You just voided your own argument.
sigh; No, I didn't. Rather than focusing on how to debunk what I say, just try to understand this: analogies aren't intended to be exactly identical cases, they are meant to get you into the right frame of mind in order to understand an inferred similarity or concept. That's what I have been doing with Karate. Whether or not something is a preordained ability that is inborn, or something that can only be obtained through training, both (in this case) are fighting styles you need to learn to use and control before they are useful. I can break things down again: 'muscle is to Karate is to Palm Heel Fist' as 'willpower is to Haki is to imbuing and arrow'. You use Haki to imbue and arrow, you use Karate to do Palm Heel Fist. You need willpower to use Haki, and you need muscle to use Karate. Please don't argue semantics with me on this, if you don't like a word I used, use common sense and swap it with a word that will make you understand what I am saying. IE: muscle = strength; willpower = aura. And when I say aura, I am referring to the word on a more universal aspect, not a shonen "power level" aspect.
ACTUALLY, Mantra IS translated. Oda got on top of that and Put "Mantra" in Katakana next to it. Mantra is NOT a Japanese term either.
Really? Hmm, looking into it you are right, sort of. Mantra is an extremely old word that has had similar meanings but different names in different cultures. So Japan might not actually use the word 'Mantra', but they have a word that means the same thing. Oda wanted the name of what Aisa used to be Mantra though, thus why it was in the furigana, right? Mantra isn't exactly an English word either. It is no more translated into English than Karate is. I will have to check my raws for how and where it is used. I don't think this detracts from my statement though.
It's like how Oda put the Japanese word for "Pistol" in every time Luffy does the Pistol, and he actually puts it there in Katakana right next to it. Haki is always written in Kanji, with the direct reading next to it.
Kanji always has furigana doesn't it? And doesn't this kind of help my point? Oda writes "Pistol" next to it because that is the intended pronunciation of the name. Haki also has the reading next to it because that is the intended pronunciation. The question now is whether or not it is being used as a name of a form of fighting, using word play on the theme of the story.
Because a fighting style is something you Learn and train. The Ambition is just what one uses to execute the style and technique.
I think what you are having trouble with here is wrapping your head around the idea that a "common" word is being used in a word play to be the name of something. That much is undeniable. Whether that gives sufficient reason to leave it untranslated is on the table for debate. You keep using this argument though, and ignoring what I have to say about it: You say a fighting style is something you learn and train? Then why did the Amazons say "because you don't know how to use it" and "he can't control it" if it weren't something you have to learn and train? Try to understand that just because an ability is inborn doesn't mean you cannot learn to use it. Let's use a fictional example: Telekinesis. Let's say a given amount of people are born with the ability to move things with their mind. They still have to learn how to use and control it, despite it being inborn. Also, they use their mind to get the job done, which is why it is called mind powers. The name of the ability is Telekinesis. However, if other languages have the same concept or skill, they might have their own name for it because it didn't come FROM another language. Therefore it might not get translated. In this case we have no similar word to Haki, so since Haki is the name and its intended pronunciation, we should keep it untranslated.
Just like back in Mock Town when Blackbeard picked up Luffy's 100 mil bounty and said "I thought 30 Million was too low for a kid with that Much Ambition" (Note: He said Haki)
Honestly, this is a wall for me. It could just be retcon on Oda's part or it could be Oda using the term to further/begin the word play he intends to use later. That would make the word play more understandable when later it is used as a name to a form of fighting.
About the Subject at hand. Look, I'm just gonna say, I tend to get REALLY argumentative and I like to debate things, but I admit I may be wrong. I'm a big person, and I can admit that I might very well be wrong on this, but it looks like we're not really arguing about what it IS anymore. We all seem to be in agreement that it's a latent power inside Luffy and it's based around his Ambition in some way. Heck, even Zkaiser is with me on that one. We're just arguing Semantics at this point. I say it's not a Proper Noun because it's just a trait of a person, you guys think it is because you classify it as an attack of some kind. We aren't disagreeing about what it IS, just how to Classify it. Oda will explain more later, and then we'll have a better understanding of where to put it classification wise.
Very well put. For the most part. And I would like to remind that since the beginning I have only been suggesting this as a possibility, not a certainty. I could very well be wrong as well. I will even admit that if I see enough information to show I am wrong. I haven't yet, but that doesn't mean I won't. We – or at least I -- (am not) aren't arguing semantics, but rather how a word is being used in this context. They are without a doubt referring to it as the name of something rather than the common usage of the word. Hachi did this, Amazons did this, and likely more people will as Oda continues to develop this. Plain and simple, if Oda didn't mean for it to be used as a name, he could have used other words to explain it in different scenarios, as well have the person phrasing it differently.
Could you please all cut this freaking argument once and for all?
Arg, what's wrong with them debating about it in a civilized manner in its own thread. They've both probably learned something that they didn't know from one another about the issue.
Sesshy's got it. The purpose of this thread is to discuss exactly what we are discussing. If you don't like it or don't want to see it, then don't come into this thread. I don't care about the topics of a good many other threads, so I don't go in them. I find this one to be interesting, so I come in here.
Petition to filter every appearance of the word "Haki" on this forum with "PINGAS". That'll put an end to the argument.
No, it won't. And if any word will be used as a substitute, Robbybevard already coined it, "peener size".