with a booklet but I rented it and I'm not used to them coming with the manuals so I forgot about it . The picture in the game doesn't show a square next to the explanation, at least it didn't look like a square to me. Saw it at least twice and didn't see it either time.

[Sick_Fool]

I remember back in the day when on my second Suikoden 2 playthrough, I was able to recruit all the 108 stars (although Nanami died on that playthrough) WITHOUT seeking help from a walkthrough/guide, not even once. I got addicted to clicking every single thing in a game to make sure I don't miss anything after that incident where I accidentally stumbled upon the hidden Rokkaku Village while heading towards Gregminster. Not only that but I was also able to get all the other 3 squirrels and found the last squirrel Mokumoku by accident, lol.

I also did the same thing with FF9. I was able to complete all the sidequests, particularly the Chocographs without guides/walkthroughs. So yeah, figuring out secrets by yourself is so much more satisfying than looking at guides. I'd say, guides are most helpful on the second playthrough, since you already knew the game's story and you won't get spoiled anymore.

The first game that comes to my mind when talking about needing guides for completion is Castlevania: Symphony of the Night. That game has a truckload of secrets and glitches, some of which are almost impossible to figure out without a guide.

[Zyordius]

@Yoska:

^While I think there is a sort of rush down mentality I can't think of a single game which would actually require you to buy and look up a guide. And I like to think I have played a lot of different games. Could you give an example?

I should have put in some better wording, i wanted to mainly include games that have so much content that a guide is helpful in completing the game right.
A few examples-

Fallout 3-game is so massive and there is so much that you can miss out on or do so wrong that you have to start over that a guide is very helpful.

The Elder Scrolls Series-Same as Fallout, so much that you can mess up and miss out, not to mention and even though it's one of my favorite games of all time, it has the most bugs in any game i've played. You do need to look online so you are careful to either not to trigger a glitch or see how to deal with it.

Grand Theft Auto San Andreas-Along the same lines. Had friends who would not of completed many of the side quests like taking the pictures and others without a detailed guide(which even the guide was wrong about some of that stuff:getlost:) or help from online.

Final Fantasy 12- To get the Zodiac Spear you have to NOT open 4 certain chests in the whole game but as far as I know, there are no clues about this or what chests not to open

I agree that most games can be figured out if you stick with it long enough but sometimes we brain fart on something and when we see the answer it's "ooooh! wtf!"
I was playing the new batman and i was missing 2 chattering teeth, i checked everywhere three times over and just could not think of where they were, so i looked online and man did i feel stupid,they were up in this little part of the ceiling that i didn't even think about. As gamers we know all the little tricks and methods for finding/doing things it just that i think sometimes it's overload and we over think it.

[Pun Pun]

This post is deleted!

[lelandlancaster]

I use guides a lot. But spoilers don't take away the enjoyment I get out of games/movies/books.

[CalMc123]

Very rarely. I mean, I beat the Legend of Zelda (NES) and Zelda II without consulting a walkthrough… But it did take a long time. :ninja:

[Cream-of-Chicken]

@lelandlancaster:

I use guides a lot. But spoilers don't take away the enjoyment I get out of games/movies/books.

Same here. I wanna see it happen for myself; just reading spoilers isn't satisfying enough.

[Capt Haggis]

I often use guilds and walkthoughs for two reasons.

1. As much as I enjoy video games, I'm not that good at them.

2. I enjoy reading them. I been know to read guilds before I even get the game.

[Sesshy]

I use guides on Persona 4 and Dragon Age: Origins, but only for the gift giving/dialogue type stuff. And after I beat the game the first time. Darksiders today though, I had to look up about 3 things in about a 6 hour play session because I wanted to actually make progress today and after about 20 minutes on some things it was either turn off the console out of frustration and try again tomorrow or check something real quick. One of the things, I'm sure I wouldn't have thought of for a couple of hours playing anyways, which it was really obvious, but my mind was so set on another train of thought that just didn't occur to me.