I can honestly tell you that I didn't really mind 4 Kids at first. I didn't see why everybody was complaining about anime like Yu-Gi-Oh and Shaman King. Then, I was looking forward to One Piece when I heard it was coming to America. But, I saw the dub, and found out it was heavily edited from other sources. That's how I started to hate them.
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i started hating 4kids in the baratie arc. First threw the morgan-kuro arc iwas like this is some bad shit, but i can live with it. then the baratie arc justed pissed my off.
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I hate 4 kids 4 what they did to the Yu-Gi-Oh, One Piece and Shaman King Anime.
I want to destrot them all, the b*****ds!
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I've only really seen what they've done to Shaman King as I've stayed well clear of their version of One Piece.
First of all is the overcensorship. For example they don't use words like Death, Kill etc. Thing is, I'm pretty sure I've heard that just about everywhere else. In the Harry Potter films for example, Harry often states that his parents are dead a number of times in the films. They also seem to dislike crosses which again has featured in other seires without much problem. I will admit that violence and blood has always been a grey area for anime in general, but often you see two characters jump at each other then suddenly one falls down in pain. It's obvious the character has been hit by an attack, so why not show it? Sure, FUNi and Ocean removed most of the blood from DBZ but at least you see the attacks connect and frankly DBZ and Shaman King are and should be suitable for the same age group.
Then there's some of the dialogue changes. I forgot alot of them, but most of the time I don't really see the point for them. Same with name changes. The only one that actually makes sense is Morphine being changed into Chloe. But other than that, why does Horohoro have to be called Tray Race or Hao be called Zeke? What is so wrong with the original names? Zoro is a bit of a grey area. While it may cause copyright issues with Zorro (especally seeing as how a new Zorro film is on the way), I did read somewhere on the forum that the name Zoro might have been copyrighted meaning they should be able to use it without a problem. But do they? Oh no. Sure, like Ren it's only a slight change and R and L are interchangeable when translating Japanese into English. But even still, when fans know a character is called Ren and Zoro and the Viz manga calls them Ren and Zoro instead of Len and Zolo (until recently), then I think it should be bloody obvious that it's meant to be an R and not an L.
They also seem to assume that children don't know there's a world outside of the US, which is why in Shaman King it's never stated that Yoh, Ryu and Horohoro are from Japan, Ren is from China, Lyserg is from England and Faust is from Germany. They don't state that the story starts off in Japan, moves to China to meet Ren's family before taking a trip to America. Instead they don't say where the series starts, makes it sound like Ren's home is a few blocks away then go to the "Great Western Desert". Yet for some reason they seem to think children know that tiddlywinks is. I know about it because I grew up in England, but I don't think American children are aware of the game. They also cut out Japanese references. People know the series originates from Japan, so why make it look like it doesn't?
Frankly the way I view 4Kid's work is with a little quote I made up:
"If you need to make alot of changes to make a seires suitable for a younger audience, are you sure the series is suitable 4Kids?" -
wow…...you've pretty much summed it all up caracal
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Yeah I hate them for trying to make money that feeds families of workers while producing a product that makes children happy.
How dare they, the heartless bastards.
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I hate a little bit of hatred for them when they dubbed Shaman King. Hated em more when they got One Piece, but when Sanji debuted in the dub, that was the final nail in the coffin. I despised them after that.
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Why should I hate them? It's not like they've had any effect on my life. They have, perhaps, reduced the chances for certain desirable effects to happen, but really, if anything, I should thank them. They've brought something I love to a nation-wide audience.
Do not offend the Chair Leg of Truth; it is wise and terrible.
-Spider Jerusalem
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I played Tiddilywinks when I was young and Im from America. Any of my friends who saw thatasked me what that was.
4kids…I dont hate them. Hell Kahn might be a nice guy. But think for a moment in his shoes. Latley soccer moms have been taking things to an extreme. When I was young, there was blood, violence, and references to other countries. But I think these moms feel anything from another country is evil. They hound the companys to make it "American" and those complaints make Kahn in a bad position. Keep it original for the fans, and risk loosing ratings or better yet boycotting it(the soccer moms did this to George Lucas with Sith), or comply with the soccer moms and make everything fine. -
Originally posted by Captain Panda@Jun 29 2005, 11:24 AM
Why should I hate them? It's not like they've had any effect on my life. They have, perhaps, reduced the chances for certain desirable effects to happen, but really, if anything, I should thank them. They've brought something I love to a nation-wide audience.
[snapback]79867[/snapback]Watch how fast this gets drowned out.
OMG I HAT THEM….......... THEY RUIN ANIME AND MY LIFE!!!!! :blink:
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Originally posted by omae no kaasan v.2@Jun 29 2005, 09:40 AM
**Yeah I hate them for trying to make money that feeds families of workers while producing a product that makes children happy.How dare they, the heartless bastards.
[snapback]79807[/snapback]**Dang…
I don't hate them, but I sometimes don't get some of the editing decisions they make. If they ruin something, I'll look outside to see if the world stops.
Looks outside and notices everything is normal
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**Dang…
I don't hate them, but I sometimes don't get some of the editing decisions they make. If they ruin something, I'll look outside to see if the world stops.
Looks outside and notices everything is normal**
can't figure out if Solar Knight saw the sarcasm oozing from his post or not from that response
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That was sarcasm ^_^; . Nobody gets my jokes…
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That was sarcasm ; . Nobody gets my jokes…
Awesome. I figured you did since you've been here a long time ;)
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Originally posted by omae no kaasan v.2@Jun 29 2005, 01:40 PM
**Yeah I hate them for trying to make money that feeds families of workers while producing a product that makes children happy.How dare they, the heartless bastards.
[snapback]79807[/snapback]**Well, shit on their discussion, why don't you.
I don't see the big deal, I mean.. you aren't making any money off 4Kids, and yet, you're sort of defending the fact they've butchered someone's artistic vision. One of which, you are a fan.
So, why the sarcasm? - Maybe it does make kids happy over in America, but, I'm sure Oda himself wouldn't be happy with the pile of proverbial wank they've turned One Piece into.
It's a matter of listening through one ear, and ignoring with the other. But, there's no point in people getting sarcastic because people have strong problems with 4Kids Entertainment.
I, for one, don't particularly love what they do either. But I know that a dozen or so people from a Forum aren't going to storm into a big building, hold a meeting with the 4Kids Executives, and get the show taken off the air.
Really, I guess the point is, the aim is unclear. Do you people want the show taken off the air, made unpopular in the West, and never shown again unless retaining all the original content, Japanese dialogue, and subtitles?
Because, it'll never happen. There's too much money to be made of this cash cow, and that goes for Toei Animation, too. Not just 4Kids Entertainment.
So, that's all I'm saying on this, now. People should tone down the sarcasm, and get to the root of the fucking problem, right? - Sorted.
As far as I'm concerned, 4Kids Entertainment won't be able to continue dubbing/editing One Piece anyhow, there's too much to pick through, too much to change, too many plotholes being created, and so forth. Not to mention the stuff being left out that is considered violent or mature content. This show is going to be finished in the West before they can blink an eye, in my opinion.
And if they do manage to keep it going, and get all the way up to Alabasta and beyond. I'll be damn impressed, let me tell you.
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Well, shit on their discussion, why don't you.
Like you just did over in the saveonepice.com discussion? :lol:
I don't see the big deal, I mean.. you aren't making any money off 4Kids, and yet, you're sort of defending the fact they've butchered someone's artistic vision. One of which, you are a fan.
That's right, I'm not, but people with families to feed are. Are they bad for doing their job? Should we hate Joe 4Kid because he does what he's told from a higher-up that, let's face it, may be a shrewd businessman but knows how to market a product?
And I am a fan you're right! That's why I can enjoy the original and not spread hate about something that we knew from the VERY start could NEVER be better or equal the original.
So, why the sarcasm? - Maybe it does make kids happy over in America, but, I'm sure Oda himself wouldn't be happy with the pile of proverbial wank they've turned One Piece into.
You're sure? You asked him? You don't think that at long as kids, the intended audience, are enjoying it Oda wouldn't be happy? Let's not speak for manga artists popular the world 'round now shall we?
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Of course I did. It needs to be done, just.. really done hard, somehow.
Anyway, I mean.. I've said my piece, and as soon as all this 4Kids Entertainment bra and boxer-short burning is over, well.. I'll be as glad as you are, just we need to really get these constant topics sorted out, and then, leave it all to be discussed in the one designated place.
As for asking Oda, of course I haven't.. never met the guy, probably never will, don't particularly want to, either. But, I also have the sort of respect for the original work of an artist, sure, children might be enjoying.. but if someone walked up to Oda, wherever he is, and said, "Hey, guess what! They've changed the entire storyline to suit their own needs!" - If I were him, I'd be pissed off. But I'm not, and yes, as you've so pointed out, maybe I shouldn't be using my voice to dictate what other people think.
Still, personally, I think there's a fine line between entertaining children, and simply just dumbing down everything they watch. The reason most of the children nowadays are growing up with parents who don't have time to teach them the rights and wrongs, moral fibres of life, and of course, the birds and the bees, need to be taught somewhere else. And I'm sure something like One Piece just about covers a lot of questions in life, and so forth. Plus, children aren't stupid, they don't need to be shielded from violence, blood, and sex.. in a world that is now full of it, all over the television and newspapers.
Sure, there's no graphic sex in One Piece, but one scene in the animÃ
I recall of Sanji offering Vivi to share his bed, in a sexual overtone, is pretty much going to confuse a lot of children. I doubt they'll leave it in the 4Kids version, but.. I wish that sometimes, 4Kids didn't have to be so overbearing and righteous in what is acceptable, and what is not acceptable.I mean, look at cartoons of the past, Tom and Jerry, Wacky Races, Popeye … they all contain a lot of violence, cartoon violence, yet.. the violence in One Piece is all unrealistic, and cartoon style. Some of these cartoons even have guns in, just look at Looney Tunes with Elmer Fudd. He carried a shotgun, that later.. as far as I recall, became a corked shotgun.
But, the fact remains, children are still watching Tom and Jerry to this day, and I don't see them copying it directly, or anything.
And the end of the day, I'm nineteen years old, I don't need to worry about a show that is being marketed for children in the West, do I? - I'm choosing to quit the 4Kids Entertainment argument, right here, unless it takes place in the designated place, of course.
There's really no point, nobody's going to win, nobody's going to get 4Kids to make an apology… and even if they did, I mean.. would it make anyone feel better at night? -I guess the point is, get on with your lives, people. There's nothing to discuss here, anymore. You can't fight big business, and you don't even particularly want to, either, do you? - Would you walk around outside a building with a sign saying, "4KIDS SUCKS! and not feel like a total dork, achieving nothing?
Point made, and finished with.
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five words: Hammer Guns and Sanji's Voice.
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The dub is horrible, I understand that but it's not our life source and you can't make everyone happy even if 4kids did a good job. It's better to move on with our life and make living, get a job and raise families. Whining just wastes our minutes and astrayed us from reality. It's better then nothing, It's better to to wait for a uncut DVD reather then deathing wishing 4kids, like Qi Sanji said, get along with you'r life, make life, die happy.
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I stopped watching dubs after the trainwreck known as Cardcaptors.
It's interesting to see what they do, but at the core I don't really care.
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They destroyed PokÃ
mon, Shaman King, One Piece and Yu-Gi-Oh. -
Finnaly you people are relizing that complaining about the dub and 4Kids is pointless. Bravo I must say. Bravo.
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I don't hate them, I just don't like them. It's not like 4kids is special in that sense either, I don't like Disney (or rather Micheal Eisner) either. While it true that they're feeding families and making (some) kids happy, they could probably do the same and more with a higher quality product. What I'm trying to say is…. what happened to the art? One Piece was special in that if was for all audiences. Even adults could laugh and be moved by it.
sigh That's just the artist in me talking though.... the starving one with only one ear.
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sonic the hedgehog and ninja turtles.
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To be honest, I don't hate 4kids for what they've done to One Piece. I used to hate them, but now I just ignore them. However, I DO hate 4kids for the constant stream of lies they use to reply to every question. Why even bother to have PR and Complaints departments if they're going to go out of their way to lie about everything?
In all seriousness, I cannot name one instance in which 4kids has EVER made a truthful statement, but I can think of a few in which 4kids released several conflicting statements at once. 4kids strikes me as a poorly organized company feeding off of Fox, its big brother. -
Two words: One Piece
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I noticed during Shaman King that some of the BGM is the exact same BGM used on another series 4Kids dubbed Kirby. Now that's what I call cheap, having the same BGM in different shows. And I'm not talking about that the tunes sound similar. I mean that they are in fact the same tune. So cheap.
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When I for the first time watched Sonic X.
Oh my god!
It was bad, VERY BAD! >.<And now I hate them even more because of the idiotic One Piece-dub!
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The only 4 Kids anime I know that still has the original background music is Pokemon. Great; one of the stupidest animes is the one who's safest from 4 Kids.
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I think that 4kids is necessary in a sense. There can't be good without the bad and they make you appreciate dubs which are truly good. There is no point in complaining about them since they will dig their own grave. At the current pace they are going, they will either catch up to the series in Japan and have to abruptly stop or create a movie like they did with Yu-Gi-Oh and tie up all the loose ends such as finding One Piece, All Blue, etc…
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It's all part of their grand plan, the Dubs are so bad, that when people complain, more people watch to see what the big deal is, which leads to more complaining, which eventually leads to money in their pockets. As long as we complain, they win.
But I still hate Dubsopp's voice, I hate it so very, very, very much.
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I walk a fine line between hate and dislike for 4Kids. Certain parts I just dislike, other parts I really really hate.
I for one understand that since they're showing this stuff on national tv they are under law to censor it. Thus I'm not particularly surprised when blood/booze/swearing/smoking/sex is taken out. However, there is a thing called CREATIVE censoring. I mean, hammer guns? Poison suction cups? That's stupid and insulting to the viewer. For an example of creative censoring, take Samurai Champloo. For the most part it's unedted, but every now and then they have to bleep a swear. But rather than just put in that annoying beep, they used the fact that it's in the hip-hop style and bleeped it out with a record scratch. THAT is creative censoring.
And yes, I can appreciate that they're creating jobs for people. But the question I want the answer to is: how much of the money they make actually goes to these people and how much of it goes to Al Kahn's and other executives' pockets? Until I know that I'm not gonna put a lot of thought into this point.
But I think what really gets to me are two things: 1. the Creative viewpoint. OP is a piece of creative media, and when you edit it beyond the necessary and dumb it down then you have trashed the creative work of an artist. 4Kids ruined Oda's work, and if I were the creator I would be notably pissed.
2. The Dumbing-down part. You can edit things without making them seem really stupid. It just takes a little more brain-power than 4Kids apparently wants to bother with. I do think that kids are a lot smarter than people give them credit for, and their brains are certainly not going to develop correctly if they are smothered and kept in the dark from every bad thing in the world. Kids aren't blind, they can see the pain in the world. If you try to cover it up completely in a cartoon then they just think it's hypocrisy. One Piece is a story that has morals, and most of the violence and other "taboo" things are ways to convey those morals and messages. And let's face it, any kids who tries to copy what he/she saw in a cartoon already needs help. It's the parents' job to teach them the difference between real and fantasy.I'm actually reminded of a scene that I saw in The Simpsons. It was the episode where Bart and Lisa live with the Flanders family. They're watching Itchy and Scatchy and the basic bloodbath ensues. The two Flanders boys are horrified, and ask their father what the red stuff on the screen is. Flanders, not wanting to admit it, says it's strawberry jam. Then the older boy goes, "So if I stab my brother can I get strawberry jam out of him?" "NO!"
Kids should know there is a physical consequence to violence.
 
