Shanks told him that he met someone like gold roger in eastblue and Rayleigh showed personal interest in luffy by saying to him he wanted to meet him.
Ya… so? I'm missing your point.
I think it was a mistranslation.
Here a quote of stephens one:
Ah, the ol' mistranslation problem. Annoying. But still, like i said, her lack of commentary doesn't really have to mean anything concrete in my opinion.
@Dan:
Ya… so? I'm missing your point.
You said rayleigh wouldn't expect luffy to be an impressive person.
I said that shanks told to rayleigh that he met someone that is like gold roger (luffy). And rayleigh said himself to luffy that he wanted to talk with him (in the auction house). So to me rayleigh knows that luffy is an impressive/promising /talented rookie.
You said rayleigh wouldn't expect luffy to be an impressive person.
I said that shanks told to rayleigh that he met someone that is like gold roger (luffy). And rayleigh said himself to luffy that he wanted to talk with him (in the auction house). So to me rayleigh knows that luffy is an impressive/promising /talented rookie.
No no no, what i said, or meant to say, was that Ray WOULD be expecting Luffy to be an impressive person and thus detecting a little bit of Haki would not exactly be breaking news to him. Sorry for the confusion.
And remember, i'm not trying to tell you the way it is, i'm just trying to show that there are other plausible situations outside of BB's comments on Luffy's "haki" actually being comments on his drive, confidence and ambition or whatever. All of those are basically exactly the same now as they were in Jaya, and it just makes no sense to me for BB to be commenting on them. Especially when the word he uses has this other extremely important meaning.
I think the way Oda's gonna develop Haki for Luffy is that he's gonna learn to use it through combat experience. One of these days, he's gonna fight one of 'em Logias again and he's gonna be like "shit, why'm I so powerless against them??? HIT DAMIT HIT!" and BAM one of his hits land. Logia goes omfg wtf. Luffy goes omg I hit 0.o sweet!
And why's this thread still alive? Haki is not a technique. Haki's the nen (hunterxhunter, for those who don't know) of One Piece. Nuff said.
Yup, i see it going down something like that was well. Especially the developing his Haki through combat part, which i think he could have been doing on some level all along, hence BB's comment.
@Dan:
No no no, what i said, or meant to say, was that Ray WOULD be expecting Luffy to be an impressive person and thus detecting a little bit of Haki would not exactly be breaking news to him. Sorry for the confusion.
No problem. I also didn't read very well.
So we have to wait for BBs show to continue this talk 
Whatever it's translated as, it HAS to be a synonym for "Ambition".
Forget any and all theories about it and look at the bare-bone facts.
1: Whatever this is, Oda called it the Japanese word for "Ambition".
2: Ambition is ones Drive to achieve their Goals.
3: Luffy has the "Ambition of a King" (Haoushoku Haki to those of you unfortunate enough to read Franky House's Manga scans)
4: Luffy's Goal is to become Pirate King.
There is NO WAY this is coincidence. Oda called it the Japanese word for "Ambition" for a REASON!
No matter what you translate it as, it needs to be a Synonym for Ambition.
Also, Due to this little rather important bit of information (Luffy, King Ambition, Pirate King, etc) It N-E-E-D-S to be translated. There is absolutely NO REASON NOT TO!!
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Thank you, please do not sue or flame her over this statement.
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Considering that there are indications that haki is a hereditary ability it could just be that Teach can't do it.
It's more likely if he knows what it is, he simply was fated with no talent in any of the areas of application. Still, given his usage of the word (twice), and the technique's name, I think Oda is setting up some sort of ironic 'fate' for Blackbeard. Where, had he known of the ability, he might have been able to simply learn to use that and bypassed the whole issue of his lacking the ability. Then again, it could be that he has no talent or knack for it, and therefore sought out an ability that gives him what he wanted and more.
True. It's just another assumption I'm making because if Mantra is tied to Haki then they most likely have the same roots and Mantra was hereditary.
I think if you reword that a little bit it would work better. It seems to me that everyone is born with the ability to use – I will just go with Ambition for now -- Ambition, but at the same time it has to be learned and everyone has different affinities with it. All of the CP9 had varying levels of tekkai, all the upper yard priests varying levels of Mantra, Sandersonia and Marigold certainly showed different abilities, Hancock and Luffy clearly have a different "type", and so on and so forth. While all or most of these techniques are likely accessible to everyone, the natural compatibility for them cannot be learned. Aisa would be an example of someone who's natural aptitude is so strong that she was able to use it from birth, without any training.
@Dan:
Brennen, if i'm reading you right, you seem to have the idea that when BB used the term haki in ID, you presume he wasn't referring to a technique? What makes you come to that conclusion?
Well, I explained why I believe so in one of my posts since then, but basically because of the way he used it and the way it has been identified. Oda doesn't leave us to assume Luffy has used it dozens of times without any of us knowing, and he hasn't hinted at Luffy having a leak of some sort. When Oda wants Luffy to use it, he makes it obvious. Therefore, Luffy has never used it in front of Blackbeard. Furthermore, Luffy has been emotional dozens of times around people who can use the ability, and yet noone has made a comment until Amazon Lily? How come when Luffy was emotional dozens of times on Amazon Lily nobody took notice until he actually used it? The simple answer would be that it isn't something you can see or naturally sense, but something that, when used, can be felt or identified. It goes without say that from there, of course an island of people who know all the ins and outs of the ability can identify it immediately when it is used. So, again, despite Blacky's usage of the word having no contextual significance were he referring to the ability, it simply wouldn't add up given…a good many things. Plus, that fate thing needs to bite him in the ass so to speak eventually.
Whatever it's translated as, it HAS to be a synonym for "Ambition". Also, Due to this little rather important bit of information (Luffy, King Ambition, Pirate King, etc) It N-E-E-D-S to be translated. There is absolutely NO REASON NOT TO!!
Well, assuming you read the reason that I bumped the thread, the whole point is to discuss a word that would keep the play on words intact. But, the more I think about it the more I think the word shouldn't just be synonymous, it should be the same for all uses. If the Japanese are getting confused with its use, not knowing when he (Oda) means 'ambitious' and when he means "Ambition", then we should be equally confused (to an extent). So perhaps "Ambition" is the best choice, and things like "power of" and such would help in certain cases.
PS: Do you still think that your ambitions = your "Ambition"? IE: Luffy wants to be Pirate King therefore "King's Ambition"?
Also, Due to this little rather important bit of information (Luffy, King Ambition, Pirate King, etc) It N-E-E-D-S to be translated. There is absolutely NO REASON NOT TO!!
This is a lot like "nakama" in a way. Sometimes people just prefer words that are left in the original Japanese because they hold more meaning that way. The general fanbase prefers that words like "haki" and "nakama" be left untranslated. The customer is always right, so why change them?
a question.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/544/08/
barbanera(blackbeard in my own mother language sorry) said "haki"
bad translation?
a question.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/544/08/
barbanera(blackbeard in my own mother language sorry) said "haki"
bad translation?
That's what we're not sure about. I think he meant the literal ambition not the mysterious power since it wasn't involved in that scene.
i want to know if luffy will transform when he learns haki so we know when he's using it… and if he does what would it look like
This is a lot like "nakama" in a way. Sometimes people just prefer words that are left in the original Japanese because they hold more meaning that way. The general fanbase prefers that words like "haki" and "nakama" be left untranslated. The customer is always right, so why change them?
I don't see how nakama holds more meaning than friend… "why change them" because japanese and english are different. Only native japanese words should be left untranslated. Like karate.
That's what we're not sure about. I think he meant the literal ambition not the mysterious power since it wasn't involved in that scene.
they are 2 different kanji,i heard.did Oda use the same kanji he uses for Haki?
for exemple when he describes hannybal(ambitious man),he uses a different kanji
they are 2 different kanji,i heard.did Oda use the same kanji he uses for Haki?
for exemple when he describes hannybal(ambitious man),he uses a different kanji
Ok we're talking about arouge right?
希望 (Urouge) kibou
覇気 haki
Different kanji. Kibou means hope.
I translate urouge line as "I've been beaten up quite a bit…. okay, it's time to find out if there is still hope" "It's about time I start my counter attack"
Ok we're talking about arouge right?
希望 (Urouge) kibou
覇気 haki
wrong…......please read again...but interesting,thank u
wrong…......please read again...but interesting,thank u
It's not urouge your talking about, then who?:sad:
It's not urouge your talking about, then who?:sad:
i mentioned the chapter 544
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/544/08/
is blackbeard using the kanji for haki?
then i mentioned the chapter where Hannybal is introduced
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/526/04/
ambitious man
same kanji?
i mentioned the chapter 544
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/544/08/
is blackbeard using the kanji for haki?then i mentioned the chapter where Hannybal is introduced
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/526/04/
ambitious mansame kanji?
野心 Yashin. Ambition. Hannybal
覇気 Haki. Ambition. Blackbeard
Same meaning, different kanji.
Haki has the kanji for energy/ spirit /mood in it were as yashin doesn't.
野心 Yashin. Ambition. Hannybal
覇気 Haki. Ambition. Blackbeard
Same meaning, different kanji.
thank u.
so i think haki should not be translated,in opposition to the less spiritual yashin
thank u.
so i think haki should not be translated,in opposition to the less spiritual yashin
What about the equally spiritual use of kibou?
And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.
@dirt:
What about the equally spiritual use of kibou?
true,but kibou does not have any synonym
And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.
saying his ambition or will power is strong sounds stupid (well in some cases no but when it's a form of energy yes) i like reading them saying haki better anyways it just sounds lame the other way
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saying his ambition or will power is strong sounds stupid (well in some cases no but when it's a form of energy yes) i like reading them saying haki better anyways it just sounds lame the other way
good point. lol imagine if the DBZ dub translated Ki into spirit.
Could we use "presents" for haki ?
Presence is alright?
@dirt:
but it's spiritual
but its not translated with ambition.haki and yashin are both translated with ambition
but listen, everybody, Japanese is spiritual
SPIRITUAL
And when this manga closes out, and Luffy's arm stretches back to deliver that last punch, I wanna feel the crunch of the dream coming true.
Eh due to the number of additional meaning that Oda has added to the word, and the fact that we lack a lot of information on haki, I'll just stick to calling it haki.
@dirt:
but listen, everybody, Japanese is spiritual
SPIRITUAL
What? No one ever tells me these things.
Come back Nakama, all is forgiven.
This is a lot like "nakama" in a way. Sometimes people just prefer words that are left in the original Japanese because they hold more meaning that way. The general fanbase prefers that words like "haki" and "nakama" be left untranslated. The customer is always right, so why change them?
…...........
Even when I hire a lawyer to give out disclaimers people still read my posts however they want to...
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Eh due to the number of additional meaning that Oda has added to the word, and the fact that we lack a lot of information on haki, I'll just stick to calling it haki.
I'd call haki Willforce. It's a word made up of two, and it conveys the meaning of the force of someone's will manifesting or acting upon another, as opposed to willpower which is a word in itself and only conveys the will part.
It's also easy to remember and sounds kinda nice.
A king's willforce does convey the "force of will" without having to seperate it into such a long and uncomfortable name, even though the correct way to say it might be he has a king's force of will.
Also a force always acts upon something so it also has the added bonus of being more relatable towards an actual worldly manifestation of one's own will, whilst will power not only is a common term that does not carry this across, but also a "power" can be latent or refer to a talent or potential, and does not express that "acting upon something" aspect of haki, as in an actual physical or spiritual force.
What? No one ever tells me these things.
Come back Nakama, all is forgiven.
Now I'm no weeabo but I still think nakama should be left alone because I thought it implies a more complex meaning than just friend or crewmate but non-romantically, kinda like best friend but in Luffy's case he'd have more than one.
Now I'm no weeabo but I still think nakama should be left alone because I thought it implies a more complex meaning than just friend or crewmate but non-romantically, kinda like best friend but in Luffy's case he'd have more than one.
Then you're wrong. It's a catch all word for a few things, but those are best translated on a case to case basis.
Nakama = Trustworthy friend + Comrade?
Sounds kinda like that to me.
Then you're wrong.
Well I'm sure 99% people wouldn't risk their life for just a friend maybe a best friend but yeah in other series nakama is just friend but in OP it's clear that Oda implies a closeness that is more than that non-romantically of course.
Well I'm sure 99% people wouldn't risk their life for just a friend maybe a best friend but yeah in other series nakama is just friend but in OP it's clear that Oda implies a closeness that is more than that non-romantically of course.
I don't think you "get" One Piece.
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I don't think you "get" One Piece.
What the fact that 99%of people aren't Luffy and that he'd do much more for a friend? I get that. My thing is that the people translating it aren't Luffy and the way he acts for a nakama should be looked at differently than just it's denotation and more of the connotation seen through his actions.
These always degenerate into Nakama Debates, I just want it on the record I didn't start the talking about Nakama this time…
Look, Nakama means crewmate.
The literal translation would be "Group/ Person in A Group". "Group" being plural when Luffy says "Those guys are my Nakama" and "Person in my group" being the singular IE "Usopp is my Nakama". This is a Pirate Manga, so people in a Group would be your "Crew/Crewmates".
The word doesn't hold special meaning, Kaizoku GAVE it special meaning by leaving it untranslated and saying it meant "so much more" in their big translation note.
The reason the Straw Hats have special bonds isn't because they use this special word, it's the things they've been through together, the hardships and their collective goals.
The best way to put this is... well, I'm gonna use the Lethal Weapon Movies.
In Lethal Weapon 1, Danny Glover's Character Police Captain Roger Murtaugh get's a new "Partner", Mel Gibson's Martin Riggs. In the beginning, he HATES his new partner, but he's still referred to as his "Partner". By the end of the movie, they're best friends, but he never stops calling him "Partner".
By the 4th Movie, in the end when Roger saves him, he's shouting "I've got your Partner!" in a really important scene.
Now, are these two such good friends because they always used the word "Partner"? No, heck no, that's not it at ALL, they just became such amazing friends over the course of the movie(s).
Same goes with Nakama. It's not the word, it's the characters and their sitaution with one another. Because if Nakama had this special meaning, it would ONLY be used during important scenes, and there wouldn't have been a "Davy Back Fight" where you can literally be FORCED to become someone's "Nakama".
If you can be forced into it, it's not some special bond.
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These always degenerate into Nakama Debates, I just want it on the record I didn't start the talking about Nakama this time…
Look, Nakama means crewmate.
The literal translation would be "Group/ Person in A Group". "Group" being plural when Luffy says "Those guys are my Nakama" and "Person in my group" being the singular IE "Usopp is my Nakama". This is a Pirate Manga, so people in a Group would be your "Crew/Crewmates".
The word doesn't hold special meaning, Kaizoku GAVE it special meaning by leaving it untranslated and saying it meant "so much more" in their big translation note.
The reason the Straw Hats have special bonds isn't because they use this special word, it's the things they've been through together, the hardships and their collective goals.The best way to put this is... well, I'm gonna use the Lethal Weapon Movies.
In Lethal Weapon 1, Danny Glover's Character Police Captain Roger Murtaugh get's a new "Partner", Mel Gibson's Martin Riggs. In the beginning, he HATES his new partner, but he's still referred to as his "Partner". By the end of the movie, they're best friends, but he never stops calling him "Partner".
By the 4th Movie, in the end when Roger saves him, he's shouting "I've got your Partner!" in a really important scene.
Now, are these two such good friends because they always used the word "Partner"? No, heck no, that's not it at ALL, they just became such amazing friends over the course of the movie(s).Same goes with Nakama. It's not the word, it's the characters and their sitaution with one another. Because if Nakama had this special meaning, it would ONLY be used during important scenes, and there wouldn't have been a "Davy Back Fight" where you can literally be FORCED to become someone's "Nakama".
If you can be forced into it, it's not some special bond.
Gotcha. I'll never need clarification again.
What do you think of Willforce insted of Willpower? (for Haki I mean)
Nakama = Trustworthy friend + Comrade?
Sounds kinda like that to me.
Is this your opinion or just a random statement? :ninja:
The word "nakama" is just a general purpose word.
It's used frequently in manga/anime series. Why is One Piece so different!
Oh wait! This is the 'haki' thread! LOLOL! Deja vu anyone!
Luffy has the ultimate kingbition willforce!
I accidently caused all of this nakama stuff, my apologies (my edit note clarified that I disagree).
Is this your opinion or just a random statement? :ninja:
The word "nakama" is just a general purpose word.
It's used frequently in manga/anime series. Why is One Piece so different!
It wasn't an opinion but a notion. I see now it's more like partner/teammate/crewmate/any other person that constitutes a group of any kind with you reference.
UsoppSpell!
On the eve of spoilerificaiton, you will wait until you remember it's break week.
Luffy has the ultimate kingbition willforce!
Ahhh, so you have devolved to mockery!
Mind you, I still like it a lot better than any other definition, and willpower alone doesn't cut it, might as well make a word for it that sounds western approved.
UsoppSpell!
On the eve of spoilerificaiton, you will wait until you remember it's break week.
Actually, I came up with kingbition earlier today and it's my new favorite word. I was just looking for an excuse to use it.
It wasn't an opinion but a notion. I see now it's more like partner/teammate/crewmate/any other person that constitutes a group of any kind with you reference.
Ah ok. This is the idea. I've seen the word 'nakama' used to describe two thieves who were partners in an episode of Detective Conan.
Ahhh, so you have devolved to mockery!
Mind you, I still like it a lot better than any other definition, and willpower alone doesn't cut it, might as well make a word for it that sounds western approved.
You need the Ambition to not double post. It's the "Edit Aspect".
Actually, I came up with kingbition earlier today and it's my new favorite word. I was just looking for an excuse to use it.
Lol. 'Kay then.
I was just about to edit my post to "et tu, Urouge?".
Kingbition sounds like a joke word though, whilst willforce sounds more like a lame merchandising oriented word. (star wars anyone?) Still is my fave so far.
@Darkstorm: But I don't have kingbition! I wanted to quote with reference and it takes too long to write it down in edit. Lazy me.
These always degenerate into Nakama Debates, I just want it on the record I didn't start the talking about Nakama this time…
Look, Nakama means crewmate.
The literal translation would be "Group/ Person in A Group". "Group" being plural when Luffy says "Those guys are my Nakama" and "Person in my group" being the singular IE "Usopp is my Nakama". This is a Pirate Manga, so people in a Group would be your "Crew/Crewmates".
The word doesn't hold special meaning, Kaizoku GAVE it special meaning by leaving it untranslated and saying it meant "so much more" in their big translation note.
The reason the Straw Hats have special bonds isn't because they use this special word, it's the things they've been through together, the hardships and their collective goals.The best way to put this is... well, I'm gonna use the Lethal Weapon Movies.
In Lethal Weapon 1, Danny Glover's Character Police Captain Roger Murtaugh get's a new "Partner", Mel Gibson's Martin Riggs. In the beginning, he HATES his new partner, but he's still referred to as his "Partner". By the end of the movie, they're best friends, but he never stops calling him "Partner".
By the 4th Movie, in the end when Roger saves him, he's shouting "I've got your Partner!" in a really important scene.
Now, are these two such good friends because they always used the word "Partner"? No, heck no, that's not it at ALL, they just became such amazing friends over the course of the movie(s).Same goes with Nakama. It's not the word, it's the characters and their sitaution with one another. Because if Nakama had this special meaning, it would ONLY be used during important scenes, and there wouldn't have been a "Davy Back Fight" where you can literally be FORCED to become someone's "Nakama".
If you can be forced into it, it's not some special bond.
This is the last I'll say on it since it's off topic but again I know that nakama means crewmate/friend.
However I'm just saying that if we were to compare how Luffy would describe the word nakama it wouldn't exactly match up to how the average person would define a friend even though it technically means the same and due to lack of a better word Luffy uses it as 'friend'. Now I'm not saying it shouldn't be translated just that there's nothing wrong with not translating it, a translator could just as easily get the full meaning across by using an asterix then use a TL note with the real meaning and just a short description of Luffy's abstract view of it.
Any person of basic intelligence once told what it means once would see that it has it's own abstract meaning when it comes to Luffy and his crew in OP.
