@Daz:
Maybe when Disney have ALL of the money instead of most of the money they'll consider making original movies again. I doubt it though.
Replace the word money in your first sentence with:
!
@Daz:
Maybe when Disney have ALL of the money instead of most of the money they'll consider making original movies again. I doubt it though.
Replace the word money in your first sentence with:
!
@Daz:
Maybe when Disney have ALL of the money instead of most of the money they'll consider making original movies again. I doubt it though.
I saw another article on that, where some people who had worked in theaters back when the prequels came out pointed out in the comments that this is nothing new. LucasFilm was doing this back then too. Of course, that doesn't mean that this isn't kind of a douchey thing to do, but… yeah, it's apparently standard procedure at this point.
Needless to say, now I'm really interested in what The Last Jedi is gonna be like. That film will be pretty big in deciding how much I look forward to a new trilogy.
@Kaido:
Needless to say, now I'm really interested in what The Last Jedi is gonna be like. That film will be pretty big in deciding how much I look forward to a new trilogy.
I'm really excited to hear this because, honestly, this is exactly what I was hoping they would do. Making a completely new film series totally separate from the Skywalker story. Personally, I feel that story ended back in Return of the Jedi and everything since then has been fluff. Not that Force Awakens was bad, but it just didn't feel needed. Really, I just don't think anything can capture the same magic of those characters and that story at that specific time, so it's best to move on from them.
I do hope The Last Jedi offers a solution to the eternal Jedi and Sith conflict - as they've hinted at. Otherwise The Chosen One really did not achieve a damn thing, in the long run.
I'm interested in what the new series will be about. I mean, sure, the Star Wars universe has great many others things in it other than Jedi's and The Empire but, it is the Jedi that give Star Wars an unique identify. If it's just some guy in an unknown planet doing unknown things unrelated to any event or character that we know of, then how does it distinguish itself from other sci-fi universes out there?
Aaaaah, Old Republic would be so sweeeeeeeeeeet. Not gonna happen but oooooooooh.
I'm really excited to hear this because, honestly, this is exactly what I was hoping they would do. Making a completely new film series totally separate from the Skywalker story. Personally, I feel that story ended back in Return of the Jedi and everything since then has been fluff. Not that Force Awakens was bad, but it just didn't feel needed. Really, I just don't think anything can capture the same magic of those characters and that story at that specific time, so it's best to move on from them.
Personally I feel like there's something really necessary and NOW about the 7-9 trilogy though.
We're living in a time where it feels like lots of sure things we've taken for granted are under attack, where old victories are feeling meaningless, where evils that were supposed to be defeated are popping up again, where the "end of history" of the Cold War finishing has never felt like more of a lie, and where some of the major villains aren't just old bastards but young ones.
Even if by accident it's feeling like there's something oddly cathartic and honest about the plot continuing and looking dark again after Return of the Jedi.
In a sense I DO feel like it's moving on from them, by daring to show the hollow victory and continued issues.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
I do hope The Last Jedi offers a solution to the eternal Jedi and Sith conflict - as they've hinted at. Otherwise The Chosen One really did not achieve a damn thing, in the long run.
Considering the new trilogy largely ignores most of the dumber crap from the prequels, the meaningless vague prophecy is certainly not something I think anyone making them cares about in the least. As well they shouldn't.
@Monkey:
Considering the new trilogy largely ignores most of the dumber crap from the prequels, the meaningless vague prophecy is certainly not something I think anyone making them cares about in the least. As well they shouldn't.
I don't care of it's dumb or not; it's part of the narrative. Anakin was the chosen one. Empire's rise and fall, but it's stupididly astounding how we're back at square one. Force Awakens was good, but it was such a rethread of the past films and overall a nostalgia fest that it ultimately failed to justify the continuation of the story.
I don't care of it's dumb or not; it's part of the narrative.
If only it was ever explained or even consistently described by the narrative. Then maybe it would matter.
Anakin was the chosen one. Empire's rise and fall, but it's stupididly astounding how we're back at square one.
It's realistic. The stupidly astounding thing was the prophecy, I mean I think, again, hard to say what it was going on about.
Do we have to go over this again? (skip to 1:04:55)
Social Media Embargo is up. Apparently, they were working on the movie right up until last week which is why the premiere was only Saturday and why Reviews are just now happening.
Full Review embargo is up Tuesday at noon, today however we have Social Media reactions and holy crap are there a lot and they are glowing.
[hide][/hide]
I'm not sure I'd put too much stock in social media reactions being that, well, it's immediate gut reactions from people who are probably fanboys. That said, if the movie did indeed immediately please people who are probably fanboys, I reckon I shall leave the theater one happy camper on Wednesday.
All I can say is…
Reviews are out- 93% on Rotten Tomatoes with 100+ reviews in.
To synthesize: it looks great, has excellent action and humor, is very emotional at places, but does drag a little in the middle. Most reviews call it less derivative and very much superior to The Force Awakens.
Certified Fresh @94% with 126 Reviews.
Critics Consensus: Star Wars: The Last Jedi honors the saga's rich legacy while adding some surprising twists – and delivering all the emotion-rich action fans could hope for.
I am excite.
Just came back from watching it… I'll hold of talking about any details but I'll concur with the general consensus, it was great. Didn't think it dragged anywhere.
I found there to be a few too many climaxes, like, by the time we reached the actual climax I was pretty ready for the movie to be over… but damn. That was objectively amazing. (No really. I was amazed. Thus, nobody can deny that it was, by definition, amazing.)
Just came back from seeing it, spoilers below
! I hated it, so many story plots that where just stupid. A chase in space for almost the entire movie, is it so freaking hard to catch up to those rebels??
And killing of Snooke like he's some side character without any backstory why he's so powerfull in the force.
Fin's entire subplot was boring as hell and so was his sidekick who ofcourse falls in love with him after 1 mission.
Phasma coming out of nowhere just to die…
And worst of all the charcter of Luke and him not even having a physical lightsaber battle...
I'm a huge star wars fan, but at the moment I couldnt care less about an episode 9
So far everyone is being cool, but I'm just going to hammer this home.
We have a neat spoiler dealie here. PLEASE for the next week, Anything you think even Might be a spoiler needs to go in spoiler tags. Extra spoiler tags, even.
Don't ruin this for those of us who haven't seen it yet please.
Just saw. From the perspective of someone who was annoyed by all the shortcuts made in TFA this movie was THE BALLS. Holy shit. Couple of jaw dropping awesome moments, that's all I'm gonna say.
! >! Ok, despite explaning some stuff, a lot of the stuff was left unexplained, regarding Snoke and stuff specifically. But I guess it will be left to the next part. Or maybe an animated series or something?
! But how amazing his death was, eh? Eh?
It was kind of weird that his royal guard went straight for Kylo after he killed him, considering Kylo's the king now, but maybe they were conditioned or programmed to behave in a certain way. Not much of an issue.
! Then THAT hyperspace jump. Damn, one of the most impressive scenes I've ever seen. So much kinetic energy.
! Then Luke turned out to be just an astral projection. Insane. It's a shame we didn't have an insane lightsaber duel, but I can really live with that. Need to leave something for the culmination in part 3. Well, 9.
! I also liked what they did with Kylo. Had an actual character growth. He's accepted himself as he is and he wants to do his own thing. You can almost find yourself rooting for him in the end. It would be more effective if we've seen more of the past, though.
! Wonder how long of a time skip they will make now.
Why did they even start a trilogy following episode 6 in the first place ? The old characters are totally useless.
And characters as a whole in StarWars always sucked anyway imo(uhh). I don't know what I'm even complaining about.
Anyway, there are many many good things in ep.8, but overall it was an okay movie for me.
! you have daddy issues ? yes. do you ? yes. daddy issues for everyone !!!!!
I mean, even the girl in RogueOne had daddy issues.
They should name this trilogy (/this thread) "eodipus complex : the come back of the lost children"
! -I'm all about being unpredictable, but they can't just say Rey's parents are nobodies after all the hype they tried to create, it's anti-climatic. I mean, I'm not a StarWars fan, I don't care, but some do and I'm speaking on their behalf, lol
! -I liked that Carrie Fisher didn't die. (in the movie)
-I didn't like that Luke died without giving a decent fight
-I liked how casino-city looked but everything that happened there felt like it was useless.
-I liked Benicio Del Torro's character and his acting. But it's too bad he's just been introduced to set up new movies and new trologies, and new solo movies porbably lol.
-The title of the movie is misleading (because Laila is a jedi right?)
-I liked how a lady committed a kamikaze on the enemy spaceship. I guess she should have done it sooner though
-Finn's asian friend really had to be even more boring and shallow than him to make him look interesting.
-Also, hye my name is Rose Tico, I'm the person who's sweeping the floor and I'll tell you how to win this intergalactic battle.
-Why didn't they just tell people they were heading for a nearby planet instead of pushing FN-2187 to trigger this plot ? The whole movie wouldn't have happened if Laura Dern had told the rebels what was her plan. Well, the part about Luke and Rey still would have happened but not the other half of the movie.
! A chase in space for almost the entire movie, is it so freaking hard to catch up to those rebels??
! The rebel ships were faster than the first orders ships… @_@
Why did they even start a trilogy following episode 6 in the first place ?
Because they figured it would sell better?
! > -I'm all about being unpredictable, but they can't just say Rey's parents are nobodies after all the hype they tried to create, it's anti-climatic. I mean, I'm not a StarWars fan, I don't care, but some do and I'm speaking on their behalf, lol
! I think I can qualify as a Star Wars fan, and I'm delighted that she isn't a Skywalker or Kenobi or whatever. Like that was one of the best parts of the film! :v
! > -The title of the movie is misleading (because Laila is a jedi right?)
! Leia is force sensitive but not a Jedi. But, eh, yeah I think it's pretty strange that she didn't train to become a Jedi.
! > -Also, hye my name is Rose Tico, I'm the person who's sweeping the floor and I'll tell you how to win this intergalactic battle.
! Rose was a technician, not a janitor. That's Finns job.
Oh right,
! I loved most of the humor bits. There are a couple of well set up gags, even on the villains side. Makes them look like actual human beings with depth and plethora of emotions, rather than cartoon villains.
! Like the one where admiral Brendan-Gleeson's-son repeats Kylo's orders and he gives him the "Really?" look.
So, my take on the film;
! I pretty much loathed this movie, even more so because of how hyped I was going into it.
! The primary reason I feel this way is because of what I see as lazy/nonsensical writing.
! Going into this movie there were several major plotlines carrying over from TFA that I think we all expected to be expanded upon or explained in some way.
! What is Rey's lineage?
What were the circumstances surrounding Kylo betraying Luke?
Who are the Knights of Ren?
Who and what is Snoke?
How did Snoke turn Kylo?
What are Snoke's ultimate goals?
Why did Luke go searching for the first Jedi Temple?
! The list goes on.
! For essentially all of these plotlines we were either given a half assed follow through/explanation or essentially nothing at all.
! Rey's parents are nobodies, an absolute cop out of a reveal that could have been taken in seemingly endless and far more entertaining directions.
Not only that, but it just makes her seemingly effortless control over the force all the more inexplicable and tbh, downright tedious.
! Kylo betrayed Luke because Luke force read him while he was sleeping and considered murdering his nephew in cold blood.
Apparently Snoke had already turned Kylo (expansion? naaah.) and after pulling a building down on Luke (but failing to realize he wasn't dead) sacked the new Jedi temple, seemingly on a whim.
! We heard nothing about the Knights of Ren in this movie.
Were they the unexplained 5 fellow new Jedi who betrayed Luke?
Were they Snoke's personal guard?
Nothing.
! We found out nothing of importance about Snoke aside from that he was a pretty powerful force user.
Then he was apparently an idiot who can't notice a lightsaber being turned towards him.
What an absolute waste of a character.
! Luke ran away to an island just to be a hermit essentially.
There was also a strong undercurrent of dark side energy under the island.
Nah, it's actually just a hall of mirrors that served no purpose.
! So we didn't really get any payoff when it came to those major plotlines but no worries cause instead we got;
! A tedious subplot involving a casino planet, 2 master codebreakers and 2 incredibly boring new characters.
Kylo Ren flip flopping light and dark like no one's business.
Superwoman Leia.
Both senior force figures dying in super anticlimatic ways.
Luke spending the whole movie arguing against the philosophies of the Jedi but then ending the film endorsing his student(?) of 2(?) lessons as a Jedi and being cool with it.
Rampant overuse of BB8.
A new rebel authority figure with no build up and seemingly a big problem with giving simple explanations that could stop mutinies.
! The list goes on.
! Finally, the other big issue I had is that what exactly are left looking forward to in episode IX?
! All the interesting mysteries have been explained or just dropped.
Kylo is now the big bad…but he has no credibility since he constantly gets his ass kicked or made to look foolish.
Rey is still seemingly perfect and can never really do any wrong.
! For a movie that promised so much in both expanding on existing plotlines and setting up for an epic finale to this new trilogy, The Last Jedi failed spectacularly.
In contrast, I had no expectations at all, since TFA disappointed me.
! Some of the stuff you wrote I can easily agree with.
! Those unresolved plot lines don't bother me that much because it will probably be touched upon in the sequel. Well, outside the fact that I have to wait 2 years to find out what's the deal.
! Rey's parents thing might be a red herring. Or it isn't. Force works in mysterious ways. Why not make a couple of nobodies make a force baby to counter the rising of the dark side? Compared to Anakin's lazy ass origin it's perfectly fine.
! As for the sequel, I guess they will make a jump of couple of years forward. Hell if I know what we can expect. What I think we shouldn't expect is a well rounded and complete resolution, considering they want to make episodes 11, 12 and 13.
Just got back from the cinema. Was essentially nothing. Wasn't bad, wasn't great, just another movie.
My non spoiler thoughts on The Last Jedi
Daring, Divisive, Deep
! What were the circumstances surrounding Kylo betraying Luke?
Who are the Knights of Ren?
Who and what is Snoke?
How did Snoke turn Kylo?
What are Snoke's ultimate goals?
Why did Luke go searching for the first Jedi Temple?
They'll probably make another trilogy between ep6 and ep7 to explain these things
They'll probably make another trilogy between ep6 and ep7 to explain these things
More like animated series.
Just got back
! I much prefered this one over Force Awakens. I especially enjoyed how the themes of the movie were nicely wrapped up in a little bow by the end of it and how the writers made several attempts to subvert expectations from Star Wars conventions.
You were expecting the two most powerful good and bad guys to have long, shonen-esque fights? Too bad, they're dead.
! You were expecting Kylo to turn to the good side? Jeet, he's still evil. He's just a different kind of evil.
! You thought Rey's parents were gods walking amongst men, who's very piss cause flowers to bloom? Psyke, they were a bunch of loser alcoholics.
! I know some people really felt like this was something that had to deliver on the hardside, but me personally, I'm not interested in seeing this storyline play out yet again. Snoke as a villain in terms of abilities and personality, was only marginally more interesting than him as a plot catalyst. And what Kylo will potentially grow into without being overshadowed by him, is so much more intriguing than having another old guy on a chair, played by a charismatic shakespearian actor, who's just really good at being evil.
! By and large, the movie felt a lot like, at least visually, a love letter to the older movies, while at the same time, I feel as if the meta narrative really tries hard to establish The Last Jedi as a breaking from conventions. With Kylo more or less literally saying "fuck the old movies" at a certain point.
! I appreciated this movie more as somebody who respect Star Wars for what it did for Hero's Journey type storytelling. It feels like it's paying homage visually, while at the same time finding a way to branch off on it's own. The downsides, I mean I guess I can just rattle them off briefly:
! -Finn's sidestory felt sorta like an executive sitting down going "Finn needs something to do, have him go on a 'find guy who's somehow important' type mission". I appreciate that it gave him a bit of a chance to grow into his own. But the mission itself felt like one of those things that could have been left out entirely. Like yeah, we need a plot reason to break through to the ship. Why could that plot reason JUST NOT be there?! Then again, I really enjoy all the moments with BB8 being supercute and that escape scene with the stampede was really entertaining.
! -The flashback sequences were so jarring and felt visually uncanny for a Star Wars movie.
! -The crawling escape from the Star Destroyer felt kinda longwinded. Not a dealbreaker, but I felt like there were a lot of cutting back to the ship to establish that the status quo, is indeed, the status quo.
! -I also felt like we needed at least something more to go on in terms of the Knights of Ren. Because at this point, they will have to be set up in the final movie. This feels like it could become a sloppy rush job in the end.
! -Finally, this has bothered me with the first order since TFA. Which is largely the power dynamic between the Republic and The First Order. In the first movie, The First Order is a powerful, military organization that eventually destroys the core worlds of the republic ( I guess Coruscant too? ).
! Now however, we have been sold the idea that the First Order is on the brink of conquering the galaxy, but that doesn't mesh well with the power dynamic established in the last movie. Where the last thing we saw was the Rebellion destroying their main power source. So what they had left was a Star Destroyer and a Juggernaut? Are we to believe they could conquer the entire galaxy with just that? Like how terrible are the republic forces if they can't deal with it? Or do they have tons more elsewhere? That would be plausible, but the movie doesn't establish that. Especially when they put Snoke, Kylo and the Nazi general guy on the same freaking ship. Which in turn creates a pretty big difficulty for me to buy into the First Order being more than an minor inconvenience the next movie.
! By and large I really enjoyed the movie. Like even more than TFA. Way more than Rogue one and especially the prequels.
! I just came from seeing it aaaaannd because I did not fooled myself with believing Snooke and Rey's parents had an incredibly amazing backstory and unbeliabable linage I did not got disappointed with what happened here, except for the purple haired girl, everything else was pretty cool to me, You just can't hate a movie that has Benicio Del Toro on it.
Went in today and really enjoyed it. However, afterwards there comes some kind of disenchantment - which basically is the same I feel for TFA. Zilla has quite some points.
! So Snoke is the master puppeteer who orchastrated everything perfectly, absolutely saw through anything and finally brought Rey into a situation where she doesn't have an immediate answer to? Awesome! But then he… suddenly turns into a slave of plot and lets himself kill that easily?! Really? The problem with these all-seeing super villains is that it's really hard to believably overcome them in the end which exactly is the problem here.
! My first reaction when Snoke was hit was: "So you saw through everything, but why just why didn't you see through that?"
! Then my second reaction was: "Okay, I guess you just don't die so easily, eh? So, now you'll just put yourself together and laugh at everything, right? Right? Right...?"
! But that's it, right? And with Snoke completely out of the picture we also won't get any answers in episode 9, eh? So after all Snoke just... was there? And that's everything we will get?
! And that drama between Poe and that purple lady felt real. That is, until the moment it gets revealed that all the drama could be completely avoided just by her having said a few words and properly explained herself? Seriously? That's incredibly lazy writing!
! However, luckily Rey is no Skywalker because otherwise she probably would have inherited that lineage's incredibly low emotional distress tolerance. So Luke did some things he even admits to regret later on, and the best answer he can come up with is to go to exil for all the rest of his life? I really wished Leia would have called him out for that just way harder! It's okay that it might have taken some time to get over what happened. But couldn't Yoda have appeared quite some decades earlier and talked him to reason?
! Did luke even give the slighest shit about how Leia, Han and the others really felt? When he wallowed in self-pity all the years... Or had he explicitly to guard the totally not pointless mirror dark pit?
These new Star Wars films are fun and entertaining when watching them for the first time, but… that's just it.
Initial reactions without reading anyone else's opinions:
! >! As someone who hates The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi honestly met my most optimistic projections for it. Meaning its single greatest flaw is being a sequel to The Force Awakens.
! I felt sorry for Rian Johnson for having to write this film. TFA was clearly written quickly with little or no thought for the trilogy as a whole, and it gave us such a mess of a backstory and abundance of mystery boxes that moving forward at all had to be difficult. Namely:
! * Kylo Ren's very vague backstory, including his relationship with his parents (which needed to be covered BEFORE Han's death), Snoke, and why he turned (which has still not been fully covered and probably will not be outside of the expanded universe). The Luke/Ben backstory did not really work for me since it implied Snoke already had some hidden influence on Ben before the sleep-watching lightsaber fiasco, and it seemed way out of character for end of RotJ Luke.
! Other things I didn't like:
! * Leia's space walk. It was weird. Also, as sad as it is to say, with some reshoots and editing, this would have been a good place to write Leia out of the story.
! Things I liked:
! * The score. While this film still had no major set piece musically, I actually noticed it throughout the film. I remember a handful of scenes from TFA that had decent music, but most of it was pretty generic. Listening to the soundtrack separately only reinforces this point. There was a good use of Original Trilogy themes in this one, notably Han Solo and the Princess, Luke and Leia, Tie Fighter Attack, The Battle of Endor 3 (basically the part of the track that is based on Tie Fighter Attack), the general force theme, Yoda's theme, and the Casino theme which was reminiscent of the original cantina themes. Rey's theme, Kylo Ren's motif, and March of the Resistance were all used much more prominently in this film. In addition, Finn and Rose (maybe just Rose?) had a theme that distinctly reminded me of one of the main themes from Jurassic Park. I was very pleased with the score, and it certainly made me emotional in moments I otherwise lacked emotional investment.
! My overall impression is that while this is a solid film on its own, it is ultimately brought down by having to tie up/connect too many loose ends left behind by TFA. In the first 20 minutes it felt like it was trying to flesh out both Kylo Ren's backstory and Rey's vague motivations so I could care about them the rest of the film. Ultimately, I think that taking TFA and TLJ together and cutting out BS like Maz and Starkiller Base, we could have had a very good film to start a new trilogy and some interesting sequel ideas. As it is now, we have one film to tie up everything involving characters I still do not really care about. And the third film will be directed by J.J. again… At least I now have hope that Rian Johnson's new trilogy may turn out okay.
They'll probably make another trilogy between ep6 and ep7 to explain these things
Hahaha, I'd watch that trilogy.
How do we call them? Episode 6,283185307179586, episode 6.66 and epsode 6.9001?
! My overall impression is that while this is a solid film on its own, it is ultimately brought down by having to tie up/connect too many loose ends left behind by TFA. In the first 20 minutes it felt like it was trying to flesh out both Kylo Ren's backstory and Rey's vague motivations so I could care about them the rest of the film. Ultimately, I think that taking TFA and TLJ together and cutting out BS like Maz and Starkiller Base, we could have had a very good film to start a new trilogy and some interesting sequel ideas. As it is now, we have one film to tie up everything involving characters I still do not really care about. And the third film will be directed by J.J. again… At least I now have hope that Rian Johnson's new trilogy may turn out okay.
Initial reactions without reading anyone else's opinions:
! >! As someone who hates The Force Awakens, The Last Jedi honestly met my most optimistic projections for it. Meaning its single greatest flaw is being a sequel to The Force Awakens.
! I felt sorry for Rian Johnson for having to write this film. TFA was clearly written quickly with little or no thought for the trilogy as a whole, and it gave us such a mess of a backstory and abundance of mystery boxes that moving forward at all had to be difficult. Namely:
! * Kylo Ren's very vague backstory, including his relationship with his parents (which needed to be covered BEFORE Han's death), Snoke, and why he turned (which has still not been fully covered and probably will not be outside of the expanded universe). The Luke/Ben backstory did not really work for me since it implied Snoke already had some hidden influence on Ben before the sleep-watching lightsaber fiasco, and it seemed way out of character for end of RotJ Luke.
- Rey's parents were way over-emphasized. It should not have taken two movies to sort this out, and Rey coming to terms with her crappy past and her resulting lack of life goal would have been a great way to end TFA.
- Maz being a non-character. She did nothing in TFA, but her presence implied that she had to have a future role of some sort. This is swiftly dealt with in this film. Her absence was not missed. I'm sure J.J. will find a way to force her into episode IX.
- The Knights of Ren are MIA despite being explicitly mentioned (not by name) in Luke's recount of Ben's betrayal.
- Snoke being a thing at all.
- Captain Phasma and Finn. Yet another plotline that should have been dealt with last movie. She just shows up in this one to look cool and lose a fight.
- The entire Republic was destroyed in TFA. Seriously?
! Other things I didn't like:
! * Leia's space walk. It was weird. Also, as sad as it is to say, with some reshoots and editing, this would have been a good place to write Leia out of the story.
- We did not get a clear villain until the end of this film. Seriously, this is two films in a row without a clear villain. It took Ren two films to decide he wanted to be the main bad guy. Snoke had no purpose in either of these films other than to play Palpatine in the RotJ throne room reenactment. I still cannot take General Hux or Phasma seriously.
- Lack of "Star Wars" diversity. I will say that they did slightly better than TFA, and vastly improved on it in the animal life category, but named/humanoid characters are still woefully lacking. The original trilogy, despite having to use Halloween masks, makeup, and puppets, did its damnedest to give us bizarre alien characters, many of which are memorable only for looking cool. Not to mention Yoda and Jabba being major characters. The prequels and Clone Wars took the improvements in special effects and gave us a plethora of side and background characters of all sorts of weird alien races. Why are 97% of the characters in this film humans (outside of the obligatory Cantina-esque scene)?
- Carrie Fisher, Mark Hamill, and Harrison Ford were not on screen together. Considering they saved Kylo Ren's "backstory" for this film, they could have at least thrown us a flashback scene with all three of the original leads.
- Luke dying for no reason. Seriously, he used an astral projection or something similar. Why did he just drop dead?
- The purple haired woman dying instead of Leia on the star cruiser. Once again, it would have been a good place to write Leia out, and with fewer reshoots than the space walk scene.
- Admiral Ackbar dying with a bunch of no name background characters.
- The last shot of the film. While not as bad as TFA's helicopter shot, I expected the film to end at the resistance/rebel group shot on the falcon. The scene with the kid meant nothing to me.
- The tone was still too light-hearted for me. In Star Wars, I want my characters taking everything seriously. The humor comes from their totally in character reactions to the fantastical happenings around them (e.g. C-3PO, Han/Leia sarcasm, R2-D2 doing whatever). At least, this is how I always interpreted the original trilogy. TFA was practically a Marvel Movie in tone (Starkiller vs Death Star scene anyone?), and this one still suffers from an overabundance of "make me laugh" humor.
- The dialog is still too 21st century for me. It was better than TFA (where Finn acted like he was on a YouTube reaction channel), but I preferred the more formal, sometimes regal, way of speaking in all other films. This goes hand in hand with the Marvel Movie point.
- I still do not find Rey, Finn, or Poe to be very compelling characters. Poe had an arc, but I'm not sure he learned anything from it. Finn had a minor arc about understanding what he fights for, or something? But that should have been a TFA thing. Rey is exactly where she should have been at the end of TFA.
- The same but different aspect of most everything. The AT-ST's had extra doodads on the size. The AT-AT had extra doodads and was bigger (I seriously think I saw and old style AT-AT in one of those shots, and it looked half the size of the others…), our B-Wings and Mon Calamari cruisers are different. Etc. The rusted out sand speeders or whatever were a cool new idea though.
! Things I liked:
! * The score. While this film still had no major set piece musically, I actually noticed it throughout the film. I remember a handful of scenes from TFA that had decent music, but most of it was pretty generic. Listening to the soundtrack separately only reinforces this point. There was a good use of Original Trilogy themes in this one, notably Han Solo and the Princess, Luke and Leia, Tie Fighter Attack, The Battle of Endor 3 (basically the part of the track that is based on Tie Fighter Attack), the general force theme, Yoda's theme, and the Casino theme which was reminiscent of the original cantina themes. Rey's theme, Kylo Ren's motif, and March of the Resistance were all used much more prominently in this film. In addition, Finn and Rose (maybe just Rose?) had a theme that distinctly reminded me of one of the main themes from Jurassic Park. I was very pleased with the score, and it certainly made me emotional in moments I otherwise lacked emotional investment.
- Luke talking about the arrogance of the Jedi and how it contributed to Palpatine's rise in power. Yes, the prequels happened. No one has to watch them, but their lore is canon, plays a big role in how the galaxy reached its current state, and was interesting overall (if poorly executed).
- No dumb psuedo-science. While Star Wars technology may not be possible, it acted in ways that made sense (e.g. spaceships and how they move, droids, aliens being humanoid rather than eldritch abominations, etc.). Starkiller base threw that out the window with its star-eating BS, shooting across the galaxy, etc, as well as the idea of approaching a planet at faster than light speeds and having time to manually change direction. The closest this film came to that was the tracking through lightspeed, which I can give a pass for being described as brand new, revolutionary technology and not being too out there.
- The throne room and the battle of sand Hoth scenes were set up to mirror the original trilogy, but thankfully diverged in mostly interesting ways.
- The return of scale. In TFA, they hop between planets like it's no one's business and the first order has a gun that can destroy multiple planets from across the galaxy. The galaxy felt really small. In addition, it lacked the sweeping shots found in every other Star Wars film, video game, etc. where we see ships land, random wildlife doing things, aerial views of battles, etc. This is one reason I have problems with TFA being called "well directed", since I expect this sense of scale from a Space Opera. Also a reason I have trouble calling TFA a Star Wars film at all.
- Side/bonus scenes. I'm talking giant space worms, mynocks, scared baby ewoks, robot spiders in the background, Chewbacca and mouse droids, and anything involving Salacious Crumb. Star Wars was always filled with non-essential easter eggs, bonuses, and detail shots. It's what gives the series so much character. This was mostly missing in TFA and I was glad to see it return (e.g. the BB-8 slot machine, Chewbacca and the Porgs, Porgs nesting in the Falcon, etc.).
- I enjoyed the Luke/Kylo Ren confrontation. I just wish their relationship was fleshed out more/made more sense.
- The main threat did not involve a planet destroying super weapon. Just a number of smaller super weapons. Although, it was almost ridiculous by the time the laser battering ram appeared.
- The connection between Rey and Kylo Ren was an interesting idea.
- I thought the Yoda scene was well done.
! My overall impression is that while this is a solid film on its own, it is ultimately brought down by having to tie up/connect too many loose ends left behind by TFA. In the first 20 minutes it felt like it was trying to flesh out both Kylo Ren's backstory and Rey's vague motivations so I could care about them the rest of the film. Ultimately, I think that taking TFA and TLJ together and cutting out BS like Maz and Starkiller Base, we could have had a very good film to start a new trilogy and some interesting sequel ideas. As it is now, we have one film to tie up everything involving characters I still do not really care about. And the third film will be directed by J.J. again… At least I now have hope that Rian Johnson's new trilogy may turn out okay.
! This has summed up my major issues in a much more succinct way.
! As the the middle part of a trilogy The Last Jedi didn't really deliver.
! We had stuff coming into it from TFA that it didn't deal with/dealt with in a half assed way.
! We have stuff coming out of it that amounts to an unlikeable protagonist who never loses going up against a baddie with no credibility, who never wins.
! The movie standing by itself still had some pretty bad portions/moments (casino planet, flying leia).
! Overall, a major disappointment who's best feature was that it wasn't predictable.
! We have stuff coming out of it that amounts to an unlikeable protagonist who never loses
! Likability is very subjective indeed, personally Rey is my favorite character in the whole franchise, and by quite a margin. I'd also like to point out that she does lose to Snoke. Pretty badly at that.
! Likability is very subjective indeed, personally Rey is my favorite character in the whole franchise, and by quite a margin. I'd also like to point out that she does lose to Snoke. Pretty badly at that.
! I'm curious what aspects of Rey you like? How is she at all compelling compared to… any of the other leads in the cartoons, movies, books, anything. I'd only put her barely above Jyn... maybe. She seemed promising and I'm actually a fan of how her parentage played out, but other than that, she's not someone I want to root for. I don't see the depth to her character, especially now that her parentage plotline has been finished. Which I see like this:
! She is the walking embodiment of what Kylo wanted (I hope this isn't objectifying) as a person with no past connected to the sith and jedi, who is free to choose her own way in the galaxy who also happens to be gifted with the force. This is good stuff, but she's written in a really weird way.
1. She's unnaturally powerful with a lightsaber and the force. I can deal with the second much more easily than the latter. It's hard for me to believe that someone who has literally never trained with a lightsaber much more than the minute she exercised in front of Luke can beat the imperial warriors who were trained and raised, I presume, to defeat powerful jedis. I can believe that she'd be strong as hell in the force, a force of nature you could say, but lightsaber proficiency should be trained.
2. She's extremely lawful good, even though the dialogue acts as if she's teetering. There's not an actual point where one of her actions really seems like she's being tempted by the dark side or has a moral compass that's at all compromised from the jedi way. In fact, she seems good enough to be able to rebuild the moral core of the Jedi without the books that most haven't realized she took from the cave.
! The closest we get is her touching Kylo's hand, but is that really dark side shit, or a way to show her compassion? I'd pick the latter. She's not tempted at all by Kylo's offer, with her dialogue hinting that it's not even an option and she's literally (even though she seems to be the most natural force user in the entire series, based on power with it and her age) not tempted by Snoke. That would be too interesting, eh? No, he just treats her as the "jedi" the "light," that must be purged to complete Kylo Ren's journey to the dark side. This is interesting for Kylo, but not so much for Rey, since he has to make the choices about his place in a light/dark spectrum and hers are more about her safety.
! Ah wait. We did get a moment where she was treated as someone who wouldn't walk away from the dark side. During her meditation with Luke, he mentions how she saw the cave and just kept going. She didn't at all attempt to get away from it. That was interesting. But then he forgot and trained her again. That's an aside, the true problem is she went in the cave and it just revealed her as the key to the mystery of her parents. So yeah, she's who she makes herself, not a virgin birth or the daughter of someone famous... But what the hell does this have to do with the dark side and why would Luke say that it was at all a problem? I'd actually like to know from anyone if I'm missing something here.
! this was a rant.
! I guess I'll talk about Finn now.
! He had some truly horrendous lines, but the biggest issue is that almost everything he did was mostly pointless filler. I hate the word used in a situation like this, but I can think of no greater description. I think the point was supposed to be to get him to acknowledge that the rebel cause is worthy and move past his love/friendship with Rey as the crux of his membership. Second, it was setting up his romance/friendship with Rose for some reason and maybe introducing Benicio for the next movie if JJ wants to use him? Anyway, they failed and it was pointless, as was everything that had to do with him and Poe after they jumped in hyperspace all because Holdo didn't want anyone to know the very reasonable plan that there is no truly logical reason she shouldn't have just told everyone. And we're supposed to be satisfied with the adventure leading to nothing because a kid is inspired by the empire in the last scene? These are main characters and their actions had no actual bearings to the results of the movie!! Finn didn't stop the shield, he didn't break the barrier, he didn't save anyone, he literally did nothing of importance, whereas Poe just got in the way after the first ten minutes. Lastly, isn't it sort of dumb that Finn wakes and then we get a gag about a naked bag with water and nothing else is mentioned. The only seeming purpose of his long sleep is so that he doesn't get to go with Rey.
! So we end with a Rey who is now, um still good, but she wants to save Kylo and become a jedi maybe? We have Finn who has a new romance and is fully with the rebels (there's no reason he shouldn't have been written this way after the first film, imo.) And we have Poe, who might respect his elders more, but with Holdo and Carrie being dead, is probably the leader of the rebellion, so he'll... um, he'll be less gung ho.
! Only Kylo was given a real arc with real significance and payoffs. I hate that he killed Snoke because of what it implies for the next film: that we'll have Kylo, a guy who hasn't proved he's anywhere near as menacing, intelligent, or in control as any Sith we've seen in all 9 films, and Hux, who was the butt of jokes throughout the film and wasn't taken serious a single time, in charge. Kylo's chacter is great, but not at a place where he's a truly believable threat in a final film against Rey, who has now curbstomped him twice.
! This gives us two options: He turns and the now massively weakened empire falls to the massively weakened rebellion, or he's a villain, who isn't a truly believable obstacle for anyone since we just saw him fight a force ghost and lose the rebels. I guess Snoke could return, but that would also be dumb.
! I enjoyed watching this movie for a large part of it, but I haven't really enjoyed thinking about it... and I'm gonna hate these next two years waiting for the next one, which I know I'll still see on opening night.
! Thanks for reading my stream of consciousness thoughts on this cultural phenomena.
! Was at the cinema yesterday evening and loved it.
not going to go through all comments now, but have to give my two cents.
! I actually can't believe the main characters came up with this overly complicated plan (which, to be honest happens all the time and is a trope at this point) but this time LucasFilm played with the trope and not only did this convoluted plan happen, but it backfired in such a way that like 90% of the Resistance died because of it. If it wasn't for Finn, Poe and Rose the secret escape would have been a success.
On the other hand, if new commander "Purple Hair Lady" would have just announced the plan to everyone, there wouldn't have been a mutiny and they would all have survived.
! But in the end, this all lead to the most amazing scene in cinema history (with light speed into the enemy), but Poe actually got a pretty great character evolution out of this. He is definitely going to become the Leader of the Resistance in Episode 9.
! Still, the amount of death even puts Rogue One to shame. Man, this movie was a downer.
! I bet Phasma is just as dead as Bobba Fett was supposed to be
! Left the cinema pretty disappointed. Not because of the humor, the visuals, the acting, the amazing scenes and battles.
! But because the effing writing. Stupid, complicated plots, poor communication between characters and worst of all: this movie wiped away EVERY rebel victory since Episode IV. I could not believe what I read at the beginning.
Apparently, the First Order planetwide genocide isn't enough to rally anyone behind the New Republic? Fuck that galaxy. And this hamfisted broomkid at the end in particular.
! By and large, the movie felt a lot like, at least visually, a love letter to the older movies, while at the same time, I feel as if the meta narrative really tries hard to establish The Last Jedi as a breaking from conventions. With Kylo more or less literally saying "fuck the old movies" at a certain point.
! I appreciated this movie more as somebody who respect Star Wars for what it did for Hero's Journey type storytelling. It feels like it's paying homage visually, while at the same time finding a way to branch off on it's own.
! -The flashback sequences were so jarring and felt visually uncanny for a Star Wars movie.
I agree completely here. Except for the flashbacks, it felt like a Star Wars film. That is probably what I liked most about it as TFA looked and felt…not like Star Wars in a lot of ways.
! -Finally, this has bothered me with the first order since TFA. Which is largely the power dynamic between the Republic and The First Order. In the first movie, The First Order is a powerful, military organization that eventually destroys the core worlds of the republic ( I guess Coruscant too? ).
! Now however, we have been sold the idea that the First Order is on the brink of conquering the galaxy, but that doesn't mesh well with the power dynamic established in the last movie. Where the last thing we saw was the Rebellion destroying their main power source. So what they had left was a Star Destroyer and a Juggernaut? Are we to believe they could conquer the entire galaxy with just that? Like how terrible are the republic forces if they can't deal with it? Or do they have tons more elsewhere? That would be plausible, but the movie doesn't establish that. Especially when they put Snoke, Kylo and the Nazi general guy on the same freaking ship. Which in turn creates a pretty big difficulty for me to buy into the First Order being more than an minor inconvenience the next movie.
! I agree once again. This is made much worse by the fact that this film seems to take place mere days after TFA, if not immediately afterwards. That's an awful lot of galaxy upheaval to take place in so short a time.
@andre:
! I'm curious what aspects of Rey you like? How is she at all compelling compared to… any of the other leads in the cartoons, movies, books, anything. I'd only put her barely above Jyn... maybe. She seemed promising and I'm actually a fan of how her parentage played out, but other than that, she's not someone I want to root for. I don't see the depth to her character, especially now that her parentage plotline has been finished. Which I see like this:
! She is the walking embodiment of what Kylo wanted (I hope this isn't objectifying) as a person with no past connected to the sith and jedi, who is free to choose her own way in the galaxy who also happens to be gifted with the force. This is good stuff, but she's written in a really weird way.
1. She's unnaturally powerful with a lightsaber and the force. I can deal with the second much more easily than the latter. It's hard for me to believe that someone who has literally never trained with a lightsaber much more than the minute she exercised in front of Luke can beat the imperial warriors who were trained and raised, I presume, to defeat powerful jedis. I can believe that she'd be strong as hell in the force, a force of nature you could say, but lightsaber proficiency should be trained.
2. She's extremely lawful good, even though the dialogue acts as if she's teetering. There's not an actual point where one of her actions really seems like she's being tempted by the dark side or has a moral compass that's at all compromised from the jedi way. In fact, she seems good enough to be able to rebuild the moral core of the Jedi without the books that most haven't realized she took from the cave.
! The closest we get is her touching Kylo's hand, but is that really dark side shit, or a way to show her compassion? I'd pick the latter. She's not tempted at all by Kylo's offer, with her dialogue hinting that it's not even an option and she's literally (even though she seems to be the most natural force user in the entire series, based on power with it and her age) not tempted by Snoke. That would be too interesting, eh? No, he just treats her as the "jedi" the "light," that must be purged to complete Kylo Ren's journey to the dark side. This is interesting for Kylo, but not so much for Rey, since he has to make the choices about his place in a light/dark spectrum and hers are more about her safety.
! Ah wait. We did get a moment where she was treated as someone who wouldn't walk away from the dark side. During her meditation with Luke, he mentions how she saw the cave and just kept going. She didn't at all attempt to get away from it. That was interesting. But then he forgot and trained her again. That's an aside, the true problem is she went in the cave and it just revealed her as the key to the mystery of her parents. So yeah, she's who she makes herself, not a virgin birth or the daughter of someone famous... But what the hell does this have to do with the dark side and why would Luke say that it was at all a problem? I'd actually like to know from anyone if I'm missing something here.
! this was a rant.
! I guess I'll talk about Finn now.
! He had some truly horrendous lines, but the biggest issue is that almost everything he did was mostly pointless filler. I hate the word used in a situation like this, but I can think of no greater description. I think the point was supposed to be to get him to acknowledge that the rebel cause is worthy and move past his love/friendship with Rey as the crux of his membership. Second, it was setting up his romance/friendship with Rose for some reason and maybe introducing Benicio for the next movie if JJ wants to use him? Anyway, they failed and it was pointless, as was everything that had to do with him and Poe after they jumped in hyperspace all because Holdo didn't want anyone to know the very reasonable plan that there is no truly logical reason she shouldn't have just told everyone. And we're supposed to be satisfied with the adventure leading to nothing because a kid is inspired by the empire in the last scene? These are main characters and their actions had no actual bearings to the results of the movie!! Finn didn't stop the shield, he didn't break the barrier, he didn't save anyone, he literally did nothing of importance, whereas Poe just got in the way after the first ten minutes. Lastly, isn't it sort of dumb that Finn wakes and then we get a gag about a naked bag with water and nothing else is mentioned. The only seeming purpose of his long sleep is so that he doesn't get to go with Rey.
! So we end with a Rey who is now, um still good, but she wants to save Kylo and become a jedi maybe? We have Finn who has a new romance and is fully with the rebels (there's no reason he shouldn't have been written this way after the first film, imo.) And we have Poe, who might respect his elders more, but with Holdo and Carrie being dead, is probably the leader of the rebellion, so he'll... um, he'll be less gung ho.
! Only Kylo was given a real arc with real significance and payoffs. I hate that he killed Snoke because of what it implies for the next film: that we'll have Kylo, a guy who hasn't proved he's anywhere near as menacing, intelligent, or in control as any Sith we've seen in all 9 films, and Hux, who was the butt of jokes throughout the film and wasn't taken serious a single time, in charge. Kylo's chacter is great, but not at a place where he's a truly believable threat in a final film against Rey, who has now curbstomped him twice.
! This gives us two options: He turns and the now massively weakened empire falls to the massively weakened rebellion, or he's a villain, who isn't a truly believable obstacle for anyone since we just saw him fight a force ghost and lose the rebels. I guess Snoke could return, but that would also be dumb.
! I enjoyed watching this movie for a large part of it, but I haven't really enjoyed thinking about it... and I'm gonna hate these next two years waiting for the next one, which I know I'll still see on opening night.
! Thanks for reading my stream of consciousness thoughts on this cultural phenomena.
Rather than writing my own rants about the characters, I'll just quote this one.
More thoughts after a second viewing:
! * About 20 minutes in, Snoke has to explicitly explain why Kylo Ren lost the fight to Rey at the end of TFA because that film couldn't properly showcase what was supposed to be going on there.
! I also noticed that during the Luke/Ren fight, Ren leaves red tracks on the ground while Luke does not. I found this a fantastic attention to detail.
! Well i just got back from the movie, kept my expectations low and I happened to like the twist and turn they made and at least It's not a full carbon copy of "Empire Strikes Back" except for the ending which looks like the battle of Hoth but not the same and Snoke manipulating Rey while showing her the Resistance fleet getting blown up and Ren killing Snoke reminds me of "Return of the Jedi" but the movie manage to tell a fresh story. However some do not like it and I can understand that; the script suffers some problems and I need to point them out. Snoke getting killed was a waste, we don't even know yet who he is; how did he find Ren and what is his backstory. Are we going to find out in the next episode? What about Luke's lightsaber? How was it found? How can the Republic get all wiped out? Just who is Rey's parents anyway? Why are there's no remains of the Republic force to help out the remaining Resistance force? Why must Luke end the Jedi or why does Yoda has to blow that tree up? Where are Ren's Knight force? Who is Finn? Why must Leia agree on abandoning the main ship if they are just gonna get fired on or they did not go full speed to the planet?. There are so many questions but I liked the visuals, I liked the actions, I liked some character development and interreactions, but I found the ending confusing unless they are going to make a new trilogy around it. Since Fisher is dead but her character is still alive, how are there going to explain her absent in the next movie? Will the next movie finally answer some questions or will they just leave everything unanswered? It's a shame that Plasma played a small role in this movie and I really like Rose and wonder of her role in the next. In fact I'll be looking forward for the final movie in 2 years
After 3 hours of sitting on my ass in that movie theater has worned me out, good night everyone
This movie is one worth mulling over, but right now I think I left the theater having enjoyed it greatly. When considering whether or not various scenes worked for me, I had to think a lot about how this movie is part of a trilogy and so a lot of its plotlines won't be fully completed until Episode IX. If this was a two-part series, this movie would have failed spectacularly, but the overall effects of a lot of stuff won't be solved in this film. Just something to consider. What really brought it home was how this film dealt with some of 7's more controversial plot aspects, like Kylo's immaturity.
! So yeah, the film isn't much like The Empire Strikes Back, thankfully…but in retrospect, this was truly a movie about the Empire striking back. In Episode 5, it was essentially the Empire giving the main leads hell while they took detours and the overall Rebel Alliance is completely safe, whereas this film brought forth a true sense of danger.
! Probably my favorite part of the film was how it managed to devote a good amount of time to the three main leads. Especially Poe, after barely being in 7 the movie starting with him leading the charge on that Star Destroyer was a great decision. I enjoyed the complicated politics between him and the Resistance command, and how his immaturity hurt more than it helped. Hopefully that lesson shows in the next film. Finn's plotline was cool, and I found Rose likeable. While Rey still feels too simple for me with her main obstacle being her desire to find out about her family, her...uh, kinda training under Luke was filled with great moments and exchanges.
! I actually liked the revelation that Rey's parents were nobodies. I don't know how many complaints I heard before this film about how if she was related to the Skywalkers or Obi-Wan, then Star Wars would feel way too centralized on a few people. But now people are complaining that this is too random, I guess you can't please anyone lol. Kylo making this revelation was probably his biggest and most obvious "fuck you" to the audience and it was hilarious. Now, are we supposed to take this as the conclusion to Rey's backstory? I doubt it! Remember, in TFA when she discovered Anakin's lightsaber and had a bunch of visions triggered, the last thing in that vision was the voice of fucking Obi-Wan. I look forward to seeing how this comes together in the next movie. I mean, it's not like the plotline about Vader being Luke's father reached its conclusion in Empire; it went on to play a very large role in the finale. So don't count Star Wars' chickens just yet.
! Snoke suddenly being murdered was also outright hilarious, but so far I'm a fan of this development. I can get behind Kylo as the big bad now and it's neat to see him take steps that Vader never did. Of course, Snoke is too relevant to disappear altogether. The significance of him recruiting Kylo and basically existing in the first place can't be overlooked for the entire trilogy, otherwise what's the point if the good guys win in the end? You could just have another really powerful force dude show up in the future with no explanation whatsoever and muck everything up again if the sequel trilogy is going to set that kind of precedent. I will add also, the battle against Snoke's guards was fucking awesome.
! Some nitpicks…a lot on the visuals. Some things came off as too weird or creepy, like Luke's face in Kylo's flashback. And honestly, I liked CG Yoda in the prequels when he wasn't doing ridiculous flips; not sure if making him a puppet again was the right way to go. But I will offer this praise of the visuals: by and large, the sequel trilogy has managed to create money shots like in the prequels that have emotion packed into them like in the originals. Also, Snoke looked and acted fantastic; Serkis did a great job. But then there was the hyperspace kamikaze. I didn't have a problem with the idea of it, but I felt the devastation it caused was overdone. It ended up feeling a bit ridiculous and a lot of the theatre laughed their asses off, including myself. Also, Leia floating back to the spaceship. That was so ridiculous I deadass thought she died and became a Force ghost. Not that I have a problem with Leia surviving...just in a more believable way would have been better.
! When it comes to the characters, there was a bit of a problem with DJ, as I had remembered news stories of Benicio del Toro being cast in the film to play...a villain. So yeah, no surprise there. But really it didn't even matter since DJ wasn't in the film enough to make an impact. As for Phasma...she did more than she did in TFA (not that that was hard) and I was excited to see her fighting Finn in the trailer...unfortunately, that's the only scene she appears in. And she dies. So, uh, yay.
! Also, there definitely feels like a bit of ending fatigue since it seems a lot like the climax is set to occur on Snoke's ship but then the battle moves down to the planet's surface. I mean, we all knew it was coming since the planet was shown in the trailers, so not sure how that affected how I viewed the final part.
! Ham it up Hux bby. I wonder how big of a threat he will be in the final film.
! To close off, yeah the ending scene felt a bit weird. At first I convinced myself that it was a flashback of Rey as a child, but it seems to be one of the children on the planet that Finn and Rose went to. And like so many other things, the ultimate relevance of the children will be decided in Episode IX. I may never form a real solid opinion on this movie until two years from now. So don't let me down Abrams and co, a lot's riding on you.
Also, did anyone say "I have a bad feeling about this?" in the film? I don't recall hearing it.
It was all right. There were a lot of things from the previous movie that were resolved in a hurry. I'm all for subversion and doing the unexpected. Audience doesn't expect a resolution to a thread until the third movie, suddenly do it now! That's cool, that's perfectly fine.
But they did it with SO MANY things it just sort of feels like they had no real actual trilogy plan at all and this director just had a checklist to run through and just dismissed a bunch of things in one liners because he didn't want to deal with them.
! I'm cool with Snoke being killed suddenly, he was just copying the emperor anyway…. and it was a nice expectation defying surprise moment that puts Ren on a different path than Vader.
! But I'm really annoyed that Phasma got shortchanged AGAIN. Such a cool looking armor and great actor in what ammounts to being 30 seconds of fodder in both films. What was even the point of bringing her back if she was going to be that useless and minor a presence again? It's Bobba Fett all over again. Oh well, hopefully the inevitable spinoff material does something.
! I liked the Yoda scene. And that he was a puppet again and actually acting like himself, unlike prequel Yoda.
! Maybe it was just my theater, but huge chunks of the movie were just DARK. Lots of night scenes and cave scenes that were just hard to see.
! Withholding opinions on what they did with Luke and Leia until next film.
Obviously Carrie dying changes any plans they had, and they had a couple opportunities to re-edit to give her a greater sendoff and then chose not to.
Luke... if he's a force ghost and has some real screen time that'll be a thing, but otherwise spending the entire previous film hunting for him seems weird given that was the payoff. I did notice he was younger looking in that final scene so picked up on the subtle clue about what was going on but obviously not the actual specifics since that was basically a brand new ability.
Its hard to judge all in all. It's not what I expected, but that's entirely the point I think. Also, given this film takes place immediately after the previous one and they're meant to be side by side, it might feel different eventually when they're viewed together, rather than two years apart. (We'll have to see how close the third ties in.)
Also historically people didn't really like Empire when it came out either because it wasn't a fun romp and was all dark, but it eventually settled into being the best one.
Went in today and really enjoyed it. However, afterwards there comes some kind of disenchantment - which basically is the same I feel for TFA. Zilla has quite some points.
! So Snoke is the master puppeteer who orchastrated everything perfectly, absolutely saw through anything and finally brought Rey into a situation where she doesn't have an immediate answer to? Awesome! But then he… suddenly turns into a slave of plot and lets himself kill that easily?! Really? The problem with these all-seeing super villains is that it's really hard to believably overcome them in the end which exactly is the problem here.
! My first reaction when Snoke was hit was: "So you saw through everything, but why just why didn't you see through that?"
! Then my second reaction was: "Okay, I guess you just don't die so easily, eh? So, now you'll just put yourself together and laugh at everything, right? Right? Right...?"
! But that's it, right? And with Snoke completely out of the picture we also won't get any answers in episode 9, eh? So after all Snoke just... was there? And that's everything we will get?
! Seems to me that the point of Snoke was to subvert the whole "evil puppetmaster guy gets turned on by unwilling subject" trope Episode V established. I don't see why people would prefer to see him as just The Emperor 2.0 with a generic, evil backdrop instead of having Kylo grow into becoming a really memorable villain.
Just a question, if this is trilogy then what the hell is third movie supposed to be about?
! I mean we have most of plot lines tied up and resolved; Snoke is dead, Starkiller base gone, most of New order fleets gone and rest can be taken out by ramming some random cargo ship into them, there is no credible threat anymore, 'General' Hux is more incompetent commander than I have ever seen in any fiction. Kylo Ren is a emotional mess and as stupid as Hux when about military matters and very unstable.
! I don't really see any need for third installment because do we really need a three hour movie just to kill two retarded brats?
Just a question, if this is trilogy then what the hell is third movie supposed to be about?
! I mean we have most of plot lines tied up and resolved; Snoke is dead, Starkiller base gone, most of New order fleets gone and rest can be taken out by ramming some random cargo ship into them, there is no credible threat anymore, 'General' Hux is more incompetent commander than I have ever seen in any fiction. Kylo Ren is a emotional mess and as stupid as Hux when about military matters and very unstable.
! I don't really see any need for third installment because do we really need a three hour movie just to kill two retarded brats?
! Was that First Order fleet really the only one they have? That'd be pretty dumb. IMO they will still be able to retain their grip on the galaxy.
! I'd expect the centerpiece of the movie to be a climactic Rey vs. Kylo battle. The Knights of Ren may finally feature heavily. If there's a big enough timeskip between 8 and 9 I think we'll see Rey building up some new Jedi, like that kid we saw at the end of 8, and they'll go against the Knights of Ren. For all the criticism, Kylo still has a lot of credibility. He would have destroyed the rebels had Luke's projection not confronted and toyed with him…compare that to in Episode 5, when Obi-Wan refused to go with Luke to confront Vader and Luke lost.
! Poe will lead the Resistance, who no longer has a capital ship to kamikaze Star Destroyers. Simple siege tactics and multi-front attacks would also render the threat of more kamikaze pretty moot. Finn and Rose...who knows? The joys of speculation.
! Also, I don't really see most of the plot lines as being tied up. Snoke is dead but how he came to Kylo and turned him to the dark is definitely worth further examination. Also, Rey's past may still be explored considering how we heard Obi-Wan's voice in her flashback.
@Kaido:
! Was that First Order fleet really the only one they have? That'd be pretty dumb. IMO they will still be able to retain their grip on the galaxy.
! I'd expect the centerpiece of the movie to be a climactic Rey vs. Kylo battle. The Knights of Ren may finally feature heavily. If there's a big enough timeskip between 8 and 9 I think we'll see Rey building up some new Jedi, like that kid we saw at the end of 8, and they'll go against the Knights of Ren. Poe will lead the Resistance, who no longer has a capital ship to kamikaze Star Destroyers. Finn and Rose…who knows?
! Also, I don't really see most of the plot lines as being tied up. Snoke is dead but how he came to Kylo and turned him to the dark is definitely worth further examination. Also, Rey's past may still be explored considering how we heard Obi-Wan's voice in her flashback.
! Then where is New republic military? Are we really meant to expect that destruction of few planets in single system knocks out entire galaxy down? New republic supposed to have thousands of systems and trillions of people so mustering dozens of capital cruisers should be easy enough specially when New Order so brazenly violated whole ceasefire deal. I mean Empire was despate with whole Death star(s) because they knew that even with all empire's military might they could not hold control over galaxy without absolute terror weapon that Death stars were supposed to be. I don't know I just can't take whole New Order seriously after these two films… planet sized super weapon taken out with single squadron of fighters. Entire fleet of Resurgent star destroyers AND most massive super star destroyer ever seen taken out by a single calamari cruiser who rammed them in normal galactic travel speed?
! I know how original movies made joke how storm troopers can't hit a barn with blasters but New Order is so f*cking retarded from top the bottom that I expect next movie super mega star destroyer getting blown up by some storm trooper accidentaly spitting on the floor? Only credible thing First Order had was Snoke himself, he even mocked Kylo how he got rekt by girl who never had held light saber in her hands and how he pointed out that Hux was fucking clown and I was actually enjoying movie with him being villain...then he got killed. So unless he makes sudden 'just as planned' comeback for third film then I think I will pass going to see it on theater, I got burned really bad with TFA and while this movie was enjoyable to watch if you turned your brains off like in Transformers films and just enjoy visuals but as Star wars film this was pretty trash at least by writing.
Was the movie well directed, acted and entertaining? Yes. Will it split the fanbase? Fuck yes.
Ultimately storywise it was a slight disappointment for me personally and just very OBVIOUS, that disney had zero effing overall story planned at all.
J.J basically threw in his mysterybox in the first movie for the next director to deal with in the sequel. Rian said I don't give a damn about your mysteries you set up, I am gonna do my thing. And now J.J is either gonna follow Rians storythreads or once again change things up back to his ideas and we will end up with a mess of a trilogy story.
! I wouldn't rule out Snoke for certain. As we don't know his motivations or his grand scheme for sure. I hope it is/was something completely different from simply ruling the galaxy and being Palps 2.0.
! Maybe his father was a furniture manufacturer who got ridiculed by the senate and the Jedi saying that no one gives a fuck about his Brobdingnagian thrones. So Snoke set up his grand scheme in order to create a situation with lots of splinter groups where everyone will claim to be the ruler of the galaxy. And of course everyone of these wannabe-rulers needs the proper pimp chair.