There goes your government run health care, Obama.
Down the drain in the Senate
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General Discussion would have been a better choice.
I will say that the idea of people getting fined for not buying private insurance that they can't afford does piss me off though and that's a big part of the Senate Bill right now.
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General news article thread?
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It'll be back, lit up like a Christmas tree for the holiday season.
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Hahaha, I love you Americans with your non-existing, actually working, health-care system. Seriously, it's 2009, why do you guys have no proper system yet?
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I think Obama's plan is a stupid one in the first place
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You know what, I don't think it's even the whole failing of Obama's healthcare plan that bothers me. What bothers me is that we have a democratic president, I believe we have a majority of democrats in both houses, and yet they haven't been able to get shit accomplished! I mean, what are we doing here? Are we happy that the economy is tanking and that many people have lousy, if no, health insurance? I mean, the Republicans just won't let up!
And the lamb lies down on Broadway
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Trying to play bipartisan with a party that lies without budging will compromise your platforms and for your efforts give you nothing.
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You know what, I don't think it's even the whole failing of Obama's healthcare plan that bothers me. What bothers me is that we have a democratic president, I believe we have a majority of democrats in both houses, and yet they haven't been able to get shit accomplished! I mean, what are we doing here? Are we happy that the economy is tanking and that many people have lousy, if no, health insurance? I mean, the Republicans just won't let up!
That's a case of weak central leadership in the Democratic Party, which has been a recurrent problem since Lyndon Johnson. The party has only managed to elect people since Johnson with a specific type of "stardom", whereas the Republicans have managed to elevate both great and mediocre men.
Dems are suffering because their voting demographics are too large and too diverse, forcing candidates to go to populists stances that deviate from central ideology. People like that have no obligation to stick to party agendas. Lieberman is a great example.
Just because there's a Democratic majority doesn't guarantee legislation will get passed. At least not without salted pork hung from the bill branches.
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The point is, America's system is based on the ideology of: ''you either agree with party 1 and disagree with party 2 and vice versa''. Can't you agree and disagree with both parties on some matters? My solution: Split them up, allow more divers parties. People can identify themselves more with the party of their choice that way.
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I am actually, honest to god, planning on Moving to Australia because of this Health Care bill fiasco. Obama is a great President, and actually giving us a Public Run Healthcare system like… EVERY SINGLE OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS, was just absolutely BEAUTIFUL, but NO! IF that happened, the Republicans would lose their Healthcare Lobby and all that money they get from them, so they HAVE to promote more bullshit and sickness for us, and if I'm forced to pay for an insurance plan I can't afford, only to be told I have a "Pre-existing Condition" and lose my healthcare when I actually get sick, I'm outta here.
Get me in a life Boat and get me off this sinking ship.
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I am actually, honest to go, planning on Moving to Australia because of this Health Care bill fiasco. Obama is a great President, and actually giving us a Public Run Healthcare system like… EVERY SINGLE OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS, was just absolutely BEAUTIFUL, but NO! IF that happened, the Republicans would lose their Healthcare Lobby and all that money they get from them, so they HAVE to promote more bullshit and sickness for us, and if I'm forced to pay for an insurance plan I can't afford, only to be told I have a "Pre-existing Condition" and lose my healthcare when I actually get sick, I'm outta here.
Get me in a life Boat and get me off this sinking ship.Why so far away? Just go a little north, become a citizen and your HC will be free(for the most part).
~Kyoujin Pirates Treasurer~
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Why so far away? Just go a little north, become a citizen and your HC will be free(for the most part).
Because I have a good friend Down Under who would love to take me in and be Roomies, and she works in the industry I'm in college studying to work in, so she'll be able to help me get my foot in the door and get a good job.
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It's almost been a year, Mr. Bamalama. Do something before your term is up.
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It's almost been a year, Mr. Bamalama. Do something before your term is up.
I guess he is doing everything he cans but if this law change have to pass…what atleast 4 diffrent votings in senate and congress with 100% opposition from Republican party and some democrats opposing its very hard to get law changed.
I mean why the hell is its so damn hard for you americans to get a decent healthcare? You fear that working and equal healthcare is some socialists abomination that will taint your country with communist idealogies?
Even Cuba what is backwater and third world country is actually having better healthcare that USA?
This 2009 and USA is still having almost medieval level healthcare?
Every western country except USA has equal and low cost healthcare provided with their citizens and its working for all of us and we are not communists either...
But well if you dont want modern healthcare then you dont really have to get it... just pray that when you get caught by unexpected accident you actually have working insurance and will be able to get proper medical treadment.
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it does greatly annoy me that we don't have some form of afordable or free health care system in place in the so called greatest country in the world. NO parent should EVER have to second guess taking their kid to the ER in the middle of the night because they don't have health insurance.
While I like Obama, I think his aproach on the subject was off. Rather than start a government run health care system first he should have gone after the insurance companies for their incredibly high levels of standreds (i.e. who they insurance, how much ect.) The medical insurance industry wasn't always a profitible one and it shouldn't be now. Making more money should not take priotry over one's life.
Insurance companies should also stop charging for every little test that's done and should instead pay strictly for results.
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The health care in the US has always seemed pretty advanced to me.
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Then you're either rich, perpetually healthy or don't pay the bills in your house.
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I'm not an American so I wouldn't know. But, yeah, it has always seemed like people in the US health care system are well educuted and well equipped (and well paided! as a person who is studing to become a paramedic that is a very nice perk of a health care system
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My solution: Split them up, allow more divers parties. People can identify themselves more with the party of their choice that way.
That's not possible. America at large wouldn't be able to tell what a party or candidate really stood for, so nobody would end up getting votes since there's no way in national elections to not vote for someone. The only way to "not vote" is not vote at all.
Obama is a great President, and actually giving us a Public Run Healthcare system like… EVERY SINGLE OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY IN THE WORLD HAS, was just absolutely BEAUTIFUL, but NO!
IF that happened, the Republicans would lose their Healthcare Lobby and all that money they get from them, so they HAVE to promote more bullshit and sickness for us, and if I'm forced to pay for an insurance plan I can't afford, only to be told I have a "Pre-existing Condition" and lose my healthcare when I actually get sick, I'm outta here.
The bill is actually a very bad one, with provisions like TAXING BIOMEDICAL COMPANIES AMOUNTS EQUAL TO THEIR R&D INVESTMENTS. That means no more investment in future treatments and medicine, because companies would fall below breaking even. The more they invest = the more they get taxed to finance this health care program.
Health care is not a profitable industry, frankly. The only people who make lots of money are pharmaceutical companies and nurses. The bill you get from your health care provider is about as bare-bones as it gets.
I mean why the hell is its so damn hard for you americans to get a decent healthcare? You fear that working and equal healthcare is some socialists abomination that will taint your country with communist idealogies?
No.
The economic mechanism is pretty complex, but the bottom line is it's entirely cultural. The cultural problem influences the economics, which then influences the politics. That cultural problem is too many people, too diverse.
America is not a "melting pot", it's more like a microcosm of a bunch of different countries at war with one another.
It's a permanent problem that will never be resolved because it exploits some of our country's basic tenants.
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No, the reason we will not get better health care is because of the insurance companies. Health insurance is a system that forces the average person to pay more money than will ever have been worth paying. It's a safety net for the rich and makes health an unreasonable goal or great burden on anyone else. That is why the republicans like it and make any other system out to be an abomination. Unfortunately, we have to buy it in a better safe than sorry case without any other options to fall back on.
The insurance companies have grown too large, so shutting them down isn't an effective way of getting rid of them. They also have a lot of clout in politics, as evidenced by the fact that a good portion of the remaining provisions of the health care bill will inevitably be a boon to them, and that the parts dismantled were mostly systems to check them. Insurance is an arrow lodged in your lung. You'll slowly die if you do nothing, die quicker if you remove it and, to make matters worse, the archer is telling you to push it in further.
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Then of course, there's this fellow.
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AKA
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LOVE AND PEACE
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The bill is actually a very bad one, with provisions like TAXING BIOMEDICAL COMPANIES AMOUNTS EQUAL TO THEIR R&D INVESTMENTS. That means no more investment in future treatments and medicine, because companies would fall below breaking even. The more they invest = the more they get taxed to finance this health care program.
it IS a very bad one, it wasn't always.
When the Republicans and moderate Democrats were whining over it, they changed and complicated the hell out of it. When the "Death Panels" bullshit came up, they removed the part that they said talked about that to appease them, even though the line ACTUALLY said NOTHING about that.
The bill COULD have been something good, but it went to shit as soon as they took an axe to it, chopping off anything they thought the Republicans and Moderate Dems would reject. So instead of fine-tuning and making the bill into something good, you have a small handful of people trying to make a bill and a bunch of Republicans, and Droopy Lieberman, holding their hands over their ears going "NUH UH!!".
The result is a Franken-Bill that tries to please everybody at the cost of being a convoluted mess that wont actually work.
So basically, for the Republicans, it went…
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Health insurance is a system that forces the average person to pay more money than will ever have been worth paying.
This is a general and very incorrect statement. Health insurance across the board costs less than the price of going to an emergency room - if it wasn't, nobody would buy insurance and there wouldn't be a problem.
The problem with for-profit health insurance is companies have an incentive to make more money, and that means not covering people who will lose the company money. That's just good business sense, but it conflicts with the supposed morals of hospitals to "take care of the sick no matter what". People want to extend that mentality to health insurance companies and frankly that doesn't make them profitable enough to stay in business, meaning no health care at all.
Any centralized health care program seems like the logical thing to do - pool all the money so the most people possible get covered. If it's government run, there's no need to maintain a for-profit standard. But what makes Obama's plan dangerous is he's extending coverage to all people in the US and its territories, even people who theoretically make no income at all. This opens up a huge opportunity for free ridership, and to avoid the "no no" of deficit spending the bill taxes research and diagnostic firms in the health sciences to pay for the subsidies centralized health care.
When people say, "we want affordable health care" they think about the middle class, but Obama's plan will extend to illegal immigrants (check the wording) and will make massive numbers of new people eligible for treatments.
On top of that, the problem of keeping health care away from "for profit" industries wouldn't be solved because Obama is taxing those industries to cover all of these new eligible people.
US R&D spreads to around the world; we do the research, other countries get the benefit of the knowledge without having to invest. They can afford centralized health care because they're being handed the top-of-the-line tech we develop. Kill US R&D, and you kill other countries' health programs too.
When the Republicans and moderate Democrats were whining over it, they changed and complicated the hell out of it. When the "Death Panels" bullshit came up, they removed the part that they said talked about that to appease them, even though the line ACTUALLY said NOTHING about that.
It's long but not that complicated actually. I'm pretty sure the moderate Democrats were a problem to get on board because a single-payer health care plan will put a LOT of middle class people out of work, like any centralization program would (even worse if it's commercial to government).
I've only been able to read the recent bill transcript, I don't know what it was like before revisions.
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US R&D spreads to around the world; we do the research, other countries get the benefit of the knowledge without having to invest. They can afford centralized health care because they're being handed the top-of-the-line tech we develop. Kill US R&D, and you kill other countries' health programs too.
I mostly agree with you, but this part is just rubbish. You say America can't afford a modern health-care system because the rest of the world steals research? =S
Anyway, another option could be to just make hospitals and insurance companies semi-profitable. That means all the hospitals and health-care are property and the responsibility of the State, but that the State like, hires, 3rd party companies to take care of the job. Some European countries use this method, and it works fine.
….I hope my explaining isn't that bad =p
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You say America can't afford a modern health-care system because the rest of the world steals research? =S
No, I'm saying the rest of the world benefits one-way from US innovation. This health care plan that targets US biomedical R&D will cause a cascade that affects quality of service in other countries as well. It won't harm the current level of technology, but tomorrow's.
Anyway, another option could be to just make hospitals and insurance companies semi-profitable. That means all the hospitals and health-care are property and the responsibility of the State, but that the State like, hires, 3rd party companies to take care of the job. Some European countries use this method, and it works fine.
That's similar to our Post Office service, but given the competition from other mail-delivery services like FedEx and UPS the end result would be something like the public option health care plan.
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US R&D spreads to around the world; we do the research, other countries get the benefit of the knowledge without having to invest. They can afford centralized health care because they're being handed the top-of-the-line tech we develop. Kill US R&D, and you kill other countries' health programs too.
This is very ignorant point of view, you make it sound like US R&D is only one who is actually researching and developing new medical treatments and cures while rest of the world just leeches all results with zero investement?
If US R&D would stop its functions on today it would affect very little on world at this point. Every country is more or less researching medical sience and many countrys in europe are world leading on their research on subjects like cancer, diabetes and heart treatment.
World would not give a shit if your precious R&D would shut down today, sure it would affect medical sience on world but would it shut down any other countrys health programs? In your patriotic dreams perhaps.
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This is a general and very incorrect statement. Health insurance across the board costs less than the price of going to an emergency room - if it wasn't, nobody would buy insurance and there wouldn't be a problem.
Even if it may be cheaper, it's become the only option and that option is still much more expensive than getting health care in any sensible country. My statement was mostly hyperbole, though.
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Then of course, there's this fellow.
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http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_sW65ilskOC8/RvmBVSnoK-I/AAAAAAAAGfQ/Ri1ZsQa3WJg/s400/JoeLiebermanFace.jpgAKA
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http://go.butler.edu/cs/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Components.PostAttachments/00.00.00.60.86/droopy.jpg[/hide][/hide]XD I remember this from this week's Jon Stewart show, the only thing which keeps me sort of up-to-date in US news and stuff. Okay, I know it is not really a news thing, but I just love the irony, satire and sarcasem there.
So, Health Care… it seems like it is awfully hard to pull that through the senate. @_@ If Obama succeeds in this... that would be a miracle. It is almost like a symbol, like Obama itself, it seems shiny and glittering and promises a better world, so the purpose is okay, but it just doesn't work out in the practice.
Yet I think the companies should pay to some extent, but maybe not this way. -
You know what, I don't think it's even the whole failing of Obama's healthcare plan that bothers me. What bothers me is that we have a democratic president, I believe we have a majority of democrats in both houses, and yet they haven't been able to get shit accomplished! I mean, what are we doing here? Are we happy that the economy is tanking and that many people have lousy, if no, health insurance? I mean, the Republicans just won't let up!
I think that speaks for Democrats and how they get shit done. Sparkly "change" talk is just talk without action.
But what makes Obama's plan dangerous is he's extending coverage to all people in the US and its territories, even people who theoretically make no income at all. This opens up a huge opportunity for free ridership, and to avoid the "no no" of deficit spending the bill taxes research and diagnostic firms in the health sciences to pay for the subsidies centralized health care.
When people say, "we want affordable health care" they think about the middle class, but Obama's plan will extend to illegal immigrants (check the wording) and will make massive numbers of new people eligible for treatments.
On top of that, the problem of keeping health care away from "for profit" industries wouldn't be solved because Obama is taxing those industries to cover all of these new eligible people.
That's what scares me most about all this stuff, tax paying citizens should NOT have to pay for those who are not putting into the system.
I really think a lot of these liberal minded people want to bring everyone to the same level. You cannot raise up the poor, you can only bring down the upper and middle classes to the same page as the lowest. Personally I do not want to lose my quality of life so the cheaters and illegals can have insurance. Which if everyone is equal on the health care scale, you get those socialist type systems were people are on waiting lists to get into their doctors, with some people dying or becoming seriously ill before they are seen.
A country's priority should be the welfare of it's citizens before anything else. If we are in such a shitty state from not taking care of ourselves, how does anyone expect the US to reach out and do helpful things for the rest of the world and to help the people who want to become citizens for a better life, not the ones that just want to come and leech off the system.
I think the only people who should get any assistance are the elderly and those no longer capable of any work due to a serious disability (and not those moochers who got on disability because they do something like throw out their backs). For everyone else who is capable of working, they should work and earn their coverage for themselves and their families.
And if you're illegal, too bad. Get legal and earn your keep like everyone else.
Though we're just going to continue this vicious cycle of poverty if we do not reform education! When the hell are they going to get to that, if we continue to have piss poor standards we continue to have people not qualified for well paying jobs who can't afford health insurance and the cycle continues.
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Paying taxes into the system is overall cheaper than having to tango with the insurance companies. Do you really want to fuck the country over because you may not like somebody that a small portion of your money is going to? Maybe that dollar you spent on a kit-kat bar will eventually make its way to some schmuck a dollar short of buying his dream gun. Should you stop using money because of what it might do one day?
Taxes will not drag you down unless they get to an unreasonable point, which they are far from. By your logic, income tax should make the CEO of a major company earn the same as the fry cook at your local McDonalds. Obviously, that is not the case. In order to effectively drag someone down with taxes, you would need to put in place many heavy specified taxes aimed at a particular group.
And countries that have list systems only put them to use for non-serious conditions. If you are dying, then you will be taken care of immediately. My family's got friends up in Canada. One family in particular has had at least four members go through major surgeries within the past year and they have not been put on any waiting lists.
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I was thinking along the lines that both taxes and what you already put into insurance would rise. To where you couldn't pay what you needed to put in for insurance because your money is going into taxes to pay for everyone else's healthcare. If there was a government run insurance on top of the private ones.
I'm not sure if all insurance works the same, I just know you generally have a percentage taken out of your wages to cover it, and if that rises along with taxes then you may have to give up your coverage of choice.
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I was thinking along the lines that both taxes and what you already put into insurance would rise. To where you couldn't pay what you needed to put in for insurance because your money is going into taxes to pay for everyone else's healthcare. If there was a government run insurance on top of the private ones.
I'm not sure if all insurance works the same, I just know you generally have a percentage taken out of your wages to cover it, and if that rises along with taxes then you may have to give up your coverage of choice.
You dont have to pay more taxes to pay up those filthy leechers hospital bills when they manage to hurt themself when they are avoiding jobs right? :getlost:
You dont even have to pay more taxes to ensure you get professional medical treadment when you get into accident and you dont have money for insurance because you lost your job and social stature because your employing company fired you to cut their expenses.
USA could aswell reduce their next year defense budget by 5% and diverd that sum to decent healthcare for every citizen. Oh but yeah I guess those fanatic islamist terrorists with their Ak-47 rifles are enough thread to invest developing another useless super expensive fighter yet?
But seriosly I dont even know why I should give a shit if USA have or does not have universal healthcare for its citizens, there are other problems in world aswell.
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so is it different from Greys Anatomy?they dont fuck the system to save lifes?
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I'm just taking a stab at it, I'm definately not the one with the most know-how on this stuff. I got kind of lost on what point you're trying to make. Because you have to pay taxes.
I just don't want to pay for illegals or people who mooch off the system.
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Personally I do not want to lose my quality of life so the cheaters and illegals can have insurance. Which if everyone is equal on the health care scale, you get those socialist type systems were people are on waiting lists to get into their doctors, with some people dying or becoming seriously ill before they are seen.
This is a perfect example of one of the major flaws in todays thinking of the average american (not talking about you in particular). They tend to think that even the slightest infringment of their freedom, even a tiny bit of socialistic thinking (for example: the exact same health-care for everybody) is in violation of the ''democratic/kapitalistic'' laws. As in: ZOMG COMMUNISTIC!!!!1! Seriously, what you say doesn't mean you will get DDR-like events. Hell, I would even go as far as saying that in 95% of the countries who use that system the overall health-care is much better than the USA have. But now that I think about it….ANY health-care system western/civilised countries use is better than America's in 95% of the cases.
I agree with you on the other matters though. People who don't contribute to the system (with old/disabled people as exceptions) should not be allowed the same insurance as the ones who do. But that problem can be solved too. In my country, for example, there are actually LAWS which say that any person above 21 (or something) who can't pay his/her taxes (and who isn't studying, etc.) MUST search for a job. If the person doesn't have one in, let's say, 1 year, his/hers social security will be cut (<--Is that the proper way of saying such thing? =p). I don't know the precise rules regarding this, but it seems they are working (at least in the country I live in).
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The biggest gripes I see about the socialist system that people are scared of when it comes to doctors is the fact they will more then likely be assigned a doctor and not be able to go to the specialists they prefer to see. Like you could be stuck with a doctor that sucks and not have the choice of choosing another. And of course if a bunch of people can only go to one place, there's waiting lists with the serious cases getting preference which can result in people waiting a very, very long time. It's like going to an open clinic where you don't have an appointment.
It's probably true to say most Americans are super impatient beings, because waiting an hour or so to see a doctor, we hates it.
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We don't live in 1917 anymore =p Those things you say are in the past. Having a good health-care system which isn't only for the rich does not mean the hospitals will get over-run or something. As long it is organized well and the rules are strict, it'll work out perfectly fine. Just look at Europe for example.
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The biggest gripes I see about the socialist system that people are scared of when it comes to doctors is the fact they will more then likely be assigned a doctor and not be able to go to the specialists they prefer to see. Like you could be stuck with a doctor that sucks and not have the choice of choosing another. And of course if a bunch of people can only go to one place, there's waiting lists with the serious cases getting preference which can result in people waiting a very, very long time. It's like going to an open clinic where you don't have an appointment.
It's probably true to say most Americans are super impatient beings, because waiting an hour or so to see a doctor, we hates it.
Well I dont know how it is in another european countrys but every experience I had with hospitals and medical treadments has been very smooth and professional.
My friend tumbled over class statue when he was drunk and he got his arm cut pretty badly but he got his arm treated in first aid immidatly and got his arm operated in 24 hours.
Glass cutted two of his major tendons and he lost alot of blood but after 2 months and having his arm trained by physic theraphist it was fully operational and he was able to return his job.
We have operation ques here aswell but those only concern people who are not having major issues, but if you get your arm cut or something like that you will get immidate operation without any questions asked about your insurances and incomes.
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This is very ignorant point of view, you make it sound like US R&D is only one who is actually researching and developing new medical treatments and cures while rest of the world just leeches all results with zero investement?
Contribution from foreign countries is pretty minor outside of pharmaceuticals, which are multinationals so you can't really type them as simply a foreign or US based company. Most countries send their best students out of the country to the US to get trained, then they return back home to practice, not research.
Every country is more or less researching medical sience and many countrys in europe are world leading on their research on subjects like cancer, diabetes and heart treatment.
The only other country aside from the US that has contributed significantly to recent medicine is the UK, but usually in collaboration with US or Australian doctors. Still, two countries out of a hundred that have a health care industry is still a minority, and even then they're still working with the US.
World would not give a shit if your precious R&D would shut down today, sure it would affect medical sience on world but would it shut down any other countrys health programs? In your patriotic dreams perhaps.
Health care costs will rise over time because people age, and the older people get the more treatment they need, meaning more visits to the hospital. In a continent of old people like what Europe is mutating into, it'll consist of nothing but people chronically addicted to the emergency room.
Chemotherapy is expensive, and it doesn't always work. Imagine a world where suddenly half your population has cancer, with a 15% remission rate that must be treated because of your universal coverage. Suddenly, the government has to pay for a lot of sick people.
Hence the need for ever improving treatments, not only to help the sick but to make things cheaper too (fewer procedures run, fewer costs rung up).
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I just don't want to pay for illegals or people who mooch off the system.
Here's the thing, you already are.
The welfare office (known here in AZ as the "Department of Economic Services, or the "DES") give out, FOR FREE, Healthcare to people on welfare. And any good moocher worth their own salt are already on this program, getting free healthcare that you are paying for.
As for Illegals, well, if they want good Healthcare, they just have to go home to Mexico, since they have better health care than us, and it's COMPLETELY FREE!
In fact, Mexico is having a problem right now with Illegals from the US going over there for the healthcare.
So you be happy with the Healthcare you have right now and let us try to get our Free Healthcare that might help some of us…... Until you get Sick, and your Healthcare company decides you have a "Preexisting Condition" and refuses to pay any of your medical bills and cancels your policy, then you can join us in trying to get a good system.
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Actually, this whole "the US is doing medical research for others" puzzles me too.
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I have no problems with my insurance right now, that's kinda why I don't want it all fucked up. I need my thyroid medicine.
I know we're already paying for them, you pay for it everytime someone without insurance who can't pay goes to the emergency room. That's unavoidable, as the seriously injured shouldn't be turned away, but I wouldn't want tax money to go to them to have insurance so they still wouldn't have to pay/pay little.
By all means provide assistance to the elderly and disabled, if we have to pay more to go to them that's one thing, but to pay for perfectly healthy people capable of working and earning their own keep is stupid (or disabled illegals, a lot of them come to the US to get healthcare but they can't work). I know that it's happening and will continue to happen, I can think it's stupid.
Just as stupid as no child left behind, but that's off-topic.
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(or disabled illegals, a lot of them come to the US to get healthcare but they can't work)
No. That's not happening AT ALL! Any Illegals who come here come to work. Mexico has a better Healthcare system than us, it's Free over there.
Mexico is actually having a problem now with Illegal AMERICANS going over THERE for Healthcare.
And you like your Insurance now yes? Wait. If something Truly bad were to happen to you (heaven forbid), your insurance company would tell you "You have a Prexisting condition, we're cutting you off".
Congratulations, you just lost your Healthcare. And your Healthcare company puts a red flag on your record. Now no other Health Care Company will insure you.
All thanks to our Current, Companies run everything system.
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The mandate is really what makes this bill so awful as it's forcing people to either buy insurance from a private company or be fined 2% of their income (which would presumably rise if you come into violation of that law for more than one year in a row) by the IRS. Can't afford it? Well, don't expect much in the way of government subsidies as Joe Lieberman managed to get them reduced by a considerable margin along with a provision preventing insurers from raising rates on you for a pre-existing condition, He also had a lot to do with removing provisions that prevent insurance companies from operating across state lines. Banks used to have to follow that law until it was removed and they largely relocated to states with the most lax laws. Remember how that worked out?
I wonder if the money the IRS will be docking people if they don't buy insurance will be used to fund the extra money Nebraska is getting for Medicaid expansion. It's nice that one state having a jackass of a Senator means that the other forty-nine states have to pay a bit more so that one state can get something the others can't.
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This 2500 page, pork laden, monstrosity of a bill is an absolute disaster, but hopefully the abortion battle will sink the thing once and for good in conference, that's about the only hope left at this point. Either way, the mandate that you have to buy health insurance or get fined/jailed is absolutely unconstitutional and especially unprecedented, so presumably the whole thing will get thrown out in the Supreme Court in due time.
My biggest problem with the whole thing is how my stupid senators acted. I mean, the welfare state that is New York is running massive deficits right now, we could seriously use a permanent exemption for Medicaid and had the rest of the country pay our share. But do either of my senators hold out for freebies? Noooooo, they have to go right along with Obama's commie agenda from the get-go and let states whose budgets are comparatively balanced reap the juicy, pork rewards. Bunch of worthless Democrats…
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But do either of my senators hold out for freebies? Noooooo, they have to go right along with Obama's commie agenda from the get-go and let states whose budgets are comparatively balanced reap the juicy, pork rewards. Bunch of worthless Democrats…
HAHAHA! I love when morons try to make this argument, it always makes me laugh hard.
The bill wouldn't be the convoluted mess it is right now if it weren't for the republicans.
"BAAAAAAAAAAAW! Insurance companies should keep being allowed to screw consuuuuuumeeers! If Obama sets up a Free Healthcare system that will actually HELP PEOPLE, then we lose our Healthcare lobby and stop getting kick-backs… Booo hoo..."
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I think its funny how so many people complain that Obama isn't doing anything, yet they are the ones preventing him from doing anything in the first place.
I don't claim to know much about his new health care bill or whether it will have a positive effect or not. But I do know this: Obama is a damn weakling. He really should stop trying to appease his opponents more than trying to get his goals completed.
From what I can gather, it looks like he's not even planning to do much to overhaul the health care system in the first place. His supposed socialist policy doesn't even come close to being a true socialist policy.
NNID: julsjacket
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HAHAHA! I love when morons try to make this argument, it always makes me laugh hard.
The bill wouldn't be the convoluted mess it is right now if it weren't for the republicans.
"BAAAAAAAAAAAW! Insurance companies should keep being allowed to screw consuuuuuumeeers! If Obama sets up a Free Healthcare system that will actually HELP PEOPLE, then we lose our Healthcare lobby and stop getting kick-backs… Booo hoo..."
Yeah, because passing a mandatory health care bill that will crush small businesses who already operate on a razor thin profit margin (but of course is a boon to large corporations who will unload costs onto the taxpayer) is exactly the right thing to do in this poor economy. Crush the small business investor, the sector that creates most of the jobs in America. You're right, Obama isn't a commie, he's more of a practical corporatist fascist with the commie's socialist utopia as his ultimate goal. And I'm the moron…
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