Kuma the "ultimate" nakama

blue-san

One of the things I have been thinking about for a long time.
We know Kuma with his DF can deflect all kinds of things perhaps even some of we are yet to learn.
My question and thought is…

If Kuma can deflect the fatigue from a person, isnt he some kind of dream come true for any Captain to have in his crew. He could be there deflecting fatigue non stop making any force unstoppable...

Example:
Thiller Bark - Luffy attacks Moria he goes all out and as soon as he is starting to become more and more beaten and wearing down Kuma jumps in deflects and Luffy resumes while Moria himself is in the same state...
Actually All the strawhats would be in top condition non stop...

Now since this seems a bit too much and an overkill (at least for me) Could it be some trick, like for example that if he deflefcts fatigue he cant just let it float in the air, send it to the ocean or something like that but instead he has to "give" it to someone.
Now if that would mean he could just deflect fatigue from luffy and throw it at moria that would be even worse and the guy would then just be in my eyes the ultimate nakama...
So perhaps the last condition is that someone MUST ACCEPT the fatigue deflected for the "condition" of its usage to be met....in that case all the things above about how great he would have been for nakama fall off...(meaning he would still be great but not in the terms one would thought at first glance)

So your thoughts?

Ivotas

This theory is related to the theory we've recently had in the Brook's DF thread, where the question was if Brook could revive other people aswell. Though reviving dead and "recharging" energy aren't exactly the same thing, they both based on the concept to return a person to a stage of perfect health and 100% power.

Thus said it always depends on the storyteller if such a thing is an ultimate asset or simply a necessary thing in order to survive in the respective fictional world. The perfect example for that would be DragonBall which uses both concepts, the recharging and the revival. Recharging through those magic beans and revival through the Dragonballs. Thus said, as handy as they came in it's not like the antagonists fell to the powers of beans and balls. Conclusion it could become an ultimate asset, but not necessarily.

smurfx

you can deflect the fatigue but you would still be low on energy. kuma doesn't do anything to give you back the energy you've lost.

lightcrowler

To be honest,we still know little about the parameters of Kuma's DF abilities.
There must be a drawback to this deflecting all attacks and fatigue from someone's body,though the Logia's are also overhaxed.
I think all DF have somekind of weakness,you only must find it to make it less powerfull.

Vash The Stampede

@smurfx:

you can deflect the fatigue but you would still be low on energy. kuma doesn't do anything to give you back the energy you've lost.

do we have proof on this, or are you just assuming it? Luffy woke up free from fatigue, and I don't think he was hungering for immediate meat, so energy could have been replenished, though luffy was still asleep form the initial pain and fatigue.

Duuffie

I think the fact taht Kuma can teleport people alone is a good enough reason for, 'ultimate' nakama.

Abel

im wondering… can he teleport BB

Ivotas

Should be possible. Teach needs to take a full hit of a DF attack in order to absorb the ability. Though if Teach would ever fight him, he rather take any of the other paw attacks in order to do so.

Abel

but teach df can nullify other df user just by touching the other df user

Ivotas

Didn't he have to take a taste of the ability first? I always interpreted it like this since he said that it is a great risk to take such hits but the gains of that risk are worth it.

Otherwise he'd be a retard to take those such attacks since he could instead try to dodge them and touch his opponent without being hit.

Abel

emm… im not really sure abt that...i need to review it back,wat teach df can do...

Abel

from my review… teach just need to hold the df user to nullify them... no need to take a taste of the ability first..

Ivotas

The thing I'm having a problem with is the following statement from Blackbeard:

"My body sucks in and absorbs all pains greater than normal! But in exchange for that heightened risk, I also gained the power to suck in one MORE thing!!!"

The one more thing is the ability of DF users. So it means the absorbing of attacks and taking of pains is connected to this skill. If that wouldn't be the case then Oda could have easily given this ability the same properties all Logias have, meaning that he could let attacks pass right through him. Apparently that's not the case.

Vanessa

I actually wrote about that a little while back Ivotas. Here's the post if you feel like reading it and see what you think.

There's a little bit more in the page before that, but this one should cover my general view on it.

Ivotas

That's exactly how I take it too. That AND his statement I quoted above make me think that this is all connected to the ability of neutralising DF abilities. Of course he needs to touch them too.

But if would only be the touching component, then there'd be zero need for him to take attacks that are far more painful for him then anybody else in the OP world. He could either dodge them OR as I said Oda could have given this fruit the same properties of all the other Logias, meaning he could turn into his element and let everything phase through him.

Vanessa

Maybe since Teach is a Gravity Man now his Yami Fruit powers are constantly canceling themselves out from within?

Since Apoo's attack on Borsalino set in stone, that a logia user has literally become their element permanently(finally, although the attack on Ener by Kamakiri back in Skypeia should have been enough).

In Teach's case, it "sucks in" that ability to phase attacks through while still doing what my linked post in my former post entails.

Mugiwara_no_Ice

I don't quite understand your thoughts here Ivotas.

Do you say BB has to take a blow from a DF user to be able to nullify his powers??
If that is what you mean then I disagree, cause how do you describe a blow from let's say a paramecia (like luffy) or a zoan - is this blow df related or just a blow like any non-df user could give.

My take on this is that BB can nullify df powers by only touching the guy and in return his Logia abilty doesn't give him the abilty to let attacks pass him by, whether or not these attacks comes from df users or non-df users.

Mugiwara Kaizoku

there simply is no passing through with gravity, the nature of this power itself is taking everything in rather than letting it pass through. it's a little far fetched but when you are sucked into a black hole you'll never be able to come out again (or in this case pass through) and when you're inside of a black hole you are not gone but you still exist in some form as a highly compressed substance (don't know how to express this any better but i hope you get what i'm saying) so i don't think that anything will ever be able to pass through the power of gravity/darkness. though BB also has the ability to release whatever he sucked in before, which is a must for him since otherwise he would be using his ability permanantly thus draining his power constantly (f.e. when he absorbed this whole town. it's just balast to keep that inside).

however that statement from Teach also confuses me greatly. i don't know if this is the result of the various translations or if oda stated this unclear to keep us literally in the dark but i can't make total sense to this myself.

i think he has to get a taste of other devil fruit powers to take their ability away when touching them and i also think he has to perform a "controlled touch" (maybe grabing them with his hands only) to take abilities away.
it would be pretty bad when you kick blackbeard in his butt and then you get stuck in his (black) hole + lose your ability… real bad in many many ways

Ivotas

@Mugiwara_no_Ice:

Do you say BB has to take a blow from a DF user to be able to nullify his powers??

It's not what I say, it's what Teach himself says. Read the part I quoted above that is his statement.

If that is what you mean then I disagree, cause how do you describe a blow from let's say a paramecia (like luffy) or a zoan - is this blow df related or just a blow like any non-df user could give.

I understand what you say but the point remains that Teach intentionally choses to take the attacks. I'll try to explain it going step by step.

1. As a logia you could actually let attacks phase through you. But Oda didn't give the Yami Fruit this property.
2. Since 1. doesn't work the only other way to avoid being hit by an attack is to simply dodge it.
3. Teach says that for the risk of taking more pain (which pretty much is the reaction of a direct hit) he gains the ability to neutralize DF abilities. That's his own words.

The conclusion is that since Teach didn't chose neither 1 nor 2 he simply wanted to be hit by Ace's attacks. And if you consider his reasoning (3) it means he has to take an attack in order for his ability to function.

My take on this is that BB can nullify df powers by only touching the guy and in return his Logia abilty doesn't give him the abilty to let attacks pass him by, whether or not these attacks comes from df users or non-df users.

That's exactly where I disagree. If that'd be the case then there'd be no reason for him to let Ace hit him aswell as explaining that he has gains a great power from the risk of being hit. Oda could have avoided the entire situation by simply giving his fruit the untouchable component of all logias. But he didn't and he even explained why, which can be summarized as "if you hit me, I can hit you too".

Splattel

I believe he was talking about being willing to take the risk of getting hit and taking increased damage for the ability to nullify a DF. Not that they were connected in any way. Him just standing there letting Ace hit him was most likely just a story point to demonstrate that he could still be hit despite being a logia, that he'd take extra damage and that he could absorb the attack, as seen by the darkness swallowing the fire.

It's gravity, the power to pull everything in, as BB himself said. Having to take a hit to be able to pull their power in really makes no sense at all in that aspect.

Coookie

@Ivotas:

It's not what I say, it's what Teach himself says. Read the part I quoted above that is his statement.

I understand what you say but the point remains that Teach intentionally choses to take the attacks. I'll try to explain it going step by step.

1. As a logia you could actually let attacks phase through you. But Oda didn't give the Yami Fruit this property.
2. Since 1. doesn't work the only other way to avoid being hit by an attack is to simply dodge it.
3. Teach says that for the risk of taking more pain (which pretty much is the reaction of a direct hit) he gains the ability to neutralize DF abilities. That's his own words.

The conclusion is that since Teach didn't chose neither 1 nor 2 he simply wanted to be hit by Ace's attacks. And if you consider his reasoning (3) it means he has to take an attack in order for his ability to function.

That's exactly where I disagree. If that'd be the case then there'd be no reason for him to let Ace hit him aswell as explaining that he has gains a great power from the risk of being hit. Oda could have avoided the entire situation by simply giving his fruit the untouchable component of all logias. But he didn't and he even explained why, which can be summarized as "if you hit me, I can hit you too".

I think you're misunderstanding Teach's statement.

Unlike the rest of you, I can't just shrug off attacks!
My body sucks in and absorbs all pains greater than normal!
But in exchange for that heightened risk, I also gained the power to suck in one MORE thing!!!

First, I think he can't let attacks pass him by like every Logia should be able to since his power is literally gravity. Nothing can pass black holes, not even light. So for him, it is naturally impossible to transform into his element to avoid the enemy's attack this way.
Second, I think just because he doesn't dodge the enemy's attack does not mean that he is taking them willingly.

! >!

! >!
He didn't see the attacks coming or too late so there was no way to dodge them.
! >!

In this case he saw it coming but he didn't dodge it because he had no time to anymore or because he didn't want to stop his attack.
Additionally, he took Ace's attacks more than only once. If Teach only needs to be hit once to gain the power to negate the enemy's powers then there would be no need to be hit again and again.

(But shouldn't this belong into another thread? :ninja:)

Sanjislollypop

Kuma the ultimate nakama?
No wai, that guy is the biggest party-pooper around, he never even smiles.

Ivotas

@Splattel:

I believe he was talking about being willing to take the risk of getting hit and taking increased damage for the ability to nullify a DF. Not that they were connected in any way. Him just standing there letting Ace hit him was most likely just a story point to demonstrate that he could still be hit despite being a logia, that he'd take extra damage and that he could absorb the attack, as seen by the darkness swallowing the fire.

You know, that's is such a simplistic answer that it would actually exactly be the case. No seriously, now that you say it I think you've got a point there. My main gribe was that he didn't attempt to dodge the attack. But that could really be only an artistic method to show the extent of Teach's physical power.

Thanks for the input guys.^^

Pipio

If kuma used his ability to remove fatigue from, it wouldnt heal the damage you already recieved. He cant reverse blood lost, shattered bones or damaged muscles, all he can do is act like morphine, he doesnt make you feel the pain anymore since its out of your system but the damage is still there.

So kuma's ability in that aspect is a double edge sword, you could use him to make your crew fight longer past the point your body says "hey! its time for a rest so you dont die", But while your fighting harder your getting closer to death.

That aside, kuma would still be an amazing crew mate for the fact he can more instantly and get rid of weak enemies in an instant without killing them.

Vanessa

@Ivotas:

You know, that's is such a simplistic answer that it would actually exactly be the case. No seriously, now that you say it I think you've got a point there. My main gribe was that he didn't attempt to dodge the attack. But that could really be only an artistic method to show the extent of Teach's physical power.

Thanks for the input guys.^^

Oh that was your issue regarding that? I thought you were referring to effects the Yami Fruit might have given. I thought it was obvious Teach wasn't shown dodging Ace's attacks so Oda can show us the difference in strength between them.

I'm sure we'll see Teach move around and dodge stuff in his fight with Newgate.

Yonkou3

@Coookie:

I think you're misunderstanding Teach's statement.
First, I think he can't let attacks pass him by like every Logia should be able to since his power is literally gravity. Nothing can pass black holes, not even light. So for him, it is naturally impossible to transform into his element to avoid the enemy's attack this way.
Second, I think just because he doesn't dodge the enemy's attack does not mean that he is taking them willingly.

! >! [qimg]http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/One-Piece/440/016.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/One-Piece/440/017.jpg[/qimg]
! >! [qimg]http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/One-Piece/441/008.jpg[/qimg]
He didn't see the attacks coming or too late so there was no way to dodge them.
! >! [qimg]http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/One-Piece/441/012.jpg[/qimg]
[qimg]http://dl01.mangashare.com/manga/One-Piece/441/013.jpg[/qimg]
In this case he saw it coming but he didn't dodge it because he had no time to anymore or because he didn't want to stop his attack.
Additionally, he took Ace's attacks more than only once. If Teach only needs to be hit once to gain the power to negate the enemy's powers then there would be no need to be hit again and again.

(But shouldn't this belong into another thread? :ninja:)

Thank you. Can't believe no one pointed this out in a whole page. You guys should really rewatch a fight when u start talking about it. And where's the love for Ace? He's stronger than luffy for gods sake!

Ivotas

@Vanessa:

Oh that was your issue regarding that? I thought you were referring to effects the Yami Fruit might have given. I thought it was obvious Teach wasn't shown dodging Ace's attacks so Oda can show us the difference in strength between them.

Yeah, that was my main issue. I mean if he would have tried to dodge the attacks, then everything else what was brought up by the people here would have been my guess also. But apparently I was too much focused on battle tactics then on artistic intention when I thought about why Teach didn't dodge. Well, sometimes you don't see the forest because of too many tree's (don't know if such a saying exists in english but I roughly transleted it from a german saying).^^

I'm sure we'll see Teach move around and dodge stuff in his fight with Newgate.

If he doesn't he's either a) really an idiot or b) much more powerful then I expected.