It's almost impossible to keep track of everything going on unless you're able to pause every other scene to stop and think about what just happened.
The movie goes by that fast.
Star Wars Universe - Resurrection F
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Well, it's certainly a
! (CliffNotes version of Dark Empire) film that exists.
Better than Last Jedi but never really reaches the same level of the first half of The Force Awakens or any of the Lucas films.
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My view on the film is that it's honestly pretty decent except for the completely unnecessary reveal that doesn't need to be there.
! Rey doesn't need to be descended from Sheev's Palpenis to be a super powerful Force person. Just have Palpatine be all "Yo this chick is so fucking powerful in the Force that she can do Dark Side shit like it was nothing, bring her to me Kylo, I want to transfer the broken remains of my soul into her and do a bunch of cool Sith shit", it would've turned out exactly the same but without the awful taste in everyone's mouth.
Beyond that, and Rose getting done dirty and Sheev's return being broadcast over Fortnite as opposed to in the movie, I thought it was fine. Not as good as Last Jedi, better than the last half of Force Awakens, and still leagues better than Phantom Menace or Attack of the Clones.
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Sheev's message really needed to have been at the end of The Last Jedi but that would have required this series having a single mind behind it instead of being a mixture of largely half-assed ideas thrown in at the last second and rehashes of older material.
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Actually, here's a thought: have Sheev's message interrupt the opening crawl.
Have the fanfare play and role the title, start the crawl with THE REBELLION HAS WON MANY VICTORIES OVER THE FIRST ORDER and then it cuts out like static and Sheev's face appears to make his big announcement.
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Yeah, that would have been better if it wasn't going to be the cliffhanger to a previous film.
You could even have the static interrupt the fanfare just to push the feeling from the start that something is wrong; it already seems off since it was written to incorporate part of the Fox fanfare and doesn't sound quite right as a result.
Maybe even writing the first bit of the crawl from Palp's perspective:
THE SO-CALLED REBELLION HAS WON A MINOR VICTORY AGAINST THE FIRST ORDER BUT
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@Cyan:
Actually, here's a thought: have Sheev's message interrupt the opening crawl.
Have the fanfare play and role the title, start the crawl with THE REBELLION HAS WON MANY VICTORIES OVER THE FIRST ORDER and then it cuts out like static and Sheev's face appears to make his big announcement.
And then the opening crawl concludes with "…...Well fuck."
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Now that I think about it, the First Order really should have been setting up holographic projectors and playing it on loop everywhere they went.
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Linkara reviews the comic adaptation of The Last Jedi, doing his damnedest to explain why this was a good movie in the process. I still don't agree with the argument for why Snoke didn't need a backstory, but other than that I think he's pretty much spot-on, and in fact he brings up several points I hadn't even considered. (Short version of my issue with Snoke: This is a sequel. Palpatine needed no explanation because he was the status quo when the story began, whereas Snoke just sprung up out of nowhere in the intervening years and apparently the main cast knew him and somehow he managed to corrupt Ben Solo during the latter's training… That, to me, deserved more explanation than we ultimately got) -
Linkara reviews the comic adaptation of The Last Jedi, doing his damnedest to explain why this was a good movie in the process. I still don't agree with the argument for why Snoke didn't need a backstory, but other than that I think he's pretty much spot-on, and in fact he brings up several points I hadn't even considered. (Short version of my issue with Snoke: This is a sequel. Palpatine needed no explanation because he was the status quo when the story began, whereas Snoke just sprung up out of nowhere in the intervening years and apparently the main cast knew him and somehow he managed to corrupt Ben Solo during the latter's training… That, to me, deserved more explanation than we ultimately got)Why are people in the comments blaming Russian trolls for the TLJ hate?
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Why are people in the comments blaming Russian trolls for the TLJ hate?
Why do people in Youtube comments do anything?
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Snoke was always destined to be a bad character and if Abrams had the reins of the whole trilogy, there's no doubt in my mind that he'd just hold Palpatine's role in the Rise of Palpatine instead. The fact that Snoke was written off as a puppet hints to as much by suggesting he and Palpatine were in service of the same thing. I doubt he would have been explained, since Palpatine wasn't explained in the original trilogy and Abrams was just rewriting that. Dying at the end of the second movie instead was the most interesting thing Snoke could have possibly done.
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It's disney's fault in the end for producing this mess of a trilogy were nobody worked with anybody. Plan your shit out and make sure it fits.
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It disney's fault in the end for producing this mess of a trilogy were nobody worked with anybody. Plan your shit out and make sure it fits.
hopefully they'll can get their act together by 2023 for the next movie.
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About the twist…
! Would Rey have had an arc/conflict if she wasn’t a Palpatine? What would have been her inner turmoil?
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About the twist…
! Would Rey have had an arc/conflict if she wasn’t a Palpatine? What would have been her inner turmoil?
! Being tempted by the dark side? Coming to grips with her origin and her parents being nobodies who abandoned her?
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! Being tempted by the dark side? Coming to grips with her origin and her parents being nobodies who abandoned her?
! What’s tempting her though? I’m nobody so I should join the dark side? She already made that choice not going with Kylo Ren in The Last Jedi. And she always knew deep down her parents were nobodies who abandoned her. That’s not a conflict either with the story, she would keep fighting the bad guys, but her being a nobody doesn’t change anything from The Last Jedi to RoS.
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Was thinking more about the Snoke problem and I really don't think there was a meaningful way to salvage that character within the trilogy. The whole period between the original trilogy and the sequels is a bit of a blank where the First Order rose up under Snoke. Any explanation of Snoke would require examining that period, which just feels out of scope. Honestly saying he was some clone, puppet or apprentice of Vader or Palpatine seems like the best condensed way to give him a meaningful identity without building a whole other prequel trilogy-like story to describe his origins and rise to power or rerouting the sequel trilogy to focus heavily on him.
Snoke being a puppet might have been a more satisfying explanation if we got a chance to see a little of his relationship with Palpsmear, so maybe if JJ did the second movie and was intent on Snoke being sidelined, we might have gotten a scene with master rubbing his chin or something to establish their dynamic. Still I don't think any of that potential is greater than the value of the shock of seeing him killed and the interesting position that put the franchise in (which JJ would then undo because it didn't follow the script of his Bible).
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The decision to kill Snoke was interesting to me, but the way Rian followed it up was the death knell in my interest for this trilogy. As for Snoke, who knows what he might have been if JJ directed the whole trilogy? I think having Palpatine in the story in any meaningful way is dumb, but maybe he could have been his own player with his own gambits in the second film? I can say this, he was visually interesting and played by one of the best actors in the world, so i was looking forward to him a lot before The Last Jedi, just as I was looking forward to that film.
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It disney's fault in the end for producing this mess of a trilogy were nobody worked with anybody. Plan your shit out and make sure it fits.
Problem with this though is that plans change even as they're being planned out and even when they're stuck to the wall someone can easily come along and pull it off and put something else in it's place.
@Cyan:
My view on the film is that it's honestly pretty decent except for the completely unnecessary reveal that doesn't need to be there.
! Rey doesn't need to be descended from Sheev's Palpenis to be a super powerful Force person. Just have Palpatine be all "Yo this chick is so fucking powerful in the Force that she can do Dark Side shit like it was nothing, bring her to me Kylo, I want to transfer the broken remains of my soul into her and do a bunch of cool Sith shit", it would've turned out exactly the same but without the awful taste in everyone's mouth.
Shades of Batman Beyond "Out Of The Past".
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And this is why real life lightsabers are a bad idea:
https://nerdist.com/article/first-real-star-wars-protosaber/#!#disqus_thread -
Saw it last night. Headache: the movie. Like, everything goes at break neck pace, and as the Red Letter Media guys suggest on their review, it almost feels like things fly by so you can't stop to think about said things and go "…but wait a second, that's really stupid!". No time, we're on the next scene already! Oh look, another elipsis! And another one! And onto something else!
And the thing is, this pace doesn't even make for braindead entertainment, at least to me. As I said, more headache than entertainment (on a side note: the sound design definitely helped on the headache front, but I don't know if that was the venue or the original sound design, but hot damn. It was like LOUD NOISES all the fucking time).
Honestly, much more negative than positives for me: The whole third act is pretty damned terrible, most characters not named Rey or Kylo don't do much of real worth, new characters are non entities, the fan pandering borders on insulting (fans don't like Rose ->fuck you Rose, you're virtually out of the movie), all the "fuck you, Ryan Johnson!" scenes are incredibly juvenile, annoying and unprofessional and make Abrams look like a 15 year old holding a grudge...and I just hate the idea of bringing Palpatine back. "what can we do to salvage the trilogy -> bring Palpatine back! -> setup is done during the title crawl!". It's...slimy as fuck. It's gross. And...he's not even that entertaining? He does ham it up, but his dialogue is pretty terrible and, I don't know, I felt no joy watching him again.
On the good side, Abrams knows how to shoot & coordinate big screen spectacle. Some of the banter is decent. Kylo Ren's arc is the best thing about the trilogy, and Adam Driver goes at it with everything he's got. And, I don't know. I guess there's some emotion in there? Somewhere?
At this point, The Force Awakens is, by far, the best of the trilogy (without it being that great). The Last Jedi is a much better movie than Rise of Skywalker, but it's NOT a good sequel/bait for the final film. It was a hype destroyer, as brave as it was. What's baffling is how insanely badly planned all of this was, I just can't comprehend it. How did this happen? As someone else said, say what you will about the prequels, they were perfectly planned out and go from point A to point B to point C according to Lucas's ideas. Who oversaw this trainwreck? Who had the masterplan? No one? You buy the Star Wars property and announce a new trilogy and...you have no outline? I just find this incredibly hard to believe.
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After having watched The Mandalorian, I can say that I fell way more empathy fro Kuiil, Mando and Cara than what I felt for any of the new characters in the sequels. Well, maybe except Babu Frik that little guy was cool.
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So I just came back from watching the latest movie, and I actually enjoyed this the most of the new trilogy.
Finally now being able to read spoilers, I'm really surprised at what's being criticized. Not that it doesn't make sense, but all the points I'm reading are ironically what I found great about the movie RE: Villains, ships, and destinies.
The divide is real.
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Saw it last night. Headache: the movie.
When I saw the film for the first time, I had a migraine that entire day,so I went into the film having a literal headache. I went into it wanting to love it and hoping the feedback I had loosely heard was simply along the lines of Last Jedi, as in a minority overblowing a Star Wars film.
Then I saw it, got more pissed as I watched, and my headache progressed to the point of toward the last 20 minutes me actually considering "Should I just leave now, or sit through the rest. Which is the lesser evil to myself"
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Honestly, I'm convinced the only proper way to watch the movie is to pause for a minute after every scene to give your brain time to absorb it…
But when you do that, your head fills with questions about all the horrible plot holes. -
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Whoa, just listening to her for a few minutes and you get the dumbest takes and even dumber nitpicking.
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Girl has a Porg plush bigger than she is. She's got credibility as a fan.
She's fine in her other reviews, not watching this one as I haven't seen the movie yet.
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Whoa, just listening to her for a few minutes and you get the dumbest takes and even dumber nitpicking.
Interesting how different responses to a video can be. While I agree that there was a lot of nitpicking, imo she made a lot of really strong points.
! I was slightly annoyed by Rey being a Palpatine before, now I'm royally pissed off, because she pointed out in her video how this completely destroyed the thematic poignancy of Rey having the Force while being a complete nobody as opposed to Kylo Ren, who comes from a well-known bloodline. Now it just seems like only people with good genes can have a strong connection to the Force, which bothers me to no end.
Also she seems really funny and her impersonation of the Emperor was completely hilarious. I actually watched some of her other videos and subscribed to her now.
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When the main problems of this movie come from noncoordinating trilogy directors, I just find the need to nitpick every little detail rather unnecessary.
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Star wars theory liked it, and he's one of the voices on star wars I respect the most. But from what I've heard it seems like a raging dumpster fire to me.
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! kinda hypocritical given the force is what Finn used to sense the navigation beacon in ROS right? or am i stretching?
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I forgot to mention that some of the folks in the theater I went to walked out like 20 minutes into the movie. I didn't think it was bad enough to just leave. Especially so early.
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I forgot to mention that some of the folks in the theater I went to walked out like 20 minutes into the movie. I didn't think it was bad enough to just leave. Especially so early.
Maybe something came up? Or did they seem disgruntled?
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Have you guys been watching the Mandalorian?
! Baby Yoda is so god damn cute!!!!
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@The:
Maybe something came up? Or did they seem disgruntled?
Kinda yeah. The woman next to me sat through a half hour of previews and very little of the movie. She didn't check her phone.
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Kinda yeah. The woman next to me sat through a half hour of previews and very little of the movie. She didn't check her phone.
that's just what people with dignity and integrity do when they see Palpatine coming out of nowhere.
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Kinda yeah. The woman next to me sat through a half hour of previews and very little of the movie. She didn't check her phone.
Well, can't expect everybody to like everything. But I don't understand walking out of a movie personally. You already paid for the ticket, might as well suffer through to try and get something out of it.
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that's just what people with dignity and integrity do when they see Palpatine coming out of nowhere.
I think that only came as a surprise to people who weren't Star Wars fans in the early to mid-'90s. Coming back from the dead is just what Sheev does.
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Well, whatever you may think of tRoS, I'm really looking forward to Plinkett's review of it.
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@Kaido:
A tale of two Wars
A good portion of Last Jedis score is explainable by review-bombing - i.e. deliberate mass targing the aggregated score by angry fans. If you look at other measurements, such as "exit polls" taken by audiences from the theatre -such as cinemascore - you will see that Last Jedi actually scored higher than Rise of Skywalker; an A vs a B+. Generally speaking, considering the hype of opening night audiences, less than A- is usually seen as a mild letdown (for comparison, Spies in disguise and Maleficent 2 scored higher than TROS, the new charlies angels and Playmobil the Movie scored similarly.)
Theres also the fact that the IMDB score for Last Jedi is higher than Rise of Skywalker.
And the fact that both critics and fans liked Force Awakens on Rotten Tomatoes, and that the critics liked Solo MORE than the fans.
So no, as compelling as the narrative of "Critics are out of touch with fans!" is, I don't think it holds up.
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So I'm legit curious. What is it about the movie that broke it for most people?
Not just the usual complaint mind you, but like the thing that was "omg I can't even" for you.
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I've had The Clone Wars (CG, not Tartakovsky) on as background for the last few weeks and have to say I'm a bit disappointed I missed out on all of it. Starts off very generic kiddy adventure and gradually morphs into some of the better Star Wars Universe-building since…well...the Zahn books?
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So I'm legit curious. What is it about the movie that broke it for most people?
Not just the usual complaint mind you, but like the thing that was "omg I can't even" for you.
It's not just one thing. For my part at least, the movie was a veritable dogpiling of all the things I wanted them not to do:
! -Bringing back Palpatine
-Negating the "Your parents were nobody" twist from the last movie because apparently you can't just be strong in the Force, you need to be related to someone who was also strong in the Force.
-Having Ben Solo's final fate be exactly the same as Vader's
-FOR THE FOURTH TIME having the climax involve destroying a superweapon that can blow up planets in a single shot… Oh, but this time there's like a THOUSAND of the things!!!!!!111
! Also for being the supposed "GRAND FINALE TO THE ENTIRE SAGA", this movie was bizarrely lacking in closure. I mean, I always figured the endgame would be that Rey and/or a redeemed Ben Solo form a new Jedi order, one that has learned from the mistakes of the past and will not repeat them, but as the movie concludes, we're only left to assume that this probably happens later maybe? And then there was the whole "Finn has something he needs to tell Rey" thing that was introduced in this movie and given no payoff whatsoever, leading to JJ Abrams just telling us after the fact that it was apparently "I have the Force too"… which is something the movie only implies even though showing Finn to be Rey's first apprentice or something would clearly help mitigate my previous point that we're only left to assume that the Jedi will be reborn in some way… -
They could've done something decent enough with the duality of Hux and Kylo as main villains.
No need for a "Muhaha Villain" really. -
Saw the movie. It had nice visuals. Lighting, dramatic compositions and cool set pieces. John Williams did good music as always even if there was nothing really new so it was all just remixes, but the man is 87 and he had nothing to work with so whatevs..
First time I've been bored with a Star Wars film though and not caught up in it even a little, and pondering on plot holes throughout (and not just afterward) and actively thinking "cripes, slow down and breathe for a moment." . The title crawl shouldn't have given away the plot, it should have been the mystery driving the film instead rather than what got accomplished in the first three minutes. The whole final confrontation boiled down to reaching that point ANYWAY so why squander all the reveals?
And Rose was done dirty. Every time random new girl was on screen I just felt "Ah, you're the reaction to the backlash that doesn't belong here."
It was a Star Wars. But it was… kinda eh. I get that Last Jedi was controversial, but all the potential it set up was just squandered.
! Also, did you REALLY have to repond to the age old joke about Chewie and the medal? REALLY? Like, that's a freaking Family Guy joke there. We know, Luke and Han got one, and Chewie didn't for some reason. Don't call it out in-canon and squeeze ina scene to just randomly give him one with no emotional attachment or reason, just for the sake of giving him one.
! Also, the only time I felt anything in the entire film was the brief moment when Chewie was grieving about Leia's death. THAT was real and genuine, at least partly because Carie has actually passed. Everything else… eh.
! And who were they kidding with Threepio's "death" scene?say what you will about the prequels, they were perfectly planned out and go from point A to point B to point C according to Lucas's ideas.
No, they weren't. They really really weren't. Aside from the very broad through-line of "Vader has kids and becomes Vader, and the Emperor takes over". Someone could have outlined the same broad strokes for the prequels right after RotJ came out, and many did.
Lucas needed the films to start where AotC began in order to pace them properly, but he wanted young Anakin separated from his mother and you have to be young rather than a teenager for that to have any impact, so he squandered 2 hours of time on Jar Jar, Qui-Gon and young Anakin, and so there was no space to do the rest properly. RotS was basically trying to cram two movies into one to make up for lost time, and needed an entire tv series to fill in the holes to make it work.
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I'm trying to wrap my head around the different camps now.
From what I'm hearing, the tldr of the people who didn't enjoy the film is too fast a pacing and too much back-peddling?
And yet for those who enjoyed it… found the above irrelevant?
I wonder maybe if it's a matter of investment into the trilogy. If anyone has more insight, please do correct me.