The only reason Oda had him mention the side effect of kings haki is either so Luffy won't use it for a while or so he can master it as soon as possible.
General 'Haki' Discussion
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Rayleigh's words were cryptic, but at this point I'm pretty doubtful. So far (covering my bases so I don't look like a jackass in the future) it has been about strength of will and not body. So I can't see it having more of an effect because someone is physically exhausted. The other crew members should be fine as long as they're as least as resolute as Buggy.
Then again Kiai is a yell before punching in Karate training.
Actually, it's during a move.
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i dont see point in thread we already know what the haki does? i doubt it gets stronger in any way but Oda might pull a fast one and have luffy come up with a new haki
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i dont see point in thread we already know what the haki does? i doubt it gets stronger in any way but Oda might pull a fast one and have luffy come up with a new haki
Color of Gum Gum :ninja:
I am Mansopp the most manliest man to ever man.
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I wonder what would happen if a DF user was able to put on a full suit of armor haki, and they jumped in the ocean.
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I wonder what would happen if a DF user was able to put on a full suit of armor haki, and they jumped in the ocean.
the suit will be too heavy for him so he will drown eventually!!
What is Oden saying to WB?
Become my son Whitebeard.
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the suit will be too heavy for him so he will drown eventually!!
It would be cool though :D
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I wonder what would happen if a DF user was able to put on a full suit of armor haki, and they jumped in the ocean.
We haven't actually seen anyone just surround themselves with COA Haki. Every time it's been used for defense, the character did a blocking motion and used Haki to strengthen it.
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I'm sure Kidd and/or Law will develop King's Haki.
Being among the leading pirates of Generation Luffy.
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One day, everyone will understand that the Compass Birds are in fact the most important clue to the Void Century.
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3ds friend code: 2509-2091-9671
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@Chopper:
is he also deflecting gravity lol
Not quite.
He can push away the surface of water, but gravity isn't tangible. -
@Chopper:
is he also deflecting gravity lol
Not quite.
He can push away the surface of water, but gravity isn't tangible.Now, if he pushes away air with haki, that might be pushing it too much (pun not intended).
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Now we know all hakis… But one thing which is interesting me... Rayleigh said you will tend to one haki more than to an other but you can learn both CoO and CoA.
So what will be the different besides someone tending to CoO like for example Zoro and someone who can use it as well but tends to CoA
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Zoro will totally grow in all 3 Haki divisions.
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Zoro will totally grow in all 3 Haki divisions.
Yeah zoro is the only SH which probably will learn CoC as well… Sanji is unlikely, even if it will be hard for him that Marimo can something do, what he can't xD
But still that isn't the question. It is about tending to one form more than to the others... And what the difference will be
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One day, everyone will understand that the Compass Birds are in fact the most important clue to the Void Century.
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Yeah zoro is the only SH which probably will learn CoC as well… Sanji is unlikely, even if it will be hard for him that Marimo can something do, what he can't xD
But still that isn't the question. It is about tending to one form more than to the others... And what the difference will be
Heh I think Sanji will pull a Vegeta at that moment :P
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I theorize that all D's have CoC haki.
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@Cloud:
I theorize that all D's have CoC haki.
So would Teach have it? Or are we assuming when Whitebeard said he wasn't one of the D's, he would not have haki?
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I don't recall seeing any event where multiple forms of Haki were used simultaneously, but could it be done?
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I find both the captain and the first mate to have CoC a bit too much
Too much like the last crew that got to Raftel? Weird, huh…
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Too much like the last crew that got to Raftel? Weird, huh…
no thats different cause they also had a cabin boy who had CoC
3ds friend code: 2509-2091-9671
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Hmm, here's a problem: Luffy was seen dodging bullets and swords way before he learned about Haki. That's been attributed by everybody to quick reflexes. Now that we see that he can dodge the bullet point blank (in the latest chapter, not spoiling who's shooting), should we attribute that to Kenbunshoku (CoO) Haki or just even faster reflexes from training? Is there a point in differentiating?
Another problem, does a Haoushoku (CoC) Haki user have to sense the presence of his target, or can he just emit a Haki aura that devastates enemies? If it were the latter's case, how would he know he's hitting an enemy or a friend?
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Hmm, here's a problem: Luffy was seen dodging bullets and swords way before he learned about Haki. That's been attributed by everybody to quick reflexes. Now that we see that he can dodge the bullet point blank (in the latest chapter, not spoiling who's shooting), should we attribute that to Kenbunshoku (CoO) Haki or just even faster reflexes from training? Is there a point in differentiating?
Another problem, does a Haoushoku (CoC) Haki user have to sense the presence of his target, or can he just emit a Haki aura that devastates enemies? If it were the latter's case, how would he know he's hitting an enemy or a friend?
Oars was able to dodge Franky's Weapons Left at point blank, so it's hard to distinguish. Of course there would be this issue, and it'll be staying…
Rayleigh at the auction house was able to hit Shalua without seeing her, and I think I can attribute that to his CoO, but he didn't hit anyone else until he came out. So, in that case, I'm sure he was able to hit them all, but chose not to. Would this be an example of blended usage of haki?
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Luffy's use in the most recent chapter is definitely haki, not just reflexes. There was that frame that was kind of grayed out, and showed the path of the (not fired yet) bullet.
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Luffy's use in the most recent chapter is definitely haki, not just reflexes. There was that frame that was kind of grayed out, and showed the path of the (not fired yet) bullet.
Yes, he used haki in this case. What I'm concerned about is how it would look later on – would Oda keep that style in intense battles? It might seem a bit too tedious. But, if he doesn't, it may get confusing.
Well, whatever. The mangaka knows how to handle that.
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Haki won't make you dodge a bullet, you still need to have the reflexes to do it. Also, I don't think Oda will keep having Haki usage emphasized. During Skypiea, he didn't show us every time Mantra was used.
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Luffy's use in the most recent chapter is definitely haki, not just reflexes. There was that frame that was kind of grayed out, and showed the path of the (not fired yet) bullet.
Nope, I clearly saw the sound effect DON! before Luffy dodged. The bullet was fired. However, Luffy apparently knew about it so he just casually, but quickly, moved aside. That's why there was no reaction panel.
But that's not a reason to believe he used CoO because it was pretty obvious that fake Luffy intends to kill. Besides, Zoro and Sanji have been doing that kind of stuff before. In multiple instances, Zoro predicted his enemy's moves: Charlos, Kaku, Ohm. Sanji had also done that with Absalom and Jabura. Are we going to assume that Zoro and Sanji have CoO handled? No, we aren't.
That's because of the defining characteristic of CoO observed since Mantra was introduced: mind reading and presence location. The Monster Trio have been showing signs of prediction ability but they haven't reached that threshold of mind reading and presence location. The moment we see our heroes casually saying stuff like "a slash from behind" or "a kick on my right" or even "Oh crap a laser at 8 o'clock!", then I would say that's definitely CoO Haki.
As for my question about CoC, Luffy's usage at Marineford proved that he doesn't need to be aware of the presence of enemies and allies. Marines and pirates fell, allies and enemies, without discrimination. That's why Rayleigh said it was dangerous to use that.
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Another problem, does a Haoushoku (CoC) Haki user have to sense the presence of his target, or can he just emit a Haki aura that devastates enemies? If it were the latter's case, how would he know he's hitting an enemy or a friend?
He can use CoO to sense the presence of possible targets and be able to tell which one is friend or foe, and than attack only the enemies using CoC.
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haki has its limitations. mantra can predict movement, but it cant stop strong attacks if you dont have the reflexes to dodge them. enel couldnt dodge luffy's golden rifle even though he knew it was coming. it is the same as when luffy used gear 2nd against boa sisters. coc is only useful against fodder. coa is useful against devil fruit users but against strong opponents, it is all about strength. whitebeard used haki sword against aokiji, but aokiji blocked it with his df power, and presumably coa haki. to sum it up, its all about skills.
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Question
Was Zoro the first straw hat to use Haki when he defeated Mr1 ?
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I dunno if this question was asked but what if two haki users with color of observation fought couldn't they predict each others attacks, therefore making the battle pointless?
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@'DarkKing':
I dunno if this question was asked but what if two haki users with color of observation fought couldn't they predict each others attacks, therefore making the battle pointless?
The interaction between two colors of observation, something that is inevitable at the highest levels of battle, is something that will undoubtedly be shown in the next big fights.
As to how they will react? My guess is the person who can outmaneuver and predict the oponnents action and react the fastest, and perhaps faking or fooling CoO by constantly switching the target of your attack with no planning ahead, similar to Luffy thoughtless reactive state but actually useful.
Regardless, there will be plenty of what the smash brothers community has coined as "mindgames".
UsoppSpell!
On the eve of spoilerificaiton, you will wait until you remember it's break week.
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Regardless, there will be plenty of what the smash brothers community has coined as "mindgames".
Let the heads hit the desks.It'll be fun. -
Lol, there is actually a guy who thinks Oda rips off of Star Wars
I'm not saying there are no similiarities. What do you guys think?
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Lol, there is actually a guy who thinks Oda rips off of Star Wars
I'm not saying there are no similiarities. What do you guys think?
I say some people look a little to deep into things. Its not like the force was completely original either. An energy and balance in all living things are featured in numerous religions. Moving things without touching them has been around to. I'm also sure that knocking people out without touching them has been done before (I know Michael Jackson could do it).
Plus, in order to know about all this, one would have to be a serious Star Wars fan. Some of the things he mentioned are mostly likely only relative to those who have ventured into the "expanded universe" or done research on it. Sure Oda more than likely has seen the Star Wars films. The expanded universe… I have more doubts of. -
Lol, there is actually a guy who thinks Oda rips off of Star Wars
I'm not saying there are no similiarities. What do you guys think?
what a piece of shit thread. He's pretending like Star Wars and its expanded universe – where fans basically added multitudes of other force powers that they copied from other works-- is like this original work of art. Star Wars itself is a collection of principles found in old eastern religions, including Tai Chi and Qi.
Color of Observation: Predicting movements before they happen didn't start with Star Wars. It's based on the Kendo concept of "Sen Sen no sen" which is the ability to sense what your opponent will do before your opponent will do anything.
Plus the ability in One Piece looks nothing like what we see in Star Wars.Color of Armament: This guy is freaking retarded. He's using the expanded universe where these powers have been straight copied from other sources throughout the decades. Armament is basically just a fancy personal force-field. Again, its concept can be related to chi, feng shui, etc... where everyone has their own personal "energy field" and thus you can manipulate that field to your advantage. So theoretical force fields or interrupting the energy field of another being are possible.
Color of Conqueror: This dude is incomparably stupid here that I'm not even going to get into intimidation to the point of knocking someone out not being exclusive and original to not even Star Wars, but again its expanded universe.
Ridiculous. Everyone there should be ashamed of themselves for being ignorant.
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Lol, there is actually a guy who thinks Oda rips off of Star Wars
I'm not saying there are no similiarities. What do you guys think?
I still can't believe I read that piece of shit.
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Internet denizen is ignorant of something to the point of acting like a famous movie invented the concept.
More at eleven.
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@'DarkKing':
I dunno if this question was asked but what if two haki users with color of observation fought couldn't they predict each others attacks, therefore making the battle pointless?
I think this was demonstrated in the Whitebeard war. Whitebeard had "bad feelings" about something every time he got news of a change in situation. You can say that's just battle instinct, but then again he's a Haki user (and a master supposedly). Sengoku would have had to out-predict Whitebeard. Eventually, he did, but through an elaborate plan and a very accurate understanding of his opponent. Haki? I'd say a definite YES because you don't want to make strategies and guide an epic battle while mentally handicapped. But in Sengoku's case, he's an expert in CoO Haki, an expert in strategy, and a composed rational intellect.
As for the limitations of Haki, we don't actually know. The development of techniques using Haki can get pretty crazy. The Boa sisters used techniques that exceed the general definitions of Haki types.
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I say the following people at the mininum have or will gain King's Haki:
-Kidd
-Law
-Zoro
-Sakazuki
-Kaidou
-Big Mom
-Dragon
-CobyAll top people with more to show and rising stars who will lead the new era.
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I say the following people at the mininum have or will gain King's Haki:
-Kidd
-Law
-Zoro
-Sakazuki
-Kaidou
-Big Mom
-Dragon
-CobyAll top people with more to show and rising stars who will lead the new era.
…I'm sorry, but I laughed when I reached the end of your list. Although I'm fine with Dragon and/or the Yonkou having it, the others just haven't shown enough potential. What all CoC users have in common are a leadership quality that is unsurpassed (the exception is Ace, but he later served under another with CoC, Whitebeard). The Will of D may also play into it, but I'll keep that on hold. Also, we haven't seen enough of the other Supernovas to state firmly about their strengths.
/end rantHowever, I see why you chose these guys.
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Kidd and Law will be among the new era's greatest pirates and at least one of them will be the new era's Whitebeard. Zoro is the first mate of the next Pirate King. Coby is the boy who will help reshape the Marines into something kinder after the current regime is toppled. Sakazuki is certainly the current Fleet Admiral who will lead the Marines down a darker path.
These guys are all leaders/future leaders who will shape the world's history. The potential is there.
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Kidd and Law will be among the new era's greatest pirates and at least one of them will be the new era's Whitebeard. Zoro is the first mate of the next Pirate King. Coby is the boy who will help reshape the Marines into something kinder after the current regime is toppled. Sakazuki is certainly the current Fleet Admiral who will lead the Marines down a darker path.
These guys are all leaders/future leaders who will shape the world's history. The potential is there.
As I said, I understand why you choose those guys. You are entitled to your opinion. And, I have nothing against any of them, including Coby.
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Since it seems people are interested, I wrote up a quick post on the matter of Blackbeard:
– I'm going to use 'haki' instead of 'Ambition' or something else for now, to avoid confusion --
First, there's the question of how far ahead Oda planned 'Haki' as an ability. We don't see it used as an ability until chapter 434, literally 200 chapters (4 years our time) after Blackbeard uses the term in Jaya. The term itself isn't even used in between, so that's a long stretch even for Oda, had he really planned the whole thing out already. Not saying he didn't, but I think it is worth noting. Moving on, there has never been anyone in the series who worked as a sensor, if you will, for Haki. Not the Amazons, not Enel, not Rayleigh, not anyone at the War. No one. Even Garp, who we know for sure can use Haki, is surprised when Luffy used the Conqueror's Haki. So, this begs the question of how Blackbeard can detect what no one else can, and even gauge its level after witnessing absolutely nothing suggestive to tip him off. It gets even harder to believe when you consider that Blackbeard spent two decades searching for a Devil Fruit that would allow him to fight 'power users'. Blackbeard emphasized this fact, and even commented to Ace that it must have been a long time since someone actually physically hit him. This further suggests Oda either a.) didn't have Haki planned out yet, or b.) wants Blackbeard to somehow be in the dark about Haki. (Meaning, Blackbeard doesn't really know what it is or know how to use it). So anyway, he sees Luffy get beat up without resisting, yet somehow manages to gauge his 'level' or something…? Then later in Impel Down, after nothing but a single punch to his own gut, he again supposedly gauges Luffy's level.
But! But Brennen! He spent years with Whitebeard!! How would he NOT know about Haki?
Who knows? When Shanks first used it on Whitebeard's ship, everyone freaked out and didn't know what was happening. Sure, they could have just been noobs, but it is also possible either a.) Haki still isn't that widely known, or b.) Oda didn't have Haki planned out yet. So what's my stance then? Blackbeard is a huge believer in fate, and spent years searching for what was indirectly under his nose the entire time: a way to fight "overconfident power users". As a twist of FATE, Blackbeard either sucks hardcore at using it, or somehow manages to go years without learning of something essential in the New World. Either way, I've always thought it made more sense for Blackbeard to be referring to Luffy's actual mental willpower and ambitious attitude. He sees Luffy, a measly 33 million, stand up to a 55 million bounty and intentionally not fight back to prove a point. Impressive, he thinks. Impressive willpower for someone who only has 33 million. Then he meets Luffy in Impel Down, after Luffy not only took down Enies Lobby, but also punched a World Noble in the face, took down Moria, escaped Kizaru, and then broke into Impel Down to save his brother. "His willpower has grown even more!" In that case it made even more sense considering he comments on the two separately: power/strength and then ambitiousness/charisma.
…or Oda just didn't have it planned out well and has made a few potential blunders along the way that he can just as easily 'fix' by writing in some solution to it. Or I'm wrong on both accounts, and Oda has had a plan all along that will be throw this all out the window without looking like he pulled a Kubo.
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Since it seems people are interested, I wrote up a quick post on the matter of Blackbeard:
– I'm going to use 'haki' instead of 'Ambition' or something else for now, to avoid confusion --
First, there's the question of how far ahead Oda planned 'Haki' as an ability. We don't see it used as an ability until chapter 434, literally 200 chapters (4 years our time) after Blackbeard uses the term in Jaya. The term itself isn't even used in between, so that's a long stretch even for Oda, had he really planned the whole thing out already. Not saying he didn't, but I think it is worth noting. Moving on, there has never been anyone in the series who worked as a sensor, if you will, for Haki. Not the Amazons, not Enel, not Rayleigh, not anyone at the War. No one. Even Garp, who we know for sure can use Haki, is surprised when Luffy used the Conqueror's Haki. So, this begs the question of how Blackbeard can detect what no one else can, and even gauge its level after witnessing absolutely nothing suggestive to tip him off. It gets even harder to believe when you consider that Blackbeard spent two decades searching for a Devil Fruit that would allow him to fight 'power users'. Blackbeard emphasized this fact, and even commented to Ace that it must have been a long time since someone actually physically hit him. This further suggests Oda either a.) didn't have Haki planned out yet, or b.) wants Blackbeard to somehow be in the dark about Haki. (Meaning, Blackbeard doesn't really know what it is or know how to use it). So anyway, he sees Luffy get beat up without resisting, yet somehow manages to gauge his 'level' or something…? Then later in Impel Down, after nothing but a single punch to his own gut, he again supposedly gauges Luffy's level.
But! But Brennen! He spent years with Whitebeard!! How would he NOT know about Haki?
Who knows? When Shanks first used it on Whitebeard's ship, everyone freaked out and didn't know what was happening. Sure, they could have just been noobs, but it is also possible either a.) Haki still isn't that widely known, or b.) Oda didn't have Haki planned out yet. So what's my stance then? Blackbeard is a huge believer in fate, and spent years searching for what was indirectly under his nose the entire time: a way to fight "overconfident power users". As a twist of FATE, Blackbeard either sucks hardcore at using it, or somehow manages to go years without learning of something essential in the New World. Either way, I've always thought it made more sense for Blackbeard to be referring to Luffy's actual mental willpower and ambitious attitude. He sees Luffy, a measly 33 million, stand up to a 55 million bounty and intentionally not fight back to prove a point. Impressive, he thinks. Impressive willpower for someone who only has 33 million. Then he meets Luffy in Impel Down, after Luffy not only took down Enies Lobby, but also punched a World Noble in the face, took down Moria, escaped Kizaru, and then broke into Impel Down to save his brother. "His willpower has grown even more!" In that case it made even more sense considering he comments on the two separately: power/strength and then ambitiousness/charisma.
…or Oda just didn't have it planned out well and has made a few potential blunders along the way that he can just as easily 'fix' by writing in some solution to it. Or I'm wrong on both accounts, and Oda has had a plan all along that will be throw this all out the window without looking like he pulled a Kubo.
Well when you think about it haki never did come around until after Arabasta so it does make sense that Oda didn't have it planned I wouldn't be surprised either he didn't have the Supernovas planned either and he created them in 3 hours didn't he?
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Well, it was in romance dawn with shanks, though that could easily be written off as killing intent that was subsumed into the idea of Ambition.
Teach's line in Jaya could very easily go either way. It wasn't too much later that Oda introduced Mantra - did he know then that he would be using it as an aspect of Ambition?
I would definatley think that when Ace & Teach fought Oda had it mapped out though. Too close to garp/luffy & newgate/shanks for me to think otherwise, so I assume an explanation on teach's motives towards his DF over ambition will be coming at some point.
