So you also assume that Roger had no territories like WB?
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@BananaHammock:
You don't get it. Territories didn't mean shit to Roger. He was the greatest, strongest and most feared pirate of his time. Where did he need territories when he could go wherever he wanted? Plus like Luffy said (and to understand this point, I need to add that many people have said how he and Roger have same personalities) he doesn't want to rule anything. That's probably how Roger felt too. But you know what, that's exactly why he was called the ruler and the king.
The only one who called him a ruler was you. No, he never ruled. That is fact, whether or not because he didn't want to rule.
He wasn't a ruler. Because he didn't want to be one.
Note that WB needed no territories too, but he claim an island to be his territories to protect the people living on it, by the power of his name.
@BananaHammock:
He could do whatever he wanted and go wherever he wanted.
That is not definition of a ruler. And it's not necessarily to be a ruler to accomplish that.
Doing what you want is the spirit of One Piece, and the message isn't only for those with top ability.
@BananaHammock:
But you know what, that's exactly why he was called the ruler and the king. He could do whatever he wanted and go wherever he wanted.
LOL, I think you forgot something. Roger began to be called PK after he went to Raftel, but he also disbanded his crew shortly after he went to Raftel. You know what that means?
Roger was called PK because he reached Raftel, which was consider impossible, that is all.
Because he didn't have time. He was terminally ill. And guess what? He did do everything that was possible to him. With his last words, Roger have made sure that WG is going down.
Plus many have said, including WB, that Roger was waiting someone. Maybe his own son, maybe someone with D on his name. I wouldn't be surprised if it comes up that Roger wasn't meant to be the one to bring down WG and that he knew it.
Yup, we all agree that Roger wanted to put an end to WG and did all he is able to do. But why? Why did he want to bring down the WG? Because the government is a threat to pirates like him? No. Any government is a threat to criminals. The WG was corrupted, and the one who suffer from that the most is people of the world. A pirate king could continue to be king of pirates, continue to be the freest man, without destroying WG. But he chose to fight it. Because he cared for the people of the world (or at least I think that is a possible explanation, otherwise, what is your reason to overthrow a corrupted government?) But then, at the end of his life, he created an era that has brought misery to people of the world. But he had no other choices. Because he is just a pirate, an incredibly famous one. That's all he could do as a famous pirate. With his strength, his ability, and even his terminal illness, there sure would be many other method to bring down Wg is he wasn't an infamous Pirate. He was inclined to do it. There sure were many conflicts inside him as he made this decision. And you can say, his joy over adventure and freedom as a pirate would conflict with his desire to take down WG to take the world a better place. He was at so much liberty in this aspect. (Assuming that wanting a better world is the reason to take down the WG)
"Ahahahahaha people of the world, enjoy being pillaged, raped, kidnapped by the pirates that set sail to the sea for my treasure". Did he want that?
With the current plotline, I think we can agree that the WG will be overthrown in the future. And I can see that it will be Dragon and his revolutionary army who will do that, and may take over the wrold after that, maybe with the help of Luffy. Only men like Dragon can create a better system, a proper governing, an appropriate order for the world , not a pirate like Luffy or Roger. Yes, asssuming that Roger wasn't ill, he would be able to do alot, maybe he could kill the Gorosei and the Tenryuubito, whatsoever, but as a incredibly infamous pirate, he wouldn't be able to create a better order after that, he couldn't handle something so politically complicated. And there would be just chaos, and wars between countries and countries, and there might be even many deaths the current pirate era. Nope, even a Pirate King (at full strength and no illness) can't do everything he wanted to do (Assuming that wanting a better world is the reason to take down the WG), or at least he thought so (because he seemed to not know the presence of someone like Dragon to entrust his secret) which is what matters, regarding freedom.
@BananaHammock:
HE. DIDN'T. CARE. ABOUT. THE. DANGER. He liked fights, get this to your head. And thats what matters. Go read that chapter again where Shiki attacks Roger, does he look unhappy or sad or angered? If the man could destroy entire nations armies to protect his crew I doubt he cared about getting into fights.
Yeah he got mad when people talk bad about his crew. He was being mad. Sure, being mad is not a pleasant feeling. Did he want that? No. I don't think he enjoyed being mad and destroying fodders that much. But people talking bad about him and his crew was natural because they are freaking pirates. There is no absolute freedom. "Hey people, don't talk bad about my crew, because I am King and I do whatever the fuck I want." If he ran out of luck and some of his crew got killed, he couldn't blame anyone for he chose for himself the path of a pirate. That is when I let him weigh what is more important, the enjoyment in fighting or being with the ones he loved?
I doubt he even had fun fighting those had no chance against him (I bet he prefer to fight opponent of his level), but it's inevitable for him to fight and kill his chasers, endlessly, because of his fame.
He was inclined to kill because he wasn't at liberty to ask commoners to be nice to a freaking pirate crew.
@BananaHammock:
his son found happiness in the end
Roger planned that?
Yes Roger was unable to be loved by his son and what he did brought a life to his son, but not a very happy one. It was Whitebeard and co. who brought that happy life to Ace.
@BananaHammock:
and in the end Ace found happiness .And without his words to Garp, Ace with his mom would've died.
That doesn't mean he couldn't bring a better life to Ace as a going-to-die father. It is his fame (as a pirate) that prevented him from doing so.
If Roger wasn't that infamous, he would be freer.
Not that any cool lines Luffy said is philosophically true. He is still a kid and One Piece is a children comic book.
Ah, BTW, Tom was executed. God blesses him. And according to Moria, pretty much all people related to Roger were executed.
http://haven-reader.net/index.php?mode=view&series=One+Piece&chapter=Chapter+551&page=3&next=true
"I want to be famous!" Is there something wrong with this? One Piece isn't a shallow manga with main characters blindedly chasing after fame, and when they want fame, it is because of another reason, usually relationship. Zoro wants Kuina in heaven to hear his name, Ace realized the desire for fame he expressed outside is just a cover for his inner desire of being loved, etc.
My point's that Roger had freedom, but not the best freedom. The tittle as a pirate, a pirate king, make him inclined to do many things he doesn't really want to. The difference is Luffy wants to be famous because he wants to say to Shanks that he is doing good, because he want to be recognized by Shanks.
And I don't care if this isn't the right thread. When you say stuff like 'but deep down Roger wasn't really free' or that his life sucked I'm going to respond.
And you know what, I'm pretty much destroying you right now.
Yup. I don't want to destroy anyone. I came to Greg's thread to bring contributive discussion and constructive opinions. If you enjoy being winner that much, fine. But you are not destroying me by winning an internet argument over a children comic book.
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