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You can do better than that.
No I really can't. He literally got away with murder ^_^; So what more proof do you want? It would be my pleasure to go to court in this day and age. Well, in America that is ^o^ Not over here, Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ not over here.
No I really can't. He literally got away with murder ^_^; So what more proof do you want? It would be my pleasure to go to court in this day and age. Well, in America that is ^o^ Not over here, Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ not over here.
I don't get what you mean by that.
No I really can't. He literally got away with murder ^_^; So what more proof do you want? It would be my pleasure to go to court in this day and age. Well, in America that is ^o^ Not over here, Jesus-tap-dancing-Christ not over here.
Pfft, one bad case from a decade ago doesn't prove much, just that that particular case was crap, which we already knew.
Going to court in Japan, that sounds like an adventure. I heard that a number of years ago, if you were in a taxi and the taxi driver injured someone for life, you could be held financially responsible for them the rest of their life, the rationale being that if you hadn't taken a taxi, the taxi would not have hit them and they thus would not have been injured. Is that still a law? What are some other bogus things about court over there?
Speaking of Japan and pedophiles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsutoshi_Shimabukuro
"In 2002, he was arrested and convicted of violating child prostitution laws with five underaged girls, including paying a 16-year-old girl ¥80,000 to have sex. As a result of the arrest, Seikimatsu Leader Den Takeshi! was cancelled by Weekly Shōnen Jump."
Wasn't the reputation of the author of Toriko affected at all by the incident? I mean, he was arrested and all, but are japanese that forgiving compared to americans? I just doubt the guy would have enjoyed of such populairty (Toriko's ranked pretty high in jump) as a comic author after being involved in child prostitution, let alone given the chance of going back to work in such a place with the popularity of Shonen Jump.
…yeah, remind me to stay the hell away from the Midwest.
@Kaimei:
Speaking of Japan and pedophiles
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitsutoshi_Shimabukuro
"In 2002, he was arrested and convicted of violating child prostitution laws with five underaged girls, including paying a 16-year-old girl ¥80,000 to have sex. As a result of the arrest, Seikimatsu Leader Den Takeshi! was cancelled by Weekly Shōnen Jump."
Wasn't the reputation of the author of Toriko affected at all by the incident? I mean, he was arrested and all, but are japanese that forgiving compared to americans? I just doubt the guy would have enjoyed of such populairty (Toriko's ranked pretty high in jump) as a comic author after being involved in child prostitution, let alone given the chance of going back to work in such a place with the popularity of Shonen Jump.
Yeah wel…wtf
I guess ppl really cant live without their JUMP
But even in Japan I think the legal age is 14 :Stp 15....my stomach..
A stunning post by Elric. Might I suggest you research the words 'might' and 'potentially' I used them for a reason so don't blow over them and attempt to make a smartass observation.
I like how you have so much faith in your ability to explain yourself that you feel the need to insult everyone that questions it. Words like 'might' and 'potentially' fit suggestive talk very well. You want people who own lolicrap to undergo an evaluation to determine wether they would rape their granddaughter 20 years from now and need to be put away? What guidelines would you like to see applied? Everyone who didn't buy it for its artistic value has to go, everyone who can't "explain why he likes it", or just everyone who jizzed all over it? All that's suggesting a lot already, thought police comes to mind. And since you don't seem to acknowledge the implications there was another quote that you [Greg]ignored in an attempt to make a smartass retort[/Greg]: Where are the 'mights' in @Greg:
Child porn IS child porn, drawn or otherwise.
? According to you this guy and I don't know how many japanese everyday consumers of Lolikon hentai support the actual rape of children which of course they would have to go to prison for. If anything this ridiculous generalization is trivializing child abuse.
Japan is infamous for forced confessions even from innocent individuals. It helps in some cases but a lot of purely innocent people have gone to jail.
I like how you have so much faith in your ability to explain yourself that you feel the need to insult everyone that questions it.
Don't go there girlfriend. You brought the sarcasm and smarmy emoticon response to quotes instead of even discussing the issue and you know it. Which surprises me coming from you since you know better. I'll give out what I take.
Pfft, one bad case from a decade ago doesn't prove much, just that that particular case was crap, which we already knew.
It doesn't matter what you think of it. And for that matter with that attitude it seems that any other attempts to show what a joke it is would be met with a, "Pfft", so I guess I'll just leave that be. It's how the court systems are today. Just a fact. They rule on feelings not on obstructions like evidence or the Constitution.
Calm down. Words like 'might' and 'potentially' fit suggestive talk very well. You want people who own lolicrap undergo an evaluation to determine wether they should be put away. That's suggesting a lot already. And since you don't seem to understand the implications there was another quote. Where are the 'mights' in "CP is CP wether drawn or not"? According to you this guy and I don't know how many japanese everyday consumers of Lolikon hentai support the actual rape of children which of course they would have to go to prison for. If anything that's trivializing child abuse.
There we go. A real post instead of quips. They don't suggest anything. I would never say what he can or will do. Period. I can offer an opinion based on individuals in the past and known cases where those cases have been true, which is what I'm suggesting is possible.
You want people who own lolicrap undergo an evaluation to determine wether they should be put away.
You want people that own child pornography of any kind to be left unquestioned as if there's nothing wrong with it?
And since you don't seem to understand the implications there was another quote. Where are the 'mights' in "CP is CP wether drawn or not"?
Because there is no 'might' in there. Child pornography is child pornography drawn or otherwise. What is essential to this case is whether it was being kept as appreciation of art, in which case I think is REALLY strange but ultimately not deserving of any prison time, or if it was being purchased for sexual gratification. In which case it's then important to look at what problems the individual might have.
Unless you're suggesting there's nothing wrong with being sexually aroused by child pornography drawn or otherwise.
According to you this guy and I don't know how many japanese everyday consumers of Lolikon hentai support the actual rape of children which of course they would have to go to prison for.
It depends what purpose they read it for. Personally I find the people that draw it disgusting and the individuals that profit and promote its sale horrifying. But you see, it's a much more serious case in Japan because, well, child rape, molestation and murder of the worst kind is sadly a common coincidence here.
Let's flash back as recently as September.
21-year-old Ryo Satsuki murders a 5-year-old and dumps her body naked in the street. Inside his house are, surprise, mounds of animation and manga goods aimed at elementary-aged schoolgirls.
And this is a guy that, at first glance anyway, doesn't even seem to be into child pornography, rather series aimed at his target age.
By the way, someone mentioned, "Oh if he was going to rape someone he would have done it already."
My first girlfriend was raped by her grandfather when she was a child.
Look, if you guys think indulging in child pornography for sexual purposes is healthy and doesn't suggest ANY mental instability that may lead to problems, ok. That's what you believe. But I'm not even asking you to yield to my opinion on that matter.
Simply that instead of screaming bloody murder at the prosecutors, see what they have first. If you don't take a step back and do that you're just going along with a mob mind-set. Enforcers bad! People always right! Sometimes there are bad people that get caught for stupid shit and something that we could never have known about later in life never happens. Of course we never know the other way do we? There's no way to know so how about when law enforcement or the justice system does its job instead of sitting on its ass, you at least listen to what they have to say before burning them at the stake for not clarifying why Hancock was allowed to go to Impel Down.
Wait what?
Hmm, 'kay. I'll try to post my opinion with the stoopid skool inglish I got.
This maybe sounds a little random, but where is the justice if an innocent (I don't know anything about that man, just that behind every fact is often more than it seems. But for now I just assume that there is no fatal incriminating material, besides imported (probably) porn-cointaining manga) is sentenced to 20 years in jail ..
.. when it's not illegal that children like that Hannah Montana-brat are making almost-naked-photos for publicity?
I know, this has nothing to do with that case, but if the government is THAT careful in such things, why not in many many others?
As a young european I can't say much about U.S.-laws, just that some are good and some are crap.
As I said, maybe there is more behind that.
If not - Good luck to the manga-fan from Iowa. Such an adjudgement (?) would be total fail, because there are many men on this planet. And the most of them cannot resist porn and even Lolicon-porn.
Thanks for reading.
.. when it's not illegal that children like that Hannah Montana-brat are making almost-naked-photos for publicity?
I completely agree. I don't think it's fair in any form that it gets away in, but the question is where do you draw three important lines.
One between art and pornography, specifically child pornography which otherwise some might argue is an artform.
One between appreciating art and sexual gratification.
One between a harmless (to others) sexual fascination and one that could potentially harm others.
I would not to contend to draw any of those lines, but I do know that instead of closing my ears to both sides of the story and without knowing all the facts, I would never want to attempt to determine which side this individual is on in any case.
Nobody seemed to give notice to the guy who said "Minority Report" but I think that it was a valid example.
Unless the guy has actually raped, molested, or commited any crime whatsoever, then nobody has any business putting him behind bars.
Let's not get all abstract and too philosophical for our own good here. If we are talking about actual 'justice' and not some argument and sense of righteousness (which may be valid) to save as many people as we can then owning those manga does not constitute a crime.
There are no dead bodies, nobody was harmed. Elric said it earlier, just because you think somebody has the potential to do BAD things then he should be punished is a very twisted idea itself. That's just a load of bullcrap and anybody who says otherwise can go to jail themselves since everybody has the potential to do really bad things.
Unless the guy has actually raped, molested, or commited any crime whatsoever, then nobody has any business putting him behind bars.
If he's mentally sound then I agree. But who's to say prison? Perhaps he needs serious psychiatric help. But the whole, "Well if he hasn't committed anything then that's that.", is absurd. "BUT GREG! SCIENCE FICTION MOVIES ETC!!!!" Certain people showing certain characteristics are more prone to certain acts then others. Should we put everyone behind bars because they might commit a crime? No, I think that's obvious and I don't think anyone is suggesting otherwise. However, at the very least these individuals fitting a certain behavioral pattern should get the help they need BEFORE something happens.
I mean shit, might it not have been a good idea to restrain someone like, oh I dunno, Jim Jones before he 'did' anything?
"Oh but Greg you can't compare the two. We're talking about a manga and that was a cult leader."
No shit, the scale is different. But what I've been trying to say is, how late is too late? Do you act on individuals with these tendencies (and I'm talking big picture, not the man in this case for all we know) after they hurt someone?
"But of course Greg. I mean that would be just mean. Thought police, Minority Report etc."
Tell that to the victims' families.
By subscribing to a non-pro-active law enforcement school of thought, you are enabling and allowing murder, rape, etc. I'm not talking Big Brother coming into your house because you wear your hat backwards, I'm saying individuals that subscribe to certain illegal or mentally unfit life-styles and/or patterns. I mean fuck morality. This is beyond morality and morality is subjective anyway.
Can you tell me that being sexually stimulated by child pornography is a mentally positive experience?
It's just common sense. I'm not even saying lock people up, I'm saying at the very least, get them help!
And again, that's aside my main point which seems to keep getting diverted which is, why not listen to both sides before passing judgement?
Yeah sure, get them help by pointing media attention toward through the charges and the arrest. Hey there's the otaku pedo guy! That would be a lot of help.
From how I see it, if they thought this guy had child rapist tendencies then they could have simply advised him or maybe even gasp force him to go to a shrink or some sort of psychiatric help or whatever you have. There was no need to arrest him and even consider putting him into jail for 20 years.
But Greg! SCIENCE FICTION SHIT! Yeah, it's science fiction, and 1984 is sort of something like that, but these works were examining what it would be like if people were locked up simply because of criminal tendencies and while these works exaggerated those aspects (and the movie adaptation of one starred Tom Cruise), they still make a valid argument and warrants some thinking through. Just because it's fiction does not mean it's totally bullshit.
Let's put it this way, has the guy shown any signs of going after the children and doing nasty things to them? Has he been stalking them or maybe sitting in a playground while rubbing his crotch? Did they find his journal where he wrote his fantasies of the nasty things he might do to children? Does he throw suspicious looks and develop visible bulges on his pants when he sees semi-naked kids? If they have observed most of these then go ahead and lock him up and subject him to serious psychiatric help all you want, I don't want this guy anywhere near my neighborhood.
Yeah sure, get them help by pointing media attention toward through the charges and the arrest. Hey there's the otaku pedo guy! That would be a lot of help.
It doesn't matter, according to posters here the courts are fucked up anyway so why should anyone listen. Not to mention, the people making a media storm of it are ironically the same people trying to help him.
From how I see it, if they thought this guy had child rapist tendencies then they could have simply advised him or maybe even gasp force him to go to a shrink or some sort of psychiatric help or whatever you have.
I concur ^o^
There was no need to arrest him and even consider putting him into jail for 20 years.
For the love of…. Go back to my first and second post. See what I said there regarding my questioning that particular figure and why it's suspicious. For fuck's sake it's like the chapter thread.
But Greg! SCIENCE FICTION SHIT! Yeah, it's science fiction, and 1984 is sort of something like that, but these works were examining what it would be like if people were locked up simply because of criminal tendencies.
So because they said so in the books, it is such. Is that what you're saying? BTW this is really swerving off-track now. We're having a discussion on whether SciFi is applicable to real life because of some writers' opinions?
Let's put it this way, has the guy shown any signs of going after the children and doing nasty things to them? Has he been stalking them or maybe sitting in a playground while rubbing his crotch? Did they find his journal where he wrote his fantasies of the nasty things he might do to children? If they have observed most of these then go ahead and lock him up and subject him to serious psychiatric help. If not, then leave him be.
Do you know the answer to those questions? Do I? No. Which is why….I've said since the beginning.....I just want to know more of what each side has to say and hear the full story. Your failure to recognize the foundation of my thoughts here shows me you're either ignoring it because it makes sense or after having written it in 5-7 different posts now, I simply fail at expressing myself.
It's how the court systems are today. Just a fact. They rule on feelings not on obstructions like evidence or the Constitution.
But Greg!! We have a living Constitution that is empathetic of societies' cultural changes and evolutions!
For fuck's sake it's like the chapter thread.
Bahahahah! :silly:
There's no way to know so how about when law enforcement or the justice system does its job instead of sitting on its ass, you at least listen to what they have to say before burning them at the stake for not clarifying why Hancock was allowed to go to Impel Down.
:happy:
Now I'm afraid of collect volumes of Berserk now…
Now I'm afraid of collect volumes of Berserk now…
I hope you're being sarcastic there :wassat:
This Is The Dumbest Bullshit I Have Ever Heard Of.
We Should Start A Petition
On The Bright Side At Least It wasnt Shotacon:getlost:
I'm sure they'd understand if you explained that the cult is a sort of 'backlash' as a result of the Holy See's pratices, and after being browbeaten and downtrodden they release thier frustration and pent up anger in ritualistic orgies (at least that's how I interpretted it, i'm not saying it's correct).
…Or they could be complete fuckwits and say "Good God! it's satanic porn, you sick bastard!"
Yeah, I'm worried about buying Berserk now. And I'll be pissed if Dark Horse retracts the volumes and edits them. Yes, little Caska gets her shirt ripped revealing her flat-chest before Griffith saves her which leads to her affection for him leading into a bunch of dramatic bullshit later in the series, but so FUCKING WHAT? It's a fantastic series, and everything is done for a reason. Fuck, that one event can pretty much be a big chunk of the basis cause of what of it leaks into character development.
I'm part of the group who believe CHILD PORN AND LOLICON ARE NOT ONE IN THE SAME. Simple fact is, lolicon IS drawn, and while you will discuss that as a lame excuse, drawing lines on a sheet of people IS NOT harming anymore, where in child-porn a real life child IS! If you can't realize that, then I'm sorry, but perhaps you're the one in need of a mental test.
Also, this isn't even about loli? IT'S NOT EVEN CHILDREN?! It's yaoi featuring bishie boys like most manga? This is even more bullshit then! This guy better not get thrown in jail. He's done nothing wrong.
While i'm trying my best to stay on the fence about all the so-called 'child porn', I hope this doesn't develop into a shitstorm.
ΩMEGA PIRATES: ? Members
Captain: Zkaiser
Status: Dejected.
Threat Level: Pink
Goal: Prove the Elemental Haki Theory
What does this have to do with anything? Sound likd a random sympathy anecdote. Though it does tell us that you're biased.
It was in response to the "if they were going to do it, they would have done it already". He was providing first hand evidence that it can happen at anytime, even when you are really old.
He should have said that, then gave the example so that it wouldn't sound like a pot shot at pathos.
ΩMEGA PIRATES: ? Members
Captain: Zkaiser
Status: Dejected.
Threat Level: Pink
Goal: Prove the Elemental Haki Theory
He should have said that, then gave the example so that it wouldn't sound like a pot shot at pathos.
You did read the sentence right before that comment…....right?
You did read the sentence right before that comment…....right?
I read it. I just wasn't able see the implied connection. I knew that the two sentences were linked. I just needed clarification on their relationship.
Yeah, he needed to go. He had the real kind too.
Edit: On second thought I'm not sure if is the same case…:ninja:
Hopefully, Viz doesn't decide to overedit the Amazon Lily arc 'cause of this.
It'll be 2102 before they get that far in the manga. God knows what kind of laws would have passed by then.
Good god, one bullshit court case and you're all screaming "OMG BERSERK WILL GET US KILLED ANIME IS DOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!! LOOK OUT FOR FUTURE LAWS FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS DEAD!!!!!! NOW AND FOREVAH!!!!!!!!"
None of you even know the full details of this case, unless you really think law enforcement releases every detail of every criminal case to the press. And you're especially naive if you think any judge worth his salt is going to give this guy the 20 years, if he's even convicted at all. For this guy to be put in the slammer for this would require the perfect storm of bad luck and stupid people. And if it does happen, it will cause a backlash of monumental proportions that will ensure this will never happen again.
I know many people here are young, a little naive, and ignorant, but damn. This isn't a sci-fi movie, this isn't a totalitarian government, and The Man isn't going to take away the things you like no matter what the lyrics in your favorite rock and rap songs tell you. You're fine. Calm the hell down.
If anyone needs to be locked up for having access to any genre of hentai
it should be for Guro if you think lolicon/shotacon is scrapping the bottom of the pan you haven't seen nothing yet.
Blood and Gore = Okay.
Nudity and Sex = OH GOD, DIE DIE DIE!
That's how most censors and such are. Even when they're mixed, just sex is still considered more sick. Fucked up, eh?
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,24767202-2,00.html
^
That's Australia, but still.
Since they found him guilty, look what they have said:
[EDIT: Wrong case, different one. However, this is what the judge has said in a US Court]
"it is not a required element of any offense under this section that the minor depicted actually exists."
Everyone here is going to jail.
I just read the outcome of the case and apoparently he did have actual child pornography. But in the end, while I am still somewhat annoyed that they included the manga in with the charges, I can see why they would.
Also, one of the three judges in the case actually agreed that the lolicon stuff shouldn't have been part of the charges, though all three unanimously found him guilty.
Full article:
Something for clarification; the child not existing largely refers to faked child porn done by various pornography sites, where an of-age woman will be depicted in an enlarged set (to make her look smaller), and photoshopped to look younger. Faked kiddie porn. Pretty common. The PROTECT Act was put in place largely to deal with this, not lolicon crap.
@Hakuro:
I just read the outcome of the case and apoparently he did have actual child pornography.
That's another case.
That's another case.
Ugh… why must people be convicted of the same crime at the same time? It really is annoying to keep up with...
Tell that to the child he might rape in 20 years. I mean really that was a stupid comment, flat-out.
Yeah, key word 'might' rape. We can't predict future, and thus should not base our justice system on predicting the future. If it the guy does end up being a child rapist, well, we'll just have to deal with it then and throw the guy in jail.
I mean under this new law system your purposing where you can be thrown in jail under the idea you will break a law 20 years down the road what's to stop the government from throwing you in jail for reading One Piece because you might end up being a pirate? Ridiculous right?
As for throwing people in jail for having mental illnesses. No, I don't agree with that either. Lol thoughtcrime, and yes perhaps those people should get help, but until they break a law and cause harm against someone else, no I don't think they should be thrown in jail. Opening up our judicial system to throwing people in jail because of what's going on in their brain, or what they may do twenty years down the road without actually, you know, breaking any laws is quite open to abuse.
Anyways it seems the guy had kiddy porn, which IS illegal, which means he did break the law, and shall be rotting away in jail for however long he's been put in there.
I'm sure the child that gets raped would just love your idea there, Magetto.
"Well, kid, you wouldn'tve gotten your asshole torn asunder by that large man if we locked him up back then, buuuuuuut we wanted to be fair to him. I'm sure you understand. Now quit crying, this ain't a Sci-Fi movie!"
My deviantART|Project A.F.T.E.R.|My YouTube|Money and Power|AP Art Topic
Originally Posted by Buccaneer
Celine Dion post in the MK thread. I wish I could neg you.
That logic is bullshit and you know it. You can't run a legal system with "could have".
My wife is cheating on me so I could kill her.
I'm dead-broke so I could kill my father for his inheritance.
A hot chick is living next door so I could go rape her.
Are you going to arrest all these people? There's nothing wrong with having criminal impulses as long as you don't act on them. If people started getting sent to jail for just thinking about doing bad things, we'll have a bunch of innocent people sitting in jail for something they would have never actually done. True, that there will be people that act out on these impulses but you can't separate them. Neither system is perfect but it's better to arrest a guilty criminal then an innocent citizen(Mind you, innocent people get arrested anyway hence the imperfection).
The large majority of child molesters are people with a sexual disorder that needs to be treated by a sex-specific therapist from early on (puberty). Sadly most of them have their first victim in their teens so for the police acting after the fact is the norm and they're happy if crimes are reported at all.
I'm sure the child that gets raped would just love your idea there, Magetto.
"Well, kid, you wouldn'tve gotten your asshole torn asunder by that large man if we locked him up back then, buuuuuuut we wanted to be fair to him. I'm sure you understand. Now quit crying, this ain't a Sci-Fi movie!"
How do you know that kid would be raped in the first place? Oh wait, you don't. There's as much chance as the person never putting a hand on a kid than raping them. You can't predict something like this unless you actual proof of the person planning to do it, and reading lolicon books isn't proof that the person will oh-my-god tear some child's asshole apart 20 years down the road.
Such a justice giving out judgments on "what if" scenarios literally means that everyone is a criminal. Why? Because they could break a law in the future. No one would be innocent in such a system, and would mean anyone could get sent to jail for any old reason. Hey that political group there strongly disagrees with the policies of the current President and government, thus they could preform an assassination or political coup in the future, so let's throw them in jail or better yet execute them for treason!
Besides, even with such a legal system it wont stop child rapists, murders, or crime at all.
Can we just lock this thread and talk about something more pleasant, honestly? Half of you are "Just because he has X drawings but no proof of molesting/raping anyone doesn't mean he won't do it in the future" and the other half are "He'll definitely do it in the future". Neither side seems willing to budge so the argument is in a stalemate. And, honestly, It doesn't matter what the outcome is. Unless it's appealed to the Supreme Court level and the "Almighty Constitution" is invoked, nothing will change, whether he goes to jail or not. Manga sales won't be banned, nuclear bombs won't be dropped, and President Eisenhower won't rise from the grave to fight Bill Cosby in a cage match. For the most part, things will still be the same.
@Magetto
There's no point arguing with these people. They think that putting people in jail because of the possibility that they will commit a crime is the right thing to do. "Pro-active" is what they call it. But their arguments so far have not been convincing, such a system is UNFAIR, QUESTIONABLE, and bordering on the INSANE. It's hard to believe that there are people who claim to be open-minded and supporters of freedom and justice would actually advocate such a system. How do we know that the person with a tendency to commit a crime will actually do it?
Anyway, if that guy in the case (whatever case that was since it seems there are plenty going on around the world, XD) actually had porn then I've got no qualms about him going to jail, but still, 20 years?
@Greg
Earlier in the discussion, you always pointed out that you wanted to know more details first and the people rushing to the defense of the guy were not thinking too straight, being driven by fanaticism. Let me clarify that nobody ever said (or at least I didn't) that the guy should not go to jail no matter what, they merely pointed out that if the reason of his incarceration was the possesion of some lolicon (don't really know what that is) then the case was pure hogwash.
Look, I don't think anybody would argue with you if you said the guy should rot in prison for having a huge collection of p*rn so don't veer the discussion towards that. Let's just agree to agree that he should go in jail if he had other illegal materials and then focus the discussion on whether possession of manga is sufficient grounds for incarceration because it hints toward a possibility that the guy would rape some kiddies.
@Fire Fist:
Half of you are "Just because he has X drawings but no proof of molesting/raping anyone doesn't mean he won't do it in the future" and the other half are "He'll definitely do it in the future".
Notice how the second argument implies that people should be locked up based on assumptions.
Anyway, this is probably my last post in this thread. As Fire Fist said, there's not a lot we can do about it (especially me, not living in the US and all) and the discussion has become extremely repetitive of which I am also part to blame.
Too lazy to make a decent sig
@Elric
Earlier in the discussion, you always pointed out that you wanted to know more details first and the people rushing to the defense of the guy were not thinking too straight, being driven by fanaticism.
I did not. You're thinking about Greg. Btw I think he's residing in the country that treats “Used Schoolgirl Panties” as a valuable commodity so we should take that into account and show some compassion.
^
Oops, sorry. I was a little groggy when typing my last post. I'll correct it after I post this.
Well, I feel I should offer my view on this. First however, three things that I think about crime and justice.
1. There should be no victimless crimes. If there is no victim, then the person hasn't done anything I would consider a crime.
2. The justice system should exist to provide consequences for trying to commit a crime, not preventing the crime in question.
3. If I was given the choice between a justice system that was more likely to let the guilty go free and a justice system that was more likely to punish an innocent, I would choose the former every time.
A couple of you may be familiar with how violence in video games has been treated. If not, I would suggest looking Jack Thompson up on Wikipedia. He tried to have Grand Theft Auto III and other violent video games banned by claiming that they were murder simulators and that they were responsible for various school shootings (because the people responsible for those shootings had those games).
Now, it may just be because I have a weird point of view, but I can't see much of a difference between why they are saying that lolicon should be illegal and why they were saying that violent video games should be illegal. They tell us it is to prevent a child from being raped or a guy from going on a killing spree, but then, they go against how I think the justice system should work. Since it is an attempt at preventing a crime, it would go against number 2 above. So I feel that making those things illegal to prevent child abuse is wrong. Once you remove that reason, there becomes the problem of there being no victim either, and thus it wouldn't be a crime according to number 1 above.
That's all I have to say on the subject this topic deals with. I've explained why I think it's wrong for lolicon to be illegal by demonstrating how it goes against my sense of justice. The only thing left to explain would seem to be my sense of justice, but that explanation seems a bit too off topic.
Well, maybe I can think of one other thing to say. You might find http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolicon#United_States interesting.
