So the queen gives us another example of Haki being something you can just be born with.
General 'Haki' Discussion
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Jacoobus@
Are you hit in the head ? How could you assume that Akainu Used CoO to sense The WB pirates coming Just Cause he twitched his ear ?
In that case, the Marines Fodder can also use CoO since Heard the Sound Bubles caused by the Coated ships as well :! [qimg]http://9.p.s.mfcdn.net/store/manga/106/56-551.0/compressed/sone_piece_551_binktopia_v2.15.jpg[/qimg]
I kinda looked at it like kizaru akainu and akoji all sensed WB with CoO (little lines comming out of their heads) and then everyone could hear the bubbles (ear twich in following panals) which caught everyone else up to speed
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Theory: The each type of Haki must be acquired differently. Haoushoku (CoC) Haki is something that one has to be born with, because it isn't trained. But Kenbunshoku (CoO) Haki, apparently, can both be innate and trained. I'm going to assume that Busoushoku (CoA) Haki is only trained. This discrepancy is caused by innate personality.
As I recall each character with Haki, I remember who they are, and attribute their Haki acquisition to either training or nature. As Rayleigh stated, and I believe his words, CoC cannot be trained, but increases strength as the character becomes stronger. However, evidently, CoO and CoA can be trained. Mantra from the Sky Islands are CoO and apparently can be learned through meditation, that's why CoO users stay calm to use it. However, there are people like Aisa and Otohime, who can just hear others thoughts and feelings, and are ironically very sentimental, and they don't use meditation. As for CoA, we have yet to see someone who uses it but doesn't train, exercise, or fight.
Thus, I will attribute each Haki type to 3 personality types: CoC -> Courageous/Bold/Daring, CoO -> Kind/Compassionate/Understanding, CoA -> Tough/Enduring/Persevering. CoC users all seemingly lack fear or just resolve fears quickly. Natural CoO users easily feel empathy and sympathy for suffering, and thus are very kind people. Trained CoO users don't have to be kind, in fact the Sky Priests were complete jerks, but they must be calm and composed, rational so to speak. CoA users all endure battles and are obviously strong and tough.
I think CoC cannot be trained because it's power is based on the personality. CoC users just let nothing hold them down. CoO can be learned or natural because it is based on awareness and understanding. Whether CoO users get it naturally or training depends on their degree of kindness, but kindness is not needed to use it. CoA users must acquire it from pain and hard effort because it is an aspect of adaptation to difficulty, and the power is based on endurance and fortitude.
In My Opinion: A person with all 3 affinities will be a near-ludicrous godly superpower, having CoC and CoO naturally, and obtaining CoA easily from competition and survival. Luffy isn't this guy, he has weaknesses. On the other hand, the cowardly, stupid, lazy, asshole will have no Haki whatsoever, and unfortunately, resorts to DF powers for strength. Several of these show up in the manga, with the latest incarnation as Caribou. Blackbeard is one of these, too, but he's special in that he has a unique body and makes up for no Haki by absorbing multiple DFs, which adds to his character as a disgusting abomination.
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haven't seen enough or which is not fully revealed. Same with blackbeard's body, Doflamingo's power etc.
I know it hasn't been stated yet in the manga but I'm pretty sure Dofla's powers are due to a Devil Fruit.
In the volume 25, someone ( can't remember wether it was Tsuru or Sengoku ) called Doflamingo and Kuma " Water banished ". And since we already know that Kuma has a Devil Fruit for sure, that's maybe a hint that Doflamingo has one too.
Again, I don't have the original volume, just scanlation of it so it may due to translation error. -
Doesn't sound familiar, I don't think we ever were told anything about their Devil Fruits, aside from Kuma's later on.
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Yeah, I don't exactly remember a statement like that anytime in the series at all, actually, although it's not entirely improbable. It's probably due to some kind of translation error, though, most likely; however, that doesn't make the fact that Doflamingo has a Devil's Fruit any the less likely, since Oda himself has said that all 'supernaturally-related' abilities and/or capabilities will be due to the power of a DF, unless it's Haki, Seastone, or some other miscellaneous subject of exception. Whatever the case, though, the main question should be, "What kind of fruit does Doflamingo have.?", if you ask me.
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I thought about the string Df theory, but wouldn't Doflamingo be able to swing people around in the air as well if he had a line on them? Maybe he can and we just haven't seen it, but it could be something else.
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The thing about Donflamingo is similar to Kizaru and Mihawk. They are some of the strongest people in the world…and really don't seem to use their power in extreme situations. For Kizaru and Donflamingo, I think this goes back to the reccuring theme that any power will be handled differently based on the user, and that the fruit doesn't give power, the person does. Kizaru and Donflamingo could have dominated in the war, instead Kizaru was lazy, and seemed to be enjoying himself by annoying the Pirates, while Don seemed to just sit around, wanting to see how things played out over time without his intervention.
And Mihawks just to cool to care.
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@mdmartin101:
The thing about Donflamingo is similar to Kizaru and Mihawk. They are some of the strongest people in the world…and really don't seem to use their power in extreme situations. For Kizaru and Donflamingo, I think this goes back to the reccuring theme that any power will be handled differently based on the user, and that the fruit doesn't give power, the person does. Kizaru and Donflamingo could have dominated in the war, instead Kizaru was lazy, and seemed to be enjoying himself by annoying the Pirates, while Don seemed to just sit around, wanting to see how things played out over time without his intervention.
And Mihawks just to cool to care.
I'm a bit curious as to why Kizaru did not seem to dominate in the war, especially since Whitebeard tried (unsuccessfully) to hit him, and he took down Marco.
Mihawk didn't seem to do much after Vista held him off, so I'd agree there. Doflamingo didn't do much, period. He obstructed the pirates somewhat, but he was really fooling around. But the Shichibukai didn't need to fight seriously, so it doesn't matter.
BTW, why no comment on my theory? Too difficult to break apart? I doubt it's flawless, but I can't find any counterarguments either. But there's no praise either, so I feel ignored.
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I'm a bit curious as to why Kizaru did not seem to dominate in the war, especially since Whitebeard tried (unsuccessfully) to hit him, and he took down Marco.
Mihawk didn't seem to do much after Vista held him off, so I'd agree there. Doflamingo didn't do much, period. He obstructed the pirates somewhat, but he was really fooling around. But the Shichibukai didn't need to fight seriously, so it doesn't matter.
BTW, why no comment on my theory? Too difficult to break apart? I doubt it's flawless, but I can't find any counterarguments either. But there's no praise either, so I feel ignored.
I wouldn't say WB was unsuccessful at hitting him depending on how you look at it. He definitely stopped him from going after Luffy by causing an interference with his haki slash like rayleigh did.
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Finally! Took some time but finally got through the whole thread
It was nice reading when I already knew when and what would be revealed later in the manga 
Some arguments were outright hilarious to read 
and some were really interesting discussions.There was quite a lot of discussing about the fact that how Aisa could have CoO at so young age. And I found only one comment regarding that maybe something happened to her as a child and awakened it like happened with Coby during the war. I just wanted to point out that I don't remember her having parents so it might be that losing her family was tragic enough event to awaken the underlying ability of mantra. Edit: Ah, nevermind, the chapter 621 confirms you can have it since birth.
WB slicing Borsalino was pretty big topic at one point and though I don't want to argue whether WB used haki or not I wanted to ask why would it be so unreasonable for WB to stop Kizaru? If you think that light beam travels from point A to point B and you put something in its path it obviously stops there. Why couldn't it be just that happening when WB used his bisento?
And about the Ace and haki thing I have to say I was personally quite disappointed when it was revealed in the flashback that Ace had CoC. I think he was hyped enough with being Gol D. Roger's son, WB's division commander, asked to join the shichibukai and what else. But I guess that doesn't really matter anymore him being dead and all…
Don't know if this has any real importance... But in the case where Akainu killed Ace, are people meaning that lava was a natural weakness to fire logia, same as water to Croc and rubber to Ener, when saying that lava smothers fire? Or is it only an attempt to logically explain why Akainu could kill Ace without using the natural weakness against him? Personally I could accept that lava was a natural weakness to fire.
@I:
I feel the need to ask how Akainu could possibly know for sure that his was the superior logia if he'd never fought Ace prior to that moment, and the fruit couldn't have existed any earlier than 50 years prior to Ace eating it? Akainu doesn't appear to be over 50, so his chances of having encountered the fire fruit previously seem pretty slim.
Don't know where you got that 50 years, have I missed something? But Ace didn't have his fruit powers when he left and started his pirating days so wouldn't it be theoretically possible that Akainu fought someone with fire logia even only 5 years ago?
@Chopper:
but in my opinion zoros…i guess we will call it "power" probably some sort of connection to the life force thats in everything (some people believe even earth and rocks have a life force of some kind). This sounds alot like where haki has its roots in.
so in summation Zoro's abilities may not be haki but i feel it comes from the same idea or thing as haki (and haki is a diff variation of the swordsman stuff and breath of life thing)
This is pretty much how I think too. I think it could be that this life force, ki, chi or w/e is the basis for all. And haki, Zoro's spirit and "bloodlust", breath of all things, rokushiki and all the other unexplained techniques are just some kind of different strands to that. Of course I don't have any proof but that's just my theory :ninja:
…Heck some posters still like the idea of Life Return being a major part of Luffy's repertoire....
Kinda offtopic, but at the time of EL arc I thought that Life Feedback could be something that Chopper might use in the future. Maybe a way of using his forms without the rumble balls or something?
Ener remaining a lightningman even while asleep(Kamakiri attacking him) and dead(Wiper's Reject Dial) would disagree.
Offtopic again, but I always thought it so that Wiper's Reject Dial didn't really completely kill Ener 'cause if it did there's really no reason how his fruit could be active anymore. There must have been some kind of life in him still allowing his fruit to work after the kairouseki wasn't touching him anymore. I like to think that if Wiper had left the kairouseki skater on Ener he would have most likely died quickly after.
It doesn't seem like any of them had haki and since none of them were df users it seems even more likely that they aren't.
Just curious; how do you know level 6 prisoners were not DF users?
@I:
…a person appeared in the chapter about Roger's execution...
Just out of curiosity, which chapter was this? I don't remember that many names were mentioned, just that many now infamous pirates were there.
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Since Otohime used CoO/Mantra as empathy in the last chapter, I imagined the reenactment of the famous following blooper from Star Trek
Empath: Captain, he is concealing something
Picard: We know that you stupid cow! You waste of Space! Why can't you tell us something important!
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Since Otohime used CoO/Mantra as empathy in the last chapter, I imagined the reenactment of the famous following blooper from Star Trek
Empath: Captain, he is concealing something
Picard: We know that you stupid cow! You waste of Space! Why can't you tell us something important!Wasn't Diana Troi just there for the Camel Toe factor?
At least thats all it seemed when she got a costume change from a skirt to a jumpsuit.To any offended ladies that was a dry sarcastic observation - Star Trek for all it's forward thinking still relied heavily on fan service hence 7 of 9. Jeri Ryan is however doing nicely as the new Sonya Blade I think.
Question on Haki though - do you think that the explination for Haki will be gradual or tied up quickly in 1-2 chapters?
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Wait, maybe if Otohime have CoO, Shirahoshi has it too, or maybe CoA! And she will fight with the strawhats. For a better tomorrow.
Who exactly is Mumbo?
It's OFFICIAL, UsoppXNami 4ever.
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@Sonic:
Wait, maybe if Otohime have CoO, Shirahoshi has it too, or maybe CoA! And she will fight with the strawhats. For a better tomorrow.
If Shirahoshi had CoA she would not be effected by VDD's attacks she could deflect them herself.
I strongly doubt she will be involved beyond what she is now.
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Oohhh you'll see, she'll be all like: "Decken nooo, (jumps to take an axe for a fishman) deflects it with Coa oh my god what did I just do?".
The power of friendship stands strong even at the brink of destruction, love, power and hatred blooms even at the bottom of the sea.
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Finally! Took some time but finally got through the whole thread
It was nice reading when I already knew when and what would be revealed later in the manga Some arguments were outright hilarious to read and some were really interesting discussions.…..................
Don't know if this has any real importance... But in the case where Akainu killed Ace, are people meaning that lava was a natural weakness to fire logia, same as water to Croc and rubber to Ener, when saying that lava smothers fire? Or is it only an attempt to logically explain why Akainu could kill Ace without using the natural weakness against him? Personally I could accept that lava was a natural weakness to fire.Kudos for making it through the entire thread, especially one as dense as this.
My personal take is to agree with you about how Akainu killed Ace. Lava doesn't burn with a flame but can smother flames by becoming a barrier between the flame and the oxygen needed to feed it. Akainu could therefore kill ace without necessarily invoking CoA.
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Kudos for making it through the entire thread, especially one as dense as this.
My personal take is to agree with you about how Akainu killed Ace. Lava doesn't burn with a flame but can smother flames by becoming a barrier between the flame and the oxygen needed to feed it. Akainu could therefore kill ace without necessarily invoking CoA.
By that logic wudnt Smoker's ability be even better suited to "smother" Ace's flame? Obviously he wasnt able to Smoke-fist Ace in the gutt. This means either Lava>Fire fruit, or there is Haki in play.
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weren't smoker's powers able to fight evenly with Ace's flames back in Alabasta though
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weren't smoker's powers able to fight evenly with Ace's flames back in Alabasta though
My point exactly, he didnt rape Ace like Akainu did
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@Sonic:
Wait, maybe if Otohime have CoO, Shirahoshi has it too, or maybe CoA! And she will fight with the strawhats. For a better tomorrow.
Finally! someone who makes sense and doesn't provoke me an urge to kill! :ninja:
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By that logic wudnt Smoker's ability be even better suited to "smother" Ace's flame? Obviously he wasnt able to Smoke-fist Ace in the gutt. This means either Lava>Fire fruit, or there is Haki in play.
No because smoke isn't a thick gooey substance. Smoke is created by the burning of organic matter and release of carbonaceous particles and other gases. I have never heard of a fire being put out by excessive smoke. Are you confusing carbon particles with carbon dioxide?
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Nami was born with a mastery of armor haki. Gags be damned.
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weren't smoker's powers able to fight evenly with Ace's flames back in Alabasta though
My point exactly, he didnt rape Ace like Akainu did
I think that's because as far as the relationship between magma and fire go, magma would definitely smother any fire it came in contact with and completely put it out. Whereas smoke is a by-product of fire (Where there's smoke there's fire, blah blah) so I feel like a fight between smoke and fire would be a lot more even than a fight between fire and lava.
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My personal take is to agree with you about how Akainu killed Ace. Lava doesn't burn with a flame but can smother flames by becoming a barrier between the flame and the oxygen needed to feed it. Akainu could therefore kill ace without necessarily invoking CoA.
@i:
I think that's because as far as the relationship between magma and fire go, magma would definitely smother any fire it came in contact with and completely put it out. Whereas smoke is a by-product of fire (Where there's smoke there's fire, blah blah) so I feel like a fight between smoke and fire would be a lot more even than a fight between fire and lava.
I agree with you both, but the thing why I brought this thing up again was to get an answer whether lava was a fire DF's natural weakness or not. If it was only a logical reason to how Akainu could kill Ace, it would mean that there's some other way to disable fire logia's ability like water did to sand and rubber to thunder. But yeah, it's probably not important and is just my obsession to know every little detail about One Piece
(And maybe this should be moved to General Devil Fruit thread…)Kudos for making it through the entire thread, especially one as dense as this.
Thanks
I might read through General Devil Fruit Discussion next… -
the most logical explanation here has nothing to do with Fire or Lava or Haki.
Ace was simply weak against Plot. He had to die.
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One minor clarification, Smoker and Ace didn't fight to a draw, rather they were incapable of harming each other. Fire and smoke are compatible in the sense that they both feed off the same reaction. Ace couldn't hurt smoker with flame and smoker couldn't touch Ace with smoke, so they therefore both separated unscathed.
However, this would work as evidence that Ace lacked the ability to use CoA.
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However, this would work as evidence that Ace lacked the ability to use CoA.
Ace has shown signs of all 3 haki, however he is master of none.
CoC is a fact.
Ace cringes when Akainu kills escaping pirates during marineford the classic aisa/coby CoO
and finally the hardened flame lance. Luffys elephant gun clearly shows that applying CoA to a attack will harden it. Examples of this phenomena are Kizaru's Sword and Ace's lance. He couldn't bypass logia intangibility or even regular DF defenses like Luffy or Jozu's bodies but he could harden his fire if that makes sense.I very well could be wrong about CoA but im 100% on CoO
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think of it this way:
Akainu used haki on Ace, and even if Ace attempted using haki back, his CoA wasn't strong enough to protect him from Akainu's punch.
Either that, or what kagehisa said. -
The Armament Aspect doesn't cancel out a Power User's abilities, so Sakazuki's Magu Fruit powers wouldn't have been able to burn Ace if it wasn't a weakness comparable to liquids for Crocodile or rubber for Ener. So whether Ambition was used or not(personally I lean towards no) fireman was screwed either way.
@Speed:
Ace cringes when Akainu kills escaping pirates during marineford the classic aisa/coby CoO
When did this happen? Would you mind linking a page because I don't recall this.
and finally the hardened flame lance. Luffys elephant gun clearly shows that applying CoA to a attack will harden it. Examples of this phenomena are Kizaru's Sword and Ace's lance. He couldn't bypass logia intangibility or even regular DF defenses like Luffy or Jozu's bodies but he could harden his fire if that makes sense.
Smoker did something similar when using White Out back at Lougetown. It's why Buggy, Alvida and the others weren't able to move and got caught by the seastone nets. Crocodile does the same thing with Desert Spada and La Spada, and he for sure hasn't been shown to use the Armament Aspect.
Logia-type Power Users making weapons out of their element or manipulating the thickness is just them showing some skill with their particular Devil Fruit.
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Wait, Ace had a view over the whole battlefield. Of course he cringes when he can see and hear everything that's happening.
Also, I don't believe in Akainu using Haki on Ace, it was just a moment of a fruit being more powerful than another.
But he had CoC, that's legit. Kinda wasted though…
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lol, just like ace, he kinda got wasted too.
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@Sonic:
Wait, Ace had a view over the whole battlefield. Of course he cringes when he can see and hear everything that's happening.
Also, I don't believe in Akainu using Haki on Ace, it was just a moment of a fruit being more powerful than another.
But he had CoC, that's legit. Kinda wasted though…
If you could only have one type of haki, COC is actually the worst to have. Besides being able to knock out armies of fodder, it hasn't yet been shown to be of any use against strong opponents.
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Elaborating on what has been said about CoC, it would make sense that it's uses are more intangible than the other two. As has been said in the manga, it causes people to be drawn to you and gain followers/influence, and mastery of animals. I also theorize that it causes you to have greater control and use of your DF ability. Like Ace and his boat/fire attacks or Luffy's numerous Rubber moves.
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Finally! Took some time but finally got through the whole thread
It was nice reading when I already knew when and what would be revealed later in the manga Some arguments were outright hilarious to read and some were really interesting discussions.kudos to you then.
Don't know if this has any real importance… But in the case where Akainu killed Ace, are people meaning that lava was a natural weakness to fire logia, same as water to Croc and rubber to Ener, when saying that lava smothers fire? Or is it only an attempt to logically explain why Akainu could kill Ace without using the natural weakness against him? Personally I could accept that lava was a natural weakness to fire.
As is usually the case when speaking of Haki and DF abilities, Vanessa has answered better than I could, but I will add that in the end, as with most things we discuss endlessly on these forums, it's a matter of people wanting an explanation for the unexplanable. It's a comic book, and in the end it doens;t have to make sense in our world. LOL.
That said, thesimple answer for me is that I have come to accept that Akainu's magma did indeed smother Ace's fire. It's logical as far as it goes, in sheer terms of why magame beats fire, even if there is no explanation for the whole "intagibility becomes solid enough to put a hole through" thing. But SHHH! Let's forget I even wrote that, k, 'lest another pages long argument ensue as a result… LOL
Don't know where you got that 50 years, have I missed something? But Ace didn't have his fruit powers when he left and started his pirating days so wouldn't it be theoretically possible that Akainu fought someone with fire logia even only 5 years ago?
Yeah, and didn't someone correct me on that a few posts after I wrote that? Anyway, I can't recall if I ever answered even back then, so… The fact is that in the original Luffy story, the one that won the contest that set Oda on the path of being an independant mangaka, and started OP, I think (though I haven't read it in over a year, so I could be recalling incorrectly) or maybe the OP story that appeared in Wanted, he wrote something about the fruits appearing only once every 50 years or some such thing, and since it was the same characters, and was also called Romance Dawn, I temporarily forgot that it doesn't apply to the current, actual manga. My bad.
Just out of curiosity, which chapter was this? I don't remember that many names were mentioned, just that many now infamous pirates were there.
chapter 0–it's on many a website hosting Manga, came out about the same time as movie ten, so not before, but much later than Chapter one, and takes place prior to the start of OP as we know it. Check it out, it's so worth a read if only to see the older characters in their younger forms.
@DevilBatDive!:Elaborating on what has been said about CoC, it would make sense that it's uses are more intangible than the other two. As has been said in the manga, it causes people to be drawn to you and gain followers/influence, and mastery of animals. I also theorize that it causes you to have greater control and use of your DF ability. Like Ace and his boat/fire attacks or Luffy's numerous Rubber moves.
Ooh, ooh, I have a whole theory about Coc, but I'm sure most folks here are tired of hearing it, so I'll spare you the agonizing details, lol.
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It makes no rational sense for Ace to have CoO and CoA Haki. If he had CoO, we would have seen that in his youth. There seems to be no natural CoA users, despite ample time Oda had to display them.
In addition, Ace's life provides no necessity to undergo Haki training. He has inherited super-strength and intelligence, natural CoC, and ate a Logia DF. His first troublesome encounter was Whitebeard. However, Whitebeard's crew doesn't have advanced knowledge on Haki, and only a few are able to use it. I surmise that Ace can fight Marco, Jozu, Thatch, and Vista evenly with no problem even without Haki. After seeing Whitebeard fight at Marineford, it's clear that he can't use Haki all the time like Rayleigh does.
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Regarding Akainu being able to injure Ace:
It seemed to me that it didn't have anything to do with haki, even though Akainu displayed the ability to use it. From the way Akainu described his fruit compared to Ace's it stuck me as the same as Luffy's fruit when it interacted with Enel's. -
Regarding Akainu being able to injure Ace:
It seemed to me that it didn't have anything to do with haki, even though Akainu displayed the ability to use it. From the way Akainu described his fruit compared to Ace's it stuck me as the same as Luffy's fruit when it interacted with Enel's.Exactly, his fruit was just made for killing Ace.
Deal with it.
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I don't think it was Haki either, I think it's pretty obvious that basic rules of nature still apply to devil fruits. Look at what happened to Aokiji's ice once Akainu's magma came in contact with it. If they for some reason ever fought it would be the same thing, Akainu having the superior element just like when he killed Ace. Think of what would happen if magma came in contact with a campfire, it would smother it and put it out. That's what I figure basically happened to Ace when Akainu punched through his fire.
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@I:
kudos to you then.
Thanks
@I:
Yeah, and didn't someone correct me on that a few posts after I wrote that? Anyway, I can't recall if I ever answered even back then, so… The fact is that in the original Luffy story, the one that won the contest that set Oda on the path of being an independant mangaka, and started OP, I think (though I haven't read it in over a year, so I could be recalling incorrectly) or maybe the OP story that appeared in Wanted, he wrote something about the fruits appearing only once every 50 years or some such thing, and since it was the same characters, and was also called Romance Dawn, I temporarily forgot that it doesn't apply to the current, actual manga. My bad.
Well, I didn't see anyone commenting to that, but whatever
And now when you mentioned it, I remembered it too. It indeed was said in either one of those early Romance Dawns, don't know which one though…@I:
chapter 0–it's on many a website hosting Manga, came out about the same time as movie ten, so not before, but much later than Chapter one, and takes place prior to the start of OP as we know it. Check it out, it's so worth a read if only to see the older characters in their younger forms.
Oh! You meant that chapter. I have read it, but it was some time ago and didn't even remember there was something like that mentioned…
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I agree with all your Haki points just not that Ace can last 5 minutes vs. Marco or do much better against Jozu. Dropping it since its not the topic though.
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@Sonic:
Exactly, his fruit was just made for killing Ace.
Deal with it.
His entire character was made just for killing Ace.
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I agree with that, but I don't think the fangirls would, though.:ninja:
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Is there any way that we can assume that Haki would bruise Alvida? Or would Haki bounce off her? Theoretically speaking…
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I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work on her, Haki works on Luffy and their powers' are close in terms of what they do/how they work.
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Alvida as a slipwoman doesn't stop something from actually touching her so using the Armament Aspect should work just fine.
It isn't like say Buggy, who Ambition might not even work in conjunction with attacks using sharp weapons as a base due to becoming a splitman which prevents contact from being made in the first place.
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Don't know. I personally think that Buggy could die from a sword imbedded with Haki. Haki of armaments is the only way to fight of devil fruits (as rayleigh mentioned) so when, for instance, Rayleigh stopped Kizaru while becoming his element he hurt him (with a sword on the cheek) even though that should not be possible. So if haki were to slice Buggy he would definately be hurt/killed. Also, if Zoro hadn't sliced him into 3 pieces way back at the Buggy arc (if that is what it's called) but just made skindeep cuts or just stabbed him, Buggy could have easily been hurt. Zoro just didn't know.
