Well,the translation did mentioned how.Where drake said that vegapunk did it.
I guess I should have clarified in my original statement that I was wondering exactly how Vegapunk copied the abilities.
Well,the translation did mentioned how.Where drake said that vegapunk did it.
I guess I should have clarified in my original statement that I was wondering exactly how Vegapunk copied the abilities.
I guess I should have clarified in my original statement that I was wondering exactly how Vegapunk copied the abilities.
Well, I think it was said by Coby way back, that Vegapunk had found a way to somehow analyze a devil fruit. So I guess that he somehow analyzed Kizarus and came up with the idea of a laser.
no, wait…thats...thats GIN ?!!
in the background of the coverstory, there are two person (that are cautioned by officer-like person) blueno is looking at.
and the one of them do look like GIN (the hat he is wearing is unique) and the other man, who seems quite beaten up, could be Krieg himself ?! wtf...
So Drake knows a lot of things… I hope we'll learn more from him very soon.
I think I know Kizaru's ability. He's a light man. So that means his weakness is darkness. My reasoning? He kicks "at the speed of light", and he shoots lasers, which is a highly concentrated form of light.
Besides, he has to be a logia, otherwise it just wouldn't be right to suddenly be pwned by Apoo.
Hawkins said he is not a logia !? And Drake remark about the cloning of his ability seems to confirm he is not a logia. We now have a bundle of indications making think he's no logia.
The raw provider Franky House has released their version of kizaru in action. Grab it Here
Beside, Oda has only 3 admirals to define, he must have thought of something more special than a light fruit for the second one. We already know that 2/4 Yonkus have no DF so admiral may be the strongest DF users in OP, they must be really well designed.
OMG, Jyabura's mustache is gone in the cover page. Awesome chapter though.
Yes! This chapter was freakin awesome! Hulk Urouge, Dinosaur Drake, Scarecrow Hawkins, and Apoo is playing himself! We seriously need a chapter titled "Explanation", because there are way too many things up for speculation right now.Is this power logia or paramecia, is this a devil fruit power, what kinda dinosaur is this? And where in the world is Sentoumaru? Anyway, I love Hawkins "Gouma no Sou" form, and I'm still curious to how he utilizes his sword, if it really is a sword. Maybe he uses his sword not just for direct fighting but also for "killing" himself. Stabs himself in the heart and his enemy feels it.
EDIT: Damn, looking at it, it does look like a suit. Well, maybe next time, at least I spotted Apoos ability early in the spoiler thread.
Hawkins said he is not a logia !? And Drake remark about the cloning of his ability seems to confirm he is not a logia. We now have a bundle of indications making think he's no logia.
When did Hawkins say Kizaru was not a Logia?
How does what Drake said have any bearing on whether or not Kizaru is a Logia?
I think from what we've seen so far he is most likely a light Logia (I'm still gunning for ピカピカの実). I don't think that Oda would be that graphically violent with him if he wasn't. If it were that easy to stop an Admiral in their tracks I doubt the world would be so terrified of them. Plus he probably would have been destroyed by any number of pirates in the new world. Remember he is one of only three Admirals in the whole of the Marines.
You can be strong without being a logia.
Goustifruit was mistaken. Kizaru said Hawkins was not a Logia type. Not the other way around.
It's true you can be strong without being Logia, but the fact that:
1. Hawkins swiped him when in scarecrow form and Kizaru just disappeared and popped back in place without an explanation seem to imply light flickering on and off.
2. His arm was chopped off and he literally exploded into pieces. If he is not Logia, he's dead already, and I doubt he would fall just like that.
You know him being a robot or more advanced Cyborg than even the real Kuma is another explanation for an explosion or severed arm not slowing him down, besides being Logia user.
Also explains lasers, Vegapunk copying lasers, and being able to accelerate your leg to the speed of light doesn't really have anything to do with transforming or controlling Light.
True, now that i do think of it Kizaru does seem and look like a logia type.
If Kizaru is not a logia type… then a rookie who hasn't even been to the new world just cut off his arm. Does this make sense to people that a Marine Admiral (considered almost invincible) gets taken down by a single attack? Obivously in the next chapter we will see that the attack had no effect on Kizaru.
I'm impressed with the SH crew... it looks like that took the Pacifista down pretty quick... well I guess it could always get back up.. but looks like he's down for good.
The little bits of light coming from Kizaru's foot as he kicks is to emphasize that he moves in the speed of light.. he kicks in the speed of light.
Overall a great chapter. I guess the T-Rex or not T-Rex debate will continue since we really can't tell for sure. He is something similar to it... at the very least. I hope Urouage isn't down for good.
@Ryuksegelus: How do you explain light coming out of Kizaru's two finger?
I actually believe his powers are related to light but not in a Logia sense. More akin to Moria's control over shadows than Blackbeards control over darkness.
As for your question, why couldn't a robot/Cyborg generate intense light if its designed like that with or without a Paramecia or Logia fruit?
Thanks for the chapter. Pretty awesome reading it all the way through.
Well, if anyone is still in disbelief about the "kuma-bots", then take a look at the palms. these kuma's have no "paws/pads" on the palms of their hands.
Kizaru's hand/arm was really blown off. Amazing. None, will this be permanent, or will this be some fabrication of Apoo's DF ability just like when Law dissected those marines. Time will tell. I hate to say this, but I think it'll only be a fabrication and will be a result of the DF ability, and once Apoo is unconscious, Kizaru's arm will become re-intact. I hope i'm wrong.
Logia's have never been shown with separated parts. They always have objects pass through them.
Ahahaha! Lots of powers revealed! Most interesting is Apoo's…it seems whatever sound-effect he calls, the target within range of the sound gets effected by same sound, only physical!
Example: "Shan"(斬=zan=decapitation or slash) created a "shan" sound effect when Kizaru's arm is cut, and "Don"(爆=baku=bomb or exclamation) made a "don" sound effect when the explosion occurred. Oda is taking advantage of the various written sound effects often portrayed in manga and turning into attacks! That is extremely original and pure genius!
Well, though it isn't using "sound effects", in 666 Satan (Otherwise known as: O-Parts Hunter) there is a girl named Spika who is able to use her O-Part (weapon) to turn words into their corresponding attributes.
I.E. - She says "Smelly" and huge letters spelling SMELLY come out and each words really stinks, making it very smelly =)
Also explains lasers, Vegapunk copying lasers.
Unfortunately, according to this logic, Kizaru got his laser powers from Vegapunk ~~ and Vegapunk was able to copy lasers from Kizaru. However, I refuse to debate anymore whether or not there is enough evidence to show that Kizaru most likely has a Logia Fruit. Just wanted to add in that your theory doesn't work in this situation.
I personally believe his powers are related to light but not Logia. More akin to Moria's control over shadows than Blackbeards control over darkness.
As for your question why couldn't a robot generate intense light if its designed like that with or without a Paramecia or Logia fruit.
You could always come up with alternate explanation for why something happened in OP. But Kizaru an Admiral being a robot seems more far fetched them him simply just having some sort of light fruit. We already know this fruit exists since it's the polar opposite of BB's fruit. The simplest explanations usually work. If I wanted to be creative.. I could say that there are thousands of Kizaru robots.. or that he is actually a Zoan fruit user who just ate the fruit of an animal that can emit light… these kind of far fetched theories can go on forever. Why not accept the obvious explanation for now until proven wrong?
Maybe the technic that Apoo used is somehow related to Brooke ? Since he also uses some musical attacks . Not to mention Drake said he was "Sea's Rumble" pirate , Brooke was from Rumba Pirates ( I guess it's that ) .
Because the Light Logia theory isn't that convincing?
The simple explanation for me is that he's just Kuma on steroids with a different type of paramecia fruit.
I find it very unlikely he's 100% robot as well. Just forget to put /cyborg but thats been fixed now.
It's true you can be strong without being Logia, but the fact that:
1. Hawkins swiped him when in scarecrow form and Kizaru just disappeared and popped back in place without an explanation seem to imply light flickering on and off.
2. His arm was chopped off and he literally exploded into pieces. If he is not Logia, he's dead already, and I doubt he would fall just like that.
1. He could be fast. You could explain most things people do (that aren't overly specific to their power) as being a logia given their various applications.
But they do generally turn into their element, and I don't think there was a flash of light in that scene.
2. Even in regular humans don't just die with their arms chopped off (there are cases where people purosefuly due that and continue to exert themselves.) No less a Navy Admiral in a fictional series with people that tend to be incredibly powerful. Even Zoro was cutting off his legs against Mr. 3 and got pretty far, but he wasn't bothered much by it. Same with losing 90% of his blood in an earlier fight.
Thanks for the chapter. Pretty awesome reading it all the way through.
Well, if anyone is still in disbelief about the "kuma-bots", then take a look at the palms. these kuma's have no "paws/pads" on the palms of their hands.
Kizaru's hand/arm was really blown off. Amazing. None, will this be permanent, or will this be some fabrication of Apoo's DF ability just like when Law dissected those marines. Time will tell. I hate to say this, but I think it'll only be a fabrication and will be a result of the DF ability, and once Apoo is unconscious, Kizaru's arm will become re-intact. I hope i'm wrong.
Logia's have never been shown with separated parts. They always have objects pass through them.
Good point when you say Logia's have never been shown with separate parts. Does this mean that it would be impossible for them to be shown with separate parts?
One thing I would point out is that the marines that Law dissected never had their bodies returned to normal. I'm not sure where you're getting the if the user becomes unconscious everything will return to normal theory. For all we know they'll run around with their heads on other peoples bodies/legs/arms for the rest of their short lives. If Kizaru is not a logia type then Apoo just took down one of the strongest men in the world with a single attack. :getlost:The simplest explanation is that Kizaru is logia type and that he will not be affected by Apoo.
You guys can't use the logic that because there is a dark fruit there is a light fruit.
I mean there are what some 100 different fruits was said. Obviously there should be infinate because of all the zoans there could be and any type of paramecia ect.
And there is a fire, so there shoudl be a water type then right. But I don't see us ever seeing a water type. Of course that is due to weakness of df's and what not. But still.
Just cause there is something doesn't mean there is the opposite or weakness of it ect.
You guys can't use the logic that because there is a dark fruit there is a light fruit.
I mean there are what some 100 different fruits was said. Obviously there should be infinate because of all the zoans there could be and any type of paramecia ect.
And there is a fire, so there shoudl be a water type then right. But I don't see us ever seeing a water type. Of course that is due to weakness of df's and what not. But still.
Just cause there is something doesn't mean there is the opposite or weakness of it ect.
Good Point… the opposite fruit doesn't have to exist...you're right.. but it certainly does create a fair possibility for one.
Or he'll just get up, dust himself off, have some exposed metal plating , and re-attach his arm. Why the attitude that Logia is the only scenario that enables Kizaru to be ok next chapter?
And also about everyone saying he can't possibly loose his arm cause Apoo is not strong enough to do that to an admiral.
Hmmm, now tell me again who was it that has also lost an arm in One Piece. And how did he loose it again. To a seaking or whatever that Luffy OHKO'd when leaving for his adventure.
Shanks had his scar back then as well, so we know he was plenty strong and all, and even whitebeard and rayleigh and all super surpised by his loosing of an arm.
Edit: and the explosion on his body, it really just looks like any old bomb. Like if sogeking shot him or something with a exploding move of his. I don't see his body all blowing up.
Because the Light Logia theory isn't that convincing?
What about the theory isn't convincing? Infact, I am pretty sure most of the evidence makes it more than obvious. The only reason I haven't completely excepted it is for two reasons:
I still personally think there is more than enough evidence to support the Logia theory, and it is all fairly solid evidence. Whereas all the evidence against is exactly what Gold D. Roger stated: Far Fetched Theories
edit: Darnit! I am not supposed to be arguing this anymore!! This is too close to me debating it again. Am I so easily baited??
edit: Ryuksgelus, don't miss my edited post on the previous page where I quoted you. It might have been overlooked, so I wanted to remind.
My bet is that Apoo's a "Music-man"
Or he'll just get up, dust himself off, have some exposed metal plating , and re-attach his arm. Why the attitude that Logia is the only scenario that enables Kizaru to be ok next chapter?
It's not the only theory of course… just the one with the highest probability. There really hasn't been any evidence to say that Kizaru is himself a robot or part robot. Doesn't Drake mention that Vegapunk has converted Kizaru's abilities unto Kuma Pacifistas? If Kizaru was a robot to begin with... why would there be be a conversion of power... wouldn't it just be more robots with laser that he made?
And also about everyone saying he can't possibly loose his arm cause Apoo is not strong enough to do that to an admiral.
Hmmm, now tell me again who was it that has also lost an arm in One Piece. And how did he loose it again. To a seaking or whatever that Luffy OHKO'd when leaving for his adventure.
Shanks had his scar back then as well, so we know he was plenty strong and all, and even whitebeard and rayleigh and all super surpised by his loosing of an arm.
Edit: and the explosion on his body, it really just looks like any old bomb. Like if sogeking shot him or something with a exploding move of his. I don't see his body all blowing up.
Good Point again! I was also thinking of Shanks… he was already someone incredible strong when that happened to him while saving Luffy. Always wondered how such a weak sea monster could do that to him.
One difference from this situation is Kizaru's expresson when his arm gets cut off. He just seems puzzled/curious... and doesn't seem to lose his cool or be in any kind of pain.
And there is a fire, so there should be a water type then right. But I don't see us ever seeing a water type.
Though One Piece Movie 2 isn't canon, the idea is used. I would bet that had it not been used in the Movie it very likely could have been used in the Manga. Though I agree that just because there is one, doesn't mean its opposite exists. I also agree with Gold.D.Roger in that it does provide a decent probability.
One difference from this situation is Kizaru's expression when his arm gets cut off. He just seems puzzled/curious… and doesn't seem to lose his cool or be in any kind of pain.
True, but neither did Shanks. He didn't seem to care either. I do find it interesting that Kizaru can (according to anti-Logia theorists) take a bullet to the head without wincing or seeming to care, but his arm gets lopped off a few chapters later like butter. Yes, I am aware bullets in OP are round and solid, not tipped and pointed. lol. The guy gets shot in the head his opening scene, and his next fight his arm gets lopped off with him not caring much….
Good point when you say Logia's have never been shown with separate parts. Does this mean that it would be impossible for them to be shown with separate parts?
Eneru was shown with separate parts when Kamakiri sliced him. Though he changed into electricity at the sliced part most of his body was still in human form.
It's not the only theory of course… just the one with the highest probability. There really hasn't been any evidence to say that Kizaru is himself a robot or part robot. Doesn't Drake mention that Vegapunk has converted Kizaru's abilities unto Kuma Pacifistas? If Kizaru was a robot to begin with... why would there be be a conversion of power... wouldn't it just be more robots with laser that he made?
Not if Kizaru's body wansn't designed by Kizaru in the first place. Even if he was its not always an easy task to recreate or mimic whatever technology or power source Kizaru is using to create his lasers and other abilities.
Pretty sure Cyborgs and robots aren't as easy to mass produce as Ipods, microwaves, and cars.
Good Point again! I was also thinking of Shanks… he was already someone incredible strong when that happened to him while saving Luffy. Always wondered how such a weak sea monster could do that to him.
One difference from this situation is Kizaru's expresson when his arm gets cut off. He just seems puzzled/curious... and doesn't seem to lose his cool or be in any kind of pain.
As someone said, Shanks never seemed to be in pain either. Didn't seem like it fazed him at all.
And about Kizaru's expression. Um his arm just got cut off by watching a guy dancing/singing and playing music. I'm pretty sure i would be having a pretty "WTF" moment going on.
And I never understood the whole people saying a bullet went through his head. All i ever see is a smoking spot, say a bullet hit solid steel, on one side of head. Then the guy that shot it goes "That went straight through his head didn't it" Or something like that. Either way he was not stating really but wondering. As shown by other logias, there is usually a trail or residue of their logia around the area of penetration and exit.
Of course if he is Light Logia as seems to be everyones guess. What exactly does light look like?
Not if Kizaru's body wansn't designed by Kizaru in the first place. Even if he was its not always an easy task to recreate or mimic whatever technology or power source Kizaru is using to create his lasers and other abilities.
Ugh, could you please pay attention to my posts? I was referring to some of this, and it might help if you read it. Top of the page, and the previous page please. Here, a little help:
Also explains lasers, Vegapunk copying lasers.
Unfortunately, according to this logic, Kizaru got his laser powers from Vegapunk ~~ and Vegapunk was able to copy lasers from Kizaru. However, I refuse to debate anymore whether or not there is enough evidence to show that Kizaru most likely has a Logia Fruit. Just wanted to add in that your theory doesn't work in this situation.
Good point when you say Logia's have never been shown with separate parts. Does this mean that it would be impossible for them to be shown with separate parts?
One thing I would point out is that the marines that Law dissected never had their bodies returned to normal. I'm not sure where you're getting the if the user becomes unconscious everything will return to normal theory. For all we know they'll run around with their heads on other peoples bodies/legs/arms for the rest of their short lives. If Kizaru is not a logia type then Apoo just took down one of the strongest men in the world with a single attack. :getlost:The simplest explanation is that Kizaru is logia type and that he will not be affected by Apoo.
Blueno turned Luffy's head into a revolving door. Law sliced up marines and they stayed living and running around. I think it's a bit premature to say that Apoo just took down Kizaru. This is a simple form of suspense that Oda is using. There's no doubt in my mind that next chapter Kizaru will get serious. Or we'll find out that he too is a pacifista. (this one i'm really doubting of course)
To say that Vegapunk converted Kizaru's laser to be used for the Pacifista is the same as saying that the power originated from Kizaru's own abilities. If Kizaru was a cyborg and the laser was part of it, Drake would have said something like "Both Kizaru and the Pacifista possess laser technology from Vegapunk" If someone is able to determine the true nature of devil fruits, Vegapunk could easily analyze the properties of the fruit and devise a way to imitate it. Kizaru's laser is his own ability. Kumas and the Pacifista's lasers are an imitation. I think we can all agree on this. If Kizaru is somehow a cyborg, then he has different robotic advancements than his lasers. The real kuma possess the cyborg body and mouth laser but he still retains his own paw-paw abilities.
As someone said, Shanks never seemed to be in pain either. Didn't seem like it fazed him at all.
LOL!! Wow, three posts before you I said this, and was even quoting you ~~ and you already forgot who said it?? Ouch.
And I never understood the whole people saying a bullet went through his head. All i ever see is a smoking spot, say a bullet hit solid steel, on one side of head. Then the guy that shot it goes "That went straight through his head didn't it" Or something like that. Either way he was not stating really but wondering. As shown by other logias, there is usually a trail or residue of their logia around the area of penetration and exit.
It seems to me there are only a select few who are really pro-Logia, and almost all of them are like me: defending the theory simply because it is the most probable with what we have seen. Not because we think it is the only possibility, or because we think it is fact. Furthermore, please look at this:
! >! @brennen.exe:
! > I asked my friend really quick about the sound effects, and he says there is a different sound effect for impact. So I looked into it a tiny bit and on this page you see both gun shot (with SFX) and impact (with SFX). So there are two shots, and no impact sound effect.As for the smoke, if you look at the image before he is shot (the full body one) there is smoke everywhere around him. Infact, judging from the size, it is more likely that small trail of smoke is behind him in the cell that is a close up of his face. So the smoke is in the background.
! @brennen.exe:
! > Hey! I never said he was a Logia. Only that all of the evidence thus far points towards him being so. I am only arguing the point because of all the anti-Logia talk.And here, I made this so that it is a little bit easier to see what I meant:
!
First, note the position he is in for each image. More or less the same. Second, note you can see his face and hand when he is getting shot. Last, note the gap where the "glow" if you will surrounds Kizaru in the last image ~~ there is a gap between him and the smoke, much like the gap between him and his enlarged head from the other cell.
Of course if he is Light Logia as seems to be everyones guess. What exactly does light look like?
I think Light would be portrayed as looking yellow <– hard to see!! hehe.
LOL. So much for me sitting the argument out. I hate being….me. @freedom:
Logia's have never been shown with separated parts. They always have objects pass through them.
What about this one:
!
great chap tks to raw provider/translator/scanlator
Now i like to see another poll of popularity among the supernovas, we got power/personality for all of then, but still is a already done poll, wonder what the admins think of this. law is going down ;D…
brennen.exe ha didn't feel like throwing in another quote or scrolling down to see name. But also about the picture of Enel being cut in half.
And picture of Ace being shot with bullets. In both you see lightning sparks instantly, or the fire lines from his body. It is just hard to exactly tell what is going on exactly when he got shot. Could be because of light fruit is hard to determine what exactly is light supposed to look like on paper.
But then also when his arm gets cut off, it looks clean cut. I guess same as above, hard to tell what light logia is supopsed to look like cut and peirced.
It is just hard to exactly tell what is going on exactly when he got shot. Could be because of light fruit is hard to determine what exactly is light supposed to look like on paper. But then also when his arm gets cut off, it looks clean cut. I guess same as above, hard to tell what light logia is supopsed to look like cut and peirced.
I completely agree. My only thoughts on this are that Oda is only trying to hint at us for now, and perhaps next chapter will reveal the truth. Be it Logia, and light hasn't really been shown to its full effect yet ~~ or some other theory tossed up or yet to be thought of.
I will just say once more that I am not particularly for or against, I am open to both. I just think that the Logia theory has the most solid evidence and probability. I also feel like the majority is arguing against the Logia theory, and given I see evidence to suggest otherwise I feel compelled to argue for it. Overall, I enjoy debate when there is enough to debate about.
well i have no opinion at all. Couldn't really care. Was just pointing out that an arm has been lost in the series to a Yonkou from a much less dangerous foe. So loosing an arm from a 100+ million pirate on a whacky attack isn't too hard to beleive.
And then was just stating that hard to tell exactly what is going on when he gets hit if it passing through him (bullet) or hitting solid and stopping?
well that would be a weird power. Reminds me of moves in rpg games. Where if you take damage that turn your attack is double or something then. Or if you are really close to death your attack power increases so much ect.
It seems to me there are only a select few who are really pro-Logia, and almost all of them are like me: defending the theory simply because it is the most probable with what we have seen. Not because we think it is the only possibility, or because we think it is fact. Furthermore, please look at this:
Funny, the only reason I respond is because people keep presenting it as fact and only possibility.
I try to provide an alternative and point out what my impression of the scenes that makes them belive its a logia is.
Then you come along and provide an alternative to that =P
I'm impressed with the SH crew… it looks like that took the Pacifista down pretty quick... well I guess it could always get back up.. but looks like he's down for good.
Robin hinted that she can see on the faces from Ruffy, Zoro and Sanji that the Kumaclone isn’t down. Further I was surprised that I only found two scars on Kuma, the left one from Zoro and the middle from Ruffy. Sanji have hit his head, but I found no damage, maybe we see the third scar next time.