Perrin's stuff makes a certain amount of narrative sense but is also such a huge, dangerous deviation from the books. I absolutely get what they're going for, but I think it would have been better handled through a flashback of some sort rather than
! maybe the worst instance of fridging in the past ten years.
The show knows the whole thing is going to mutate into an ensemble show later, so they're trying to give everyone something to do and more fleshing out early on, rather than it having be "the Rand show" for the first two seasons and then splitting things up. It's an appropriate route to take for adaptation and with hindsight… since they know it doesn't just end at book 3 like Jordan had originally planned. Hyper focus on Rand made more sense when the story was shorter.
That's also why they're playing way more coy on "who is the dragon" including even the possibility of it being one of the girls.
I definitely get that impulse, and I think it's the right one, I just don't think it worked in execution.
! For the first half hour of the show, it was hard to grasp onto anything because they introduced so many characters, gave them all a bunch of scenes, and it felt kinda like dead air until Moiraine showed up, let alone until the Trollocs attacked. I think introducing the Fade earlier, and having the other characters notice it would have at least given things some tension. Like, when Egwene gets out of the water, maybe she sees it up in the tree line, then the next shot it's gone. Then cut to maybe Perrin at the forge and seeing it through the window. Reintroduce Rand walking into town being followed by it, etc. It's a small thing, but it at least grounds things in something.
! Not to go comparing the show to Game of Thrones too much, but Game of Thrones manages this by giving us the opening with the White Walkers, then immediately having Ned execute the guy who saw them. It gives the story its first ticking clock: the White Walkers are coming, and then the second: winter is coming. Then we get the exposition fun times, then "there was a raven, the king is coming" gives us the third ticking clock. We still get all the character establishing exposition, but we already have these lingering things on our mind.
! It feels like the first couple of scenes establish who the Aes Sedai are and what happens to men who wield the One Power, but that doesn't immediately connect to what's going on in the Two Rivers. Sure, Moiraine's going around looking for the Dragon, but we're not really told what that means. Then a bunch of stuff just sort of happens. Unless someone mentions it earlier and I missed it, Bel Tine's not even mentioned until the last half of the episode. I don't even think the Dark One is mentioned until the end, or episode 2.
! I understand there's a lot to introduce in the beginning, and the backstory is rather mealy, but my partner was lost the whole time (he's never read the books). It's probably why Amazon dropped three episodes right out the gate–the pilot does a poor job of setting things up.
They really should have just allowed the first episode to be extra length. Another 10 or 20 minutes would have gone a LONG way… and you can kind of tell there was probably a lot of stuff that was filmed then cut for time.
Its a digital format, you don't HAVE to have an exact running time guys! If it ever goes to tv you can cut it down then.
They probably should have cut the cold opening with the Reds though. It doesn't add much and just sort of confused matters. If you HAVE to fit a strict time, that extra couple minutes could have gone to other things. I haven't gotten to it yet but apparently the cold opening to episode 3 is a lot stronger and would have worked better. Ah well, backseat directing is easy.
Sandersons fix involving perrins master would have been much better.
Where is my wholesome Shire-like Emond’s Field? Nynaeve would have battered Abell senseless with a stick if he tried that nonsense.
Nah, I quite enjoyed the first three episodes. Things I wouldn’t have done- I had the same viewpoint as Sanderson about how it should have been Luhan if that’s the route they were going, because why in the world have they went for
! fridging in this day and age- but I think this has the making of a solid, entertaining show to watch on a Friday night, which is good enough for me. I’ve seen Sanderson’s comments on reddit and agree with pretty much all of them, I’d like him to have a bigger say in future seasons, but I get that probably Rafe is having to deal with some demands from Amazon higherups of his own.
But yeah, pleasantly surprised.
The opening scene almost put me off completely till i saw Moraine but then straight went to the women's circle ceremony hehe. I agree with most Perrin's change left a bad taste and Mat's Dad being a cheat and all. That felt wrong given what Mat learnt from him that helps in the future books.
Otherwise, very excited for more episodes. Never expected for the books to be adapted into a movie late alone TV show.
Only watched the first episode and I'm not sure if I'll continue, considering I struggled to finish it. From the opening sequence I already got Xena vibes, and it remained all throughout the episode. The origin stories were made grittier because… nobody knows how to write characters that aren't damaged in some way any more? Seeing how producers dealt with things so far, I can't imagine how they expect to handle the plot once things become really complex. Or do they plan to keep this show a watered down loose adaptation along its whole duration?
! Why are Aes Sedai rings so big? They look like something you can get from a cereal box.
! Moiraine's weaving was a cringe fest. While weaving can be done without any movement, current Aes Sedai find it easier to form weaves with gestures, but I don't remember any belly dancing was involved. Plus the decision to show the weaves in the first place is weird. They chose to show Moiraine's perspective, which is why the weaves are visible. But why on earth couldn't they have shifted the perspective towards one of the guys or girls who still can't use saidar. It would even save them some budget ffs. Do the concepts of saidin and saidar even exist any more? Since Moiraine thinks a male character's power could have migrated towards a woman?
! And why doesn't Moiraine have a sa'angreal? In the book it was the sole reason why she managed to defend Emond's Field. Do they not have those any more? Because that's a big part of the plot out the window.
! In the book we first see Trollocs when they attack Rand and Tam on the farm while they're enjoying a quiet evening. It was tense and scary, and an actual start of the story, where you really become gripped and desperately hope Rand will manage to keep Tam alive. Here it was almost like an afterthought, and they were attacked by a sole Trolloc. Trollocs don't usually attack on their own, unless they're on the run. And Rand was supposed to be a target here. So why send a lone fucking Trolloc to get him?
Ultimately, I'm aware I'm not really the intended audience for this. Plenty of people who can enjoy fiction watered down for TV. This just doesn't work for me, for multitude of reasons. It seems like words "updated for modern audience" mean "shitty" more and more. Such a shame.
Oh I believe things might pick up in the following episodes, but from my perspective, they already fucked things up with the start.
Near universal consensus is the first episode is the weakest one and it gets much better in the following episodes.
Which sucks but dropping 200 pages of exposition into an hour is rough. I understand why they wanted to get out of Emond's field as fast as possible, but the book spent a LOT of time there so there was a lot of space to slow drip feed infortmation.
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Or do they plan to keep this show a watered down loose adaptation along its whole duration?
They were never planning on filming a 300 episode series that took 14 years to do, so yeah, stuff is going to be cut.
For the better in the long run, some of it needs trimming.
It sucks for the infodump heavy early parts but, such is adaptation.
Plus the decision to show the weaves in the first place is weird. They chose to show Moiraine's perspective, which is why the weaves are visible.
Because its a visual medium. "This magic is invisible" works in writing but it doesn't work great in visuals. Just look at how bad Haki was in One Piece before Oda added the black effect. But even with that, it was used invisibly in the opening with the Reds and to heat the water, so in this case it was to be showy and have a visual viewers could see so they understood the full range and power of it.
Do the concepts of saidin and saidar even exist any more? Since Moiraine thinks a male character's power could have migrated towards a woman?
The dragon has been reborn. Rebirths don't have to keep the same gender.
But mostly its so that they can easily justify dragging along Egwene and Nynaeve without spending 20 minutes of screentime explaining why they're being brought along. And so that the audience that doesn't know who the dragon is hcan have a few different candidates instead of it being blatantly obvious.
Similar reason they moved Thom from being in the first episode to being in the third episode.
Yes, in the book the Karaethon Cycle is pretty clear about the new dragon being male again, but prophecies do have a way of being wonky without full context so they could just keep using He for the sake of referring to the first Dragon.
And why doesn't Moiraine have a sa'angreal?
The entire first season is under 8 hours. The audiobook is almost 30. Stuff is going to get cut or moved around or explained later. Part of adaption. She can still have the thing without stopping to make a big explanation about it in the moment.
This is the same reason the Lord of the Rings movies didn't have Gandalf and Frodo talk about Gollum at Bag End and moved that conversation instead to the mines. They still had the same conversation, just later. You split the exposition up for a different pacing and medium.
A lot of the first episode changes people are disliking about the town are there so Matt and Perrin can have actual personalities and arcs prior to book 4. Showing some of their later character and conflicts earlier.
If Jordan had had the luxury and hinsight of reworking the earlier volumes after the later ones were written, he would have adjusted things. Just look at New Spring and how casually it takes for granted all the stuff from the first 9 books despite being a prequel. He shored up the characters and the world as he went, and however attached you are to the first book, its not as strong and fully fleshed out as it would have been were it re-written with hindsight.
Some changes are made for pacing, some for consistency, some for the sake of giving the cast anything to do so its not just The Rand Show before mutating into an ensemble later.
Also for better or worse we're in a post GoT world so some kind of shock value or "more realism" was probably required. And, as much as Jordan romanticized andmade things PG, he still had bloody battles and sex and darkness in the books, he just sort of looked away from it. But it was there.
Because its a visual medium. "This magic is invisible" works in writing but it doesn't work great in visuals. Just look at how bad Haki was in One Piece before Oda added the black effect.
It can be worked around easily. Trollocs can be killed with air slashes, flying rocks and lightnings with or without the weaves floating around. Magic usage being visible/invisible is one of plot devices relied upon heavily in books. If they can't even find a way to make such a simple concept work, why even bother doing anything.
The dragon has been reborn. Rebirths don't have to keep the same gender.
But mostly its so that they can easily justify dragging along Egwene and Nynaeve without spending 20 minutes of screentime explaining why they're being brought along. And so that the audience that doesn't know who the dragon is hcan have a few different candidates instead of it being blatantly obvious.
Similar reason they moved Thom from being in the first episode to being in the third episode.
Yes, in the book the Karaethon Cycle is pretty clear about the new dragon being male again, but prophecies do have a way of being wonky without full context so they could just keep using He for the sake of referring to the first Dragon.
That's just a solution to an issue that shouldn't have even existed.
But, if they simply opted to remove saidin/saidar, it's a non issue.
The entire first season is under 8 hours. The audiobook is almost 30. Stuff is going to get cut or moved around or explained later. Part of adaption. She can still have the thing without stopping to make a big explanation about it in the moment.
This is the same reason the Lord of the Rings movies didn't have Gandalf and Frodo talk about Gollum at Bag End and moved that conersation instead to the mines. You split the exposition up for a different pacing and medium.
All it would take for them is to show her pull out the figurine from her robe and then continue with her belly dance. It would take more time to explain that the figurine is what gave her a power surge in retrospect. Maybe they just plan to increase power levels across the board.
Maybe… actually watch another episode or two to see how they handle those things when there's a little more room to breathe?It's like you were expecting them t fit thousands of pages of lore and nuance into the first hour.
Or don't, you're clearly going to be unhappy with everything, so save your energy, you're going to hate it.
I do agree the Aes Sedai rings are ridiculously large though.
Don't just assume stuff. I didn't expect them to transfer everything. And it's true I didn't expect they'd rush things so much. The show structure doesn't really allow for a slow start, but they decided upon that fairly early from what I can tell.
Feel like you're taking my grievances personally.
Little things matter. When I see they made a little detail like that look awkward, I can't get too optimistic.
Feel like you're taking my grievances personally.
Lol whut?
Little things matter. When I see they made a little detail like that look awkward, I can't get too optimistic.
Sure. But there's also a lot of little things they're getting very right as well. Your specific complaints are about very specific exposition details that its completely unreasonable to expect to be in the first episode, and to then theory craft about when you don't see it show up. Like Like Nynaeve's healing skills while hinted at in episode 1 come up prominently in episode 3. They gotta pace out the exposition and reveals, they couldn't just plop in everything right away..
Like where are you even getting that they "opted to remove saidin/saidar"? Beyond that they're not immediately ruling out the dragon MIGHT have been reborn as a woman? Right ow they're till trying to explain to the audience what even the basics of one of them is, they'll surely get into the differences and details when its more relevant. Possibly in episode 4, given how episode 3 ended.
Again, the general consensus is the first episode is the weakest one. And I agree with that. But you've already handed down your final opinion that its shitty and not for you. Which is fine, it IS any show's job to nail it with the first episode and grab the audience in that time. if you didn't dig it that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. But you're also calling the entire thing shitty without giving it much of a chance.
You guys said to read up to book 6 and then stop right? That it kind of loses its way
You guys said to read up to book 6 and then stop right? That it kind of loses its way
If you're already in it then go to the end.
But it has a definite slog in the middle where you WILL notice the pacing fall off a cliff. It starts slowing down around 6 or 7, but books 8-10 are the main culprit, Then it picks back up again for the last four books.
If you're enjoying it so far you're fine. I just tried to warn you off because it is a LONG commitment and the middle definitely sucks. Note that when you get to that point, if you feel your interest really waning or falling off, it IS legitimate to skim or read synopsis of those chapters if its a character you're not super invested in, then pick back up at book 11. .
Basically Jordan expanded the world so much in terms of characters and plot threads that in the middle focusing on… all of them... slowed it down badly.
If you're already in it then go to the end.
But it has a definite slog in the middle where you WILL notice the pacing fall off a cliff. Then it picks back up for the last four books.
If you're enjoying it so far you're fine. I just tried to warn you off because it is a LONG commitment and the middle definitely sucks.
Will do, still very excited to see the magic systems grow and very excited to see where Matt's story goes too
How long till they start explaining the rules and limits to the various magic systems? I’m almost done with book two and so far there hasn’t been any hint at it
I do agree the Aes Sedai rings are ridiculously large though.
I feel like this was done deliberately for the visual cue in episode 2 with the questioner guy having a whole collection of them. I thought it was a great shorthand way for them to visually show how much of a threat he is.
How long till they start explaining the rules and limits to the various magic systems? I’m almost done with book two and so far there hasn’t been any hint at it
When the characters that didn't know magic before start being properly taught how it works.
It all blends together, I can't tell you when that is exactly. I would have thought you'd have at least the basics by book 2 though. Surely they've explained weaving the elements at least a little by that point? Angreal? Difference between Saidin and Saidar?
There's a specific point I know when and where there's intensive lessons but the overall story blends together so I'm not sure when exactly that is. Would have sworn it was sooner than later though.
There a really simple question I could ask of "has X happened yet" that would make it clear but that's obviously spoilery.
Watched the first episode finally. As a book fan, it's an interesting curio. I disagree with some changes but can understand why they did them. Not the worst put them in an icebox I've ever seen so I can live with it (Sanderson's idea was much better). Biggest problem I had was it felt like it was missing a lot of emotional beats to why I should care about these characters, just feels like they rushed the development too quick to get the exposition out of the way and to leave Emmond's field by the end of episode one.
! Also I am not a fan of Egwene being a Taveren nor that Moraine immediately knew that there were Taveren at Emmond's field before she even got there. It takes away from the specialness of the trio and undermines the whole serendipity angle the books had. Ah well, I do think this has a lot of potential though and apparently it gets much better by the next two episodes.
Also Morraine's weaves were pretty rad, I dug that artistic choice.
The first episode is definitely the weakest and suffers most strongly from "we have to get to this point in 55 minutes, no time for character stuff." It really really would have benefitted from another 10 or 20 minutes, or even just being a two hour opening.
Yeah they released the first three episodes at once but its not the same thing. I know the show can't amgic the budget for an extra ep out of nowhere, and stretching the start would mean crunching something else in the middle… but the first episode really needs time to breathe and setup and make a first impression... and it didn't do great at that.
But man its a hell of a whirlwind getting other develpments in fastforward.
Definitely agreed that the first episode is the weakest. The opening scene is pretty lackluster and it's hard to get a feel for any of the characters. I enjoyed episodes 2 and 3 quite a bit though!
Showrunner Rafe Judkins did an AMA yesterday; among the answers were that the Aiel are his favorite group and he's already cast Avhienda, Egwene's time in the White Tower is his favorite character arc, and that the most notes he implements from anyone are from Brandon Sanderson.
Also, Amazon reports that WoT was their most watched premier of 2021.
Oh Light, it's so nice that the show is finally here. I've been having a lot of fun with it even when some stuff doesn't really work for me.
I whole-heartedly agree that the first episode needed to be longer. They clearly had to end with Winternight so it was always going to be rushed. I just don't get why the episode was 10 minutes shorter than 2 and 3. I really would have appreciated a scene of them saying their farewells and justifying a little bit more why they're going away with a stranger Aes Sedai now. Also, here's your sword, son.
Personally, I don't really like the way channelling looks. It's much more involved than what I imagined. It does work that it seems to take a little bit loinger though because that makes Warders much more valuable.
The fridging…is fridging, you're right. I don't really have a problem with it, but I acknowledge that it looks bad.
The only other thing that didn't work for me has also been mentioned already. Liandrin and the other Reds chasing a rando channeller was wonky and mostly unnecessary. I get that it sets up the end of episode 3, but it seemed like a strange place to start. I will say it's definitely a choice to have one of the very first characters to appear to be...of the man-hating kind. Not sure what the intention was.
My standout moments from the first three episodes:
Some more words about the prophecies and changes involved. Book spoilers follow
! In the established lore of the books (and beyond, as in interviews), souls have an affixed gender which means that the Dragon will always be a man. I think it's a good idea to let go of that restriction so I'm fine with the potential female Dragon Reborn. It does sort of take away some of the fear when it's a 50-50 chance of the DR going mad or not, but then that will only be relevant in the first season anyway. What I'm more surprised by is the fact that Egwene is a contender considering her age. I assume she's also 20 in the TV series or Moiraine's thought process makes no sense at all. She did rule out Nynaeve already. Oh, another great scene, btw, when Moiraine is just trying to figure out Nynaeve's age and she immediately takes it as commentary about her presumed inexperience. Anyway, I guess Egwene will also be a Ta'veren? Sure, why not. But I don't really get how word has spread about four Ta'veren in a random village. It's not like we are introduced to weird, probability-defying things happening around the boys and Egwene. They probably only just became Ta'veren anyway, it's a temporary thing after all. But it's a shortcut for TV. I'll take it. Not that the term has been brought up again or explained at all…
Oh, and we do see Moiraine packing 'her' Angreal in the very first scene (or some sort of statuette, at least), so I assume she has been making use of it during the battle. Actually, I feel like it wasn't made that explicit in the books either, but I could be misremembering. A scene establishing that in the show was probably an easy cut. Sort of like Perrin's wife.
Anyway, I have very high hopes for the rest of the season and I get the feeling that certain choices are generally paying off when I watch non-reader reactions to the episodes. Which I have been doing. A lot.
Episode 2 was way better. The show took its time to slow down and actually give the story and the characters room to breathe. I adored the Manetheren story from Moiraine. And man, did they make Shadar Logoth look cool and intimidating. If the show keeps up this level of quality, I am quite excited for what's to come when we get to the real meat of the story.
Episode 4 is up now. I won't be watching it till tomorrow afternoon, but its up.
Apparently "release on Friday" means midnight GMT. Or 7pm EST if you're in north america.
I've been lucky enough to find another fan in the wild to watch the show with. It is also the worst thing that has ever happened to me because I can't watch right when it's available.
Finally caught up. I think overall this is a pretty good adaptation so far making the best with the time it has. I do think it does have a little bit of a problem where it game of thrones the tone at times. The books had a lot of dark and grisly moments but they did have a lighter more charming tone for the most part and maybe it'd be better if the show tried to capture that spirit than falling onto what's familiar for audiences.
Apparently they're gonna cover all of book 1 in this season which given where the story is at this point, that's gonna be a lot of ground to cover.
Book and episode 4 spoilers
! Like Caemelyn and meeting Elayne, escaping the White Cloaks, meeting Loial, the Borderlands, traversing the Ways, the final battle against Baalzamon. They've already skipped introducing Elayas apparently. Yet the spent a good portion with the Logain stuff which is entirely new content. Not that I am complaining, I thought how they handled it was a very interesting deviation from the books that gave Logain a lot more pathos than the guy who got gentled off screen. It will be interesting when Nynaeve heals him when in the show, she's the reason he got gentled in the first place.
! If there's one thing I'm not quite sure how I feel about is how Nynaeve is stronger than Logain. The show overall seems to be going for a more egalitarian approach in how it handles the story compared to Robert Jordan. The fact that the Dragon Reborn could be a woman (when the Karatheon cycle made it very clear he was male) is one such change. I understand why it was made, for the sake of a mystery hook though that's going to be inevitably a big anticlimax for non book readers if they expect it to be anyone other than Rand.
! The lack of distinction between Saidin and Saidar and how male power users are far stronger than female power users (the strongest female channeler could not hold a candle to a male channeler, Logain was like a ++2 vs Nynaeve being a 3 according to the wiki) are not changes I'm sure I'm content with. Jordan's writing was definitely colored by his antiquated views but I feel a lot of the world building and philosophies and character growth was tied to these views so if we're throwing that out for a more modern audience, I worry it will fuddle things up a bit. Look no one wants to see Mat get reverse raped or the girls constantly moaning about men, least of all me, you can throw that stuff into the sun. I'm just remembering really interesting scenes like Elayne and Rand understanding the differences between their powers, how Saidar is like a river you flow with while Saidan is a torrential power you forcefully control and all these distinctions and differences I thought were very interesting because they reflected real life society where men are biologically stronger or how women can link with each other because they have higher emotional intelligence. It was Jordan's way of saying how despite being so different, both sides have their advantages and disadvantages and that's okay, there is equality in inequality because men and women are capable of different things. And just like in the books, they are strongest when they work together and resonate with each other. Now to be fair, the show does a good job of showing the distinction of the two halves of the power visually. And even though Nynaeve overpowering Logain worked with his character arc, I feel like making it so that both halves of the power can be equal in strength takes away something from the story. In D&D terms, it's like 4th edition which homogenized all the classes. You had your list of classes with different stats, and then someone went and flattened them all out so they're nearly identical. I guess my issues with this change is twofold. By trying to make things more equal, it makes things more boring. And by trying to make things more equal, it feels less reflective of current society and undercuts the social commentaries on the interpersonal relationships between men and women that is the crux of the entire story. And given how heavily important this theme is in the books, it'll require a lot of reworking in a lot of places all for what I feel would be a less interesting story than keeping that distinction between the two sexes.
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I want to add a note of positivity by saying that something that this show excels at which Game of Thrones failed miserably (the show not the books, the books nailed this perfectly) is focusing on the little people. It's not stuck on the politics of giant kingdoms and organizations, it focuses a lot on the common people, the local culture, history, the day to day goings and mundane details that color the world. This is something the books focused on a lot (albeit too much to its detriment) and I'm happy after the tumultuous first episode, the show decided to slow down and explore more of this.
So they've officially kept in men and women can't see the other's weaves, but the audience gets to because the audience gets to. They're going to have to be more explicit about that later because just saying it while showing it differently really doesn't get that across.
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@TLC:
! Like Caemelyn and meeting Elayne,
It's already confirmed they're not going there this season. They didn't want to have to cast a bunch of main characters for 10 minutes of screen time, then have the actors leave then need to come back two years later. Plus its one less mega-set to build this season which is good for the budget. They'll be doing that place in season 2.
Some of the shenanigans happening now are to work around that particular change.
! Yet the spent a good portion with the Logain stuff which is entirely new content.
The showrunner is a big fan of that character, so they're extending their arc a bit, rather than having them vanish for half the series and then reappear again halfway through.
At least two important character have been cast so they'll be showing up this season, but obviously how and where will have to change, similar to how they moved Tom around.
! Min and Loial are both confirmed for this season. They were at the blue carpet premiere.
!
! I never pictured Min as asian, but my brain whitewashed a lot of the cast.
! No clue on ELyas, he may be cut entirely as inevitable shrinking to condense thigns down to 8 seasons. I imagine Morgase's role will be drastically reduced as well.
I see, I agree with that change then. They can save it for season 2 when they get a bigger budget because of the success of the first season and they can give it the Anor Londo treatment.
! Like I said in the previous post, I'm really happy with what they did with Logain. I can't wait for him to come back in future seasons opposed to being like oh it's that guy we met for half a second whose already been neutered.
I just finished the second book!!!
! Oh man, Rand is finally gonna stop being wimpy and accept who he is
! also what's it gonna do for the morale of the children of light now that Artur Hawking's army (you know the obvious good guys) destroyed them in battle, I can't wait to see the shit they get, I hate them
! I'm really hoping Matt gets some sort of powers from the dagger, and becomes a force to be reckoned with
I just finished the second book!!!
! Oh man, Rand is finally gonna stop being wimpy and accept who he is
! also what's it gonna do for the morale of the children of light now that Artur Hawking's army (you know the obvious good guys) destroyed them in battle, I can't wait to see the shit they get, I hate them
! I'm really hoping Matt gets some sort of powers from the dagger, and becomes a force to be reckoned with
Hmm. I feel like all of those things will happen but maybe not in the way you expect or want them to. Have fun!
Episode 4
! These just keep getting better. I am enjoying the extra focus on Logain and his scene with the king made him appear extremely charismatic. He was portrayed as a guy just trying to do the right thing, even seemingly holding back the madness, but he got gentled anyway. I like how Liandrin was able to achieve that particluar goal and the way we are slowly getting introduced to Tower politics.
! Nynaeve's SSJ moment was a little bit too much for me. I actually missed the line where Moiraine clarifies that men can't see women's weaves (and vice versa). So in the end when she erupts in light, I figured Logain was able to perceive that. What with the raging sun and all that. Or maybe Nynaeve just actually started glowing. I didn't quite buy that she would get that angry over Lan, but apparently all of our protagonists have been traveling for about a month already which went by me entirely. Felt like a week, maybe.
! Mat, Rand and Thom are having fun times with the Grinwells, oh wait, they're dead, how unfortunate. Nice scenes though.
! And now my favourite part of the episode. I mentioned that the Manetheren speech in episode 2 made me tear up and I believe my strong reaction to it was very much due to me having read the books. But then Ila just sweeps in with that story about her daughter, selling me the Way of the Leaf in a way that the books never managed to. Brb, melting down my many axes. How can this show just do this? Create so much emotion in an instant? And not just for me, but I assume for non-readers as well. That actor was fantastic, that probably helped.
! On to book stuff
! >! Yeah, I don't get the point of Egwene apparently being stronger than Logain either. And Nynaeve even beyond that? Who knows at this point. Maybe it's some sort of ripple effect where Nynaeve will be going up against Lanfear or whoever, so she has to be that strong in the Power. Or it's just cooler like this…
! Birgitte got name-dropped! Also Else Grinwell dropped dead. Thanks, subtitles, for letting me know it was her. It's a great idea to have Thom suspect that Mat is a channeler and that they have to keep him away from Aes Sedai. That'll help him develop some more dagger madness until it's time to solve the problem.
! Kerene, the Green sister who died, was apparently already dead when the books began (and the Captain-General!) because the Black had murdered her for knowing about Gitara Moroso's Foretelling. Tangentially related: it seems odd to me that several Aes Sedai are aware of the Reds just gentling people in the wilds without proper trial, but aren't focusing on it. That was a big deal in the books and led to the Reds losing so much of their standing. I suppose, that might actually happen on screen which would make Elaida's and the Reds' coup have a more imminent basis.
I just finished the second book!!!
! Oh man, Rand is finally gonna stop being wimpy and accept who he is
! also what's it gonna do for the morale of the children of light now that Artur Hawking's army (you know the obvious good guys) destroyed them in battle, I can't wait to see the shit they get, I hate them
! I'm really hoping Matt gets some sort of powers from the dagger, and becomes a force to be reckoned with
Mat becomes a very fun character and really starts coming into his own starting in book 3.
Everyone talks about how much better Matt gets once we get his POV chapters starting in book three, to the point I’m very excited
I’m most excited to see how the power systems work and how strong the main cast will get, the girls will obviously train in Tar Valon, I think Rand might get training from the false dragon Logain, but that’s just a theory I have, Perrin knows another guy with abilities similar to his, though I forget his name, and I have no idea about Matt except that the power in him is close to that of the dark one, so he could become insanely powerful
Up to the point you're at, Matt is basically "Dagger possessed Matt" which… is a thing.
But once he's free to actually be himself so you'll see his real character. Most of the cast you probably have at least a semblance of an idea of what their arcs are going to be now, (there are definite twists to be sure) but Matt?
He gets some lucky breaks, and some unlucky, that lead him to an interesting fate that you have no way of guessing without cheating.
! I was thinking that a clever way to explain the power scaling in the show is to say that first time Power Users get a massive boost of Power, like a dam wall breaking and the water just comes flooding in. Nynaeve won't be that strong once she settles down.
@TLC:
! I was thinking that a clever way to explain the power scaling in the show is to say that first time Power Users get a massive boost of Power, like a dam wall breaking and the water just comes flooding in. Nynaeve won't be that strong once she settles down.
! Or she IS that strong, but has her block so can't really do anything most of the time for a few seasons. She and Egwene ARE supposed to be among the strongest in ages.
! Morrain's showing in the first episode is still a little nuts but as long as they eventually explain that she had a power boosting item I'm okay with it.
Or they just powercreep all magic users and say to hell with it and we get really nuts when the badguys with magic start showing up.
Episode 5 spoiler. It's a very minor one.
! Loial!
! Pictures of his look had leaked and it looked bloody awful. But in actual motion with that actor… damn. The actor sold me on his being Loial in about 3 seconds and I instantly stopped caring about the costume and makeup.
! Like everyone else is doing good acting and being their characters just fine, but he... just embodied Loial instantly. I think he must have studied the audiobooks because he's definitely pulling some from what the male narrator did in those.
! (Yes in theory he should be Trolloc sized and with crazy ears and stuff, but adding massive CG to a regular would lead to them having to write him out of stuff more often than not.) And they can adjust and tweak makeup as they go.
! Some other stuff happened too. But LOIAL!
! It's been a while since I read the first book but did they ever even make it to Tar Valon? I know they cut out Elyas and Whitebridge and Caemelyn but I do not remember what happens after that. I figured they'd meet up somewhere on the journey and hit the Ways to the Borderlands.
! Also YEYEYEYE MOTHERFUCKIN' LOIAL
! They need to rewrite the story to make sure Loial has a lot of screentime in every season instead of disappearing like he did for most of the books.
@TLC:
! It's been a while since I read the first book but did they ever even make it to Tar Valon? I know they cut out Elyas and Whitebridge and Caemelyn but I do not remember what happens after that. I figured they'd meet up somewhere on the journey and hit the Ways to the Borderlands.
! Also YEYEYEYE MOTHERFUCKIN' LOIAL
! They need to rewrite the story to make sure Loial has a lot of screentime in every season instead of disappearing like he did for most of the books.
! They meet up in Caemlyn and from there travel through the Ways to Fal Dara. Rand never makes it to Tar Valon until after his epiphany. I'm holding out hope that he at least won't enter the Tower in the show until way later.
I’m close to half way through the third book now
! I thought Matt was going to be connected to the dagger permanently, I assumed the corruption had gone to far, now it seems like it’s not really a factor in the story anymore, I was really hoping for some sort of evil power inside him that he had to fight to control,l like Kurama from Naruto or Ichigo’s inner hollow from bleach, something you can use but Everytime you use it you risk losing control
! I know the daggers not gone completely, there’s no chance of that but I don’t know where that story thread is going
Man, seeing reaction to the show… people that like the books are enjoying the show just fine. People that "love" the books are being insufferable assholes who were never going to be pleased.
Episode 5 not really spoiler?
! "How dare they cut content and instead add a pointless warder subplot that wasn't in the books!"
! That… wasn't about the random warder. That was about Lan and Morraine. It was barely even subtext, it was practically text. That subplot demonstrated the warder bond, what happens when the lose it, what it means for someone to accept that bond, talked about if it could be transferred. If its possible to be in love with someone that isn't your Aes Sadai, so it was also about Nynaeve, and Morraine thinking about if she has any right to keep holding onto Lan.. It also adressed trauma in general which is a major thee of the series. It got across exposition and inner monologues that would have taken hours to do without examples, and did it all in a subplot in one episode.
! Yeah it was an "invented" subplot, but it consolodated and explained a ton of material and showcased it in memorable visceral way that just might just pay off later in a number of ways, given there's several later plotlines that development can spill into.
! Folks gotta chill, it was never going yo be a 300 episode 20 year project, changes are gonna happen. (They're gonna be really upset when they condense three or four books of slog down to one season.) Especially since it's a show, there needs to be plots that actually start and end within an episode ocassionally.
There's definitely legit complaints and problems to have, and stuff I wish had made it in, but overall they're handling it pretty well. Especially considering this is the arduous "set up all the rules" part of the story.
I’m close to half way through the third book now
! I thought Matt was going to be connected to the dagger permanently, I assumed the corruption had gone to far, now it seems like it’s not really a factor in the story anymore, I was really hoping for some sort of evil power inside him that he had to fight to control,l like Kurama from Naruto or Ichigo’s inner hollow from bleach, something you can use but Everytime you use it you risk losing control
! I know the daggers not gone completely, there’s no chance of that but I don’t know where that story thread is going
There's still a few side effects to the dagger that Matt will want to address, but not what you're thinking, no. There is no real way for you to guess where Matt's plot is going without cheating and asking questions. But Matt is Matt so there are lots of fireworks and ladies and dice.
Mat's arc is easily the wildest and least predictable of the main three. It's a fun ride.
Speaking of which, they've recast Mat for the second season. I've mostly enjoyed Barney Harris's portrayal of him though he feels a bit too downtrodden at times. Mat's obviously impaired for a bit but I'm hoping Dónal Finn can bring out a bit more of that signature roguishness.
If you get dunked on in the dream, you get dunked on in real life
Mat's arc is easily the wildest and least predictable of the main three. It's a fun ride.
Speaking of which, they've recast Mat for the second season. I've mostly enjoyed Barney Harris's portrayal of him though he feels a bit too downtrodden at times. Mat's obviously impaired for a bit but I'm hoping Dónal Finn can bring out a bit more of that signature roguishness.
Oof, I didn't know that, it sucks when one of your big faces of a show doesn't stick around.
Speaking of which, they've recast Mat for the second season. I've mostly enjoyed Barney Harris's portrayal of him though he feels a bit too downtrodden at times. Mat's obviously impaired for a bit but I'm hoping Dónal Finn can bring out a bit more of that signature roguishness.
Yeah, we still don't know why, either. He was just quietly recast. He's not going to any other shows, they haven't announced health or family problems… but he wasn't involved in any of the promotion and his social media accounts were closed off and shut down months ago.
If its some kind of illness or family problem, wish him well. But that its being completely downplayed and unexplained and the social media stuff makes it seem like maybe the actor did something bad and had to be let go.
It may also just be that "recasting one of your big leads in the second season" is a really bad look and not something to advertise before the show even premieres and its being downplayed for that reason alone.
We may never know.
Man, seeing reaction to the show… people that like the books are enjoying the show just fine. People that "love" the books are being insufferable assholes who were never going to be pleased.
Episode 5 not really spoiler?
! "How dare they cut content and instead add a pointless warder subplot that wasn't in the books!"
! That… wasn't about the random warder. That was about Lan and Morraine. It was barely even subtext, it was practically text. That subplot demonstrated the warder bond, what happens when the lose it, what it means for someone to accept that bond, talked about if it could be transferred. If its possible to be in love with someone that isn't your Aes Sadai, so it was also about Nynaeve, and Morraine thinking about if she has any right to keep holding onto Lan.. It also adressed trauma in general which is a major thee of the series. It got across exposition and inner monologues that would have taken hours to do without examples, and did it all in a subplot in one episode.
! Yeah it was an "invented" subplot, but it consolodated and explained a ton of material and showcased it in memorable visceral way that just might just pay off later in a number of ways, given there's several later plotlines that development can spill into.
! Folks gotta chill, it was never going yo be a 300 episode 20 year project, changes are gonna happen. (They're gonna be really upset when they condense three or four books of slog down to one season.) Especially since it's a show, there needs to be plots that actually start and end within an episode ocassionally.There's definitely legit complaints and problems to have, and stuff I wish had made it in, but overall they're handling it pretty well. Especially considering this is the arduous "set up all the rules" part of the story.
There's still a few side effects to the dagger that Matt will want to address, but not what you're thinking, no. There is no real way for you to guess where Matt's plot is going without cheating and asking questions. But Matt is Matt so there are lots of fireworks and ladies and dice.
Well I hope Matt gets some sort of ability, the girls are all Aes Sedai, Rand is the dragon reborn, Perrin has his wolf thing going on, Elayne’s brothers are training to become warders, so I hope Matt gets something
Without spoiling, Mat is by far my favorite character and arguably the most crucial and important character in the story and certainly has a lot going for him that's a lot cooler and more useful than being a wolf man or an aes sedai. You will not be disappointed by his "abilities".
Cool cool good to know
Either I'm super daft and missed some obvious subtext in the books or that's a major change they did with Morraine and Siun. Also kinda muddles future story developments but we'll see how it goes I guess.
@TLC:
Either I'm super daft and missed some obvious subtext in the books or that's a major change they did with Morraine and Siun. Also kinda muddles future story developments but we'll see how it goes I guess.
! The books were always very subtle about "pillow friends". But whenever that term was used, that's explicitly a sexual relationship.
! Jordan didn't have a problem with gay relationships but they were really hard to get through publishing at the time so he just sort of had to code it and put it to the side.
! Siuan and Morraine were definitely described as pillow friends though and it was certainly implied. They were close friends who came up in the tower together at the same time, so they spent years together in circumstances that would of course be very bonding.
! LLike when Morraine was taking her test for the shawl.
! > Siuan liked to use tickles at the worst possible moment, sudden pokes in unpleasant places, embarrassing caresses and starling noises.
! I'm slightly bothered by the fact she apparently just travelled? Sangreal I guess and short distance, but still.
! Also, it looks like this might be the point the lost Matt's actor and had to write and edit around it. We'll have to see if he's in the next two episodes at all… but considering all his next plotline launch off stuff is in Tar Valon anyway, no huge flaw keeping hi there... rather than reuniting and breaking up the group constantly at the end of every arc.
! Also, it looks like this might be the point the lost Matt's actor and had to write and edit around it. We'll have to see if he's in the next two episodes at all… but considering all his next plotline launch off stuff is in Tar Valon anyway, no huge flaw keeping hi there... rather than reuniting and breaking up the group constantly at the end of every arc.
! None of them really did anything at the Eye of the World besides Rand (and to a smaller extent Lan and Moraine) anyway.
I'm in the middle of book four now, I've kind of run out of steam so I'm taking a break, but I am enjoying it
! I have no idea where Matt's abilities are going, he can slow down time, he's super lucky, and those beings from the door called him the gambler and the trickster
! I know you guys said that there's multiple magic systems, I'm hoping that means more than just the male and female side of the power, specifically I'm hoping that means both Perrin and Matt's powers get further explained and expanded upon
! also I'm totally sold on the idea of Logain being the one to teach Rand how to use his powers, it just makes sense to me
I know you guys said that there's multiple magic systems, I'm hoping that means more than just the male and female side of the power, specifically I'm hoping that means both Perrin and Matt's powers get further explained and expanded upon
By book 4 you should have seen
Male Power
Female Power
Dark One stuff
REDACTED BECAUSE I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S BEEN MENTIONED YET
Dreamworld
Wolf Stuff (tied into Dreamworld)
Matt Stuff
Other Matt Stuff
Ogier Stuff
Cursed Dagger Stuff
plus I may be forgetting some
And within those you have different factions doing different things, like the Female power is used and wielded VERY differently by a few different groups to the point that even though it has the same basics, it works completely differently.
In the final books Brandon Sanderson even has a couple character find niche use for old abilities that basically make them into entirely new magics by themselves.
Plus a whole bunch of different factions.
he can slow down time,
That is not a power in his skill set. You may have misinterpreted or misunderstood some events, but slowing down time is not one of his skills.
