To be fair, episode 6 wasn't exactly planned out either. I'm sure the incest in Empire Strikes Back wasn't intentional.
Star Wars Universe - Resurrection F
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@TLC:
To be fair, episode 6 wasn't exactly planned out either. I'm sure the incest in Empire Strikes Back wasn't intentional.
I know for a fact RotJ's ending was rewritten to be a more happy ending. And is one of the reasons Gary Kurtz left so your prorobly right.
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I think it work sometimes though to let the ending come naturally during writing. Sometimes characters and stories evolve, and it's difficult to let that occur if everything's set in stone, especially if different directors are taking the helm in each film where they'll have a different vision when continuing the story. But eh, the process is working for Marvel I guess so I can see the argument for both sides (and I'm not really certain how tight Marvel's "vision" is for the overall story of the Marvel Cinematic Universe).
For example, Poe Dameron.
! Having trouble linking sites, but he was originally supposed to die early on. They (Abrams) just liked his character so much they kept him on (which kinda shows given how peripheral he was in the second half of the film).
Also don't know how fair it is to let behind the scenes knowledge affect the viewing of the film. You have a different mindset when you're aware of what's going on behind the curtain.
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When I first watched TFA I was a little bothered by the similar plot structure, but when I watched it again I took more note of the intricacies that made it its own film, and was satisfied.
The worst part of the film was Starkiller Base, as it just seemed there to provide a larger scale threat which of course immediately went away. I'd have preferred if it was still under development in this film, but its threat was mentioned to give a better lead in to the sequels. Honestly, the heart and soul of this film was the interactions between characters old and new and how the new characters slowly mold into their roles for the new generation's fight, and it showed how good Episode II could have been if characters interacted like they did here. Now I'm begging that they don't recreate Starkiller Base for IX.
One of the best parts of the prequels was that they told their own stories, whether fans liked them or not. The sequels need to define their own separate story.
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Watching it again, I'm still of the same mind as the first time I watched it.
The film's strengths are the chemistry of the leads and the humor; the weakness is that it basically turns into the EU for the second half by rehashing the original trilogy and the oddly small scale it operates on.
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Okay, so my mother really wanted to watch the first six movies before seeing The Force Awakens. We saw Phantom Menace and Clone Wars, and immediately gave up. PM doesn't bother me, but oh my god, Clone Wars was nearly three hours of nothing happening until Yoda came and told everyone to go home.
Maybe it's the whiplash of going through those two, but I absolutely adored The Force Awakens. Like, I'm not even a diehard Star Wars fan, but I want the next movie immediately. Right now. I'm ready.
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- I love the coward to hero complexity of Finn.
- I love the unbelievable potential of Rei.
- I love Poe and I am married to him, and he is mine now.
- I will make fun of Kylo Dark'ness Dementia Raven "MY NAME ISN'T BEN, DAD!!!" Lemongrab Ren for as long as I live, but he is far more reasonable and realistic of a character than Anakin ever was in the prequels.
- I want to see more from Phasma.
- I feel like Han Solo's character of being the 'non-believer' ally has been complete and his demise was well place and done. And let me just say: I was terrified of the very idea of J.J. Abrams, of all fucking people, killing someone in Star Wars in such a way that anyone would mourn AND accept the death. He managed to succeed.
- A lot of people are talking about Finn x Poe, and while I'm 1000% for it, it will never happen.
- I am so happy to see Rei, and I will fight anyone on her character depth! My nieces have a female Jedi hero to look up to in the public eye, and I am overjoyed for this!
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Next movie! Now!
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The next movie will be "weird", they say. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-8-is-going-to-be-weird-promises-screenwriter-a6788031.html
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It's always a mistake.
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J.J. Abrams delivered exactly the movie you would expect him to deliver for Star Wars, and it was a ood safe bet that did everything right it needed to to instill trust.
Next movie gets a weird director and can go in any direction they want… and they're going to start tossing out Bobba Fett and young Han Solo movies and whatnot, so eventually it won't matter as much how good/bad a given entry is once its an annual franchise... but this first one out was exactly what it needed to be.
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The next movie will be "weird", they say. http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/star-wars-8-is-going-to-be-weird-promises-screenwriter-a6788031.html
Nice to hear there will also be a Han prequel and some heist movie in between. I'm surprised ep. 7 didn't have an easter egg during the credits or something.
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Poe really was fun.
! I'm so glad he miraculously survived. I did like his interactions with Finn. I do hope in the next ones he gets a wee bit more time. Also I wish I could find that interview where Oscar said he was playing their friendship like a romance lol. I'm fairly sure he was mostly joking but still. I'm like oh god don't give fanfiction writers more ammo.
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@TLC:
To be fair, episode 6 wasn't exactly planned out either. I'm sure the incest in Empire Strikes Back wasn't intentional.
I think it work sometimes though to let the ending come naturally during writing. Sometimes characters and stories evolve, and it's difficult to let that occur if everything's set in stone, especially if different directors are taking the helm in each film where they'll have a different vision when continuing the story. But eh, the process is working for Marvel I guess so I can see the argument for both sides (and I'm not really certain how tight Marvel's "vision" is for the overall story of the Marvel Cinematic Universe).
For example, Poe Dameron.
! Having trouble linking sites, but he was originally supposed to die early on. They (Abrams) just liked his character so much they kept him on (which kinda shows given how peripheral he was in the second half of the film).
Also don't know how fair it is to let behind the scenes knowledge affect the viewing of the film. You have a different mindset when you're aware of what's going on behind the curtain.
Updating your writing from the initial idea can be totally fine cough How I Met Your Mother cough, but changing stuff up in the middle of your movie is pretty terrible (Wait, I guess we have to ditch this scene! Also, shoot some new ones because of this idea I just had!), because you just end up frankensteining different ideas together on the fly to meet your deadline. And while I don't think you need to have a cast-iron plan 10 years in advance for your franchise, there should still be a firm interaction between the runners of each trilogy installment. Otherwise, JJ Abrams might be doing setups for something Colin Trevorrov have totally different plans for, or keeping characters alive that others don't know what to do with.
The more slapdash things seem, the less confidence I have, is all I'm saying.
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Changing up stuff in the middle of production because you have a better idea happens all the time. Granted, you should have a filming script and a basic structure set in place, most films do its how they set their budgets, but if something comes along in the course of the three years it takes to make one of these monstrosities that just feels like a much better or stronger idea (or is based around positive reaction to a certain character or actor) then its not a bad thing.
Wizard of Oz and Gone with the Wind both famously changed a lot of things mid production, including directors, for instance. Emporer's New Groove went from trying to be a serious epic to being what it became. Ratatouille went through maaaasive shifts halfway through, including killing one of the main characters. Martin Sheen was originally just going to be a guest star on West Wing, and then after the first day he was on set he had such a strong performance they rejiggered everything to make him the actual lead. Etc etc.
But yes, generally, the cheaper less time consuming writing process should be done and vetted and reworked strongly to get a very strong layout first in an ideal environment… otherwise you end up with stuff like Iron Man 2.
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J.J. Abrams delivered exactly the movie you would expect him to deliver for Star Wars, and it was a ood safe bet that did everything right it needed to to instill trust.
Next movie gets a weird director and can go in any direction they want… and they're going to start tossing out Bobba Fett and young Han Solo movies and whatnot, so eventually it won't matter as much how good/bad a given entry is once its an annual franchise... but this first one out was exactly what it needed to be.
"Safe" is again the key word here. The movie could've been a sequel, but opted to be more of a Soft Reboot, or Original Trilogy - Remix. I'm not saying its wrong to enjoy the latter, just because I was hoping for the former, thats totally fair. But TFA really isn't the "one true possible way this movie could have turned out in this context". Theres absolutely no way this movie could fail to be succesful, and it'd take an extraordinary disaster to clear the low, low bar set by the prequels. You could've made a movie that was just as much of a shot in the arm to SW as this one, while simultaneously keeping it newer and fresher.
! Really, drop the Deathstar mark 3, maybe don't hide holographic plans in a lost droid, don't switch "Rebels" for "Resistance" and maintain the same look despite a 40 year time jump, and switch up some of the planets to be less Tattoine, Yavin or Hoth and you'd be golden… At least as far as I'm concerned. All of these things are "safe" choices, but the only one that would require major workarounds to change from the current movie, is Starkiller base
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
on editing
True, its a long process, but I figure that if theres any situation where you'd want to plan out properly its with mega multi-film franchises, with new installments slated for the next half decade; What arcs will characters experience over the course of the movies, what characters will be kept over the movies, who do we need to market and make toys for etc. I might just be very naive of me, but when you get as far as to film entire scenes-and even put some of them in the trailers- its a bit late to decide that it doesn't fit the movie anymore, when it releases 6 months later.
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Scenes in trailers get cut from final films allllll the time. It's incredibly rare that a film is in final cut when trailers are being made 6-12 months in advance. And sometimes they're purely reworked just to be able to give a concept of the movie in 3 seconds.
Rough cuts of films almost always run for three hours and then get cut down to about 2 in the process. Sometimes you just don't know a scene is too long or redundant or says too much until you really have it in context of everything else and you're seeing it in film format rather than on the page. (And similarly director's cuts often add those scenes back in, stuff that was fine but wasn't important in a theatrical run time) Reshoots are common too.
And yes, with a project this big with this much money on the line, they must have at least some sort of outline of the major beats that a few people know (these three or four characters are the main leads, movis 8's plot in two sentences, etc.) but more minor stuff like "this character turned out to be fun once the actor was in place so we decided to keep him around, but his role in this is small as a result.' doesn't have to be fully mapped out… especially in a franchise that will get a million spinoff books and cartoons and whatnot to flesh out those smaller things and characters.
Heck, Star Wars Rebels is basically turned into full blown Clone Wars season 7 now with all its returning minor characters and callbacks.
@Daz:
"Safe" is again the key word here. The movie could've been a sequel, but opted to be more of a Soft Reboot, or Original Trilogy - Remix.
No argument there, they had about three too many harkenings back to the original, where at some point it stops being homage or part of the universe and becomes repetitive.
But the overall movie and tone and the kinds of action scenes and pacing and use of old characters and the general way they went about it is what was safe. They reeeally didn't need the thing that provides the problem in the end, but having the millenium falcon, Han and Chewie around for a while were solid and worth having. Desert planet in and of itself was fine, the real problem there is that the franchise has been on Tatooine five times already so that was pushing it within the franchise.
And yes, the movie was guaranteed to make money no matter what… but if it turned out to not be better than decent, there'd be dimishing returns next time around and a continued loss of trust, especially in a franchise that was so damaged by the prequels. Shrek 1 and 2 gave Shrek 3 a great Box office, but Shrek 3 destroyed the box office for Shrek 4... Man of Steel made money but DC is so terrified by the split reaction they immediately threw Batman into the mix for the next film rather than have MoS2. Spiderman 3 damaged ASM, and ASM2 made money but was so badly recieved they scrapped making it a trilogy and let Marvel have a go. Fantastic Four is dead for another decade. Etc.
I'm really curious to see how Avatar 2 ultimately does. Without the novelty of the 3D being new or the effects, and with other big flashy franchises out there...
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Damaged by the Prequels is an odd charge to make considering that Revenge of the Sith made $850 million at the box office and cost just over half as much to make as TFA.
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Damaged by the Prequels is an odd charge to make considering that Revenge of the Sith made $850 million at the box office and cost just over half as much to make as TFA.
"It was the good one of the three!"
No one likes the prequels but they made a shitload of money. It's a weird thing.
At least with Phantom it had the excuse of being the first movie in decades and no one wanted to believe it was bad.
Spiderman 3 also made 900 million and everyone agreed right out the gate that one was awful.
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No one likes the prequels but they made a shitload of money. It's a weird thing.
Well I think you blame that on investment both from the people who liked it and those who simply hung around for one reason or the next.
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Well, in the case of 1, it's the hype of new star wars
in the case of 2, it's probably the attraction of much less Jar Jar, a more adult Anakin, storm troopers, and Yoda and Samuel L. Windu fighting (which turned out to be either too little or too much on screen)
in the case of 3, there were definitely word of mouth saying "yeah this one's pretty decent" and you may as well watch it because this is the last of them -
@Purple:
Yoda and Samuel L. Windu fighting (which turned out to be either too little or too much on screen)
Yoda fighting Christopher Lee is the most surreal part of the already surreal Attack of the Clones, also the only thing worth remembering from it.
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@Cyan:
Yoda fighting Christopher Lee is the most surreal part of the already surreal Attack of the Clones, also the only thing worth remembering from it.
And even this was ruined in the first 10 minutes of episode 3. And why they didn't keeped cartoon Grievous?
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Because he would have killed everyone.
Cartoon Grievous was an lean mean jedi killing machine. And I'll miss him.
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Adding "make Grievous threatening" to the list of things Clone Wars fixed.
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And why they didn't keeped cartoon Grievous?
Because that was just Genndy's guess at what the character would be like based on art and a vague description of him and was never what the character was actually intended to be.
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When you misread a post and think LeVar Burton is starting a feud.
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Georgie is jealous of TFA's success; calls Disney white slavers.
I'm wondering if they through those people into slavery under threat of making them do a Christmas movie with Tim Allen:ninja:.
Other then that he's basically making the same criticism other's people were making about the movie feeling too familiar.
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It must really suck to be completely unable to tell a joke without people taking it seriously; that line will be quoted for years down the road without any context.
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The one thing I really want to see in Episode VIII is BOUNTY HUNTERS! How the hell were they not in Episode 7, and how did I not realize that until now? We need their scum.
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I still don't quite understand what he meant by white slavers, and it's kinda sad the interview as a whole didn't aim to clarify what THAT was about. It's such a weird thing to leave hanging.
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"I wanted to move on" … Which is why I'm still trying to get my ideas put into the new films and come across as bitter over the whole ordeal even after they gave me four BILLION dollars just so they could make a new Star Wars movie.
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I still don't quite understand what he meant by white slavers
It was just a joke about Disney's exploitative business practices.
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@Below:
"I wanted to move on" … Which is why I'm still trying to get my ideas put into the new films and come across as bitter over the whole ordeal even after they gave me four BILLION dollars just so they could make a new Star Wars movie.
Well, he said he wanted to, not that he succeeded in that goal. Being his universe it must be pretty difficult to let go of it.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
Saw the Force Awakens. It was fine.
! I liked Rey(Chick with a staff) character. I think it is the one that worked the best for me. She seems like a decent person without being too perfect. When Finn tells her he lied, she doesn't feel the need to throw a tantrum, but understand why he did it. Her interaction with the characters are ok especially with Han. Plus she gives me one of the best scene of the movie when she flips the side upside down so Flinn can shoot. On the flip side, her control of the force irks me a lot and I think her attachment to BB8 came way to fast. I can understand why one want would call her a Mary Stue.
! Flinn, the stormtrooper, was an interesting concept. I liked the idea of showing how they are human after all, and one of them turning good. Since he explains it is his first battle, I can accept his defection pretty fine. The delivery of the actor was pretty good. However, that is the first movie were I was annoyed by the idea of the funny black sidekick, so any moment when he did something funny was a little cringy.
! BB8. Soccer ball with a robot head. Cool design and makes a cool toy. Made a pretty cool sidekick.
! I-Named-Finn. The pilot. Was a solid character but has not click with me yet especially with him succumbing to the the torture at the start. He is a damn good pilot tho.
! Darth Not-Vader. I like that he is Solo son rather than Luke's. I think it would have been way to repetitive. I don't really like him for now. To much use of that light saber. I am waiting to see how the sequels will build him up. He seems angry at his dad, we don't know why. He has a weird obsession with being as good as Vader, which again I don't know were it comes from. While I understand he could become a great character, in this single movie, They simply did not give me enough to get behind is constant state of anger, his actions, and his motivations.Too much anger for now, but he is probably the one I'm looking the most forward too in development.
! Darth Snow. Cool effect with the hologram and seems reasonable in his evilness. Looking forward to him.
! Hitler(equal political power to Not-Vader). He was an interesting guy as a villain. I found him pretty effective. He proposed a plan to wipe the enemy and did not stall it for ridiculous reason. Seeing 5 planets goes down is a powerful statement and has a good impact as a viewer. Really the effective villain and his speech was really striking as an image to me.
! Solo & Chewi. Effective pair. I consider Chewbacca was the better one as character as sometimes it felt like they were trying to hard to recapture Solo's character. Both still were pretty good as character. Chewi reaction to Han Solo is gold. He cry out for his friend and shoot without hesitation to his muderer. That thing is priceless. I was always surprise by how good of a shooter he was. Has for Solo, while I wasn't totally sold in the scene of his death, I loved that little touch of Solo touching his son's face as a caring father before falling down. The real shame has to be Rey giving a hug to Leia rather than Chewi. It would have made the moment much more powerful both in the movie and for the viewers.
! For the movie itself. I like that the droid are treated in much more humane way, in the approach since they clearly have feeling and that we also exploring the human side of stormtroopers. For a star wars, I'm not sure why, but I feel it was lacking diversity. The treatment of the force is also something that bugs me since one of the thing I liked was that no matter how strong you were in the force, you still needed real training to do something with it. The treatment of Han's relation with Leia is something I love, since we see how they were impacted by the lost of their son despite their love and them still having chemistry.
! The destruction of a planet was to much of a callback. I think Luke we should have seen Luke in VIII( simply see her land on the planet or departing). Han's death is too fast due to how the redemption plot was handled. The farewell is not all that good. R2D2 wake-up going out because of Luke and waking up later was a strange decision for a droid plot.
! Best line: "That's not how the force works"
Best moments: Stopping that beam from the blaster, in mid-air.
! Loved hearing the humming of lightsabers.
! Do we know who was that guy with the missing piece, at the start?
Good movie by himself(7/10). Weird movie for a star wars but still fine. Better than prequels in my opinion(But I should try the machete before saying). -
Dude at the beginning was the Rebel general who outlines the Death Star attack plan in A New Hope.
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Those are two different characters. Lor San Tekka is Max von Sydow's character; Alex McKrindle's character was Jan Dodonna.
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@Below:
"I wanted to move on" … Which is why I'm still trying to get my ideas put into the new films and come across as bitter over the whole ordeal even after they gave me four BILLION dollars just so they could make a new Star Wars movie.
Don't you mean "just so they could make BILLIONS of dollars more with multiple movies, toy lines and Disneyland rides"?
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I kinda want this action figure set for the detail alone. Also so I can yell "Traitor!" all day. http://plasticandplush.com/2015/12/star-wars-the-force-awakens-finn-and-first-order-riot-control-stormtrooper-set.html#.VoNazRCfCIY.facebook
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Baaah! I was hoping they'd give us grumpy riot control storm trooper's name. I guess I'll have to wait until those new star wars cards to see whether they had a name for him or not. For now, I'll dub him Sir Grumpus Mcgee "The most kickass stormtrooper of the franchise"
Random tangent note:
It just occurred to me that since DISNEY now owns Star Wars…I suppose we will probably never see any rendition or variation of "Death Troopers" on screen. Alas, it probably wasn't ever going to get any attention but still...Maybe a TV serie? Pretty pleease? :sad:
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I dont know why everyone praises and overhypes this movie in my opinion this movie sucked
it had good scenes but i am really dissapointed from Characters like Fin, Kylo Ren, Rey and even Han Solo5/10
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I forget who but some YouTube channel pointed out that Captain Phasma would have been significantly more badass if she was the one fighting Finn instead of Grumpy Riot Control Stormtrooper.
But hey, one good thing TFA inarguably did is make stormtroopers intimidating for basically the first time ever on the big screen.
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Baaah! I was hoping they'd give us grumpy riot control storm trooper's name.
Clearly his designation is TR-8RRR.
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I dont know why everyone praises and overhypes this movie in my opinion this movie sucked
it had good scenes but i am really dissapointed from Characters like Fin, Kylo Ren, Rey and even Han Solo5/10
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Want something brain-meltingly idiotic to entertain you? You know there's a tiny minority of internet creeps upset by this movie for very specific…"reasons"? Well those gReAt mInDz have dug deep, like, really deep and uncovered the evil conspiracy behind this Star Wars movie. Behold:
!
Even in the event of this being a parody, keep in mind that there are people put there who genuinely think this way. -
Want something brain-meltingly idiotic to entertain you? You know there's a tiny minority of internet creeps upset by this movie for very specific…"reasons"? Well those gReAt mInDz have dug deep, like, really deep and uncovered the evil conspiracy behind this Star Wars movie. Behold:
! http://i2.wp.com/www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/starwarscuckballCensored2900.png
Even in the event of this being a parody, keep in mind that there are people put there who genuinely think this way.Star Wars as interpreted by people like Kylo Ren.
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dear diary
wrote up theory about recent movie
asked Hux to take look at it
he said he had a few notes and would post finished version for me later
probably shoulda looked at it first -
! In the TFA visual dictionary it states that Lor San Tekka (old guy at the beginning) was a member of the Church of the Force and a seasoned explorer of remote areas of the galaxy. He was also known for uncovering Jedi history that the Empire had tried to erase.
Even in the event of this being a parody, keep in mind that there are people put there who genuinely think this way.
I sure hope it's a parody, but sadly people do think like that. The unedited version was posted on /r/starwars and it's even more vulgar and racist.
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The madness is strong with this one
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This movie just sucked.
8.8/10
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! In the TFA visual dictionary it states that Lor San Tekka (old guy at the beginning) was a member of the Church of the Force and a seasoned explorer of remote areas of the galaxy. He was also known for uncovering Jedi history that the Empire had tried to erase.
I sure hope it's a parody, but sadly people do think like that. The unedited version was posted on /r/starwars and it's even more vulgar and racist.
I can easily guess what was edited out lol.