Hi!
Is Pacifista and Bartholomew Kuma probably based on the japanese army's light cruiser Kuma class?
Is Pacifista based on this?
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Hi!
Is Pacifista and Bartholomew Kuma probably based on the japanese army's light cruiser Kuma class?
No, not rly. Bear is not same as boat. Nice avatar, gotta love DC. Do you like sweets?
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I always just thought it was playing on the idea that Cyborg races tend to be identical?
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You do know that Kuma means "bear", right? Other than that I fail to see any similarities. Now if those ships were capable of firin' a lazor, that'd be a different story.
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I always just thought it was playing on the idea that Cyborg races tend to be identical?
Wasn't it that androids are identical if the creator wants it to be? Since a cyborg is half human, half machine cyborgs can't be identicals until of course you use twins, triplets, quadriplets and so on.
This is actually also what's been bugging me with the PX Pacifista. Unless they are not Kuma's brothers they shouldn't actually be cyborgs but rather androids. Didn't Drake even state that he was surprised that real blood comes out of their body?
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Clones ?
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Wow, good idea. In that case they could be cyborgs. But then the point remains that again we would be beyond dealing with cyborgs only.^^
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Cyborgs don't have to be half and half, as far as most fantasy and sci-fi lore goes anyway. I always imagined that Vegapunk sculpted the PXs out of metal in the form of the original, and then just added some organic parts (brains, blood, etc.) to somehow enhance battle capabilities.
It seems we'll have a hard time applying semantics most of the time anyway- look at DBZ. Androids 17 and 18 were humans (brother and sister) before Gero "enhanced" them with robotic parts, so shouldn't they be "cyborgs" (like Franky)? But they're "androids"…
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@CCC:
Cyborgs don't have to be half and half, as far as most fantasy and sci-fi lore goes anyway. I always imagined that Vegapunk sculpted the PXs out of metal in the form of the original, and then just added some organic parts (brains, blood, etc.) to somehow enhance battle capabilities.
True that they don't have to but in One Piece it so far is apparent that they are half and half. Franky, Kuma and the PX series are the only cyborgs in the story so far and all of them are half and half.
It seems we'll have a hard time applying semantics most of the time anyway- look at DBZ. Androids 17 and 18 were humans (brother and sister) before Gero "enhanced" them with robotic parts, so shouldn't they be "cyborgs" (like Franky)? But they're "androids"…
Yeah, that always bugged the hell out of me too. Clearly a screw up from Toriyama. However in OP it so far isn't a screw up since they are half and half as stated previously. It's only funny that so much are identical. But dirtmonkey already made a plausible suggestion how it could make sense.
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Cyborg. A portmanteau for "cybernetic organism". A living creature having mechanical and biological systems. In One Piece, this describes Franky and Bart Kuma rather well.
Android. A robot designed to look like a person. This seems like a good descriptor for the PX series, since they have not yet shown independent will like Kuma. If however, they are indeed mechanically enhanced clones of Kuma, perhaps it's best to compromise and call them cyclones.
EDIT: An interesting tidbit: the term cyborg was first coined in 1960. The term android was first coined in 1270.
Edit of EDIT: Perhaps this term would work better:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrot -
It's funny, cause in France DBZ 18 Go and 17 Go were translated as C17 and C18, C obviously stands for Cyborg.
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It's funny, cause in France DBZ 18 Go and 17 Go were translated as C17 and C18, C obviously stands for Cyborg.
Wait, that was a translation mistake? I thought they were called like this in Japanese too.
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No, in Japan it's A-17, A-18, etc… as in Android
and in France (and Spain) they're C-17, C-18... as in Cyborg.Although every robot prior to A-17 wasn't a cyborg IIRC, they were created from scratch.
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Hmm…
As I recall, the first Android introduced in Dragon Ball was Android #8, the one that looks like Boris Karloff's Frankenstein. This always made me wonder though; before Goku encounters #8 and Sergeant Purple on the fourth floor, he had to defeat the Major on the third floor. Yet the Major seemed more like an android than #8, which seemed more like a primitive cyborg. So this really is a matter of Toriyama not being familiar with the terminology.
I'm like Hisotensoku: Not here to preserve peace, nor to destroy it. I certainly can't move mountains. Mostly, I'm just full of hot air.- Meh
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Well, oda did say that he really likes dragonball
he even made a onepiece-dragonball cross episode -
@_Meh_:
Hmm…
As I recall, the first Android introduced in Dragon Ball was Android #8, the one that looks like Boris Karloff's Frankenstein. This always made me wonder though; before Goku encounters #8 and Sergeant Purple on the fourth floor, he had to defeat the Major on the third floor. Yet the Major seemed more like an android than #8, which seemed more like a primitive cyborg. So this really is a matter of Toriyama not being familiar with the terminology.
Yeah, I guess Toriyama simply not being familiar with the terminology is the most plausible guess.
Still the more interesting part is what the PX series actually really are. If I'm not mistaken they themselves have never been labeled as Pacifista. It was only Kuma himself who said that he is a cyborg AND that he is what they call a Pacifista. But I don't think it was said that the others were said to be cyborgs.
On the other hand being half man, half machine doesn't necessarily mean that you enhance flesh with mechanics. The other way around should work too, shouldn't it. Or to put it more simple, is the Terminator and android or a cyborg? I mean he does have real flesh and blood doesn't he? I mean it's something different then for Lt. Commander Data from the NGE Enterprise, which I always have in mind when I'm thinking of androids. So, if the PX series is base machine but has flesh added, would they be a cyborg or android?
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On the other hand being half man, half machine doesn't necessarily mean that you enhance flesh with mechanics. The other way around should work too, shouldn't it. Or to put it more simple, is the Terminator and android or a cyborg? I mean he does have real flesh and blood doesn't he? I mean it's something different then for Lt. Commander Data from the NGE Enterprise, which I always have in mind when I'm thinking of androids. So, if the PX series is base machine but has flesh added, would they be a cyborg or android?
That was kind of my point before. I would call anything with both organic and robotic components a cyborg (regardless of which came first), and any pure robot designed to look humanoid is an android.
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In the case of the Terminator, the synthesized tissues did allow it to more effectively infiltrate human shelters, as well as allow them to travel back in time. The adage of 'Nothing dead can go' from the first film just seemed to get tossed out the window in the subsequent films, with "liquid metal" Terminators like T-1000 or T-X being able to travel to the past.
I'm like Hisotensoku: Not here to preserve peace, nor to destroy it. I certainly can't move mountains. Mostly, I'm just full of hot air.- Meh
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@CCC:
That was kind of my point before. I would call anything with both organic and robotic components a cyborg (regardless of which came first), and any pure robot designed to look humanoid is an android.
I would so too, but the question is if it is generally considered like this in science fiction or is it not?
@_Meh_:
In the case of the Terminator, the synthesized tissues did allow it to more effectively infiltrate human shelters, as well as allow them to travel back in time.
So does this series (it was T-800 wasn't it?) count as an cyborg then?
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Well, it doesn't need the biological matter to function, it just has it as an enhancement. In Terminator's case, it's an enhanced cyborg, rather than a restorative cyborg.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyborg#In_medicine
As to the original question Vermouth asked, I'm not sure really. Sentoumaru did say that each of them cost as much as a battleship…
