This post is deleted!
General 'Haki' Discussion
-
This post is deleted!
-
You forgot the palm thing and the haki arrows as pretimeskip CoA.
I forgot about the arrows but the palm thing goes with what I was saying, it was used to nullify DF powers and as such didn't require a visual aide to know Haki was being used.
None of those examples used a visual color change cue. Hell, even during the war where there should be really experienced haki users there and we know haki was being used I dont remember any body parts or weapons turning black
This is more or less my point, without a visual aide or someone flat out saying it it's impossible to know if Haki is being used against a non DF user…whether or not it's the skin darkening I think there will need to be some kind of visual difference between Haki reinforced and non-reinforced attacks for all characters.
To those who are saying the blackening is just a visual clue.I tell you there are many better ways to do a visual clue-This isnt one of them.
Here is an example of Oda giving us a visual clue.! http://www.mangareader.net/103-56928-14/one-piece/chapter-597.htmlYou can actually see the CoA haki around Rayleighs hand.Another example of a visual clue is in Naruto-when Naruto is gathering Sage chakra- here
! http://www.mangareader.net/93-436-18/naruto/chapter-431.html.
You can clearly see in those cases those are visual clues.On the other hand-the hand blackening looks like actual hand blackening.I don't see anything around his hand in the first page you linked and as for the second I don't think we should be using Naruto to disprove One Piece theories.
-
I don't see anything around his hand in the first page you linked and as for the second I don't think we should be using Naruto to disprove One Piece theories.
There's a weird aura around Rayleigh's hand. I can see it pretty clearly.
-
There's a weird aura around Rayleigh's hand. I can see it pretty clearly.
His hand is visible in 1 panel and looks like an ordinary hand to me…either I'm going blind or the 2 of you mean his foot in the second panel? In which case that looks like it's to display the impact not Haki.
Edit: Ok it looks like everyone is talking about this page? Which is different than the one he linked…anyway, when he blocks the elephant's attack yes there is something around his hand(though that looks like the impact of the elephant hitting his invisible armor more than a visual representation of Haki itself) but when he "attacks" Luffy via flicking his noes it looks no different than his normal hand.
-
This post is deleted!
-
I forgot about the arrows but the palm thing goes with what I was saying, it was used to nullify DF powers and as such didn't require a visual aide to know Haki was used.
The flick is the DF Defense nullifying move. The palm is the attack deflection move.
-
[QUOTE=Cleatus;2387063
Edit: Ok it looks like everyone is talking about this page? Which is different than the one he linked…anyway, when he blocks the elephant's attack yes there is something around his hand(though that looks like the impact of the elephant hitting his invisible armor more than a visual representation of Haki itself) but when he "attacks" Luffy via flicking his noes it looks no different than his normal hand.
No actually I was talking about this page-http://www.mangareader.net/103-56928-14/one-piece/chapter-597.html.Look carefully at the Rayleighs hand You can see a weird aura thing surrounding it.If Oda wanted us to have a visual clue he wold have kept using that weird Aura thing for a visual clueFrom what I understand, CoA can be used in two different ways:
1 - Invisible armor that can be used for defense and/or to hit DF users (i. e. Sentomaru's Ashigara Dokkoi).
2 - Power up attacks (i. e. Luffy's hardening, Kuja's arrows, etc).Is this correct?
At the moment not all the details.Is known.What is known is this
CoA haki has two main abilities
1.Create an Invisible armor that can be used for defense/offense.
2.Imbue in weapons to make them more powerful.
The Invisible armor and Imbued object can both be used to bypass Devil fruit defences.
Now what is unclear is how Imbuing CoA haki in weapons/objects makes it more powerful.There are 2 main theories on explaining how Imbuing works.
Theory 1
Some say Imbuing CoA haki in weapons hardens it.This of course raises the question as to Why all haki users weve seen have never imbued their body with haki to make it harder.The best defence is that they cant-Imbuing can not be used on body-flesh. Which would mean they Haki users use CoA haki for 2 main abilities
1.Armor ability-.power to create an invisible armor around the users body.2.Hardening ability-this is the power to Harden objects not the Users body.A good example is the Kuja arrows.
Luffy therefore would be an exception to the rule though-He hardens his body!This most likely has to do with the fact he is not made of Body flesh but Rubber.So he can do what other Haki users cantTheory 2
Others who disagree with the theory above-piont out that Rayleigh said CoA haki is an Invisible suit of armor that can be extended to weapons.This could mean that Imbuing objects/weapons with CoA haki is simply covering it with an Invisible armor.Which means CoA haki is simply one ability-The ability to create armor around both objects and body.
This off course raises the question as to how Luffy is hardening his body using nothing both Armor.The best explanation is this
Luffy compresses/contracts the CoA armor around a body part and It causes an Instant rise in Pressure and Temperature of that Body part.In the presence of Heat,Pressure and a suitable agent(CoA haki in this case),Rubber Vulcanizes.The hardening ability therefore is an application of Coa haki to vulcanize Luffys Rubber body parts. -
The flick is the DF Defense nullifying move. The palm is the attack deflection move.
Poor choice of words on my part, I did mean the deflection move not the nullifying DF powers…anyway seeing as how that move(to my knowledge) was only used to deflect DF attacks until Rayleigh uses it on the elephant(at which point he stated he was using Haki) it didn't require a visual representation as it was obvious Haki was being used.
Just to reiterate: I don't necessarily think that the skin darkening will be the signature look for CoA attacks just that there will need to be some kind of visual distinction between CoA attacks and non and so far the skin darkening is the only contender.
No actually I was talking about this page-http://www.mangareader.net/103-56928-14/one-piece/chapter-597.html.Look carefully at the Rayleighs hand You can see a weird aura thing surrounding it.If Oda wanted us to have a visual clue he wold have kept using that weird Aura thing for a visual clue
After finding a different version of that chapter I can see what you're talking about now(the white background in that one makes it near impossible for me to see) and TBH I think this only furthers my point, Oda felt the need to give a visual representation there since it wasn't implied that Rayleigh was using Haki otherwise…when fighting a logia and actually damaging their body it is implied Haki is being used and requires no visual aide, the fact that Luffy is the only one to be shown fighting a non DF user with Haki attacks and that his Haki attacks are given a visual distinction from his normal attacks implies one is required whether it's skin darkening for everyone or the aura from that chapter for other characters.
-
His hand is visible in 1 panel and looks like an ordinary hand to me…either I'm going blind or the 2 of you mean his foot in the second panel? In which case that looks like it's to display the impact not Haki.
Edit: Ok it looks like everyone is talking about this page? Which is different than the one he linked…anyway, when he blocks the elephant's attack yes there is something around his hand(though that looks like the impact of the elephant hitting his invisible armor more than a visual representation of Haki itself) but when he "attacks" Luffy via flicking his noes it looks no different than his normal hand.
No. Go to the page linked by Cleatus and compare the gray background color with the white color around Rayleigh's hand. The white color forms the shape of an aura.
-
If you want to argue that. I'm not aware of any armor known to man that you put "into" your body.
And "armor" in a general sense isn't supposed to be "hard" but rather it's supposed to be "tough." That's why there's armor made out of material like leather and kevlar.
That is what Rayleigh said, though. That Haki can be imbued "into" objects and weapons. In your opinion when the Kuja use their arrows, is it in fact not he arrows themselves that connect with the target but rather an invisible force field around them?
Regardless, Rayleigh was saying something along the lines of "…if your armor is strong enough, of course it can be used for attack". That leads me to visualize someone wearing like, a steel glove and punching his opponent. As in, that is the manner in which the attack would be strengthened, not that when Ray flicked Luffy he in fact didn't connect physically with him. What does that line mean to you?
The "armor" as I see it is more of a hypothetical thing. As in, Haki will have an effect similar to if you were wearing armor - make the attack stronger, make your defense better - but there is no armor there. Luffy isn't going to stop hitting people with his fists in the future and instead hit them with the invisible force field around his hand, see what I mean? Shanks certainly used his sword to block Akainu, not a mystical force field around the sword. Just a sword imbued with Haki. Fists or legs or what have you would be the same. In that way Haki is typically internal. I think it's just the "shield" technique that focuses the armor outwards.
What's the point of the 2nd part/subset if it's just what naturally happens when he uses haki? I don't get the logic there. Manga dialog is usually more concise than anything.
Listen, I don't think Luffy will be using armor haki without using this technique much, if at all. The visual cue is important, and from what I can see Oda has absolutely no reason to abandon it unless he wishes to be intentionally ambiguous.
It could just be what he calls it.
Okay, so do you think Luffy used the "other" Haki when he attacked Hody? Has he used it at any time since the Pacifista? And how exactly are we going to know? I'm still very, very confused at the moment if the black limbs don't represent simply Haki usage in general.
-
Eh, I'm not sure how many more times I can't stand to say this. It's like it goes in one ear and out the other. Yes, Luffy's hand/leg/etc turning black provides a visual cue to the readers for when he's using haki. I see no reason to dispute this. Yes, he's still using normal haki on top of it. The black limbs do indeed represent Luffy using haki.
No, this does not mean that the black limbs are the result of simply using normal, vanilla haki by itself. There's no reason to make such a logical leap. There's more to it than that.
-
Does anyone know if Oda plans to introduce more Haki beyond the 3 we know?
Hope we see what Haki Zoro/Sanji have strengthened in post time skip.
-
So you're saying when Luffy uses Haki, he will use both "types" and we will know through the black limbs? But he did use only one to destroy the Pacifista, apparently, the one that has no visual cue by itself. Curiously, Rayleigh commented on seeing that how Luffy has "developed his skills further yet". That makes it sound to me like whatever he did against the Pacifista was something beyond the "basics".
But why can't it be the result of simply using Haki on rubber? We don't really know what Armament Haki in its most basic form is like. May be that it starts out as something external and this is what happened when Luffy turned it inwards, so to speak. Other people could turn it inward as well but the effect wouldn't be the same since only Luffy is rubber.
Compare Luffy blocking Hody to Rayleigh blocking the elephant. In practice the effect is identical - the attack is stopped and the assailant hurts his own leg - but Rayleigh uses a "shield" while Luffy hardens his own body. To me this speaks of two different ways to use it.
-
So you're saying when Luffy uses Haki, he will use both "types" and we will know through the black limbs? But he did use only one to destroy the Pacifista, apparently, the one that has no visual cue by itself. Curiously, Rayleigh commented on seeing that how Luffy has "developed his skills further yet". That makes it sound to me like whatever he did against the Pacifista was something beyond the "basics".
But why can't it be the result of simply using Haki on rubber? We don't really know what Armament Haki in its most basic form is like. May be that it starts out as something external and this is what happened when Luffy turned it inwards, so to speak. Other people could turn it inward as well but the effect wouldn't be the same since only Luffy is rubber.
Compare Luffy blocking Hody to Rayleigh blocking the elephant. In practice the effect is identical - the attack is stopped and the assailant hurts his own leg - but Rayleigh uses a "shield" while Luffy hardens his own body. To me this speaks of two different ways to use it.
He used COO to avoid Pacifista's laser attack, saying it was 'too slow' (a clue there.) and used COA + Jet Pistol and took him out.
Simples.
-
I know that is what happened (well it's questionable if he used CoO but whatever). The point was that he seemed to do something more than just "use basic Haki" since Rayleigh commented on it the way he did.
-
I know that is what happened (well it's questionable if he used CoO but whatever). The point was that he seemed to do something more than just "use basic Haki" since Rayleigh commented on it the way he did.
Well you have to consider Luffy is pretty special as he learned all haki 6 months before Rayleigh wanted to teach him all, so it makes sense the pupil here will surprise and eventually surpass the teacher. Sort of like a prodigy.
-
But why can't it be the result of simply using Haki on rubber?
Do you just have a habit of pressing the repeat button when you debate something? I'm not going to keep doing this.
-
Urouge, do you think Blackbeard and his crew will use a lot of haki in the new world?
He can't surely hope to conquer the Grand Line on DF power alone?
Someone mentioned to me he might have COO to guage power levels and although it looks he has COA when he renders DF powers useless when he sucks them in, it looks more like DF effects for his original DF.
(Apologies for all the abbreviations, lol. )
-
Haki backwards is Ikah, what does this mean?
Nothing
-
Did you just read that and then go on to ignore the rest of the paragraph, or what?
-
Did you just read that and then go on to ignore the rest of the paragraph, or what?
I ignored the whole thread to be honest…
-
That wasn't to you… >_>
-
After finding a different version of that chapter I can see what you're talking about now(the white background in that one makes it near impossible for me to see) and TBH I think this only furthers my point, Oda felt the need to give a visual representation there since it wasn't implied that Rayleigh was using Haki otherwise…when fighting a logia and actually damaging their body it is implied Haki is being used and requires no visual aide
When Oda felt he needed to visually represent CoA haki,you saw he represented CoA haki as a weird Aura.Not blackened limbs-Aura.Thats the visual clue!What Luffy did was didfferent he actually hardens his hand with Haki and we actually see it harden
The "armor" as I see it is more of a hypothetical thing. As in, Haki will have an effect similar to if you were wearing armor - make the attack stronger, make your defense better - but there is no armor there. Luffy isn't going to stop hitting people with his fists in the future and instead hit them with the invisible force field around his hand, see what I mean?
No hell be hitting them with his fists and the Invisible Armor hes wearing
I dont see the Armor as being that much hypothetical.There is an invisble forcefield there that behaves likes a suit of Armor.However he is somehow able to use this Armor to harden.I find it interesting that each time he ants to use haki attacks he must use the hardening as well as the Armor to attack.My guess isthat the Armor on its own is very weak so thats why he created a hardening technique. -
@Jumping:
I ignored the whole thread to be honest…
Haha. Joker.
Whats your favourite haki?
-
I dunno. I've always viewed it as the attack-empowering aspect being "internal" but the defensive aspect i.e. the "Haki shield" being external. Only, when Luffy turns his Haki inwards it hardens his rubber body to create something useful for both defense and attack.
you saw he represented CoA haki as a weird Aura.Not blackened limbs-Aura.Thats the visual clue!
That doesn't really work though unless you think he is going to put a "weird aura" around Luffy when he uses CoA the "normal way".
-
Did you just read that and then go on to ignore the rest of the paragraph, or what?
If you had questioned that I ignored a different paragraph, you might have a point. Maybe I could have responded to the first one. But no, I've heard the entirety of the paragraph from you before. And lest you've forgotten your own posts:
The AL warriors imbue Haki into their arrows to make them stronger by a "hardening" principle (Luffy: "Are those arrows made out of steel!?"). Luffy imbues Haki into his body to make it stronger by a hardening principle. Is there any particular reason these need to be two different things, rather than the same technique simply working that way on rubber?
The stuff about the difference between internal and external came up in your very next post. I've read it all before, and responded to the very question you asked before.
-
I dunno. I've always viewed it as the attack-empowering aspect being "internal" but the defensive aspect i.e. the "Haki shield" being external. Only, when Luffy turns his Haki inwards it hardens his rubber body to create something useful for both defense and attack.
That doesn't really work though unless you think he is going to put a "weird aura" around Luffy when he uses CoA the "normal way".My piont is that he will never use it the normal way.The normal way is too weak for him so he uses hardening as well.
-
Haha. Joker.
Whats your favourite haki?
I prefer Batman…
And Color of Observation coz it's badass
-
@Jumping:
I prefer Batman…
And Color of Observation coz it's badass
I bet you'd prefer Catwoman tho…
It's a bit limited when you can overcome it with superior speed.
I like COA (SR vs. Kizaru a fav). Luffy's variant looks interesting tbh.
-
I bet you'd prefer Catwoman tho…
It's a bit limited when you can overcome it with superior speed.
I like COA (SR vs. Kizaru a fav). Luffy's variant looks interesting tbh.
Are you coming on to me? :blink:
-
@Jumping:
Are you coming on to me? :blink:
Lol no, I was been polite and replying to your comments.
-
Lol no, I was been polite and replying to your comments.
Oh, my bad, I misinterpreted your comments. Sorry.
-
Eh, I'm not sure how many more times I can't stand to say this. It's like it goes in one ear and out the other. Yes, Luffy's hand/leg/etc turning black provides a visual cue to the readers for when he's using haki. I see no reason to dispute this. Yes, he's still using normal haki on top of it. The black limbs do indeed represent Luffy using haki.
No, this does not mean that the black limbs are the result of simply using normal, vanilla haki by itself. There's no reason to make such a logical leap. There's more to it than that.
Agree: the fact that, when Luffy punched Surume, nobody said something like: "What the hell: why is his hand black like that?" says that, IMO.
-
Am I the only one thinking Chopper has some kind of CoO? Considering the last chapter…
He is underground, yet says something like "the scent of an enemy.. Usopp, duck!". Now this could simply be a reference to his smelling sense, but then how would he know to tell usopp to DUCK? I'm thinking he has developed some kind of CoO in his training, perhaps a type of CoO which relies on his sense of smell somehow (we still don't know enough about CoO to know all the details on how it works, so this is entirely possible imo).
-
if he knows the smell of an enemy, he should sure as hell know Ussop's smell. So I don't think Chopper has CoO at this moment. We have already had examples that Chopper has a very usefull nose and a good sense of smell and direction
(Edit: Lol, I wrote Ussop had a very usefull nose. . .
It's just so big and fallic it can't be ignored. It's like when Austin Powers had that guy with the gigantic mole in front of him and he just couldn't ignore it)
-
I don't think that Chopper possesses CoO right now, but I kinda like the notion that he maybe could add a little twist to CoO(when/if he learns it) with his nose in the same vein Enels DF enhanced his CoO.
-
I don't think that Chopper possesses CoO right now, but I kinda like the notion that he maybe could add a little twist to CoO(when/if he learns it) with his nose in the same vein Enels DF enhanced his CoO.
I'm thinking something along these lines as well, that he has his own "twist" to CoO using his nose. The reason I'm not sufficed with him simply having a good sense of smell (to explain the above-mentioned scenario) is that he told Usopp to DUCK. This implies two things; 1) He knew the enemy is ATTACKING 2) He knew the correct course of action to take (duck) in order to dodge the attack. These two things cannot be explained by simply having a good sense of smell. With smell only, he could have known that an enemy is approaching Usopp, perhaps instigating him to say something like "Usopp, watch out!", but to tell him to actually DUCK means that he knew more than that.
-
Or maybe he told Usopp to duck in order to avoid his own attack, rather than Dosun's.
-
Or maybe he told Usopp to duck in order to avoid his own attack, rather than Dosun's.
Sounds plausible. However I think there's something more to it than just that, since he did comment on the scent of an enemy before that. Also, I don't know if the mangastream trans is correct, but the scent is written is 'The "scent" of an enemy' (similar to how others would refer to 'The "voice" of an enemy'), perhaps further confirming the smell-"CoO" connection.
I've also just thought of another possible explanation, which could possibly explain this scenario even without CoO. I don't know if there's anyone here who reads Toriko, but for those who do; what if Chopper has developed his sense of smell to work something like Zebras "voice map", but in this case, a "smell map"? Perhaps his sense of smell is developed to the point where he can "see" (in close-to realtime) in places where his eyes cannot. This would mean that he would be able to know that Usopp had to duck, without being able to PREDICT it (like with CoO).
EDIT: PS. I am well aware of the fact that none of these have to be true, I'm just trying to get an interesting discussion going since I do think that it is a plausible theory that it could be something more than just his sense of smell involved in this case.
-
But if he smelled the enemy he would know where he was, generally speaking, and could aim for that area–again, asking Usopp to duck his own attack. Still no proof of CoO IMHO.
-
It's so damn obvious that Chopper didn't use anything Haki related here, why do you guys always need this as an explanation for everything?! It's seriously annoying, I have to say. This same scene would happen in any other manga without Haki, and no one would question it - smell is THE explanation for why Chopper knew where to aim. And why he knew Usopp was there too. What's the problem with that?! Just because Haki exists in the world of One Piece doesn't mean that from now on it should replace all other common manga explanations. Give it a rest already.
-
Thank you, Juvar, for saying that.
Seriously, it's like every time a character dodges an attack or senses someone, everyone automatically assumes it's Haki.
-
What I'm confused about is why haki needs to be capitalized. :ninja: It's not a technique.
Edit: (_ _ し) What to do about the humorlessness in this thread…
-
because it's not just ambition. It's Ambition with a capitol A. If you don't even have the resolve to use caps you don't belong here.
-
Z@JonesDking:
My piont is that he will never use it the normal way.The normal way is too weak for him so he uses hardening as well.
What do you mean he will never use it the normal way? He took out PX-5 with normal Haki and Gear Second. Not to mention VDD and some NFP. I believe he hardens his limbs to attack opponents with armor or are extreamely tough.. I dont believe he can strench an harden limb..
-
Chopper said he smelled an enemy. But no, instead of using logic you just assume every single stupid being has haki.
I can see those same guys at the street wondering if their neighbor has haki just because he gives them a chill everytime they look into their eyes.
Yep, totally CoC. No doubts kids.
-
Think about it this way: Haki (whichever of the three) is the user's hidden potential. It's more than ambition or willpower, as its literal translation would be, but a discovery; "how" depends on the person. Proceeding to the next level, it becomes the user himself; the moment of awakening. What follows is manipulation of that power through experience (in CoC's case, it grows with the user's wisdom; Luffy isn't too smart, but he's rather wise for someone so young).
It is NOT like how moves are gained in video games. There is no specific "level" for someone to reach. Just because so and so character trained the living hell out of him/herself means nothing in regard. Besides, it's not like they all trained the same way. (By some miracle that Rayleigh visited every other Straw Hat member, they still wouldn't have obtained it in the same time that Luffy took.)
Oda's greatest problem with Haki should be drawing it. How do you show something in picture that can't be seen/ confused for a random dramatic action? So, he has to have someone to mention/hint at it. The "vulcanization" is just another result of the power, as in a new technique/skill. I'm sure Luffy will have other skills from combining his abilities, sooner or later.
As for literal willpower, think how Luffy (normally) thinks. With meat.
-
because it's not just ambition. It's Ambition with a capitol A. If you don't even have the resolve to use caps you don't belong here.
You Tell em'
I'm more interested in how they animated haki, it looked like rayleigh shot a beam at the thing, I wonder if luffy will be able to do that?
-
I have a very simple definition for Haki: "tangible willpower."
-
Everything is haki now. Forget the days when someone dodge an attack cuz of good reflexes, now it is CoO. Forget the days where people could island splitting punches without it being CoA… and forget the days where people were knocked out by shock or by a beat down... it will be CoC