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    362: Slashes Dancing on the Roof!! Finale - Zoro vs. Ryuma

    Past Episode Discussion
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    • Buuhan1
      Buuhan1
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      Yes, I'm starting the thread this early just to get everyone up to date on the best watching method. It seems some people are still using TVU Player but there's a better solution now. HorribleRaw offers their own live Japan TV streams, including one which shows almost every anime as it broadcasts in Japan.

      The quality is great, the widescreen picture isn't cropped to fullscreen like past streams have, and best of all you can view it in your own personal media player. (Windows Media Player seems to be the best, but Winamp works just fine too. I discourage using Media Player Classic cause when I tried this it froze my computer.)

      Here's what to do:

      Step 1: Open your media player of choice.
      Step 2: Look for an "Open URL" option under File; if this doesn't exist try normally opening a file.
      Step 3: Paste in the following URL: mms://waryas.gundam.eu/live
      Step 4: Wait for it to buff and enjoy the show.

      If a media player isn't an option for you, you can try watching the stream on HR's website (where you can also see the schedule) but from my experience it doesn't work that well: http://www.horribleraws.eu/

      Hopefully that got everyone who might have been behind up to date. See you all here tomorrow.

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        animegirl_117
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        animegirl_117
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        Thanks Buuhan~

        16 extensions

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        • FireFistAce 0
          FireFistAce 0 @animegirl_117
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          Seems to be horse-racing right now. Sure that's the right channel?

          And VLC seems to have the best quality.

          I called it wrong, so long ago. I guess this needs to be changed.

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          • Lord Starfish
            Lord Starfish @FireFistAce 0
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            @Fire Fist:

            Seems to be horse-racing right now. Sure that's the right channel?

            Well, looking at Wikipedia, it would appear that the timeslot has changed… The episode is listed to air on July 13th. Yeah, I know Wikipedia isn't the most reliable source, but seeing how nobody here nor crossbones have posted anything about the episode, it's at least clear that it hasn't aired yet.

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            • goty
              goty
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              What are you guys talking about??!
              It's Saturday 05:53 pm in Japan right now, the episode is airing only on Sunday 09:30 am.

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              • Lord Starfish
                Lord Starfish @goty
                @goty last edited by
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                @goty:

                What are you guys talking about??!
                It's Saturday 05:53 pm in Japan right now, the episode is airing only on Sunday 09:30 am.

                Wow, I feel like such an idiot at the moment. You're absolutely right, it's not Sunday, even though I somehow thought it was. (You know what makes this really ironic? I just went shopping. I couldn't have done that if it was Sunday.)

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                • Buuhan1
                  Buuhan1 @goty
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                  @goty:

                  What are you guys talking about??!
                  It's Saturday 05:53 pm in Japan right now, the episode is airing only on Sunday 09:30 am.

                  You're confusing me, it's Sunday, July 13th: 1:35 AM in Japan right now. It's Saturday, July 12th: 11:35am here in the states. I got the date right. One Piece airs in 8 hours.

                  Oh, OOOOH! Those two were confused, you were correcting them. Sorry, your wording threw me off.

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                    Ikki-Kun @Buuhan1
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                    Are you sure it's the right Channel? I tried it and it always shows TV Tokyo, but One Piece airs on Fuji TV.

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                    • Buuhan1
                      Buuhan1
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                      If you read my opening post, you would know that the "live" channel airs all anime airing in Japan as it airs, not just a single channel. When there's no anime on, it just shows random TV (usually TV Tokyo).

                      I'm sure, I've been watching the stream for weeks. But by all means, if you don't trust me watch the "anime" channel which is just the channel "Animax".

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                        2pac888
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                        one piece back on tvu, for me it wasn't on the url stream

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                          Wasurenai
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                          starting now, but that server from buuhan is on tv tokyo 😞

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                            2pac888
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                            try tvu player im watchin it on that rite now, fuji channel is 67620

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                            • Kitsune Inferno
                              Kitsune Inferno
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                              Cool, what OP game was that?

                              [[Follow me on Twitch!]](http://twitch.tv/kitsuneinferno/)

                              [[Concerto di Ali: The Battle of Solocima]](showthread.php?t=33896 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 33896") - [[Spirit Wolf]](showthread.php?t=33362 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 33362")

                              [[D.U.R.I.A.N.]](showthread.php?t=32416 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 32416") - [[Short and Sweet Writing]](showthread.php?t=30536 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 30536")

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                                Azim
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                                Zoros fight was frikkin awesome!!

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                                • Sano
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                                  I didn't expect the Zoro Vs. Ryumma fight would been over before even the ending of the first half of the episode.

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                                  • Kitsune Inferno
                                    Kitsune Inferno
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                                    Zoro vs Ryuuma was only a chapter long in the manga though. Pretty good episode.

                                    [[Follow me on Twitch!]](http://twitch.tv/kitsuneinferno/)

                                    [[Concerto di Ali: The Battle of Solocima]](showthread.php?t=33896 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 33896") - [[Spirit Wolf]](showthread.php?t=33362 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 33362")

                                    [[D.U.R.I.A.N.]](showthread.php?t=32416 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 32416") - [[Short and Sweet Writing]](showthread.php?t=30536 "Arlong Park Forums - Thread 30536")

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                                    • R
                                      RiDeLub @Sano
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                                      Yeah,they managed to fit it inn the first "half".

                                      Awesome battle indeed. I really enjoyed it.
                                      Not much to say about the second half thought.

                                      Chopper action next week…

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                                      • B
                                        Blue-Eyes
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                                        Oh i love all the filler parts about Moria vs Luffy. It just makes Moria's Doppelman shine, more and more. Since the fights began the drawing quality of Moria went higher and higher from episode to episode.

                                        This struggle is exactly what i missed in the manga about this part.

                                        Ryuuma vs Zoro was nicely done. The destruction of the tower's walls, Frankys reactions, the roof-cut… perfectly done.

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                                          Luffy Batter @Blue-Eyes
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                                          I hope people are happy now. The Zoro fight was NOT stretched and we actually had a 2 chapter episode πŸ˜›

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                                          • Lord Starfish
                                            Lord Starfish @Sano
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                                            @Sano:

                                            I didn't expect the Zoro Vs. Ryumma fight would been over before even the ending of the first half of the episode.

                                            It was? YAY, THEY DIDN'T RUIN IT! I was seriously worried about how this episode would turn out, so hearing that the fight was as short as it should be was quite a relief.

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                                            • Buuhan1
                                              Buuhan1
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                                              I missed it, fell asleep. And what's this talk about it not being on HorribleRaw's stream? It would have been, it might have run a few mins late cause they were airing something else but they would still have had it.

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                                                Azim
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                                                ^ Nope they had some kiddy show on.

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                                                • Buuhan1
                                                  Buuhan1
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                                                  That makes no sense, there was no conflicting programs in their schedule. Must of been a goof.

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                                                  • S
                                                    sporkbot
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                                                    If you really want to see it, it's on Veoh already…

                                                    http://www.veoh.com/videos/v149322143QKNrhts

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                                                    • Ivotas
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                                                      Wowza, Toei really handled the fight well. The only thing that I didn't expect to see, was that the comment after "Rashomon" was only made by Zoro, while in the manga I had the impression that both, Zoro and Ryuma thought the same thing since they both launched an attack. But I guess that was just my interpretation.

                                                      The rest of the episode was rather bleh. And it's quite annoying how Toei handles the Doppelmann fight. I have no problems with stretching a fight if it is scripted well. But unfortunally this is not the case here. Luffy still behaves like an amateur though the point where he already established that he knows that he has to avoid direct contact with Doppelmann already passed. But it's at least not so badly scripted as the Captains and Commanders fight at Enies Lobby so I guess I can live with it.

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                                                        Captain Brooke @Ivotas
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                                                        Great ep., I love Zoro's fights animated, they show you what he's really made of! Great to see a fight ended in one ep. instead of like like 3, wonder when this is gonna get subbed, seeing how the last ep sadly still isn't subbed yet, these sub sites are taking way to long to subbed One Piece these days

                                                        Anywho, next ep we see Oz go off, and the end of Chopper and Robin's fight with….......(can't give out spoilers) anyway, the Oz fight is coming!

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                                                        • Hiroy
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                                                          Hmm. The animation did not seem as good as the last one. Sad. It was a good fight though.

                                                          This ep has a good reference for the symbols on Ryuuma's kimono. That would be very helpful to me.

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                                                          • D
                                                            DBZOP
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                                                            Toei never ceases to amaze me how horribly they handle Zoro's fights. The fist clash was amazing, then the quality just fell while they were still in the tower. I imagined that the blows were coming alot faster than normal. The manga just had more of an intense feeling to it.

                                                            That being said, Toei's ability to show incredible finishing moves is increible. His last attack was done perfectly, with the right style and right animation. Now if only the rest of the fight looked like that…..

                                                            ![](http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_o7VEhMLFYtf7Qvp8MraS5zK9twiri k_rZZ653yRN9Z2YhAezHZ6VekV4)

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                                                            • m00n
                                                              m00n @DBZOP
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                                                              Mhm I can't follow you. The first Scene was really cool, DBZ like, ok. Just like Gohan at the last tournament ^^
                                                              But I liked the rest of the fight too. If you want to see a really crapie animated Zoro fight watch the Movie 9 raw that came out yesterday πŸ˜†

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                                                                DBZOP
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                                                                When I mean animation, I mean how the characters move in the episode.
                                                                In this show, zoro and ryuuma did not look fluid at all. It could see each frame one after another. Then again, I may be too critical. A few years ago, I could see the difference between one episode and another, but after spending some time over at the KF forums, the differences in animation just popped out. The difference between ep. 298, 300, 304, and 309 were enough.

                                                                I saw the movie 9 RAW, and although the art was questionable the fluidity and pace was perfect for a fight like this. As a side note, Zoro's Hiryu Kaen final blow in the ep was animated by the same people that made Movie 9.

                                                                Edit: I was extremely happy that the fight only lasted half of the episode

                                                                ![](http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_o7VEhMLFYtf7Qvp8MraS5zK9twiri k_rZZ653yRN9Z2YhAezHZ6VekV4)

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                                                                • Y
                                                                  Yonkou3
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                                                                  Damn. I was hoping for some filler to that fight just to make it more badass. I mean when that flashback said 5 minutes ago, it ment 5 MINUTES. Also a little lol at that, notice ryumma died, but it was a flashback so it's ok. Even the dead cant die on oda's watch. πŸ˜›

                                                                  But how was zoro's fight only half an ep and he had someone who he was afraid would break his swords when sanji's was 2+ eps and he pwned absolom like taking candy from a sleeping baby. It would have made more sense to add the filler to zoro's fight since ryumma was supposed to be so badass and all. Zoro beating ryumma with 1 sword only serves to make brook look like utter trash. Damn i'm not liking this ac so far save ussop vs. perona. That odz fight beter be amazing.

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                                                                    Luffy Batter @Yonkou3
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                                                                    Odz fight is MEGA-AMAZING!

                                                                    Also Zoro's fight was not easy:/ It's like in samurai battles, 1 hit and you're dead. it may have been short but it was sweet and intense. But I guess the manga was better at showing that XD

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                                                                    • dinty
                                                                      dinty @Yonkou3
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                                                                      @Yonkou#3:

                                                                      Damn. I was hoping for some filler to that fight just to make it more badass.

                                                                      I disagree completely. Filler would have ruined it. The whole point of the fight – which came off slightly less successfully in the anime then in the manga -- was that it was so fast and so thunderous that nobody knew (not even the two opponents) -- who'd won or lost, wounded or been wounded -- until the dust settled.

                                                                      I mean when that flashback said 5 minutes ago, it ment 5 MINUTES.

                                                                      Does it really clock in at 5 minutes exactly?
                                                                      Cool! Wow, Toei usually doesn't have the ability to pay that much attention to detail. Nice one.

                                                                      Speaking of attention to detail, I was impressed that they spent some time on showing Zoro gripping his own wrist before landing the killer blow on Ryuma. He did that once before – the first time he unleashed a Cannon against an enemy (Brahm), so it seems to be a way of backing up his untested moves with extra strength.

                                                                      ... Or maybe he just likes to touch himself? πŸ˜‰

                                                                      Ahem.

                                                                      It would have made more sense to add the filler to zoro's fight since ryumma was supposed to be so badass and all.

                                                                      Ah, try not to confuse "strength" with "speed". Think of how quickly Luffy polished off Bellamy. Did that mean Bellamy was weak? And most of Sanji's fights have been short and sharp, too. That's his main strength – he cuts the chit-chat and gets down to business when he fights.

                                                                      The goal of many forms of martial arts -- contrary to what you see in many martial arts-themed films -- is to kill quickly and decisively and with a minimum of expended energy. If the battle takes a long time, it means something's actually gone wrong. So as Zoro gets stronger, we'd expect his fights to become shorter and fiercer -- unless of course he's up against a Wild-Card DF-user like Kaku.

                                                                      Zoro beating ryumma with 1 sword

                                                                      Um – Zoro has beaten nearly every enemy of significance with one sword.

                                                                      "Over-thinking,

                                                                      over-analyzing …"

                                                                      ......-- Tool (from Lateralus)

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                                                                      • Ivotas
                                                                        Ivotas @dinty
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                                                                        [quote=dinty;918265
                                                                        Um – Zoro has beaten nearly every enemy of significance with one sword.

                                                                        Really? I only remember Mr. 1. Aum and Kaku both fell to three swords (waiting for someone to throw in a "Kaku was hit by nine swords" statement). What other enemies of significance went down with one sword? Don't tell me you consider Braham in that league.

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                                                                          Luffy Batter @Ivotas
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                                                                          Mr.1 went down by one sword πŸ˜•

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                                                                          • dinty
                                                                            dinty @Ivotas
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                                                                            @Ivotas:

                                                                            Really? I only remember Mr. 1. Aum and Kaku both fell to three swords (waiting for someone to throw in a "Kaku was hit by nine swords" statement). What other enemies of significance went down with one sword? Don't tell me you consider Braham in that league.

                                                                            Actually, I do put Brahm in that league.

                                                                            Zoro retreats from him a couple of times – check out his facial expression when he hides behind the tree. For a moment there he's absolutely holy-@#%!! spooked, but he gains his composure a few seconds later. And if he didn't feel outclassed or challenged by the guy, I doubt he would have resorted to such a stupid trick ("hey, these goggles can cancel out that light!") to buy some time from him.

                                                                            Maybe people don't think Brahm is a significant enemy because he's not a swordsman (I note that all the other guys in your list were), but anyone who gives Zoro that much trouble -- forcing him to break out a Cannon for the first time -- belongs on that list (or at least in my own opinion. Feel free to disagree).

                                                                            But you're right, now that I've given it more thought, who goes down with one sword is a lot less than who goes down with more than one. FOr some reason I was thinking the gap was smaller.

                                                                            Ah well. Time to reread a few chapters, eh?

                                                                            "Over-thinking,

                                                                            over-analyzing …"

                                                                            ......-- Tool (from Lateralus)

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                                                                            • Ivotas
                                                                              Ivotas @dinty
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                                                                              @dinty:

                                                                              Actually, I do put Brahm in that league.

                                                                              Zoro retreats from him a couple of times – check out his facial expression when he hides behind the tree. For a moment there he's absolutely holy-@#%!! spooked, but he gains his composure a few seconds later. And if he didn't feel outclassed or challenged by the guy, I doubt he would have resorted to such a stupid trick ("hey, these goggles can cancel out that light!") to buy some time from him.

                                                                              The only reason why Zoro had problems with him was because he couldn't approach him. Once he learned to use distance shots Braham was raped instantly. Aum on the other hand was upper class, which is the reason why one sword was not enough to beat him. Zoro had to resort to all three of them to be a serious challenge to him.

                                                                              Maybe people don't think Brahm is a significant enemy because he's not a swordsman (I note that all the other guys in your list were), but anyone who gives Zoro that much trouble – forcing him to break out a Cannon for the first time -- belongs on that list (or at least in my own opinion. Feel free to disagree).

                                                                              Well that is exactly the reason why he's not in the same league as Aum and Kaku. Any medicore sharpshooter would have taken Zoro to that level. Zoro himself that he lacked concentration in the fight (you know the entire eel thing that resulted in him being hit by Braham). Also the goggle gag showed that he had more problems with the flash-guns then with Brahams skill of sharpshooting. I'm not saying Braham sucks as a fighter, but he is not the same class of opponent that Mr. 1, Aum and Kaku were for Zoro. Those guys were all able to take attacks from Zoro. Braham was safe because of distance, not because he could deflect Zoro's attacks.

                                                                              But you're right, now that I've given it more thought, who goes down with one sword is a lot less than who goes down with more than one. FOr some reason I was thinking the gap was smaller.

                                                                              Oh, perhaps I should read the entire post before responding to paragraphs individually. Aw heck, now that I wrote this stuff I'm gonna keep it that way.^^

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                                                                              • dinty
                                                                                dinty @Ivotas
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                                                                                @Ivotas:

                                                                                Any medicore sharpshooter would have taken Zoro to that level. Zoro himself that he lacked concentration in the fight (you know the entire eel thing that resulted in him being hit by Braham).

                                                                                Good point. And it's not flattering to Brahm that it took him something like 8 shots to finally wound Zoro, even though maybe half of those were made at a reasonably close range.

                                                                                Also the goggle gag showed that he had more problems with the flash-guns then with Brahams skill of sharpshooting.

                                                                                In some ways, the flash-gun was deadlier than the bullet, because it kept throwing his ability to concentrate as well as to see. (As long as he can see and he can concentrate, he can dodge a bullet) … actually, the moral of the story is: don't fight on an empty stomach. It was when he started thinking about the eel in terms of 'dinner' that he got distracted ... πŸ˜‰

                                                                                I'm not saying Braham sucks as a fighter, but he is not the same class of opponent that Mr. 1, Aum and Kaku were for Zoro.

                                                                                I'm in agreement with you now about that. It may be because I find this particular fight so entertaining that I'm prone to giving Brahm more credit than he really deserves.

                                                                                Aw heck, now that I wrote this stuff I'm gonna keep it that way.^^

                                                                                Hey, it's all good, so it's all good.
                                                                                ^^

                                                                                "Over-thinking,

                                                                                over-analyzing …"

                                                                                ......-- Tool (from Lateralus)

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                                                                                  Yonkou3 @dinty
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                                                                                  @dinty:

                                                                                  I disagree completely. Filler would have ruined it. The whole point of the fight – which came off slightly less successfully in the anime then in the manga -- was that it was so fast and so thunderous that nobody knew (not even the two opponents) -- who'd won or lost, wounded or been wounded -- until the dust settled.

                                                                                  I would ahve liked to see it lentghed just to see some badass swordplay. Kaku was more about his df than swordplay so zoro hasnt had a good swordfight since Mr.1

                                                                                  Does it really clock in at 5 minutes exactly?
                                                                                  Cool! Wow, Toei usually doesn't have the ability to pay that much attention to detail. Nice one.

                                                                                  It wasnt actually 5 minutes. I was just emphasing it was short. I think it was like 13 minutes.

                                                                                  Speaking of attention to detail, I was impressed that they spent some time on showing Zoro gripping his own wrist before landing the killer blow on Ryuma. He did that once before – the first time he unleashed a Cannon against an enemy (Brahm), so it seems to be a way of backing up his untested moves with extra strength.

                                                                                  ... Or maybe he just likes to touch himself? πŸ˜‰

                                                                                  No comment.

                                                                                  Ahem.

                                                                                  Ah, try not to confuse "strength" with "speed". Think of how quickly Luffy polished off Bellamy. Did that mean Bellamy was weak? And most of Sanji's fights have been short and sharp, too. That's his main strength – he cuts the chit-chat and gets down to business when he fights.

                                                                                  The goal of many forms of martial arts -- contrary to what you see in many martial arts-themed films -- is to kill quickly and decisively and with a minimum of expended energy. If the battle takes a long time, it means something's actually gone wrong. So as Zoro gets stronger, we'd expect his fights to become shorter and fiercer -- unless of course he's up against a Wild-Card DF-user like Kaku.

                                                                                  I realize that but if u put too extremely talented martial artists against each other it will take a long time to get that strike. I dont expect zoro's fights to get shorter because i expect his enemies to get stronger. It would be boring if eventually zoro just keeps 1 hit ko'ing his opponents untill mihawk.

                                                                                  Um – Zoro has beaten nearly every enemy of significance with one sword.

                                                                                  Cabaji-No
                                                                                  Sam Butchi-No
                                                                                  Hatchi- No
                                                                                  Mr.1- yes
                                                                                  Braham-Yes
                                                                                  Ohm-No
                                                                                  Kaku-no
                                                                                  Ryumma-Yes

                                                                                  Three to five says not really. And against mr.1 he only used 1 sword because he didnt have the other two availible. Zoro himself stated he isnt good at 1 sword style. Notice everytime he used a 1 sword attack it's a finisher after he has used 2 or three sword style to weaken opponent. If he only used 1 sword he could very possibly lose.

                                                                                  😁 Edited to include my comments

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                                                                                  • Hinscher
                                                                                    Hinscher @Yonkou3
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                                                                                    @Yonkou#3:

                                                                                    😁 Edited to include my comments

                                                                                    well too lazy to grab the part I want to respond, cause you did it weird.

                                                                                    But about his "he would have used more against mr. 1, but only had 1 sword he found"

                                                                                    I don't agree. Every single time he has ever used his steel cutting "lion song" or whatever called he has only used one sword.

                                                                                    Against Kaku: he had all 3 swords available to him
                                                                                    Against Spoiler charcter: he had all 3 swords available to him

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                                                                                      Miracles
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                                                                                      What do you guys expect? The fight in the manga was VERY short. I wasn't expecting this to be one of the best fights to be animated at all. Zoro vs Ryumma was more of a scuffle than anything and TOEI seems like they just breezed through it.

                                                                                      All in all I expect TOEI to pick it's game up around the Finale, Moria and Kuma bouts.

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                                                                                      • goty
                                                                                        goty @Hinscher
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                                                                                        @Hinscher:

                                                                                        I don't agree. Every single time he has ever used his steel cutting "lion song" or whatever called he has only used one sword

                                                                                        Exactly. Shishi Sonson is an one-sword technique, no doubt about it.

                                                                                        http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/416/16/
                                                                                        http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/485/06/

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                                                                                          Finally saw the episode that I've been waiting for. I was not disapointed! While the fight in the manga was intense in speed, (imo) the anime's version was more about power, then things picked up in speed once they got to the roof. It was handled very well, though, and I enjoyed it very much. Only downsides: Zoro looked off in this episode, and the rest of the episode after the fight wasn't that great. Really, though, I'm glad to see that my favorite Zoro fight in the manga is now my favorite in the anime. Toei did awesome here, in my view.

                                                                                          Thanks to PirateNeko for the avatar!

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                                                                                          • dinty
                                                                                            dinty @Yonkou3
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                                                                                            I would ahve liked to see it lentghed just to see some badass swordplay. Kaku was more about his df than swordplay so zoro hasnt had a good swordfight since Mr.1

                                                                                            I understand your wish to see more swordplay from the fight – we all want more of what we like, right? -- but at the same time, if you look at that fight as a whole and see the dynamics of it, there aren't too many places where Toei could add more thrills without messing up the flow of the action.

                                                                                            Think of it like a roller-coaster. There are some roller-coasters that are exhilarating because they shake you up and spin you around and do all sorts of crazy things in a very short time -- but the reason why they are so short is exactly because if you had to do all that same wild stuff for five more minutes, the effect would be nauseating, not exhilarating.

                                                                                            I guess we define "good swordfight" differently, too -- and that's fine. It's not necessary to agree on everything.

                                                                                            I realize that but if u put too extremely talented martial artists against each other it will take a long time to get that strike.

                                                                                            Not always – but you're right, it's not always a fast fight either. The ideal is usually to expend as little energy (and time) as possible in the fight -- but that doesn't count the time you spend hovering around them, sizing them up, exchanging intimidating remarks, looking for an opening. But as long as you take advantage of that opening quickly and effectively, you're still keeping with the ideal. So it's not always a 1-hit-KO, but that's the ideal to aim for.
                                                                                            > It would be boring if eventually zoro just keeps 1 hit ko'ing his opponents untill mihawk. That's not what I mean by "faster fights". I mean in terms of dynamics and decisiveness.And yes, 1-hit-KO for the rest of the series would be mighty boring, but again, that's not what I mean.

                                                                                            Wait, maybe we're operating on different definitions of 1-hit-KO. Would you classify the Ryuma fight as 1-hit-KO? – I wouldn't. To me, a 1-hit-KO is the Bellamy fight -- where the first and only blow of the entire fight is the killer blow. In the Ryuma fight, Z and R exchange a lot of blows -- though none that injure each other -- before R finally dies. Do you consider that a 1-hit-KO just because Ryuma went down without making Zoro bleed first? I don't.

                                                                                            Three to five says not really.

                                                                                            Agreed. As I said to Ivotas, I didn't have the time to check my facts at onemanga.com or in my tankos, so I was relying on memory – and my memory is obviously faulty -- so I stand corrected, and I agree with you both.
                                                                                            > Notice everytime he used a 1 sword attack it's a finisher after he has used 2 or three sword style to weaken opponent. If he only used 1 sword he could very possibly lose. Good point! And that theory's borne out in things I can't talk about in the anime section, too.

                                                                                            Wow, I'm really rusty on some stuff that I thought I once knew well.
                                                                                            My training is obviously incomplete …
                                                                                            :ninja:

                                                                                            πŸ˜†

                                                                                            "Over-thinking,

                                                                                            over-analyzing …"

                                                                                            ......-- Tool (from Lateralus)

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                                                                                              DesertSpada
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                                                                                              I was kind of disappointed in the fight. It just didn't seem like they did their best at it. I'll watch it again but I truly hope that fighting Oz will be a tremendously cool thing to see. I mean, he's freaking huge and fighting all of the SH sans Luffy. Anyway, I'll watch it again…

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                                                                                                Yangzter027 @DesertSpada
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                                                                                                Overall i think it was a pretty good fight…once they got to the roof that is...

                                                                                                YANGZTER PIRATES UNITE!

                                                                                                Spoiler:

                                                                                                Spoiler:

                                                                                                Spoiler:

                                                                                                Spoiler:

                                                                                                Spoiler:

                                                                                                Spoiler:

                                                                                                ![](images/smilies/ipb/laughing.png "Laughing")

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                                                                                                  Yonkou3 @Hinscher
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                                                                                                  @Hinscher:

                                                                                                  well too lazy to grab the part I want to respond, cause you did it weird.

                                                                                                  But about his "he would have used more against mr. 1, but only had 1 sword he found"

                                                                                                  I don't agree. Every single time he has ever used his steel cutting "lion song" or whatever called he has only used one sword.

                                                                                                  Against Kaku: he had all 3 swords available to him
                                                                                                  Against Spoiler charcter: he had all 3 swords available to him

                                                                                                  Yeah the lion song is a 1 sword technique, but if he had had three swords u think he would ahve put two down and then used it? IMO lions song is just a technique. Zoro used it at that time because it's a good 1 sword technique, but he could have used any technqiue and still cut steel. Everytime he used it after that was just because he wanted to, not because he cant cut steel without using it. So to wrap up, i agree everytime he has used lions sonh it's been 1 sword because it's a 1 sword technique. But he can cut steel with other techniques too, thats just what was availible at the time.

                                                                                                  @dinty:

                                                                                                  I understand your wish to see more swordplay from the fight – we all want more of what we like, right? -- but at the same time, if you look at that fight as a whole and see the dynamics of it, there aren't too many places where Toei could add more thrills without messing up the flow of the action.

                                                                                                  Think of it like a roller-coaster. There are some roller-coasters that are exhilarating because they shake you up and spin you around and do all sorts of crazy things in a very short time -- but the reason why they are so short is exactly because if you had to do all that same wild stuff for five more minutes, the effect would be nauseating, not exhilarating.

                                                                                                  I guess we define "good swordfight" differently, too -- and that's fine. It's not necessary to agree on everything.

                                                                                                  Not always -- but you're right, it's not always a fast fight either. The ideal is usually to expend as little energy (and time) as possible in the fight -- but that doesn't count the time you spend hovering around them, sizing them up, exchanging intimidating remarks, looking for an opening. But as long as you take advantage of that opening quickly and effectively, you're still keeping with the ideal. So it's not always a 1-hit-KO, but that's the ideal to aim for.

                                                                                                  That's not what I mean by "faster fights". I mean in terms of dynamics and decisiveness.And yes, 1-hit-KO for the rest of the series would be mighty boring, but again, that's not what I mean.

                                                                                                  Wait, maybe we're operating on different definitions of 1-hit-KO. Would you classify the Ryuma fight as 1-hit-KO? -- I wouldn't. To me, a 1-hit-KO is the Bellamy fight -- where the first and only blow of the entire fight is the killer blow. In the Ryuma fight, Z and R exchange a lot of blows -- though none that injure each other -- before R finally dies. Do you consider that a 1-hit-KO just because Ryuma went down without making Zoro bleed first? I don't.

                                                                                                  Agreed. As I said to Ivotas, I didn't have the time to check my facts at onemanga.com or in my tankos, so I was relying on memory -- and my memory is obviously faulty -- so I stand corrected, and I agree with you both.

                                                                                                  Good point! And that theory's borne out in things I can't talk about in the anime section, too.

                                                                                                  Wow, I'm really rusty on some stuff that I thought I once knew well.
                                                                                                  My training is obviously incomplete ...
                                                                                                  :ninja:

                                                                                                  πŸ˜†

                                                                                                  I was talking about the bellamy type 1 hit ko.

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