Chapter 553 "Battle of the Highest" Discussion
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They're in his league; that's all. Just like some other characters outside of the Yonkou are.
What Newgate doesn't have is an equal(for the moment).
It seems that Roger had more than one equal, Garp, Whitebeard and maybe Sengoku. Further I think Rayleigh was equal to Rogers power, too. But in the end we don’t know this for sure. I don’t get why you write as if your opinion is fact.
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It seems that Roger had more than one equal, Garp, Whitebeard and maybe Sengoku. Further I think Rayleigh was equal to Rogers power, too. But in the end we don’t know this for sure. I don’t get why you write as if your opinion is fact.
I'd have to disagree if Garp was his equal and Sengoku it would have been easy to over power him. Let's not forget that the admirals were also around 20 years ago. Then let's factor in the fact that a retired pirate in rayleigh is able to fight at a level that can cause injury even if minor to an Admiral Kizaru and basically hold him off. If impressive and speaks not only to what his power level used to be but what WB and Gol D Roger's was. Now you may point to the flashback when Gol D. say that they fought to the death many times I still don't think that's enough proof and can be take a couple of ways. We also need to factor in how feared WB is and how Gol D basically couldn't be stopped until he got sick.
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It seems that Roger had more than one equal, Garp, Whitebeard and maybe Sengoku. Further I think Rayleigh was equal to Rogers power, too. But in the end we don’t know this for sure. I don’t get why you write as if your opinion is fact.
[history]
As rayleigh said nobody can assume that roger was super strong when he entered the GL. We don't know anything about the fights he had with the marines and other pirates. We don't know how many times he'd lost against others.
Of course he became strong. And in the last months of his pirate career he must have been the strongest.
Now think about WB as someone nearly as strong as roger and strong enough to defeat everyone beside roger. This is the reason croc said that so many silver medallists lost to roger and WB.[/history]Those 2 were in their own league and must have had a lot of fights were it ended with a lot of draws.
Roger trusting garp and saying that they had numerous fights where they fought to death means to me that gar must have also been in Rogers and WBs league.
About sengoku we only know that WB sees him as a legend who knows the sea. That's all. He is really strong since he was an admiral. That's all we know. We can only suppose that sengoku was also in WBs Rogers and garps league (common sense since why would garp be in their league and Sengoku not).Now the difference between someone who is as equal as WB and someone who is in WBs league is that the first one would be able to win against WB whereas the second would give him a lot of trouble but Wb will still be able to win even after being wounded more or les severly…
Which means that the other 3 yonkous are in WBs league and WB is the strongest one of them.
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Blackbeard should make this war more manly.
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Funny thing is that I forgot I started this with Wolfwood.
Well i was gonna jump in, but yknow Zik was saying everything that needed to be said. That and i was somewhat inebriated at the time :p
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[history]
As rayleigh said nobody can assume that roger was super strong when he entered the GL. We don't know anything about the fights he had with the marines and other pirates. We don't know how many times he'd lost against others.
Of course he became strong. And in the last months of his pirate career he must have been the strongest.
Now think about WB as someone nearly as strong as roger and strong enough to defeat everyone beside roger. This is the reason croc said that so many silver medallists lost to roger and WB.[/history]The reason they lost could be because their awesome crew.
Those 2 were in their own league and must have had a lot of fights were it ended with a lot of draws.
Roger trusting garp and saying that they had numerous fights where they fought to death means to me that gar must have also been in Rogers and WBs league.
About sengoku we only know that WB sees him as a legend who knows the sea. That's all. He is really strong since he was an admiral. That's all we know. We can only suppose that sengoku was also in WBs Rogers and garps league (common sense since why would garp be in their league and Sengoku not).Now the difference between someone who is as equal as WB and someone who is in WBs league is that the first one would be able to win against WB whereas the second would give him a lot of trouble but Wb will still be able to win even after being wounded more or les severly…
Which means that the other 3 yonkous are in WBs league and WB is the strongest one of them.
I don’t disagree with you completely. I only see the possible that Whitebeard is equal in fighting power to some characters in duel or at least really near. Only the war can tell us what is true.
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I loved teh chapter but it's going agoninsgly slow. I cna't believe that right now at the most exciting part we have two wait one more week.
But frustrations aside it will be great to se how the fight will continue. Will it be a massive brawl or are they going to go more for a one on one fights. WB's commanders seems to be to the task of fighting an Admiral(and Mihwak) but I wonder if the rest of WB's nakama would be up to fighting the Shichibukai or if Whitebeard will go after them himself?
And of course there are the Pacifistas. We have yet to see a sign of them and they are quite formidable .
But most of all I wonder how Luffy will make his entrance. Knwing him I wouldn't be surprised if it's some ridiculous way like say crash landing on Sengoku's head
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I hope to see some pwngoat screen time in this arc. Im lookingh forward to chopper's cover story also
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]Well mainly what oda got accross to me with the whole id arc was the fact that a pirate is a pirate by any and all estimates they will do what they want regardless of the rules or the powers at be, also the fun loving happy go lucky mugiwara adventures are over for a while and it's time to get down to the serious pirate business, of lawlessness and coup de tas
The fact is even if the wg is considered at the top brass to have some less than honorable princeples their main purpose is still the safety and santity of the op world, such as protecting the villiges from pillage and those women and. CHildren from rape and murder by the type of people luffy just released from prison.
As far as the war goes, I think he will tailor it more towards groups fighting for the lower tier pirates and marines then gradually build up to the 1v1s of the strongger ones. Also there is nothing stopping sengoku from taking aces head at anytime seeing as he's standing right there, him waiting the three hours is just protocol who's to say if the wb pirates start owning the marines he doesn't just take his head anyway?
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]Also there is nothing stopping sengoku from taking aces head at anytime seeing as he's standing right there, him waiting the three hours is just protocol who's to say if the wb pirates start owning the marines he doesn't just take his head anyway?
That's where Luffy comes in .
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]Well mainly what oda got accross to me with the whole id arc was the fact that a pirate is a pirate by any and all estimates they will do what they want regardless of the rules or the powers at be, also the fun loving happy go lucky mugiwara adventures are over for a while and it's time to get down to the serious pirate business, of lawlessness and coup de tas
The fact is even if the wg is considered at the top brass to have some less than honorable princeples their main purpose is still the safety and santity of the op world, such as protecting the villiges from pillage and those women and. CHildren from rape and murder by the type of people luffy just released from prison.
As far as the war goes, I think he will tailor it more towards groups fighting for the lower tier pirates and marines then gradually build up to the 1v1s of the strongger ones. Also there is nothing stopping sengoku from taking aces head at anytime seeing as he's standing right there, him waiting the three hours is just protocol who's to say if the wb pirates start owning the marines he doesn't just take his head anyway?
I guess weither good or bad, a pirate is a pirate.
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Well i was gonna jump in, but yknow Zik was saying everything that needed to be said. That and i was somewhat inebriated at the time :p
Yeah I pretty much kept repeating what I was saying to you so I just said screw it, best let Oda show you rather than me telling you ;p.
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It seems that Roger had more than one equal, Garp, Whitebeard and maybe Sengoku.
Chapter 234:
@stephen's:- Page 159 -
[Strongest Man in the World]
[The Great Pirate "Whitebeard"]
[Edward Newgate]Garp and Sengoku may have been in their league, even the ones closest to those two, but not equals.
Further I think Rayleigh was equal to Rogers power, too. But in the end we don’t know this for sure.
Yeah no.
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God we need a new chapter (I feel bad for Vanessa who I assume is cleaning up a lot of the crap)
Anyway I think Marco and Kizaru's fight will begin, and we'll learn what Marco's df is. We will probably get a few scenes of the VAs vs. NW captains. And hopefully by chapters end Luffy will make landfall at HQ with a cliffhanger (hopefully) of the identity of the gate opener. -
Yeah no.
I disagree. I think that sometime after Roger's death, Rayliegh not only matched his captains former power but he probably surpassed him. However since then he has grown weaker due 2old age.
God we need a new chapter (I feel bad for Vanessa who I assume is cleaning up a lot of the crap)
Yeah, I think so 2. I tried 2make this thread interesting but even as cool and sexy as I am, I still couldn't fully revive it. Though I came close.
Anyway I think Marco and Kizaru's fight will begin, and we'll learn what Marco's df is. We will probably get a few scenes of the VAs vs. NW captains. And hopefully by chapters end Luffy will make landfall at HQ with a cliffhanger (hopefully) of the identity of the gate opener.
I think we might C something from their fight no doubt, and both Jose's and Marco's DF's will B explained, but I don't think that Marco vs Kizaru will B the main focus.
=D -
@GolD.:
I disagree. I think that sometime after Roger's death, Rayliegh not only matched his captains former power but he probably surpassed him. However since then he has grown weaker due 2old age.
Yeah no.
Anyway in a half-assed attempt to talk about the chapter this late. I'm wondering when Kuzan's going to reform and get back into the fight; moreover who exactly he'll be held off by en-route to Newgate.
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lol Kuzan.
Maybe there's a new 4th division commander we don't know about.
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I doubt since it was said that 14 division commanders were amongst the three ships that came with the Moby Dick when they ascended onto the bay area.
Without Thatch and Ace that's how many there would be.
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@GolD.:
I disagree. I think that sometime after Roger's death, Rayliegh not only matched his captains former power but he probably surpassed him. However since then he has grown weaker due 2old age.
Yeah, I think so 2. I tried 2make this thread interesting but even as cool and sexy as I am, I still couldn't fully revive it. Though I came close.
I think we might C something from their fight no doubt, and both Jose's and Marco's DF's will B explained, but I don't think that Marco vs Kizaru will B the main focus.
=DWho are you again?
Oh and I wonder who WB's son is.
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As if forum rep means anything.
Um… I can't imagine who Aokiji would fight. Whitebeard will probably fight Sengoku. But if Aokiji > Sengoku, it'd be more logical on the marine's part to have Aokiji fight Whitebeard.
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@$abZ:
As if forum rep means anything.
Um… I can't imagine who Aokiji would fight. Whitebeard will probably fight Sengoku. But if Aokiji > Sengoku, it'd be more logical on the marine's part to have Aokiji fight Whitebeard.
I see garp vs WB.
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It's a crime that a 15 page chapter of almost all double page spreads has had it's discussion stretched to 103 pgs, anyway I have a feeling that while the VAs fight the NW captains that some of the other division captains will be fighting the other Shichibukai. I kinda want to see how WB's fishman fights in comparison to Jimbei.
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It's a crime that a 15 page chapter of almost all double page spreads has had it's discussion stretched to 103 pgs, anyway I have a feeling that while the VAs fight the NW captains that some of the other division captains will be fighting the other Shichibukai. I kinda want to see how WB's fishman fights in comparison to Jimbei.
Damn, Fishmen never get underwater fights. Aokiji already killed any amazing fishman fight.
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Yeah no.
Anyway in a half-assed attempt to talk about the chapter this late. I'm wondering when Kuzan's going to reform and get back into the fight; moreover who exactly he'll be held off by en-route to Newgate.
It seems like he was just broken apart so it shouldn't logically take him very long at all. With Marco and Jozu already tied up, there are still 4 Shichibukai, 2 admirals, and Sengoku to find opponents for. Did this chapter seem to imply that the other division commanders were going to face off against the lineup of 7 Vice-admirals? There's also Garp, Tsuru, Yamakiji, and John Giant as Vice-admirals who aren't in that lineup.
I feel like one of the following things needs to happen in the next chapter. Either more people from Whitebeard's crew get recognized by name for their strength, Luffy and company finally show up to account for some of the opponents, or a new player joins the mix. As it currently stands, we have about 17 people on the marine side who need noteworthy opponents, and that's not counting people like Smoker, or Sengoku who I've reserved for Whitebeard himself.
An argument can be made for the other commanders and the other captains (Doma and company), but they've all received basically no hype.
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It seems like he was just broken apart so it shouldn't logically take him very long at all. With Marco and Jozu already tied up, there are still 4 Shichibukai, 2 admirals, and Sengoku to find opponents for. Did this chapter seem to imply that the other division commanders were going to face off against the lineup of 7 Vice-admirals? There's also Garp, Tsuru, and Yamakiji as Vice-admirals who aren't in that lineup.
I feel like one of the following things needs to happen in the next chapter. Either more people from Whitebeard's crew get recognized by name for their strength, Luffy and company finally show up to account for some of the opponents, or a new player joins the mix. As it currently stands, we have about 16 people on the marine side who need noteworthy opponents, and that's not counting people like Smoker, or Sengoku who I've reserved for Whitebeard himself.
An argument can be made for the other commanders and the other captains (Doma and company), but they've all received basically no hype.
Smoker is the most underrated marine in one piece history, it's his time to shine!!!!!!
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It seems like he was just broken apart so it shouldn't logically take him very long at all.
Oh I know, it's just that Kuzan is lazy.
With Marco and Jozu already tied up, there are still 4 Shichibukai, 2 admirals, and Sengoku to find opponents for. Did this chapter seem to imply that the other division commanders were going to face off against the lineup of 7 Vice-admirals? There's also Garp, Tsuru, Yamakiji, and John Giant as Vice-admirals who aren't in that lineup.
Probably, but I doubt the division commanders will be limited solely to Vice-Admirals. I don't expect much focus to be given on a lot of these characters, but it's going to essentially be sink or swim with these guys. Either the little focus a character's given will be for the better or he/she is going to be relegated to fodder.
I feel like one of the following things needs to happen in the next chapter. Either more people from Whitebeard's crew get recognized by name for their strength, Luffy and company finally show up to account for some of the opponents, or a new player joins the mix. As it currently stands, we have about 17 people on the marine side who need noteworthy opponents, and that's not counting people like Smoker, or Sengoku who I've reserved for Whitebeard himself.
Smoker for sure is going to do something that draws attention. Especially since he's actually trying to gain position amongst the Marines now so he can chase Luffy into the New World. So whatever it is he ends up doing, whether taking down a big name or even becoming a major reason the Whitebeard Pirates lose), it's at least going to promote him up a rank.
I'm guessing Rear-Admiral would be enough for suficient leeway to head into the second half of the Grand Line in a command position no problem.
An argument can be made for the other commanders and the other captains (Doma and company), but they've all received basically no hype.
Yeah I'm not touching that yet. I don't expect much from them though.
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I guess since the marines have been built up throughout the manga so far, it's time for Oda to bring some big guns of New World into the frame and pair the fighters up. It's a good way to develop further storylines for when the SHs enter the New World.
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Oh I know, it's just that Kuzan is lazy.
A fair point you make.
Probably, but I doubt the division commanders will be limited solely to Vice-Admirals. I don't expect much focus to be given on a lot of these characters, but it's going to essentially be sink or swim with these guys. Either the little focus a character's given will be for the better or he/she is going to be relegated to fodder.
I agree, I expect a lot of this to basically turn into background noise as a way for Oda to explain what these characters are doing during this time. Assuming a 1v1 relationship, 7 vice-admirals minus Marco and Jozu leaves 3 commanders for Oda to name and play with.
Smoker for sure is going to do something that draws attention. Especially since he's actually trying to gain position amongst the Marines now so he can chase Luffy into the New World. So whatever it is he ends up doing, whether taking down a big name or even becoming a major reason the Whitebeard Pirates lose), it's at least going to promote him up a rank.
Again, I agree. I also expect Coby and Helmeppo to do something surprisingly useful, as well.
I'm guessing Rear-Admiral would be enough for suficient leeway to head into the second half of the Grand Line in a command position no problem.
It should be, though I'd like to see him get promoted to at least Vice-Admiral level. After they reach the New World, it should be fairly unrealistic for Smoker to return to Marineford and still be able to chase Luffy.
Yeah I'm not touching that yet. I don't expect much from them though.
Nor do I. I'll throw one other possibility out there. A Shichibukai could betray the WG to even the numbers a bit.
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My only wish for this arc is to see Bogart and the Grand High Moustache Of Them All both fight.
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I just can't wait for the focus to be on Luffy. I am dying to see him bust some heads!!
Don't get me wrong, I love seeing new foes/allies kickin ass but Luffy does it with style IMO.
I can't help but expect some true haki display within the next few chapters…watching the Amazon Lilly arc in anime is getting me hyped for haki again...somethings gotta give!
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I expect a lot of this to basically turn into background noise as a way for Oda to explain what these characters are doing during this time.
Pretty much yeah, simple aesthetics for the important things happening.
I also expect Coby and Helmeppo to do something surprisingly useful, as well.
Yeah, this will likely make major headway for his dream to become Admiral. Especially since way way down the line I expect Sakazuki to lose his position and Coby will become the new "Akainu" of the Marines.
It should be, though I'd like to see him get promoted to at least Vice-Admiral level. After they reach the New World, it should be fairly unrealistic for Smoker to return to Marineford and still be able to chase Luffy.
I don't expect Smoker becoming Vice-Admiral till probably near the end of the comic. He seems pretty much like Luffy's version of what Garp was for Roger.
Plus it's not like he has return to receive his promotion. Not like he did for Commodore right?
Nor do I. I'll throw one other possibility out there. A Shichibukai could betray the WG to even the numbers a bit.
I don't really see any of them betraying the World Government just yet, especially during this current arc.
If it does happen though I'm leaning towards Kuma since right now he pretty much has nothing to lose.
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I don't expect Smoker becoming Vice-Admiral till probably near the end of the comic. He seems pretty much like Luffy's version of what Garp was for Roger.
Plus it's not like he has return to receive his promotion. Not like he did for Commodore right?
He'll have to go get a fancy suit. Oh damn, that would really clash with his character now that I think about it.
I don't really see any of them betraying the World Government just yet, especially during this current arc.
If it does happen though I'm leaning towards Kuma since right now he pretty much has nothing to lose.
During the current arc I could see pretty much any of them betray depending on how everything plays out, but during the next few chapters is quite a bit different. Kuma is a possibility I agree, but I'd also say that DoFlamingo is a possibility (I'm hoping that he has some zany scheme in mind for this war).
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Smoker will kill everyone!!!
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If it does happen though I'm leaning towards Kuma since right now he pretty much has nothing to lose.
I'm betting my money on both Kuma and Boa..
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Hancock isn't going to leave the Shichibukai.
During the current arc I could see pretty much any of them betray depending on how everything plays out, but during the next few chapters is quite a bit different. Kuma is a possibility I agree, but I'd also say that DoFlamingo is a possibility (I'm hoping that he has some zany scheme in mind for this war).
-Mihawk certainly doesn't have any reason to leave.
-Moria I'm sure is done trying to become Pirate King so he's out.
-Hancock won't leave Amazon Lily to be destroyed.
-Doflamingo seems like he's planning for an eventual betrayal sometime after this war so no chance for it to happen now.That just leaves Kuma.
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-Mihawk certainly doesn't have any reason to leave.
-Moria I'm sure is done trying to become Pirate King so he's out.
-Hancock won't leave Amazon Lily to be destroyed.
-Doflamingo seems like he's planning for an eventual betrayal sometime after this war so no chance for it to happen now.That just leaves Kuma.
I don't disagree with your assessment, but Oda can pull some crazy plot twists on us that could give any of them a reason to really. I have the hardest time justifying Hancock. If she betrays then she needs to keep it under the radar.
All I know of Dofla is that he's looking forward to the new era. The new era should start with the end of this war, so I'm not willing to totally discount the possibility.
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It's not like Doflamingo's plans are going to begin right after the war ends though. Symbolically yes, his "new era" will technically start when all this is over but not what actually happens.
Like Roger's "Golden Age of Piracy" symbolically began right when he said those final words of his, but I really doubt the large increase in piracy that represents it happened at that moment.