General 'Haki' Discussion

igetownd

Pistol Kiss is a move where she physically creates an object out of… love, or something... and launches it toward the object. Remember Slave Arrows? Those even remain stuck in whatever they petrify. So they're solid objects. Hence possible to imbue with Haki.

Yeah, umm… Love isn't solid matter. However, only Hancock has done this, so I assume she can imbue Haki into non-solid objects--including non-material objects. However, Mihawk, Jinbe, and Ivankov haven't put Haki into their long distance attacks, so I'll assume they don't know how to do that. Since Rayleigh taught the Boa Sisters Haki, I'll assume he can imbue Haki into anything.

ZoroGilla

Marguerite did the same with her arrows

Coruscation

Love isn't ordinarily solid matter. This is One Piece where you can eat a magic fruit that lets you change people's personalities, or shoot a magic beam of love that petrifies anyone who feels lust. You can clearly tell that the Slave Arrows are physical and solid, that isn't debatable, so there is no reason to think that Pistol Kiss is not. It is like a pistol. Hence the name.

Are you just assuming that Rayleigh taught them Haki? That hasn't been indicated anywhere. I think you've got a bit of a weird perspective. Look instead at the difference between the long ranged moves of those characters and those of Hancock's. Hers are solid, air pressure or razor winds are not. As the poster above me says Marguerite used Haki with a long ranged move no problem, and Ben Beckman was threatening to do the same to Kizaru. It's not a matter of range vs. direct contact.

Cymelion

So latest Chapter has Zoro talking about the direction the Lake was in and Brooke exclaiming much surprise at that.

I think this is a subtle hint at Zoro's likely specialisation being Observation. Although it doesn't exclude him with getting on the wrong boat at Sabondy but well that looked played for laughs more.

Drake

@Cymelion:

So latest Chapter has Zoro talking about the direction the Lake was in and Brooke exclaiming much surprise at that.

I think this is a subtle hint at Zoro's likely specialisation being Observation. Although it doesn't exclude him with getting on the wrong boat at Sabondy but well that looked played for laughs more.

Although, there's the issue that he failed to sense the Yeti Cool Brothers before they shot the gas at them.

Neomaster121

@Drake:

Although, there's the issue that he failed to sense the Yeti Cool Brothers before they shot the gas at them.

Well is shooting booze gas a danger to someone like Zoro if he had COO

Cymelion

@Drake:

Although, there's the issue that he failed to sense the Yeti Cool Brothers before they shot the gas at them.

Yeah but they have snuck up and dissapeared against Luffy - I am thinking they must have a way of obscuring themselves until they attack and then they can be detected.

Drazgoon

Maybe you have to "ping" people before you can follow them with CoO, eventually it just happens naturally ( WB in his sleep vs ace) but until then you need a glimpse or something, if they YCB ran off quickly enough they might've gotten out of whoever's CoO range.

TheCrystalShip

We already saw on Skypiea that CoO is useless if you can't evade the attack in question.
They all saw the Cool Brothers, they just couldn't avoid being hit by the KYP gas.

goty

@TheCrystalShip:

They all saw the Cool Brothers

They saw only shadows, and Zoro still insisted that "no one was there".
That IS weird, he should be able to feel their presence too.

Just_Gabe

@Cymelion:

Then why are people still arguing over how it effects a Logia**.**

Because for some stupid reason, some fans love over thinking stupid stuff. It just hits a Logia and Rayleight clearly stated that it allows to make the logia user a solid matter. Period.

Pipio

@Just_Gabe:

Because for some stupid reason, some fans love over thinking stupid stuff. It just hits a Logia and Rayleight clearly stated that it allows to make the logia user a solid matter. Period.

The problem isn't how logia users are effected, it's more the Haki power levels. Somewhere between high tier, Haki used on Logia users will solidify them and show direct damage to the user, while low tier Haki users against logia enemies has some mixed effects for both sides.

Luffy vs CC should demonstrate the mixed effects of low level haki against a dangerous element.

Kaidonko

Luffys haki is not on low level. He 1 shotted a pacifista and kraken and would have destroyed noah if the sea king hadn't helped.

Jabra

@Kaidonko:

Luffys haki is not on low level. He 1 shotted a pacifista and kraken and would have destroyed noah if the sea king hadn't helped.

Luffy admitted it.

He said that his haki is not strong enough to protect himself from Hody's bite. He is not a complete rookie anymore, but there is lots of room for growth (and thats awesome).

We know that he can trash a Logia, as we have seen with Caribou. But well, it was just Caribou. A moron who merely stumbled uppon a Logia.

I'm pretty sure the average / high class can't be handled like that (see Admirals). It is really time for Oda to clarify why the Admirals were unaffected by it, be it by their own haki or logia mastery.

Igosuki

@Jabra:

Luffy admitted it.

He said that his haki is not strong enough to protect himself from Hody's bite. He is not a complete rookie anymore, but there is lots of room for growth (and thats awesome).

We know that he can trash a Logia, as we have seen with Caribou. But well, it was just Caribou. A moron who merely stumbled uppon a Logia.

I'm pretty sure the average / high class can't be handled like that (see Admirals). It is really time for Oda to clarify why the Admirals were unaffected by it, be it by their own haki or logia mastery.

Yes, not strong enough for a bite that could easily crush metal …

Jabra

@Igosuki:

Yes, not strong enough for a bite that could easily crush metal …

Crushing metal / buildings was impressive in east blue. Even Luffy can bite through steelchains now.

I don't say that Hody is weak (tho he isn't strong as well), but he proofs that Luffy's haki isn't as godlike as many thought it would be after the timeskip.

And again, thats a good thing.

Drazgoon

good thing, i agree, but we can all agree he's not beginner level anymore, although though he's not nearly master level either. I believe he could fend off an admiral for a bit if need be, but not defeat one.

Pipio

@Jabra:

Crushing metal / buildings was impressive in east blue. Even Luffy can bite through steelchains now.

I don't say that Hody is weak (tho he isn't strong as well), but he proofs that Luffy's haki isn't as godlike as many thought it would be after the timeskip.

And again, thats a good thing.

Exactly, Oda left plenty room for growth, other wise Luffy would be too OP in the beginning of the second part.

Although maybe saying "Low tier" wasn't the right word, would lower mid tier sound better? His haki isn't strong enough to resist his natural enemy (sharp objects), but it's strong enough to solidify weak logia users with no haki protection and probably lower mid tier haki using logia users, like smoker.

However you want to call it, Luffy's haki isn't to weak, but isn't to strong, it's in a nice sweet spot for the new world chapter.

Just_Gabe

@Pipio:

The problem isn't how logia users are effected, it's more the Haki power levels. Somewhere between high tier, Haki used on Logia users will solidify them and show direct damage to the user, while low tier Haki users against logia enemies has some mixed effects for both sides.

Luffy vs CC should demonstrate the mixed effects of low level haki against a dangerous element.

It's almost logical: if your haki is weak, you may fail at turning the logia target into solid matter, and if that logia is something like lava, you're toasted.

Pipio

@Just_Gabe:

It's almost logical: if your haki is weak, you may fail at turning the logia target into solid matter, and if that logia is something like lava, you're toasted.

I agree, it's pretty much logical, but the middle ground I believe is what needs explained or at least I'm excited to see it explained. Since there has to be a middle ground between solidifying, and not being able to defend against the logia's element. It should also be pretty interesting to see haki used as a defense against an element that doesn't have a solid or liquid form, like haki preventing smoke or poisonous gases from being inhaled.

Igosuki

@Pipio:

Exactly, Oda left plenty room for growth, other wise Luffy would be too OP in the beginning of the second part.

Although maybe saying "Low tier" wasn't the right word, would lower mid tier sound better? His haki isn't strong enough to resist his natural enemy (sharp objects), but it's strong enough to solidify weak logia users with no haki protection and probably lower mid tier haki using logia users, like smoker.

However you want to call it, Luffy's haki isn't to weak, but isn't to strong, it's in a nice sweet spot for the new world chapter.

Sorry to disappoint but Luffy is already close to what you would call the upper tier…

TheCrystalShip

Luffy is like… Ace-strength. And Ace was one-shotted by an Admiral, so...

RomanceDawn

@TheCrystalShip:

Luffy is like… Ace-strength. And Ace was one-shotted by an Admiral, so...

Two shotted! But he still took on Aokiji's attack pretty well.

TheCrystalShip

@RomanceDawn:

Two shotted! But he still took on Aokiji's attack pretty well.

I think that if Luffy fought an Admiral now, he would do remarkably well, but he would still lose.

Redx

Neomaster121

@Redx:

I have to say after watching that i completely agree, though think the video could have been half the length if it was for the continuing shouting and repeating

I've always said that asura was Armour haki (still remember the twats who said it was fast moving arms and head) and in fact this guys explanation seems plausible, it even has that perfect contrast between COO and COA

Pipio

@Neomaster121:

I have to say after watching that i completely agree, though think the video could have been half the length if it was for the continuing shouting and repeating

I've always said that asura was Armour haki (still remember the twats who said it was fast moving arms and head) and in fact this guys explanation seems plausible, it even has that perfect contrast between COO and COA

Watched the video, his thoughts are pretty much the standard assumption of what Haki is. I think this specialized forms of Haki will become more apparent in the future once we see other characters outside of the straw hat crew using it.

One thing I'm curious about, is if there's a specialized form of COC? Rayleigh stated Coc could be used to intimidate your enemies, but we've seen Luffy inspire people similar to a muse, to the point that the ones inspired perform to the maximum of their abilities. This could be a second trait of Coc, or a subconscious effect that people with coc do naturally.

TheCrystalShip

@Pipio:

One thing I'm curious about, is if there's a specialized form of COC? Rayleigh stated Coc could be used to intimidate your enemies, but we've seen Luffy inspire people similar to a muse, to the point that the ones inspired perform to the maximum of their abilities. This could be a second trait of Coc, or a subconscious effect that people with coc do naturally.

Oh my god, I was JUST thinking that this morning, as I was eating Rice Krispies!
I would not be surprised if Luffy's ability to make powerful allies, was a manifestation of CoC.

Additionally, Shanks's version of CoC affects objects as well as people.
Remember when Whitebeard's deck was being destroyed?

Redx

@Neomaster121:

I have to say after watching that i completely agree, though think the video could have been half the length if it was for the continuing shouting and repeating

I've always said that asura was Armour haki (still remember the twats who said it was fast moving arms and head) and in fact this guys explanation seems plausible, it even has that perfect contrast between COO and COA

lol yeah, he does that a lot.

I've met one of those retards and I can't honestly comprehend how they think there would be a point to Asura if it was just moving your arms, legs and head around really fast. Are they honestly telling me that Zoro is standing there spinning his head around to make it look like he has 3? Thats fucking stupid. Thats really fucking stupid. What would that even accomplish if was just fast movement? and why would he even need to make himself look like asura with that speed when he could just use the speed to attack? Theres also the fact that it would be a complete waste of energy.

Law of the sea

@Jabra:

Luffy admitted it.

He said that his haki is not strong enough to protect himself from Hody's bite. He is not a complete rookie anymore, but there is lots of room for growth (and thats awesome).

We know that he can trash a Logia, as we have seen with Caribou. But well, it was just Caribou. A moron who merely stumbled uppon a Logia.

I'm pretty sure the average / high class can't be handled like that (see Admirals). It is really time for Oda to clarify why the Admirals were unaffected by it, be it by their own haki or logia mastery.

You said yourself that haki can be used for protection add to that during the war the vice admirals did some cp9 ability's and cp9 had one for protection as well so Akainu could have being use that with haki for double protection also vice admirals need to learn basic haki to get the rank also it was said some where that all vice admirals know haki of course they would all have different experience with haki and it would be at least a year or more between most of them going vice admiral to admiral because a admiral spot was most likely not as open as it's now.

I think Smoker will most likely be a admiral within a year of one piece time because he is going to get the credit for taking in all the bad guys Luffy defeats in the new world just like he did with crocodile so he will not have as much time to master haki as the other admirals did.

Drake

@TheCrystalShip:

I think that if Luffy fought an Admiral now, he would do remarkably well, but he would still lose.

I'd agree, except if it was against Akainu.
All of the admirals up to this point have a huge tolerance to damage too. Akainu getting quake-haki punched by Newgate is a testament to that.

Luffy's gear second speed will probably help a lot against logias as well .

Pipio

@Redx:

lol yeah, he does that a lot.

I've met one of those retards and I can't honestly comprehend how they think there would be a point to Asura if it was just moving your arms, legs and head around really fast. Are they honestly telling me that Zoro is standing there spinning his head around to make it look like he has 3? Thats fucking stupid. Thats really fucking stupid. What would that even accomplish if was just fast movement? and why would he even need to make himself look like asura with that speed when he could just use the speed to attack? Theres also the fact that it would be a complete waste of energy.

If I remember right, didn't Oda state Asura wasn't haki in an interview? I think the theory of the fast moving limbs probably came out after his statement, but Oda probably didn't confirm Asura was Haki because Haki wasn't officially introduced yet, and if Asura is a specialized Haki, it shouldn't be considered a standard Haki move.

Redx

@Pipio:

If I remember right, didn't Oda state Asura wasn't haki in an interview? I think the theory of the fast moving limbs probably came out after his statement, but Oda probably didn't confirm Asura was Haki because Haki wasn't officially introduced yet, and if Asura is a specialized Haki, it shouldn't be considered a standard Haki move.

Nah, Oda never stated it wasn't haki.

The fast limbs theory is still retarded. It doesn't matter when it arose.

No one said Asura was a standard haki move. Someone would have to be pretty stupid to think that it was.

loner89

Does anyone else want that nami,robin, usopp,chopper,brook and franky should learn haki? there kinda helpless against logia and other haki opponents plus it would be so awesome how powerfull they would become. specially nami and usopp they don't have devil fruit powers,i think they should learn haki the most.

Ace of Spades

@loner89:

Does anyone else want that nami,robin, usopp,chopper,brook and franky should learn haki? there kinda helpless against logia and other haki opponents plus it would be so awesome how powerfull they would become. specially nami and usopp they don't have devil fruit powers,i think they should learn haki the most.

I think they will learn it slowly but surely. You can't have everyone learning haki right after the time skip. Its barely been a few days after the TS in manga time, so have a little patience. Haki is basically will-power, and we have seen that the SHs all have a very strong will. Robin atleast knows a fair bit about haki, and maybe others know about it too. But I am sure all of them will eventually have it.

Kishido

I have no doubts that some if not all will have one sort of haki at least. But I don't think they will ever be master users

Jabra

@Ace:

I think they will learn it slowly but surely. You can't have everyone learning haki right after the time skip. Its barely been a few days after the TS in manga time, so have a little patience. Haki is basically will-power, and we have seen that the SHs all have a very strong will. Robin atleast knows a fair bit about haki, and maybe others know about it too. But I am sure all of them will eventually have it.

I don't think haki suits Franky. What I want to see is seastone gear. Hardest metal known so far, disables DF users (including logias), Vegapunk uses it, Franky studied Vegapunks stuff etc. It would be awkward if he would not use it. He also doesn't need to protect himself because his body is already tank'ish.

For Robin I could see dodge haki working, since getting hit is her only weak spot. Same goes for Nami, and her weird ability to "sense" weather changes could be a hint.

As for Chopper / Brook / Usopp….not sure. Armor haki seems to be necessary by the end of the series, tho Brook and Usopp could compensate with their own unique abilities - which could turn into anything as their strength progresses.

moe lester518

I think as a sharpshooter usopp should have the COO, but only where he can be aware of where people are.

Ace of Spades

@Jabra:

I don't think haki suits Franky. What I want to see is seastone gear. Hardest metal known so far, disables DF users (including logias), Vegapunk uses it, Franky studied Vegapunks stuff etc. It would be awkward if he would not use it. He also doesn't need to protect himself because his body is already tank'ish.

For Robin I could see dodge haki working, since getting hit is her only weak spot. Same goes for Nami, and her weird ability to "sense" weather changes could be a hint.

As for Chopper / Brook / Usopp….not sure. Armor haki seems to be necessary by the end of the series, tho Brook and Usopp could compensate with their own unique abilities - which could turn into anything as their strength progresses.

Franky maybe a cyborg, but he is still human or part human. Haki does not make one invincible, but it does help out a lot in tricky situations. I am pretty sure all of them will have haki, at some point.

I am not sure about the seastone gear, cause if thats possible, then why not give zoro seastone sword as well. There were some people who wanted that for zoro. Also, it does not seem all that great anyway, cause we haven't seen anyone except smoker use it, and even then it was not enough to achieve a victory. Haki seems more useful in a battle, imo.

And haki is something that everyone has available, they only have to awaken it. It does seem quite common in the NW.

Pipio

@Ace:

Franky maybe a cyborg, but he is still human or part human. Haki does not make one invincible, but it does help out a lot in tricky situations. I am pretty sure all of them will have haki, at some point.

I am not sure about the seastone gear, cause if thats possible, then why not give zoro seastone sword as well. There were some people who wanted that for zoro. Also, it does not seem all that great anyway, cause we haven't seen anyone except smoker use it, and even then it was not enough to achieve a victory. Haki seems more useful in a battle, imo.

And haki is something that everyone has available, they only have to awaken it. It does seem quite common in the NW.

Agreed, even if Franky or Zoro used sea stone, they would need Haki to protect it from being destroyed by a DF user;for example Law cutting up sea stone lined warships with his ability.

Bluenose

@moe:

I think as a sharpshooter usopp should have the COO, but only where he can be aware of where people are.

Actually I'd rather have Usopp learning CoA (remember those haki filled arrows from Amazon Lilly), but since he's using pop greens now CoA wouldn't make an awful lot of difference in his attacks… unless he's still planing on using Metallic Star :ninja:

Kaidonko

Aokiji is a perfect example of how to use logia againts haki users. Remember that whitebeard stabbed Aokiji with haki but Aokiji just created a hole in his own stomach to avoid the blow and counter-attack at the same time.

Pipio

When imbuing projectiles, do you think the user needs to maintain the haki surrounding the object the entire time? or is it a one time deal, like you could imbue an arrow and leave it for awhile without it losing the charge.

Bluenose

@Pipio:

When imbuing projectiles, do you think the user needs to maintain the haki surrounding the object the entire time? or is it a one time deal, like you could imbue an arrow and leave it for awhile without it losing the charge.

I think it's a one time deal.

Law of the sea

Asura was a ability he most likely gained from his cursed sword lol.

Redx

@Law:

Asura was a ability he most likely gained from his cursed sword lol.

Lolno. The sword being cursed was just a bunch of stupid hype. We haven't seen a single thing from it to even suggest that it is actually cursed let alone has ANYTHING to do with Asura.

That is a ridiculous assumption.

Drake

@Redx:

Lolno. The sword being cursed was just a bunch of stupid hype. We haven't seen a single thing from it to even suggest that it is actually cursed let alone has ANYTHING to do with Asura.

That is a ridiculous assumption.

Hence the "lol" he posted, I dont think he was serious.
And I dont think it's just stupid hype, I wouldn't be surprised if cursed swords or cursed items play a huge role later on in the story.

TheCrystalShip

@Drake:

And I dont think it's just stupid hype, I wouldn't be surprised if cursed swords or cursed items play a huge role later on in the story.

Sandai Kitetsu is the weakest of the three Kitetsu swords, though.
Shodai Kitetsu is on par with Mihawk's sword, so its curse is probably the real deal

Coruscation

Zoro felt the sword's presence when Chopper was running around with it in Water Seven. It may not have been brought up for a long time but I don't think the curse of the three Kitetsu swords is something that Oda has forgotten or has no plans for. I personally hope and think it's not what causes Ashura though. I want that to be the manifestation of Zoro's own killer spirit, turned outward into a weapon.

Just_Gabe

@Pipio:

When imbuing projectiles, do you think the user needs to maintain the haki surrounding the object the entire time? or is it a one time deal, like you could imbue an arrow and leave it for awhile without it losing the charge.

Kuja tribe's haki-powered arrows?