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Chapter 559 "A Mandate from Heaven" Discussion
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I understand but this is OP and characters personalities are rarely meant to be taken so seriously, it's kinda like hating Brook for his skull jokes, Sanji for his :wub: which is more prevalent than Hancock's, or hating Usopp for his cowardice. I just tend to look at Hancock as work in progress because she started out as a pseudo villain and before she could get character development the love sickness was given to her but even that is something that needs time to be done well without coming off as annoying (it shouldn't be anymore annoying than Sanji tbh). Basically her character development seems to be put on hold while main plot happens. Spandam on the otherhand was a 1 dimensional worm and because he was a villain he had no hope of character development, which is way worse imo.
Well, if I can weigh in on this, I think the key difference between Sanji and Hancock that prevents him from falling into the same territory as her (or at least not so hard), is that his infatuations do not completely rule his character. It's a big part, but there are plenty of other aspects to offset it.
And for the record, I find Brook's skull jokes to get quite stale and annoying very quickly.
~Stargazer~, ~Distance~ original stories.
3DS Friend Code: 2234-8294-8917
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I was off browsing for stuff I've been looking to buy and got a bit behind here. Zik, I meant powerful in terms of shichi lvl and such for Hancock. It's hard to guage just where she stands in compairson to the others powerwise, but she's probably one of the most powerful female characters in the story so far. The Admirals and WB and such are at a godly tier. Robin as well is something like the 4th or 5th most powerful SH. In my mind I've always placed her right after the monster trio up until the as of yet hard to guage Brook and potentially more powerful Franky joined. And it's not from Robin's physical strength, but rather her intelligence and her hax df power. I mean, she's been combining arms to increase the power lately, so theoretically any non-logia (sans someone with an avoidance move like Buggy/Moria/Luffy) could have their neck snapped as long as she could see them. Oda would never make such a simple ohko fight, but it's something possible and part of why I believe he avoids writing her fights. She's smart and he knows she'd try to end things quickly before they could get out of hand. Thus she'd use her hax and the fight would suck and people would quickly deem her lame for "ruining" action, etc.
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@Zik:
Thank you. You fucking dumbass.
You are fucking welcome. And look at that, you edited my quote, look at how fucking spiffy you are.
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I mean, she's been combining arms to increase the power lately, so theoretically any non-logia (sans someone with an avoidance move like Buggy/Moria/Luffy) could have their neck snapped as long as she could see them.
she's still limited to her physical strength. She can't necksnap a guy with neck muscles stronger than her arms. A lot of zoan users would probably fall in this category (Lucci comes to mind).
One Piece chapter 6xx, somewhere in the New World:
Blackbeard: Shanks never told you what happened to your father.
Usopp: He told me enough! He told me you killed him.
Blackbeard: No. I am your father.
Usopp: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
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Sure is gettin' serious, here on the internet.
There's a great lighthearted vibe around here, because no matter how serious we might get, we're all together because of some magical pirate.
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Robin was portrayed to be very strong initially. Her bounty was roughly the same as Croc's and she was defeating everyone who opposed her without breaking a sweat. Her lack of strength/power didn't become apparent until Croc lit her up like a Christmas tree. We then found out later that her bounty was based on her knowledge.
Like anyone else though, her DF ability will match up well against some people and poorly against others.
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she's still limited to her physical strength. She can't necksnap a guy with neck muscles stronger than her arms. A lot of zoan users would probably fall in this category (Lucci comes to mind).
I somehow doubt her "Big Tree" arm was equal to anything less than the strength of 100 arms. That's what I was saying w/ the necksnap bit. Prior to her making bigger arms out of several of her own, the limit was most definitely as you said and she'd definitely be weaker. I guess I just saw the combining arms thing as her powerup to get around that old limit. I may be wrong, but then I'd want to know why "Big Tree" was able to pin Oars's arm and why she made several bigger hands to hit the Pacifista.
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Well, if I can weigh in on this, I think the key difference between Sanji and Hancock that prevents him from falling into the same territory as her (or at least not so hard), is that his infatuations do not completely rule his character. It's a big part, but there are plenty of other aspects to offset it.
And for the record, I find Brook's skull jokes to get quite stale and annoying very quickly.
Well look at how much more screentime Sanji has had over Hancock. In DB Vegeta was presented as an irredeemable bastard and continued even on Namek and killed an entire village of Namekians but then later you find out the saiyans past and he doesn't seem as one dimensionally evil anymore. Hancock has had an entire arc in which she was purposefully developed as a bitch but then we get the one chapter for her past then one for love sickness, then it was off to ID, with little time to follow through or develop any other aspects to her character.
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I somehow doubt her "Big Tree" arm was equal to anything less than the strength of 100 arms. That's what I was saying w/ the necksnap bit. Prior to her making bigger arms out of several of her own, the limit was most definitely as you said and she'd definitely be weaker. I guess I just saw the combining arms thing as her powerup to get around that old limit. I may be wrong, but then I'd want to know why "Big Tree" was able to pin Oars's arm and why she made several bigger hands to hit the Pacifista.
you can't place a 100 combined arms around someones neck. Btw, what chapter can we see the big tree move in?
One Piece chapter 6xx, somewhere in the New World:
Blackbeard: Shanks never told you what happened to your father.
Usopp: He told me enough! He told me you killed him.
Blackbeard: No. I am your father.
Usopp: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!
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You are fucking welcome. And you're so fucking great. How can I even be 1/40th the poster you are?
Well again thanks it's nice to be acknowledged. I dunno think someone of your ilk can be anywhere as great as me especially when it comes to posting, not even 1/80th really. In short try not to be stupid. If that's too hard I understand. PM me if .you need anymore pointers
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Lol ?
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you can't place a 100 combined arms around someones neck. Btw, what chapter can we see the big tree move in?
Valid point, but it doesn't have to be 100. She can at least double her str against an average sized person. And I forget what chapter it was in, but she was pinning down Oars's arm w/ it during the SHs vs Oars epically long fight. Iirc it was when they were knocking him over the first time.
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Valid point, but it doesn't have to be 100. She can at least double her str against an average sized person. And I forget what chapter it was in, but she was pinning down Oars's arm w/ it during the SHs vs Oars epically long fight. Iirc it was when they were knocking him over the first time.
Yeah I know what you're talking about but that move is limited because to use it requires her to layer many arms together, a fast and normal size character could hurt dart in and slice the giant arm and damage Robin's real body.
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@Zik:
Well again thanks it's nice to be acknowledged. I dunno think someone of your ilk can be anywhere as great as me especially when it comes to posting, not even 1/80th really. In short try not to be stupid. If that's too hard I understand. PM me if .you need anymore pointers
Oh yeah no problem. And thanks for the advice man. Really appreciate it. I hope to be as great as you someday. All I really have to do is use shit and fuck as often as possible, say "you make no fucking sense" in all caps when I get really frustrated, and argue about stupid shit, and I should be well on my way right?
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Oh yeah no problem. And thanks for the advice man. Really appreciate it. I hope to be as great as you someday. All I really have to do is use shit and fuck as often as possible, say "you make no fucking sense" in all caps when I get really frustrated, and argue about stupid shit, and I should be well on my way right?
The fact that you've actually held an arguement with him is proof that you long ago were victim to a mental implosion.
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Yeah I know what you're talking about but that move is limited because to use it requires her to layer many arms together, a fast and normal size character could hurt dart in and slice the giant arm and damage Robin's real body.
True. I guess I just misread its usefulness as a powerup. Anyway… can we just leave this offtopic Robin stuff alone now? lol. I didn't mean to drag stuff so off topic, and realize half of it is my fault, but I'd like to see people speculating more on the chapter at hand. Makes these threads more interesting than arguing over a SH's power.
So for that reason: anyone else liking how Doflamingo seems to always just be chillin while the war's going on around him (other than when he cut off Oars Jr's leg)? Almost seems like the war's a vacation for him. Next chapter he'll be sitting on a pile of bodies drinking some tropical shiz while explaining to Iva what happened to Kuma. -
I've always pegged robin as one of the more threatening of the SH crew and she deserves her bounty. She used her DF extremely well and is very effective in most situations…
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Oh yeah no problem. And thanks for the advice man. Really appreciate it. I hope to be as great as you someday but I don't think I'll be able to seeing as I am an incredible fucking douche
Que fucking sera sera.
@Fiasco.:The fact that you've actually held an arguement with him is proof that you long ago were victim to a mental implosion.
I literally lol'd
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@Fiasco.:
The fact that you've actually held an arguement with him is proof that you long ago were victim to a mental implosion.
Dude, it's for the lols.
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this chapter was of course good
but a little disappointed that the reunion between smoker and luffy was not more dramatic…well it is all fighting...so yeah..and when did luffy turn into a midget?..probably not shown
and i hope next chapter, Oda sensei tells us what message smoker wanted aokiji to relay to luffy when they first met
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Physically Robin is average. Intelligence-wise, Robin is a very strong person. On the tier rankings, she's the top of the Mid-tier three of the Strawhats; Worldwide, she's not much to talk about. What Zik is trying to say (in his usual sharp tongue) is that Robin is a strong person when compared to the other Strawhats, but on a global scale, she's not worth a second glance, really. Comparing Robin to say, White Bay, is like comparing Usopp to Crocodile: you just don't even consider that sort of thing.
The vast majority of the pirates/marines/priests/whatever the Strawhats have faced so far were average fighters at best. Compared to the New World Pirates, they're effectively classified as "weak". There are a few exceptions; notably, Luffy's opponents such as Lucchi, Crocodile, Magellan, and Moria. Moria having lost his touch after Kaidou basically shattered his dream, he's not even as strong as he used to be. Without Iron Mass, Lucchi too would have been beaten a lot sooner. Crocodile round three physically showed Crocodile getting tired: his hair was drenched with sweat, he was breathing heavily. He was tired. And Luffy never technically won to Magellan; like all the opponents since Sentomaru, he's been forced to flee.
In short, regarding the Strawhats, Luffy and Zoro are very strong, average worldwide, Sanji and Robin are strong, weak worldwide.
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Damn the chapter threads don't usually take one of these turns till around page 30-40 and usually monday night.
Anyway, as I asked earlier does anyone thing that WB putting the Decalvan Bros. in charge could mean he's going into action soon?
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Wow, Hancock save Luffy and scolded Smoker. She is awesome!
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So for that reason: anyone else liking how Doflamingo seems to always just be chillin while the war's going on around him (other than when he cut off Oars Jr's leg)? Almost seems like the war's a vacation for him. Next chapter he'll be sitting on a pile of bodies drinking some tropical shiz while explaining to Iva what happened to Kuma.
I want to see Doflamingo get his ass whooped. It's good to have some badass characters in the series, but I'm getting bored of him. As far as being a villain BB is more exciting to follow. BB has an actual storyline.
I think Mr. 1 would be perfect against Doflamingo. If Doflamingo's DF ability is manipulating strings, Mr. 1 should just chop him up with his blades.
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doflamingo may prove to be the most troublesome shihibukai to take down, i can't see that guy being pwned, he's always pwning others.
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with Shanks rival Hawkeye and Moria rival Kaidou i always thought maybe Doflamingo rivals with the last Yonkun…but prob not
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@Fire Fist:
The vast majority of the pirates/marines/priests/whatever the Strawhats have faced so far were average fighters at best. Compared to the New World Pirates, they're effectively classified as "weak". There are a few exceptions; notably, Luffy's opponents such as Lucchi, Crocodile, Magellan, and Moria. Moria having lost his touch after Kaidou basically shattered his dream, he's not even as strong as he used to be. Without Iron Mass, Lucchi too would have been beaten a lot sooner. Crocodile round three physically showed Crocodile getting tired: his hair was drenched with sweat, he was breathing heavily. He was tired. And Luffy never technically won to Magellan; like all the opponents since Sentomaru, he's been forced to flee.
I agree that in the New World we will see stronger pirates to go up against the SH, but it seems as though you are putting all the New World pirates on a pedestal.
I think from recent chapters, we can understand a little more about the New World pirates abilities:
1. Ace was mostly responsible for defeating Doma (Ch. 552)
2. Little Oars Jr. was defeated without laying a hand on a single ShichibukaiI'd say Little Oars Jr. and Doma are representative of New World pirates. Basically, my point is the New World pirates are probably not necessarily beyond the SH's ability. The SH's are top tier rookies and probably mid tier in the New World.
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I'd place the shichibukais a little above new world pirate captains. they can equals vice admirals like the other division commanders except for jozu and marco, those two can face off against admirlas.
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I want to see Doflamingo get his ass whooped. It's good to have some badass characters in the series, but I'm getting bored of him. As far as being a villain BB is more exciting to follow. BB has an actual storyline.
I think Mr. 1 would be perfect against Doflamingo. If Doflamingo's DF ability is manipulating strings, Mr. 1 should just chop him up with his blades.
Mr. 1 vs Doflaminog might be interesting if it works out as you speculate. But, because of his comparitive power and the fact that he's had his time to shine, I'd still see Doflamingo winning somehow. Perhaps steel wires instead of strings.
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Mr. 1 vs Doflaminog might be interesting if it works out as you speculate. But, because of his comparitive power and the fact that he's had his time to shine, I'd still see Doflamingo winning somehow. Perhaps steel wires instead of strings.
Or maybe Buggy will be the one. I'm pretty sure Buggy will be involved in defeating a major opponent during the war and further elevating his legendary status.
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Or maybe Buggy will be the one. I'm pretty sure Buggy will be involved in defeating a major opponent during the war and further elevating his legendary status.
This reminded me of someone's comment in the spoiler thread that Buggy vs Doflamingo would end w/ Buggy punching himself and the prisoners in awe saying "Of course! Only the great Captain Buggy could defeat himself!"
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@Brave:
I'd place the shichibukais a little above new world pirate captains. they can equals vice admirals like the other division commanders except for jozu and marco, those two can face off against admirlas.
This is a terrible power tier.
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Damn the chapter threads don't usually take one of these turns till around page 30-40 and usually monday night.
Anyway, as I asked earlier does anyone thing that WB putting the Decalvan Bros. in charge could mean he's going into action soon?
Possibly. If they're moving the ships to the sides of the bay it could be so they don't get caught up in his and other big boys serious attacks.
I'd place the shichibukais a little above new world pirate captains. they can equals vice admirals like the other division commanders except for jozu and marco, those two can face off against admirlas.
This didn't happen. Multiple Division Captains actually ganged up on 1 VA-Rons-the giant taken out by WB. Since he made it to WB its possible he won, he surely wasn't overwhelmed before moving on. Also what can Jozu do to an Admiral? He can survive for a bit, but he's not winning. Crazy even thinking he's gonna survive direct contact with Mihawk's sword.
I think from recent chapters, we can understand a little more about the New World pirates abilities:
1. Ace was mostly responsible for defeating Doma (Ch. 552)
2. Little Oars Jr. was defeated without laying a hand on a single ShichibukaiI'd say Little Oars Jr. and Doma are representative of New World pirates. Basically, my point is the New World pirates are probably not necessarily beyond the SH's ability. The SH's are top tier rookies and probably mid tier in the New World.
1. We don't know the circumstances behind Doma's surrender. For all we know Ace equaled Doma in a fight and Doma was so impressed/scared that Ace is only 3rd strongest he decided surrender. Or Ace could have made him a nice hat. Whatever the case if they sent Ace to deal with him he can't be only slightly stronger than the SH.
2. After tanking through an entire line of marines, squad of other giants, and multiple cannonballs to the face; only to be brought down by a triple team Shichibukai attack. How is this not way beyond the SH's abilities? If Croc&Boa can be Shichibukai, pretty sure these guys could also be invited to the table too.
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well, jozu just didn't stop any attack he stopped a slash from mihawk, that means a lot. then jozu threw that huge iceberg that none of the giant va's could stop but akainu. i'd say vice-admirals won't be enough against jozu.
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dunno if its ever been mentioned yet, but i think when kuma said, we well no be seeing each other again to luffy, he know that he was going to die. so my theory is kuma had just died recently, possibility cause :
1.just like jimbei, kuma dont want to help the marines with the war, but the marines think that he's to valueable to let go, so they made him self destruct or something(a precaution that vegapunk made)
2.something to do with what he said to rayleigh(whatever it is) -
kuma probably went through some upgrade that effected his memory but he still has it somewhere deep in his heart inside that robot.
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I hope the flashback on what happened to Kuma is quick. Many times the OP flashbacks require an entire chapter. I'd like to see more progress with the war.
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lol smoker got cockblocked :'D
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Oh yeah, and I really doubt Kuma's been changed like this less then a week from Shabody. Considing Kuma really is acting the same, I'd say it was something that happened years ago, before Iva went to jail.
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Gah if Oda is going for a memory wipe with Kuma I'm gonna be upset. I was hoping for some development with him but now he has become just a Pacafista with the Paw Paw fruit which is lame. I wanted to see him either try and avoid people he didn't want to fight or face them to kinda feign loyalty.
I thought Hancock would be more subtle but really when have we seen her be subtle? I'm really not sure which one will win between Smoker and Hancock. If Smoker didn't have a Jutte it would definitely be Hancock win cause Smoker lacks the destructive power of other logias.
I'm wondering if the Marines battle strategy will result in collateral damage/ friendly fire. Seeing as how Sengoku leans more towards an end justify the means philosophy I really wouldn't put it past the marines but Garp didn't seem to be sweating over the plan so it might not.
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Like I said: I love you Hancock! Hahahaha take that shitty smoke bastard.
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1. We don't know the circumstances behind Doma's surrender. For all we know Ace equaled Doma in a fight and Doma was so impressed/scared that Ace is only 3rd strongest he decided surrender. Or Ace could have made him a nice hat. Whatever the case if they sent Ace to deal with him he can't be only slightly stronger than the SH.
2. After tanking through an entire line of marines, squad of other giants, and multiple cannonballs to the face; only to be brought down by a triple team Shichibukai attack. How is this not way beyond the SH's abilities? If Croc&Boa can be Shichibukai, pretty sure these guys could also be invited to the table too.
I think we look at the same situation with different opinions. I agree we do not know the details about Doma's surrender, but if WB were fighting the SHs, I wouldn't be surprised if Ace were sent. This was also at a time before Ace even became a WB division commander.
As far as comparing Little Oars Jr. w/ what Luffy is currently doing, the physical size and power of the two characters is different, but Luffy has also had his own rampage plunging toward saving Ace. At least enough to get the attention of Sengoku, the Admirals, and Shichibukai. Unlike Little Oars Jr. though Luffy is still standing because he has had the fortune of being saved by attacks from Kizaru, Moria, and Smoker.
I agree that many of the New World pirates can or may have been recruited for Shichibukai just like Ace was, but I can't really see why some people view the SH's as weak compared to the New World pirates. I see them holding their own in the New World, but against YonKou is obviously another story…
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@Fire Fist:
Moria having lost his touch after Kaidou basically shattered his dream, he's not even as strong as he used to be.
theres nothing to substantiate this claim…
i'll agree with the rest though, if she was in a straight out brawl with any of the supernovas she would probably lose but her specialty is assassination so i don't think its fair to put her out there like that. If you have a physical body and robin catches you off guard she could snap your spine with a motion of her arms, thats nothing to look down on even on a global scale...
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Awesome chapter, i cant wait for more Hancock vs Smoker ,Kuma and Ivankov and Jinbei vs Moria.
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Gah if Oda is going for a memory wipe with Kuma I'm gonna be upset. I was hoping for some development with him but now he has become just a Pacafista with the Paw Paw fruit which is lame. I wanted to see him either try and avoid people he didn't want to fight or face them to kinda feign loyalty.
From this last chapter, I think we can deduce that Kuma is not physically dead, but figuratively dead. Therefore, whether it's a memory wipe or mind control, the WG has figured out a way to make Kuma into their pet. Maybe that'll be another story where the Revolutionaries or SHs find out what happened and try to reverse it.
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Oh and it was cool to see more of the NW pirates, i was thinking of Walrein when i saw that pirate.
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@Lordzeb121:
theres nothing to substantiate this claim..
Well, it's more implied than anything. The pirates who recover their shadows indicate that Moria fought on the level of Kaidou, one of the Four Emperors of the New World. Granted, Luffy had to go through a lot of shit to beat him (including using Moria's own ability against him and taking advantage of Moria's punch-drunk state), but it still didn't seem (to me, at least) like a Yonkou level fight. Either Moria was too confident or the punch-drunkness of Shadow's Asgard considerably weakened his ability, or he's just not the same top-class fighter he used to be.
It's further evidenced in this chapter, when Jimbei takes him down in a single blow. In his prime, I doubt Moria could have been overcome simply by one punch (albeit a powerful one).
Between Luffy and Kaidou, Moria's gotten discouraged.
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You know if the Smoker vs. Hancock does happen (as I think it will) and is shown then a lot of how we s perceive haki will likely come from the fight, I'm interested to see how it will compare to Nen from Hunter x Hunter, I started reading HxH a week ago and I'm wondering whether or not Oda will make haki anywhere near as complex as Togashi made Nen.
