You can cut Buggy's actual body even without haki. Buggy's ability doesn't prevent that. It prevents him from bleeding to death. His internal organs etc. act as if they're still connected.
Meaning haki slashes won't hurt Buggy.
Ehhh, this debate again? It would totally depend on Oda's choice I think.
And we need more info about haki works. Oda should give us some more details.
Meaning haki slashes won't hurt Buggy.
Idk why you believe this so strongly but chances are you're wrong Jacker, that would contradict the entire
concept of reaching ones "True" body when using Haki, don't you think?
Yes, I understand that Buggy's ability is Always on , is constant and doesn't require him to "change" into anything
like some Logia need to , but the same thing can be said for Luffy , who is ALWAYS rubber
yet haki can hurt him, even blunt attacks.
So yea I really don't understand why out of everyone in OP , Buggy is an exception to the rule because his ability
is specifically meant to render cuts and slashes useless. Like I pointed out earlier he might not stay decapitated
when cut , but I think he'll still feel pain and possibly draw blood.
Buggy is the exception because his ability explicitly allows him to be cut without pain, and instantly reform. His "true body" is already out in the open, so Haki doesn't change things.
Buggy even stated it, he can't be cut forover, there's a finite number of times he can take slashes, kinda like hawkins I suppose.
Haki is still not consistent in this series. I am sure there are other forces in the series besides haki.
Kinda like zoro's 9 sword style he used against kaku.
I believe haki slashes will hit Buggy, but he can separate his body to avoid the damage despite it having haki. Much like how hitting a logia in their elemental form with will hurt them, but they can still use their elemental state to dodge the attack
why can't logia just separate their parts before getting hit by haki, are they that slow?
why can't logia just separate their parts before getting hit by haki, are they that slow?
But that's what they do… well, maybe not seperate their parts, but they can move their logia body around attacks
why can't logia just separate their parts before getting hit by haki, are they that slow?
They can. Its just that, as Vergo mentioned, it also makes you a bigger target for the next attack.
Kinda like zoro's 9 sword style he used against kaku.
I was hoping by this point we would get an explanation for Zoro's and Sanji's abilities…Although with Sanji he spams that diajamble attack a lot so it's not a special reserve move any more. Zoro's we haven't seen him use Asuhara since Pre-time skip Shabondy. I like to assume the next time he does it we'll get an explanation...cause honestly it's such a weird attack.
I like to assume the next time he does it we'll get an explanation…cause honestly it's such a weird attack.
Agreed….although I think it's similar to his "breath of sword" mumbo-jumbo in the Mr.1 fight.....not unlike haki, but.....different, I dunno.
I definetly think the next stra what member to obtain haki will be Usopp.
I was hoping by this point we would get an explanation for Zoro's and Sanji's abilities…Although with Sanji he spams that diajamble attack a lot so it's not a special reserve move any more. Zoro's we haven't seen him use Asuhara since Pre-time skip Shabondy. I like to assume the next time he does it we'll get an explanation...cause honestly it's such a weird attack.
Dude, I hear what you are saying. I bitch about it like once a month, do you know it has been almost 7, yes 7 years since he 1st used it? I am also one of those fanboys that ha been waiting for an explanation since he used it. It has gone on too far now, we need an explanation.
of course a haki slash would hurt buggy,and he will not be able to "repair" it,just look at how clean buggy is usually cut with his power,and imagine if someone cut him in half with his powers not able to counter it..his gut's will be on the floor,no way he vould repair that like he usually do.
the only problem with this thory of mine is when akainu was slashed by marco and vista,clearly cut with haki but manage to reform itself…but every other damage during the series made with haki to someone who usually wouldn't have been hurt,has showed damage and said damage was not "repaired" through the power of his fruit (like the punch jozu gave to kuzan)
Yea , I think Oda had a brain fart on that panel with Marco and Vista vs Akainu , they both had pretty clean hits on him
confirmed to be haki imbued, yet I didn't see any indication he was in pain unless he somehow defended against it to our unknowing.
"The Night Is Dark And Full Of Terror"
Here's a little big about Zoro's Asura
http://www.apforums.net/showthread.php?t=11980&page=20&p=522110#post522110
About the Buggy thing i think it's pretty straightforward - if he gets cut with haki he gets hit, if he doesn't get hit with haki then he's not hit. So if he is manually able to separate his body before being cut then he's safe :)
Idk why you believe this so strongly but chances are you're wrong Jacker, that would contradict the entire
concept of reaching ones "True" body when using Haki, don't you think?Yes, I understand that Buggy's ability is Always on , is constant and doesn't require him to "change" into anything
like some Logia need to , but the same thing can be said for Luffy , who is ALWAYS rubber
yet haki can hurt him, even blunt attacks.So yea I really don't understand why out of everyone in OP , Buggy is an exception to the rule because his ability
is specifically meant to render cuts and slashes useless. Like I pointed out earlier he might not stay decapitated
when cut , but I think he'll still feel pain and possibly draw blood.
Well, it could go either way. But here's why I think haki slashes won't necessarily hurt Buggy: Buggy doesn't have a "DF body", only a "real body". He doesn't transform into anything. You can cut his real body even without haki. Cutting attacks just don't hurt him.
His power allows him to be "always connected". His blood veins, internal organs, nervous system all work as if connected. He even able to drink without his stomach.[hide]
[/hide]This is why he's an "exception" (Not really, this doesn't contradict anything we've learned about CoA). He gets cut normally, but he can survive in that state. @infinite:
Buggy even stated it, he can't be cut forover, there's a finite number of times he can take slashes, kinda like hawkins I suppose.
Did he? I don't remember him saying anything about a "cut limit".@Blowfish:
Yea , I think Oda had a brain fart on that panel with Marco and Vista vs Akainu , they both had pretty clean hits on him
confirmed to be haki imbued, yet I didn't see any indication he was in pain unless he somehow defended against it to our unknowing.
He could've made way for those attacks so that they didn't touch him, like Aokiji did to defend against WB. Dunno.
Did he? I don't remember him saying anything about a "cut limit".
Y'know, I actually do somewhere remember him saying that too.
I thought it was in the Luffy vs. Mihawk fight, when Luffy used him as a human shield and Luffy said "Why does it bother you? You can't be cut right?" and then Buggy said something like there being a limit to the amount of cuts he could take, because Mihawk sliced him up to tiny pieces.
But I just checked the Manga AND Anime scenes for that, and he never said anything of the likes. So I'm not sure. Doesn't seem to have been confirmed.
Buggy will be harmed by CoA. Haki is supposed to let you bypass the df abilities. This is a fact. Aokiji did not grow his leg back after it was lost, no reason to expect Buggy to be immune to CoA imbued haki slashes. If he is cut, he will probably stay cut, or atleast they should hurt him. Luffy is immune to blunt attacks, yet CoA works on him, so Buggy should be no exception.
@Ace:
Buggy will be harmed by CoA. Haki is supposed to let you bypass the df abilities. This is a fact. Aokiji did not grow his leg back after it was lost, no reason to expect Buggy to be immune to CoA imbued haki slashes. If he is cut, he will probably stay cut, or atleast they should hurt him. Luffy is immune to blunt attacks, yet CoA works on him, so Buggy should be no exception.
Did you read my post? There is nothing to "bypass" and Haki doesn't nullify abilities.@Jackermeister:
Well, it could go either way. But here's why I think haki slashes won't necessarily hurt Buggy: Buggy doesn't have a "DF body", only a "real body". He doesn't transform into anything. You can cut his real body even without haki. Cutting attacks just don't hurt him.
His power allows him to be "always connected". His blood veins, internal organs, nervous system all work as if connected. He even able to drink without his stomach.[hide]http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130121051921/onepiece/images/2/2c/Chapter_47.png[/hide]This is why he's an "exception" (Not really, this doesn't contradict anything we've learned about CoA). He gets cut normally, but he can survive in that state..
When Ace used his fire fist, the fire coming out of him was part of his body?
I can see smoker not being able to create smoke, thus his smoke always being his body, but does the same applies to the mera²? I'm cooking a theory about Haki mechanics 
Against facts there are no arguments.
When Ace used his fire fist, the fire coming out of him was part of his body?
I can see smoker not being able to create smoke, thus his smoke always being his body, but does the same applies to the mera²? I'm cooking a theory about Haki mechanics
Yes. From SBS Volume 20:
R: Question, Odacchi! Ace ate the Mera Mera no Mi so he can…
(1) "Can turn his body into flame"?
(2) "Can shoot flame from his body", which one is it?
O: The answer is (1). But his secret move "Hiken" (Fire Punch) is a skill where he raises his "firepower" and turns his fist into a huge flame, so it ends up looking more like (2).
So the whole thing is his body..
Well, i guess then that Haki just allows you to hold the essence of the person..
Crap, the more I think the more I get confused with the marineford arc :/
Did you read my post? There is nothing to "bypass" and Haki doesn't nullify abilities.
Of course there is, if the haki slashes connect they will still hurt his body. Nobody said that his df will stop working, he will still be a bara bara man, but the slashes will hurt him.
Logias are immune to all types of attacks, yet haki allows them to be hurt. Haki does not seal their df abilities, but it does allow one to bypass the natural df abilities. You also ignored the Aokiji example, he lost his leg, but he should have been able to join back if what you say is true. Haki did not seal his ability he was still a logia, so why did he lose his leg ?? And before you bring the 'always connected' point, logia can be smashed to pieces, yet they will still be 'always connected' as well. Kizaru was somehow blasted in two pieces by Apoo, yet he could still use his legs separately, so he was connected even when he was severed in two parts. We again saw that he could be slashed by Rayleigh later. So this 'always connected' part does not support your theory.
Also, while you can cut his body even without haki, the reason he doesn't get hurt is because of his df ability. Haki will bypass this. It won't seal his ability to split his body, but it will bypass the natural defence and hurt him. The df body point makes no sense either, as only logias have have a df body. Zoans are able to transform, but their bodies are very much real. Haki does not seal their ability, but it does help one bypass it.
In a way, Buggy and Luffy can be considered opposites. Buggy is immune to bladed attacks but blunt attacks still hurt him, while Luffy is immune to blunt attacks while bladed attacks hurt him. We have already seen with Luffy that haki allows one to bypass his df, no reason buggy will be an exception. Luffy has a real body as well, he still gets hurt by haki puches, even though he is supposed to be immune to those type of attacks.
Haki slashes will hurt buggy, and he is no exception.
@Ace:
Of course there is, if the haki slashes connect they will still hurt his body. Nobody said that his df will stop working, he will still be a bara bara man, but the slashes will hurt him.
Logias are immune to all types of attacks, yet haki allows them to be hurt. Haki does not seal their df abilities, but it does allow one to bypass the natural df abilities. You also ignored the Aokiji example, he lost his leg, but he should have been able to join back if what you say is true. Haki did not seal his ability he was still a logia, so why did he lose his leg ?? And before you bring the 'always connected' point, logia can be smashed to pieces, yet they will still be 'always connected' as well. Kizaru was somehow blasted in two pieces by Apoo, yet he could still use his legs separately, so he was connected even when he was severed in two parts. We again saw that he could be slashed by Rayleigh later. So this 'always connected' part does not support your theory.
Also, while you can cut his body even without haki, the reason he doesn't get hurt is because of his df ability. Haki will bypass this. It won't seal his ability to split his body, but it will bypass the natural defence and hurt him. The df body point makes no sense either, as only logias have have a df body. Zoans are able to transform, but their bodies are very much real. Haki does not seal their ability, but it does help one bypass it.
In a way, Buggy and Luffy can be considered opposites. Buggy is immune to bladed attacks but blunt attacks still hurt him, while Luffy is immune to blunt attacks while bladed attacks hurt him. We have already seen with Luffy that haki allows one to bypass his df, no reason buggy will be an exception. Luffy has a real body as well, he still gets hurt by haki puches, even though he is supposed to be immune to those type of attacks.
Haki slashes will hurt buggy, and he is no exception.
Logias surviving slashes is not based on being "always connected". It's based becoming an invulnerable element. Does smoke get hurt if it's cut cut? No. Logias have to be in elemental form(at the point of impact) to survive getting severed. Haki allows you hit their "real body". Aokiji lost his leg because it was his real leg that was cut off.
And logias are not the only ones with a DF body. Luffy has a DF body, he's made of rubber. But with haki he gets hit as if he wasn't. Buggy doesn't get hurt because he's "always connected". To "bypass" this haki would have to remove his ability. Only BB is capable of that.
I agree, he's no exception. Because there's no reason haki slashes should hurt him in the first place (unless we are wrong about how CoA works/there's some aspect of it we still don't know).
Even in the New World, where there's ton of haki users, Shanks stated that Buggy "can't die no matter how many times he gets stabbed". And Mihawk, who said he wouldn't hold back against Luffy (=he used haki), was unable to hurt him.
Yes. From SBS Volume 20:
R: Question, Odacchi! Ace ate the Mera Mera no Mi so he can…
(1) "Can turn his body into flame"?
(2) "Can shoot flame from his body", which one is it?
O: The answer is (1). But his secret move "Hiken" (Fire Punch) is a skill where he raises his "firepower" and turns his fist into a huge flame, so it ends up looking more like (2).
That's what i thougt the entire time, thanks for the confirmation :). Maybe that's why Kizaru fought with a Light Sword against Ray. If he would shoot his Finger Beam towards Ray, and the Beam itself is Kizarus Finger Tip, and Ray would punch the Beam, then It would be like Kizaru would throw his Finger Tip with the speed of light againste a wall…which means major Damage. His Finge Tip would be vanish :D.
That's what i thougt the entire time, thanks for the confirmation :). Maybe that's why Kizaru fought with a Light Sword against Ray. If he would shoot his Finger Beam towards Ray, and the Beam itself is Kizarus Finger Tip, and Ray would punch the Beam, then It would be like Kizaru would throw his Finger Tip with the speed of light againste a wall…which means major Damage. His Finge Tip would be vanish :D.
Meh… I don't think so. The finger beam that he'd be firing would only be the manifestation (the fuck i don't know the right word for it…) or simply the shape of it and not actually his fighters shooting like a beam away from his body. Same thing with the Ace thing imo. I don't think their physical body becomes bigger as their element forms a bigger version of their limbs.
That's what i thougt the entire time, thanks for the confirmation :). Maybe that's why Kizaru fought with a Light Sword against Ray. If he would shoot his Finger Beam towards Ray, and the Beam itself is Kizarus Finger Tip, and Ray would punch the Beam, then It would be like Kizaru would throw his Finger Tip with the speed of light againste a wall…which means major Damage. His Finge Tip would be vanish :D.
I think logias can separate the element from their body, though. For example, if Ace used Hiken and separated the fist so that didn't touch his main body anymore, he wouldn't get hurt if someone haki puched the "fire fist". Like how Akainu shoots those magma fists into the sky; they aren't in contact with his body anymore, so they're just regular magma. But they have to turn into their element first, (they can't just create it, it has to be from their body).@I
Taeyeon:
Meh… I don't think so. The finger beam that he'd be firing would only be the manifestation (the fuck i don't know the right word for it…) or simply the shape of it and not actually his fighters shooting like a beam away from his body. Same thing with the Ace thing imo. I don't think their physical body becomes bigger as their element forms a bigger version of their limbs.
Remember what Vergo said?[hide]
[/hide]
Logias surviving slashes is not based on being "always connected". It's based becoming an invulnerable element. Does smoke get hurt if it's cut cut? No. Logias have to be in elemental form(at the point of impact) to survive getting severed. Haki allows you hit their "real body". Aokiji lost his leg because it was his real leg that was cut off.
And logias are not the only ones with a DF body. Luffy has a DF body, he's made of rubber. But with haki he gets hit as if he wasn't. Buggy doesn't get hurt because he's "always connected". To "bypass" this haki would have to remove his ability. Only BB is capable of that.
I agree, he's no exception. Because there's no reason haki slashes should hurt him in the first place (unless we are wrong about how CoA works/there's some aspect of it we still don't know).
Even in the New World, where there's ton of haki users, Shanks stated that Buggy "can't die no matter how many times he gets stabbed". And Mihawk, who said he wouldn't hold back against Luffy (=he used haki), was unable to hurt him.
always connected is only a part of buggy's ability..one other part is "you can't be wounded by "cutting" attacks"..and that part is bypassed by haki.
bypassed that,the always connected one doesn't work,because as we can clearly see,when buggy is cut with his DF power active,he is not cut like a normal person,no blood,clean cut,no signes of organs of bones,it's like he is made of plasticine.
so it's "always connected part only works when the first part works,if he is decapitated by an haki attack,he would simply die
@ITaeyeon:
Meh… I don't think so. The finger beam that he'd be firing would only be the manifestation (the fuck i don't know the right word for it…) or simply the shape of it and not actually his fighters shooting like a beam away from his body. Same thing with the Ace thing imo. I don't think their physical body becomes bigger as their element forms a bigger version of their limbs.
Sure it coul be that way. If they expand their main body, let say, Ace makes his head 3 times bigger and he gets a blow from a fist, then it would be like only a 1/3 of the normal fist size would hit him :D, or the area where the main body takes damage is 3 times lesser.
Logias surviving slashes is not based on being "always connected". It's based becoming an invulnerable element. Does smoke get hurt if it's cut cut? No. Logias have to be in elemental form(at the point of impact) to survive getting severed. Haki allows you hit their "real body". Aokiji lost his leg because it was his real leg that was cut off.
Yes it is. When they are in their elemental form, they are 'always connected'. In a way, that is similar to Buggy. When Aokiji was crushed, or Kizaru was in two parts because of Apoo, did he not reassemble himself ??
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Also, the only thing you are proving is that haki allows to bypass a df ability. Smoke cannot be cut normally, but with haki one can bypass the df ability. Its not like their df ability is sealed, its just bypassed. The same can be said for buggy, who normally cannot be cut because of his df ability, but with haki this can be bypassed. The reason he cannot be cut is not because he is 'always connected' or some other thing, its simply his df ability, nothing more. If what you said is true, then haki should not work on a logia either.
And logias are not the only ones with a DF body. Luffy has a DF body, he's made of rubber. But with haki he gets hit as if he wasn't. Buggy doesn't get hurt because he's "always connected". To "bypass" this haki would have to remove his ability. Only BB is capable of that.
If Luffy has a df body, then so does Buggy. Buggy is the same as Luffy. Luffy can a stretch his body because of his df, the same way Buggy can split his body because of his df. In no way can you pretend that Luffy has a df body while Buggy has a normal body. A real body cannot survive after being split. If luffy had a df body, he could have let attacks pass through him, but he can't because that is his real body. You can make that case for buggy though, who can split himself and let attacks pass through him. Both are 'real bodies' though.
Luffy does not have a df body, he may be rubber, but he is not a logia who can create rubber from his body. He can be hit and cut like a normal person, just that he is immune to blunt attacks. And as you pointed out, haki allows them to bypass it. Its not like he stops being rubber. The same can be said for buggy. Haki will bypass his df ability, but it won't stop him from being a bara bara man. He will still be able to use his ability, even if he is cut.
I agree, he's no exception. Because there's no reason haki slashes should hurt him in the first place (unless we are wrong about how CoA works/there's some aspect of it we still don't know).
Yes there is. Haki slashes should hurt him obviously. Its not like he is naturally able to split his body. Its because of a df. Haki allows one to bypass the df ability. Buggy is a bara bara man because of his df. Haki will allow one to bypass this ability and allow them to cut him. You say that buggy has no df body, which is true but without his df, he would not be able to split himself.
He will still be able to use his ability though. Why are you assuming that haki will have to remove his ability to bypass him ?? Does haki remove a logia's ability when it bypasses them ?? No. But without bypassing it, it would be impossible to land a hit on them. Does Luffy stop being able to stretch when haki is used on him ?? Of course not, he is still able to use it.
Its like you are creating a different set of rules for Buggy than to the rest. In the end, haki will effect Buggy just like it does to the rest. Meaning haki slashes should effect him as well.
Even in the New World, where there's ton of haki users, Shanks stated that Buggy "can't die no matter how many times he gets stabbed". And Mihawk, who said he wouldn't hold back against Luffy (=he used haki), was unable to hurt him.
Where was this said, and in any case, in that sentence he never mentioned anything about haki. The thing about New world is entirely your own assumption. How do you know if he included haki in it as well ?? If that sentence would have added 'even with haki' then that would have made sense. This sentence proves nothing, only that he can't be stabbed, which we already knew.
There was no proof that Mihawk used CoA on luffy. You are once again assuming something on your own. Luffy is not a logia, Mihawk knew that, so why did he need to use CoA ?? He said he won't hold back, and he wasn't. He was trying to kill Luffy without holding back, but for him to do that he does not need CoA.
Anyway, this is going nowhere. For now the only solid fact is that CoA is the only way to tackle df ability users, and buggy is no different. His ability to split should be able to be overcome by using CoA. Oda will probably explain this, but by that time we would have completely forgotten this debate altogether.
I see where you're coming from Jacker, but I just don't see why Oda would make an exception for Buggy to the "bypassing" rule of haki.
It's like Ace Of Spades said. Luffy and Buggy are opposites , one can't be cut while the other can't be hurt with blunt attacks, however
their invulnerabilies are each others vulnerability.
They both follow your concept of not having separate bodies, Luffy is always Rubber , Buggy is always Buggy. Yet Buggy is the only one who isn't effected by Haki slashes? Same should be for Luffy and blunt attacks in that case , even if they have haki it shouldn't harm him.
It's funny how you guys brought up Mihawk , because I swear this is "Mihawk doesn't have Haki" all over again.
"The Night Is Dark And Full Of Terror"
This whole argument about Buggy being immune to CoA slashes is kinda dumb to begin with.
Buggy is not avoiding contact with the blade when he's getting splitted by one. If a Hakified blade touches his body, his splitting defense should be bypassed.
I won't bother replying to Ace's wall of text, because we clearly have different views on how stuff like haki and logias etc. work. @Blowfish:
I see where you're coming from Jacker, but I just don't see why Oda would make an exception for Buggy to the "bypassing" rule of haki.
It's like Ace Of Spades said. Luffy and Buggy are opposites , one can't be cut while the other can't be hurt with blunt attacks, however
their invulnerabilies are each others vulnerability.They both follow your concept of not having separate bodies, Luffy is always Rubber , Buggy is always Buggy. Yet Buggy is the only one who isn't effected by Haki slashes? Same should be for Luffy and blunt attacks in that case , even if they have haki it shouldn't harm him.
My point is that Buggy can be cut, it just doesn't hurt him.
Luffy can't turn his ability off, but he's not permanently rubber. His DF is keeping him rubber. [hide]BB completely nullifies his powers = He's not rubber anymore.
[/hide]Haki "bypasses" the rubber and hits his real body. Buggy doesn't have a DF body, he's just "always connected".
I could be wrong. But until I see Buggy get hurt by haki slashes or it's explicitly stated that he would, I'm going to assume that haki cuts won't hurt him.
I won't bother replying to Ace's wall of text, because we clearly have different views on how stuff like haki and logias etc. work. My point is that Buggy can be cut, it just doesn't hurt him.
Luffy can't turn his ability off, but he's not permanently rubber. His DF is keeping him rubber. [hide]BB completely nullifies his powers = He's not rubber anymore.
http://i40.mangapanda.com/one-piece/544/one-piece-65560.jpg[/hide]Haki "bypasses" the rubber and hits his real body. Buggy doesn't have a DF body, he's just "always connected".
I could be wrong. But until I see Buggy get hurt by haki slashes or it's explicitly stated that he would, I'm going to assume that haki cuts won't hurt him.
Why do you keep saying that Buggy doesn't have a DF body? Are you saying that it's possible for a normal body to survive being splitted like that? Or that Buggy's powers aren't the result of a DF? That thing about him being "always connected" is nonsense (wouldn't a "always connected" body be considered a DF body in the first place?).
Haki lets you hit a fruit user's true body, even if they turn intangible… but it doesn't turn their power off.
Blackbeard's fruit actually nullifies and turns powers off, that's why he was so keen to get it.
Why do you keep saying that Buggy doesn't have a DF body? Are you saying that it's possible for a normal body to survive being splitted like that? Or that Buggy's powers aren't the result of a DF? That thing about him being "always connected" is nonsense (wouldn't a "always connected" body be considered a DF body in the first place?).
He doesn't have a DF body because that is his body. That's how it is, and the only way of changing it is with either kairouseki or BB's DF.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@RobbyBevard:
Haki lets you hit a fruit user's true body, even if they turn intangible… but it doesn't turn their power off.
Blackbeard's fruit actually nullifies and turns powers off, that's why he was so keen to get it.
You don't hit his true body, you hit his body. Haki just make the intangible tangible.
Against facts there are no arguments.
He doesn't have a DF body because that is his body. That's how it is, and the only way of changing it is with either kairouseki or BB's DF.
–- Update From New Post Merge ---
You don't hit his true body, you hit his body. Haki just make the intangible tangible.
This doesn't make any sense.
It's just less confusing to accept that Buggy is vulnerable to CoA (including cuts) like every other DF user (or normal person for that matter).
Only Logias have 2 bodies.
For this to work, I need to state a few things. Logias are made of their DF element. There is no normal body/DF body, just their body that is made of ice (Kuzan) or magma (Akainu) or rubber (Luffy). Logias do not produce their element. In order to throw those huge lava fists into the sky Akainu swelled his hand and threw it up, and when separated it no longer was part of him, and his hand returns to normal. Haki allows one to reach the essence of something. If you try to hit a Logia DF you will only phase trough, but with Haki you would actually hit the person.
Ok, after those are understood, I'll go to the tricky part. Logias don't die from being cut. What is the real difference in hitting someone with Haki then? Like with skywalk (where you jump on the air by using Haki to be able to kick the air), you will be able to hit the (before intangible) element. Ace was fire in the shape of a man, so if you punch him without Haki his fire (he, actually) will just move around your fist, but with Haki you become able to hit him.
But if you use a knife with haki to cut Ace? Well, you'll succeed in cutting.. fire! Yes, fire. He won't stop being fire because you cut him. Like when WB pierces Kuzan with Haki and he just freezes WB's spear, or when Apoo slices Kizaru. Since they are made of ice/light they can't die from blood loss (or having their guts spilled out), so they just need to reattach.
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Here they get limbs chopped got pierced and still no fucks were given.
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Here is Kizaru redefining the expression put yourself together
So how do we hurt Logias? We hit them! When cut a normal person dies not from the cut, but from blood loss, organ failure, etc. So if you cut someone that won't bleed it's just useless effort. But if you hit them they still get the full damage.
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No damage from being cut, but internal bleeding from Jozu's strike.
Against facts there are no arguments.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v60/c687/15.html
Looks like blood to me
About the Aokiji vs WB thing, I always thought that Aokiji was fast enough and made a hole in his body before WB's spear actually made contact..
Because Aokiji would die or at least be hurt badly like what happened with Monet if WB managed to actually hit him. :L
Hidden:
This phony honor code that puts you on your throne, a double standard you invoke when you want~
This doesn't make any sense.
It's just less confusing to accept that Buggy is vulnerable to CoA (including cuts) like every other DF user (or normal person for that matter).
Only Logias have 2 bodies.
2 bodies? That's even more confusing. Logias are the element. Haki won't bypass a DF, it'll just hit regardless of tangibility.
Against facts there are no arguments.
http://www.mangahere.com/manga/one_piece/v60/c687/15.html
Looks like blood to me
Ok, so she gets cut and bleeds. Why all other Logias don't bleed when they get cut?
@NER:
About the Aokiji vs WB thing, I always thought that Aokiji was fast enough and made a hole in his body before WB's spear actually made contact..
Because Aokiji would die or at least be hurt badly like what happened with Monet if WB managed to actually hit him. :L
I personally don't believe he made a hole.
Against facts there are no arguments.
Ok, so she gets cut and bleeds. Why all other Logias don't bleed when they get cut?
I personally don't believe he made a hole.
Well Ao Kiji and Aka Inu are top tiers. Certainly among the most powerful in the world.
It is safe to assume they have a high, very high mastery of CoA. Since Luffy told his CoA wasn't strong enough to protect him against Hody biting him, we can believe their CoA is strong enough to protect them against blades.
If this isn't the right explanation, then, there's the hole. Or, it is a combination of the 2.
But, IMO, it's the hole thing. This could explain why Aka Inu says haki users are very annoying, obliging them to do some tricky things with thei body, instead of simply being shot.
Ok, so she gets cut and bleeds. Why all other Logias don't bleed when they get cut
Haki… Aokiji lost his leg
One thing I'm wondering is the relationship between haki and the six arts. Being high in the world gov/ navy it's unlikely the CP9 are unaware of it. Vergo seemed to be an example of a high level specialty in CoA, could 6 arts iron body be a variation on this or something else entirely? CP9 didn't seem to be able to directly affect weapons like the Kuja or Vergo but some of their effects were close.
Haki… Aokiji lost his leg
Of course he did, I never said they were invulnerable. Ace got burnt. If you cut his leg off all he can do is regrow a new one made of ice. Like he did. ;)
One thing I'm wondering is the relationship between haki and the six arts. Being high in the world gov/ navy it's unlikely the CP9 are unaware of it. Vergo seemed to be an example of a high level specialty in CoA, could 6 arts iron body be a variation on this or something else entirely? CP9 didn't seem to be able to directly affect weapons like the Kuja or Vergo but some of their effects were close.
Here's how I look at it: Rokushiki (6 arts) is what government fighters learn to strengthen their natural fighting capabilities when their Haki is weak. When their Haki is strong, only Geppou, Soru, and Rankyaku retain usefulness.
Also, there is weird stuff like fire, lightning, ice, wind, water, and shadow elemental moves that don't have a direct link with Haki. I don't think Oda will ever explain them, because they are mysteries.
Here's how I look at it: Rokushiki (6 arts) is what government fighters learn to strengthen their natural fighting capabilities when their Haki is weak. When their Haki is strong, only Geppou, Soru, and Rankyaku retain usefulness.
Also, there is weird stuff like fire, lightning, ice, wind, water, and shadow elemental moves that don't have a direct link with Haki. I don't think Oda will ever explain them, because they are mysteries.
Tekkai and Shigan would also be useful. How is the "avoid art" called? Would also be useful. They are pretty useful arts. And there is still Rokugan and maybe other stuff. And one can still evelop these Techniques. Seriously, look at the possebilities. I guss, even if Lucci had a pretty weak Busou Haki back then, he would have destroyed Luffy within a minute. Lucci could take more damage and his attacks would actually hurt Luffy. I guess, it's a huge different if one is capable of using (only using, not mastered) Busou Haki and Rokushiki.
I consider Rokushiki (mastered) as pretty usefull arts. Combined with Busou and Kenbun, there shouldn't be much people who can stand up against such people.
Even Though, we are in the New World, i still don't consider the CP9 as weak now. Atleast not Jabura, Kaku and Lucci. Like i said, if they can use Haki, then they can also walk around in the New World. Which means, they get some experience which made them even better fighters.
BTW, i hope we will see someday Life Feedback again.
Tekkai and Shigan would also be useful. How is the "avoid art" called? Would also be useful. They are pretty useful arts. And there is still Rokugan and maybe other stuff. And one can still evelop these Techniques. Seriously, look at the possebilities. I guss, even if Lucci had a pretty weak Busou Haki back then, he would have destroyed Luffy within a minute. Lucci could take more damage and his attacks would actually hurt Luffy. I guess, it's a huge different if one is capable of using (only using, not mastered) Busou Haki and Rokushiki.
I consider Rokushiki (mastered) as pretty usefull arts. Combined with Busou and Kenbun, there shouldn't be much people who can stand up against such people.
Even Though, we are in the New World, i still don't consider the CP9 as weak now. Atleast not Jabura, Kaku and Lucci. Like i said, if they can use Haki, then they can also walk around in the New World. Which means, they get some experience which made them even better fighters.BTW, i hope we will see someday Life Feedback again.
I disagree with your judgment about Tekkai, Shigan, and Kamie.
Tekkai and Shigan are very similar from what I've observed, and they both are weaker than Busoushoku (CoA) Haki. They can be developed, but I think the very ambition to develop them further unleashes CoA, and they just become CoA techniques. Kamie involves responding to an opponent's actions with very fluid and flexible evasive movements. Kenbunshoku (CoO) Haki pushes that further, with actual prediction and conscious decision-making on the opponent's moves. The fluid and flexible movements seem to be a result of Life Return, which manipulates the body. The Boa Sisters could also use Life Feedback, as well as manipulate flame. I'm not sure if that is directly related to Haki. It's another mystery that I can't conclude solidly.
I think the largest difference between regular Rokushiki, and Haki, is that Rokushiki can be mastered with mindless discipline and practice, but Haki mastery involves ambitions, desires, dreams, and hopes.
Kamie involves responding to an opponent's actions with very fluid and flexible evasive movements. Kenbunshoku (CoO) Haki pushes that further, with actual prediction and conscious decision-making on the opponent's moves.
That's the thing. Conscious decision making can be a disadvantage against a quicker opponent with CoO. Kami-e is like an improved version of Gomu Gomu no Boh.
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