How should Fansubs be made?

[fdein]

He ate the Rubber Rubber?

[Darkstorm]

@fdein:

He ate the Rubber Rubber?

Rubber Rubber fruit is what Zera is saying. Or Gomu Gomu fruit I suppose. As opposed to Rubber Rubber no mi, or Gomu Gomu no mi.

[brennen.exe]

@Darkstorm:

I assume saying hito-hito instead of human human, or goro-goro instead of rolling thunder, etc.

@Zeratanis:

Actually I think she was referring to the "no mi" part. Really, there is no reason to put that instead of "Fruit".

I'm hoping she is only referring to the "no mi" part.

[fdein]

@Darkstorm:

Rubber Rubber fruit is what Zera is saying. Or Gomu Gomu fruit I suppose. As opposed to Rubber Rubber no mi, or Gomu Gomu no mi.

Oh my bad I read that incorrectly

[Demon Rin]

Proper Translation: Gum Gum Fruit
Acceptable Translation on the Grounds that "Gomu Gomu" is a Proper Noun: Gomu Gomu Fruit
Improper Translation: Gomu Gomu no Mi

[fdein]

My proper would be rubber : /
anyways gone now

[Darkstorm]

@fdein:

My proper would be rubber : /

Indeed. .

[gigatech]

@Demon:

Proper Translation: Gum Gum Fruit

Rubber Fruit sounds a lot better.

[brennen.exe]

@Demon:

Proper Translation: Gum Gum Fruit
Acceptable Translation on the Grounds that "Gomu Gomu" is a Proper Noun: Gomu Gomu Fruit
Improper Translation: Gomu Gomu no Mi

Ah. Ok. Good. I was hoping that was the case. But…you know what a "proper noun" is, right? According to Webster's Dictionary: "a noun that designates a particular being or thing, does not take a limiting modifier, and is usually capitalized in English — called also proper name." There is really no denying that each individual fruit is a proper noun. There is only one of each, after all. It's their name. The same could be said for attack names, but I understand there is a little more room for argument. It is my opinion that attack names should be left in the language intended though, as it is also a name.

[Zkaiser]

NECK SHOT!!!
LOWER BACK!!
CHEEK SHOT!!!

^Proper Translation.

[Darkstorm]

@brennen.exe:

It is my opinion that attack names should be left in the language intended though, as it is also a name.

But then you lose pun meanings and so forth (I.E Zoro).

Or would you have TL notes?

[brennen.exe]

@Darkstorm:

Or would you have TL notes?

Brennen always does (his best to do) thorough translation notes.

Edit: I should point out now that I am referring more to the manga than the anime. I usually only watch the highlights of the anime, so I don't follow it week to week. I watch all the movies though, and I do care about subbing, as I loathe dubs.

[prefix]

I think everything that can be translated should be translated, that way people that have no idea what Stuff like Nakama & Ossan means can altso follow along with the story, same thing with the attack lines really, it doesn't really make any sense for a non japanese speaker or anime newbie when all you see is gomu gomu no muchi or something.

Altso it makes it alot easier to pick up japanese while watching if everything is translated

[Charagon]

@Demon:

Proper Translation: Gum Gum Fruit
Acceptable Translation on the Grounds that "Gomu Gomu" is a Proper Noun: Gomu Gomu Fruit
Improper Translation: Gomu Gomu no Mi

Weren't you just going off about randomly mixing Japanese and English?

Either you translate it into Rubber Rubber Fruit, you ADAPT it into Gum Gum Fruit, or you treat it like a proper noun and leave it untranslated as Gomu Gomu no Mi.

I can't think of a scenario where it would be acceptable to use Gomu Gomu Fruit. Gomu Gomu isn't the proper noun. The whole name is.

[kewl0210]

The thing is, the proper noun part "gomu gomu" is what you would lose connotation with if you translated it. The "Fruit" part, you wouldn't. Which I think is a good system to use. If you leave a lotta stuff untranslated, also, it gets confusing.

[Demon Rin]

@Charagon:

Weren't you just going off about randomly mixing Japanese and English?

Either you translate it into Rubber Rubber Fruit, you ADAPT it into Gum Gum Fruit, or you treat it like a proper noun and leave it untranslated as Gomu Gomu no Mi.

I can't think of a scenario where it would be acceptable to use Gomu Gomu Fruit. Gomu Gomu isn't the proper noun. The whole name is.

Because if you have "Gomu Gomu" anything in the middle of a sentence, it's already mix matched with Japanese and English. The better route would be to at least translate the "No Mi" Part so it's less confusing.

Also, This is something Kaizoku Fansubs does. They've always translated it as "Gomu Gomu Fruit".

If you leave part translated and part not, then People who had been watching for 200 Episodes with Kaizoku would get confused.

[RuNa]

@Charagon:

Weren't you just going off about randomly mixing Japanese and English?

Either you translate it into Rubber Rubber Fruit, you ADAPT it into Gum Gum Fruit, or you treat it like a proper noun and leave it untranslated as Gomu Gomu no Mi.

My Grandma who lived in Pittsburgh most of her life calls a rubber band a "gum band". It's not like it's some weird Japanese word.

Anyways, do whatever you want because there will always be complaining from everyone. I ignore it nowadays because it's almost always a lost cause.

I think you should give it up too, Demon Rin. 90% of your posts here have to do with this. If you don't watch fansubs (because you shouldn't be) then why do you care? Just watch it/read it in Japanese and ignore the rest. There is a fine line between educating someone and forcing them to do it your way. All you have to do is inform them (without coming off ANGRY all the time) and be on your way.

[TealBlueShore]

I know I voted for the "translate everything except attack names (without colorful text)" but I think they should include a side note for the first time an attack is used; that way you know what it means and can understand it whenever they use it later. It's kind of like what I think FUNi's doing with the dub; the first time an attack's used it's in English, then it goes back to whatever the language is supposed to be for all later uses of said attacks.

If this has already been mentioned before, please forgive me. I didn't go back and read the entire thread just now and it's getting late.

[korobka]

@RuNa:

There is a fine line between educating someone and forcing them to do it your way.

Exactly why I hated that "documentary".

I'm not getting into any more debates here, but I just thought I'd mention that for as much as K-F leaves untranslated, it's nothing compared to the Spanish groups, Red Line and Shichibukai. They even leave stuff like Zatsuyou and Umi Ressha.

[Demon Rin]

@RuNa:

My Grandma who lived in Pittsburgh most of her life calls a rubber band a "gum band". It's not like it's some weird Japanese word.

Anyways, do whatever you want because there will always be complaining from everyone. I ignore it nowadays because it's almost always a lost cause.

I think you should give it up too, Demon Rin. 90% of your posts here have to do with this. If you don't watch fansubs (because you shouldn't be) then why do you care? Just watch it/read it in Japanese and ignore the rest. There is a fine line between educating someone and forcing them to do it your way. All you have to do is inform them (without coming off ANGRY all the time) and be on your way.

I'm not the only one who watches the Show, so I get fansubs but I go for softsubs whenever available.
My Significant other and I watch the show (We're caught up now, reading the manga) and I'm getting tired of constantly having to explain what things mean. Just last week I had to explain that "Hebihime" Means "Snake Princess".

@Super-Franky:

Exactly why I hated that "documentary".

I'm not getting into any more debates here, but I just thought I'd mention that for as much as K-F leaves untranslated, it's nothing compared to the Spanish groups, Red Line and Shichibukai. They even leave stuff like Zatsuyou and Umi Ressha.

But… they always say "Red Line" In English... what do they call it, the "Reddo Rain"?

[korobka]

@Demon:

But… they always say "Red Line" In English... what do they call it, the "Reddo Rain"?

I meant that the group in called Red Line.

[RuNa]

@Demon:

Just last week I had to explain that "Hebihime" Means "Snake Princess".

I especially hate this one as well "Hebihime-sama~" >_>

It's not like there is even a pun there, like Osohebi from Mother 3.

Well, try this then. Next time a new term or character dialogue is done incorrectly (and not nit-picking, REALLY done wrong), contact the group and see if they will change it. If not, then oh well

No use complaining about it. Most of the "fanbase" that uses said words only use them because they have already been ingrained in their head.

[Demon Rin]

@RuNa:

I especially hate this one as well "Hebihime-sama~" >_>

It's not like there is even a pun there, like Osohebi from Mother 3.

Well, try this then. Next time a new term or character dialogue is done incorrectly (and not nit-picking, REALLY done wrong), contact the group and see if they will change it. If not, then oh well

No use complaining about it. Most of the "fanbase" that uses said words only use them because they have already been ingrained in their head.

Every time Franky House leaves something untranslated (And I mean REALLY untranslated, they don't even put Translation Notes anymore) I get on their case about it heavily. So much so that I've gotten them to SOMETIMES put TL notes, but not all the time.

It just irks me when people cite translating Things like Gomu Gomu and Nakama for reasons why they don't get FUNi's version of the show. those situations irritate me incredibly.

[Sakonosolo]

To add on about the Spanish groups, I've been reading scans (sorry but I rarely ever watch fansubs so I can't really speak about those) in Spanish so I don't forget what I've learned and it annoys the hell out of me how much they keep untranslated. They keep Kurohige and Shirohide (I have no clue why they use this when it's Shirohige), though I've seen a few used of Barbablanca (Whitebeard in Spanish). They use Mugiwara instead of it's Spanish equivilant which I'm not sure of at the moment. All of the attacks are left in Japanese without even a note, too. I do sort of understand this though since many of those in Spanish sound absolutely rediculous, but they should still translate it (or they could use Blackbeard and Whitebeard). So the next time you complain about the level of untranslated things in English subs and scans remember that you have it better than people who use the Spanish subs and scans.

[Charagon]

@Demon:

Because if you have "Gomu Gomu" anything in the middle of a sentence, it's already mix matched with Japanese and English. The better route would be to at least translate the "No Mi" Part so it's less confusing.

I'm not talking about mixed languages in a sentence, I'm talking about mixed languages in a single phrase. That'd be like calling it a Den Den Bug or something.

@Demon:

Also, This is something Kaizoku Fansubs does. They've always translated it as "Gomu Gomu Fruit".

Honestly, I never noticed. I know I've seen both, but couldn't tell you who does what.

@Demon:

If you leave part translated and part not, then People who had been watching for 200 Episodes with Kaizoku would get confused.

Do you ever have an argument about translation that doesn't assume the people watching the show are completely retarded?

[Tsukento]

It really is odd to hear Luffy say "Gomu Gomu no Mi" with some subs writing it as "Gomu Gomu Fruit", and then hearing Luffy say he's a "Gomu Ningen", with the subs then writing "Rubber Man."

How does one less "Gomu" make it untranslatable or adaptable?

Viz was the one who first went with Gum Gum Fruit, and it does work as gum (NOT the chewing kind) is a form of rubber. So things would be balanced out when Luffy says he ate the Gum Gum Fruit, while also being a Rubber Man.

[brennen.exe]

@Tsukento:

How does one less "Gomu" make it untranslatable or adaptable?

It's not untranslatable, it's just a proper noun. As I have used many a time in example, my name means "scorch" in German. Obviously my name doesn't get translated in the States for being a German word. Why? Because it is being used as a proper noun. Luffy's fruit has a unique name that belongs to it, and only to it. That makes the name of that unique and individual fruit a proper noun. "Rubber human" is not a proper noun, it is a common noun, as it is merely a descriptor of what type of human (person) he is. "Rubber human" does not equate to Luffy, Luffy just happens to be a "rubber human." (Just like a square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares). The fruit isn't rubber, it is the "Gomu Gomu" fruit. That is its name, and that name identifies the unique fruit (thing).

[RuNa]

@brennen.exe:

It's not untranslatable, it's just a proper noun. As I have used many a time in example, my name means "scorch" in German. Obviously my name doesn't get translated in the States for being a German word. Why? Because it is being used as a proper noun. Luffy's fruit has a unique name that belongs to it, and only to it. That makes the name of that unique and individual fruit a proper noun. "Rubber human" is not a proper noun, it is a common noun, as it is merely a descriptor of what type of human (person) he is. "Rubber human" does not equate to Luffy, Luffy just happens to be a "rubber human." (Just like a square is a rectangle, but not all rectangles are squares). The fruit isn't rubber, it is the "Gomu Gomu" fruit. That is its name, and that name identifies the unique fruit (thing).

I don't think it matters that you say it's a proper noun because :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrus_pyrifolia

Calling it Gum Gum is the same as ゴムゴム. Where do you think they got the word from?

[brennen.exe]

@RuNa:

Calling it Gum Gum is the same as ゴムゴム. Where do you think they got the word from?

Where do you think my name came from? Do you not understand how proper nouns work, or why peoples names aren't translated? Karate? Kung-Fu? Hell, better start translating "Nami" to "Wave", eh? It's not like all fruits work the same either. Barabara? Split? How are those words similar in English and Japanese?

[Sakonosolo]

I think he (she?)'s saying that in Japanese it's very common to drop u's so Oda could have very well meant it to be Gom (or Gum) but was prevented from making it obvious because of the limitations of the Japanese language.

[RuNa]

@brennen.exe:

Where do you think my name came from? Do you not understand how proper nouns work, or why peoples names aren't translated? Karate? Kung-Fu? Hell, better start translating "Nami" to "Wave", eh? It's not like all fruits work the same either. Barabara? Split? How are those words similar in English and Japanese?

It's a fruit. How is it proper? Because there is "only one"? How can you prove that? No, I don't know where you got your name but I can answer your other ones:

Karate: hmm…not an English concept or invention. Kung Fu as well.
Nami: Name of a person.

Gomu, HOWEVER, is not a Japanese word or thing. They took the English word and just put the word in Katakana.

The devil fruits have 2 syablle names coming from words (not like I need to tell you this; The way Japanese is developed OBVIOUSLY they need the "u" sound at the end). Would you honestly write Kyandoru for candle for Mr3?

Viz (I believe) handled this issue by just switching the 2 syllable names to one.

You get the point. If you want to call it Gomugomu, Mokumoku, Barabara, etc. You absolutely NEED a translation note regardless (saying the 2 syllables reason and words origin).

**http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B4%E3%83%A0

Not a Japanese word.** Edit: Ok, to make this even more obvious, you say it's a proper noun, right? Why, then, do people not put Romaji names for characters who have OBVIOUS foreign sounding names (coughCodeGeasscough) then?

[brennen.exe]

@Kairouseki:

I think he (she?)'s saying that in Japanese it's very common to drop u's so Oda could have very well meant it to be Gom (or Gum) but was prevented from making it obvious because of the limitations of the Japanese language.

Are you suggesting that of ALL the Devil's Fruits in the series, Oda decided to name only Luffy's in English? Seriously? And coincidentally…no, intentionally used the Japanese kana….? Like a weird red herring or something?

[Sakonosolo]

I'm not saying that's what it is. I was just trying to explain RuNa's argument more clearly. I don't actually believe it myself.

[RuNa]

@brennen.exe:

Are you suggesting that of ALL the Devil's Fruits in the series, Oda decided to name only Luffy's in English? Seriously? And coincidentally…no, intentionally used the Japanese kana….? Like a weird red herring or something?

ドルドルの実
Doru Doru Fruit

キャンドル
Candle

hmm…

or let's see this one

モクモクの実
Moku Moku Fruit

スモーク
Smoke (Sumo-ku)

スモーカー
Smoker

Yep, these are coincidences >_>.

If you went one syllable for the transliterations, Smoke Smoke Fruit and Wick Wick Fruit work just fine. Just include translation notes. The words make sense for people who don't care about the notes and people that want to know can read them.

Let me bring up Pokemon. I know (for any past Gold, ONLY) all of the Japanese names, words, and terms used throughout the series. NOBODY ELSE DOES BECAUSE THEY ONLY FOLLOW THE ENGLISH GAMES, MOVIES, ETC.

If I was translating Pokemon Special as a scan group, I wouldn't use the Japanese names because that's how I read them. Follow my drift?

[Sakonosolo]

Moku is the sound effect for billowing clouds though, which is itself an anagram of the word for cloud, kumo.

[brennen.exe]

@RuNa:

It's a fruit. How is it proper? No, I don't know where you got your name.

From this, I can deduce that not only do you not understand what a proper noun is, but you also do not completely read my posts…as I have already answered both of these and was simply using rhetoric.

@RuNa:

Because there is "only one"? How can you prove that?

That's an easy one:

[hide]@Volume:

Excuse me!! May I pose a serious question to the typically-vulgar SBS?? In Volume 46, Usopp
said that the same power doesn't exist twice. But this doesn't make sense with what you
said in the Volume 45 SBS… If the Gomu Gomu Fruit was in a book of fruits, then Luffy
HAD to have eaten at least the SECOND known example of the fruit! Now, most beautiful
and intelligent Ei-chan, explain it all!
P.N. Takafi
O: Very sharp of you. But I'm cool. I haven't made any mistakes. As a hint, let me rephrase what
Usopp is saying. "The same powers don't exist twice AT THE SAME TIME." How's that? For
more detail, you'll just have to wait for a certain professor to make his appearance in
the story, and explain exactly what the Devil Fruits REALLY are… Eventually.

[/hide]@RuNa:

Karate: hmm…not an English concept or invention. Kung Fu as well. Nami: Name of a person.

Karate means "empty hand", as in you fight with your bare hands. Kung Fu means "hard work". Nami means "wave". These are words that became proper nouns for their specific usage, and are therefore not translated. Of course this isn't a rule, per se, but many countries consider it rude not to do so…so you might as well consider it a rule. Don't translate proper nouns.

@RuNa:

Gomu, HOWEVER, is not a Japanese word or thing. They took the English word and just put the word in Katakana.

Many words…no, most words originate from other languages. Greek, French, Spanish, Latin, etc. Just because the word is transcribed differently in different languages does not mean it isn't a word in that language. Nor does it exclude the word from any form of proper noun rules or usage.

@RuNa:

The devil fruits have 2 syablle names coming from words.

Oh? I thought "barabara" meant split, not bara. I thought "moku" was a sound effect, not a word. But I suppose I am just nitpicking here…

@RuNa:

Viz…

Zolo…

@RuNa:

You absolutely NEED a translation note regardless.

I refer to my first sentence in this post, and then my fourth post in this thread.

@RuNa:

Wikipedia - Not a Japanese word.

I refer to my fourth quote in this post. Also, not the most credible of sources or anything, but here and here.

[RuNa]

@brennen.exe:

From this, I can deduce that not only do you not understand what a proper noun is, but you also do not completely read my posts…as I have already answered both of these and was simply using rhetoric.

Well, first off, I didn't know what you meant because brennen.exe isn't capitalized so I guess I wasn't on the same page as you

Karate means "empty hand", as in you fight with your bare hands. Kung Fu means "hard work".

See about these…quite honestly, they DON'T translate. I could use examples for the reverse case, but I see it won't matter.

Nami means "wave".

Seems speculative to me since her name is written in katakana:
http://eow.alc.co.jp/%e3%83%8a%e3%83%9f/UTF-8/

These are words that became proper nouns for their specific usage, and are therefore not translated. Of course this isn't a rule, per se, but many countries consider it rude not to do so…so you might as well consider it a rule. Don't translate proper nouns.

Proper Nouns have been getting translated forever. While it's not the best thing to do, do you REALLY think everyone can pronounce every word?

Many words…no, most words originate from other languages. Greek, French, Spanish, Latin, etc. Just because the word is transcribed differently in different languages does not mean it isn't a word in that language. Nor does it exclude the word from any form of proper noun rules or usage.

It's a basic noun. Why is it that everyone else (i.e. PROFESSIONAL companies and such) call it the gum gum/rubber rubber fruit? Besides that, I'm pretty sure Shueisha has called it a gum gum fruit.

Oh? I thought "barabara" meant split, not bara. I thought "moku" was a sound effect, not a word. But I suppose I am just nitpicking here…

Kariouseki called me out on Moku (are you going to say that Kariouseki ion the story shouldn't be translated as well?), but 2 syllables:

Ba ra Ba ra
Mo ku Mo ku

If you didn't want to use words you could use something stupid as

Dle Dle fruit. Sounds dumb in English.

Zolo…

Seem to recall Zoro before 4kids got in the picture

I refer to my first sentence in this post, and then my fourth post in this thread.

Well, I am not particularly speaking to you, but I didn't see ANY TN notes for Hancock's missing speech pattern, Jinbe's on-again off-again speech style, why hebihime is used, etc.

I refer to my fourth quote in this post. Also, not the most credible of sources or anything, but here and here.

It's an encyclopedia and I am not seeing what you want me to see because it's saying exactly why I pointed it out. Gum. Plain English.

You know, I don't care if you put Gomu Gomu in your scanslations, but it is completely unprofessional for an official English translation.

[Demon Rin]

@RuNa:

ドルドルの実
Doru Doru Fruit

キャンドル
Candle

hmm…

or let's see this one

モクモクの実
Moku Moku Fruit

スモーク
Smoke (Sumo-ku)

スモーカー
Smoker

Yep, these are coincidences >_>.

@Brennen:
Not to mention the Hormone Hormone Fruit
ホルホルの実
Horu Horu Fruit

Hormone
ホルモン

Bomb Bomb Fruit
ボムボムの実
Bomu Bomu Fruit

Bomb
ボム

Bomb in Japanese
爆弾
Bakudan

Berry Berry Fruit
ベリベリの実
Beri Beri Fruit

Yes, Oda NEVER calls ANY of the Devil Fruits English words, ever.

[Mumbling2]

@Demon:

If you leave part translated and part not, then People who had been watching for 200 Episodes with Kaizoku would get confused.

The only statement I strongly oppose in this thread. Regardless of how fansubs should be made, I don't buy "confusion" as an argument. As a hypothetical example, someone who goes from a fansub that translates "nakama" to one that does not is not going to get confused. Context tends to resolve these situations when you have one untranslated word amongst several translated words.

[Demon Rin]

@Mumbling2:

The only statement I strongly oppose in this thread. Regardless of how fansubs should be made, I don't buy "confusion" as an argument. As a hypothetical example, someone who goes from a fansub that translates "nakama" to one that does not is not going to get confused. Context tends to resolve these situations when you have one untranslated word amongst several translated words.

For some people, that's enough to turn them off of continuing the series.

I'm just mostly tired of people who seem to be under the impression Nakama means "More than" Crew mate or Companion, when it doesn't.

[fdein]

Let's all be great nakama and agree with something. Then we can be special.

[gigatech]

@Demon:

For some people, that's enough to turn them off of continuing the series.

Why would fansubbers cater to people who start watching a series from the middle rather than at the beginning?

[lelandlancaster]

@gigatech:

Why would fansubbers cater to people who start watching a series from the middle rather than at the beginning?

Why not? Making the episodes more accessible to newcomers gives them a better incentive to go back to the beginning after enjoying an episode in the middle.

[Sakonosolo]

@RuNa:

Kariouseki called me out on Moku (are you going to say that Kariouseki ion the story shouldn't be translated as well?)…

I'm not sure if you're talking to me or not but I'm going to answer. I do think that kairouseki should be translated in the story. There isn't really a good English translation for it considering: kai-sea, rou-watchtower or something like that, seki-stone; Sea Tower Stone doesn't really make very much sense but it could easily just be translated as Sea Stone which is what should happen.

[Mumbling2]

@Demon:

For some people, that's enough to turn them off of continuing the series.

I'm just mostly tired of people who seem to be under the impression Nakama means "More than" Crew mate or Companion, when it doesn't.

I doubt your first sentence, but I can't honestly say I am speaking for anyone other than myself. If you can give me some examples of people actually not watching an anime because of that then I might reconsider.

[brennen.exe]

Wrote this response in portions. So…yeah. Anyway, I like talking about this stuff because I always end up learning something from it.

[hide]@RuNa:

See about these…quite honestly, they DON'T translate. I could use examples for the reverse case, but I see it won't matter.

No, they do translate. I just translated them. They don't get translated for being proper nouns. I'm not sure where I am losing you on this…

@RuNa:

Seems speculative to me since her name is written in katakana: ALC

Her name isn't a real name…that's the whole point. Verbs, nouns, etc. get used as names all the time. I know a girl named Brooklyn. My wife wants to name our daughter London. Those are both places...nouns. My name is a German verb. Names are created from words and definitions at some point in time, and from there get used more and more and become so common we forget where they originated. That's just how things happen. The point is that, while a verb or noun or whatever, when used as a proper noun you do not translate it. At least, as a rule of thumb.

@RuNa:

Proper Nouns have been getting translated forever. While it's not the best thing to do, do you REALLY think everyone can pronounce every word?

No, they haven't. They have been getting transliterated and transcribed. I assume you know the difference between the three. I won't deny that SOME proper nouns get translated. As I said, it isn't a rule, just a common practice for obvious reasons. And yes, I do think everyone can, or should be able to, pronounce a transliterated or transcribed word.

@RuNa:

It's a basic noun. Why is it that everyone else (i.e. PROFESSIONAL companies and such) call it the gum gum/rubber rubber fruit? Besides that, I'm pretty sure Shueisha has called it a gum gum fruit.

I'm a professional in a different field. I know hundreds of "professionals" in the same line of work as myself who don't do things correct all the time, myself included. The biggest problem with professionals, is that when what they do becomes work, they just do the fastest work they can that will keep their job. Not everyone does, no, but most. That's why I prefer Stephen's translation. He's a professional translator who has a passion for the series, so he puts time and effort into it. Surprise, surprise, he identifies it as a proper noun.

I will, however, admit again that none of these are rules. There isn't a strict rule for this, and it is up to the translator's best judgment to choose what should be translated, what should be transliterated, what should be transcribed, and what should be trans-localized. All the research I have done on these subjects for varying languages have pretty much the same conclusion, that there isn't a definitive rule or practice for this. There are languages and countries that think translating proper nouns (read: names) is rude, so typically the names get transliterated or transcribed. That, among other things, is where new words originate from. Gomu might come from the English word, gum, but it was still transcribed into Japanese and (as far as I know) is the (or a) word for rubber in Japan. In fact, "gum" didn't even originate from the English language.

@RuNa:

Kariouseki called me out on Moku (are you going to say that Kariouseki ion the story shouldn't be translated as well?), but 2 syllables: Ba ra Ba ra, Mo ku Mo ku If you didn't want to use words you could use something stupid as Dle Dle fruit. Sounds dumb in English.

I'm not even sure what your point is here. Oda uses Japanese words, sounds, and puns for all of the Devil's Fruits names. So what if they have two syllables? So what if a few of the words sound like or originated from the English language? How they are being used is the point here. Again, at this point it comes down to the translators best judgment as there is no "professional" or defined rule. At least, none that I have ever come across. And no, kariouseki or however you spell it is a common noun, and would get translated. Just like Devil's Fruit.

@RuNa:

Seem to recall Zoro before 4kids got in the picture.

I'm just saying that Viz shouldn't be an authority. They have tons of mistakes, Zoro being the most popular. This just goes to show that so-called "professionals" can make mistakes too.

@RuNa:

Well, I am not particularly speaking to you, but I didn't see ANY TN notes for Hancock's missing speech pattern, Jinbe's on-again off-again speech style, why hebihime is used, etc.

Oh, I know, and I totally agree with you on this subject. They should have translation notes. Everything that can be translated or trans-localized should be, with proper nouns being transcribed or transliterated so we can read it. I mean, if something is has name, then we identify it by that name and not by what that name means in a given language.

@RuNa:

It's an encyclopedia and I am not seeing what you want me to see because it's saying exactly why I pointed it out. Gum. Plain English.

I'm pointing out that both websites have it as a Japanese word that has a translation in their dictionary. Rubber, gum, etc. I was merely countering your point that they weren't Japanese words. If they weren't Japanese words they wouldn't translate on a Japanese to English translation site. They wouldn't show up in my Japanese to English dictionary. Again, they might originate from another language, but as I have said before, most words do. Some English words come from Spanish and sound almost identical to each other, and yet they are still separated into an English word and Spanish word based on spelling and accents.

@RuNa:

You know, I don't care if you put Gomu Gomu in your scanlations, but it is completely unprofessional for an official English translation.

Oh, I do. And no….it isn't.

@Demon:

Yes, Oda NEVER calls ANY of the Devil Fruits English words, ever.

I never said he doesn't. I really don't know the etymology behind all the words used. All I know is that they are all written in Japanese, and are either words, sounds, or puns. Because of his naming code (two-syllables from kana), he is fairly limited on his naming scheme. I do not doubt that some English-adopted words were chosen for being transcriptions (and thus sounded out into kana). I do not think Oda transcribed any English words into Japanese for the first time and then used them in his original series, however. Maybe that is so for a given case or two, who knows? Even if it is, all I would do is add that info to a translation note. I would still leave it in its transcribed form though. (Gomu, in this case).[/hide]

[Zkaiser]

I never knew so many people were this bad at proper nouns.

[Puto]

@RuNa:

**http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82%B4%E3%83%A0

Not a Japanese word.** Edit: Ok, to make this even more obvious, you say it's a proper noun, right? Why, then, do people not put Romaji names for characters who have OBVIOUS foreign sounding names (coughCodeGeasscough) then?

This. The fruit should be called the Gum Gum Fruit for the exact same reason why we don't call Vegeta in DBZ "Bejiita", we don't call Trunks "Torankusu", and we don't call Piccolo "Pikkoro". If you want to go that route, you might as well start spelling Luffy's name as "Monki D. Rufi", the Grand Line as the "Gurando Rainu" and what the hell not.

And yes, some fansubbers of other shows actually went to that kind of extremes. Example:

They're English words that happen to be pronounced differently in the show because the Japanese alphabet is uncapable of expressing the original pronounciation.

[RuNa]

All I have left in response, brennen.exe, is this:

1:When I said they "don't translate" I am not talking about in the literal sense, I am saying they don't make any sense/sound weird

2: Going on your with your Proper Nouns talk AND translation talk:

Why do you translate or write in English:

Kurohige -> Blackbeard
Shirohige -> Whitebeard
Haguwaru D. Sauro -> Jaguar D. Saul
Monburan Kuriketto -> Montblanc Cricket
etc.

Seems to me like you do a lot of translating of proper nouns (and transliterating) anyways. Why do you have so much opposition to gum gum fruit? Is it because it sounds weird to you because honestly, if that is the case, just say it. It won't make me angry but do you really need to hear "Gomu Gomu Fruit" in a dub anime?

Edit: Oh! And here's another interesting one.

Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru. In an English version, these should be Red Dog, Blue Pheasant, and Yellow Monkey. These are not names. What do you think should be done with these? Sakazaki, Kuzan, and Borsalino are their names. This can be debatable, though, but it's not that bad. I don't think they sound so weird anyways (with the whole Momotarou references going on). The only "title" I use is Shichibukai. It comes off as sounding redundant in English when used more than once in a single scene.

Edit 2: Nevermind, I found away around that. Just have characters call them "one of the 7".

[Demon Rin]

@RuNa:

All I have left in response, brennen.exe, is this:

1:When I said they "don't translate" I am not talking about in the literal sense, I am saying they don't make any sense/sound weird

2: Going on your with your Proper Nouns talk AND translation talk:

Why do you translate or write in English:

Kurohige -> Blackbeard
Shirohige -> Whitebeard
Haguwaru D. Sauro -> Jaguar D. Saul
Monburan Kuriketto -> Montblanc Cricket
etc.

Seems to me like you do a lot of translating of proper nouns (and transliterating) anyways. Why do you have so much opposition to gum gum fruit? Is it because it sounds weird to you because honestly, if that is the case, just say it. It won't make me angry but do you really need to hear "Gomu Gomu Fruit" in a dub anime?

Edit: Oh! And here's another interesting one.

Akainu, Aokiji, Kizaru. In an English version, these should be Red Dog, Blue Pheasant, and Yellow Monkey. These are not names. What do you think should be done with these? Sakazaki, Kuzan, and Borsalino are their names. This can be debatable, though, but it's not that bad. I don't think they sound so weird anyways (with the whole Momotarou references going on). The only "title" I use is Shichibukai. It comes off as sounding redundant in English when used more than once in a single scene.

Edit 2: Nevermind, I found away around that. Just have characters call them "one of the 7".

And what's More. Why is "Shichibukai" or "Tenryuubito" Left in Japanese.
But Juuichinin no Choushinsei or simply the 11 Choushinsei are left in Japanese?
(The 11 Supernovas)

Because the fansubbers think "Supernova" already sounds cool enough, there is no need to leave it in Japanese.