Originally posted by Green Hair+Jun 20 2005, 09:11 AM–>QUOTE(Green Hair @ Jun 20 2005, 09:11 AM) _> Originally posted by wolfwood@Jun 20 2005, 12:36 AM
****> I strongly doubt Oda would introduce a city full of great characters and just let them pick up some bum that was doomed anyway, seperated from their true crew.
Whoever said that it'll be one of the prisoners?
[snapback]72859[/snapback]**well the place they are going to is a maximum security prison and other than the prisoners i would assume that there are only marines and goverment people there,
and how likely is it that a marine would join a pirate crew ?
and that leaves the prisoners and as buc pointed out it would suck if a random bum/prisoner would join rather than our beloved paulie :P
[snapback]73024[/snapback]**It's just one of the options. It's not like we can read Oda's mind or anything (and his got one messed up mind). And the same goes for the whole Franky/Paulie joining debate.
[snapback]73208[/snapback]whats the other options then ?
could you point them out to me please cause i dont see how they would meet a master shipwright who would be willing to join them at a prison unless its a prisoner.and as said it would be a retarded move to first make 2 great character who have all the needed skills and then build them up and then just pick another shipwright who they free from prison._
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Originally posted by Ivotas@Jun 20 2005, 10:18 AM
Of course the Strawhats won´t leave that quickly. Don´t try always to avoid the main argument by mentioning something rather unintersting. The fact is that three of Iceburgs most important workers left. And even if everything would be repaired, if Paulie would leave it would be the same thing as Franky leaving his FF.What do you mean with the first sentence?
Please justify about the second thing.
Execuse me but what bond between Franky and his FF have seen so far that is much deeper then the bond between Paulie and Lulu/Tilestone. You mean they´ve all worked together for three years to buy something expensive. So what? The Galley-la workers work together to provide the best ships in the world.
You saw how angry Franky was when the SH defeated FF, when he gave 5 million bellie to them and when the FF didnt say to Lucci where Franky was, and now, they they want rescue him. And I havnt seen any special bond between Paulie and Tilestone or Lulu, have you? if so please say.
**Ok now you´ve really did it! Who would come to get him you ask? How can you even ask such a stupid question. If somebody gets a bounty then it means that the WG wants his head. What other need is there for a wanted poster?
And whats with the less then 100 million crap? Are you trying to say that a guy with less then a 100 million on his head wont be chased by the WG? Why the hell do they WANT somebody in the first place then? And before you consider to bring up the argument that so far no below a 100 million bounty pirate wasn´t catched then I´ll respond immediately and say that they aren´t catched because they are pirates that can´t be located at a certain city. The only difference was Arlong and he was paying the marine to let him be.
Besides, why would the Marine have chased Kuro if he wasn´t even near the 100 million bounty?
[snapback]73210[/snapback]**I mean that the WG probably doesnt work off their ass just to find a pirate who isnt even a big threat to WG. And Pirates under 100 million isnt that BIG threat to WG. And was in Eastblue, and pirates who had over 10 million in bounty there was considered to be big threat to eastblue.
I just can't picture Franky with the strawhatts, he's just too, wierd.
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**whats the other options then ?
could you point them out to me please cause i dont see how they would meet a master shipwright who would be willing to join them at a prison unless its a prisoner.and as said it would be a retarded move to first make 2 great character who have all the needed skills and then build them up and then just pick another shipwright who they free from prison.**
No, you're missing my point. We're talking about Oda here. So what if he introduced Franky and Paulie, so what if they're great characters, we've seen great characters before, but they didn't join the crew. So far as we know, he might do something crazy and make some prisoner from Eneas Lobby a new member of the crew, or not. So you can debate about Franky/Paulie joining the crew all along, but that doesn't mean that either one of them will join. Oda is just too unpredictable, and that's why I like him.
One thing is certain though, whatever Oda decides, there'll be a number of unsatisfied OP fans. -
Honestly, that'd be like introducing Sanji and going into his character just to have a random dishwasher in the Baratie join. Or having one of the Isshi-20 join after going through all that developement for Chopper.
Oda isn't THAT unpredictable, especially not when it comes to characters joining the crew. The only time it's been surprising is when Robin joined, and she's pretty much an exception to everything ever.
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Originally posted by Solid@Jun 21 2005, 01:20 AM
You saw how angry Franky was when the SH defeated FF, when he gave 5 million bellie to them and when the FF didnt say to Lucci where Franky was, and now, they they want rescue him. And I havnt seen any special bond between Paulie and Tilestone or Lulu, have you? if so please say.I wouldn't say the bond is with them, but Galley-La itself. He's almost as fond of the company as he is of Ice.
Lulu, Tilestone, and Pauly aren't outright in their connection, but they are co-workers. If it came to revealing Pauly's location when he was in hiding, they'd do what Zanbai and the others did. If someone kidnapped him, I'd think that they'd at least try to help somehow.
And yeah, Franky gave them all that money, but he also threw out all he had left in a bar full of unknowns. He's just that type.
I just can't picture Franky with the strawhatts, he's just too, wierd.
[snapback]73301[/snapback]I couldn't at first either, but Oda really strives to make his characters unique. I never would have guessed that they would take in a shape shifting reindeer.
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i think cap`n carter said all i planned on saying on that subject :P
and buc i really dont see lulu and tilestone being as close to paulie as franky and the FF are not by a long shot,
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I agree with Paulie being "in the same position" as Lulu and Tileston, and that the only way-For now- he stands out, is his fighting style, Personality, and more spotlight. He has SH potential, but so could Lulu have, if Oda focused on him more.
Tileston on the other hand, is too old and had too little an introduction panel to be considered.Franky is harder to eveluate, but I think he has had enough serious moments (just like Paulie) so that he doesn't seem like a total goof; this is SH characteristics. And then there's his whole Flashback.
I hope both will join, but regardless who does, My fear is that it'll be like in a RPG, when you get a pretty cool character 3/4ths through, but he never becomes truly integrated or used in your party.
Now, As for REASONS for joining, I think a pretty good one would be simply because the person needs to flee W7. I know, I know, "People should join because they like the straw hats, and want's to be a part of the crew. But, both Nami and Robin joined with ulterior motives in mind, and grew to love the crew. A Paulie or Franky being headhunted by the WG could join out of need, just like Robin, and they both have likings for some of the crewmembers (Luffy, Usopp) already.
Because they will get wanted, or at least Franky and Paulie will.
Once the Eneas Lobby fights start, I'm pretty sure Paulie will participate, and Franky is fighting Nero as we speak. Now, Oda doesn't kill. So unless Cp9 and everyone on Puffing Tom gets amnesia, the WG will know who the bastards harrasing them are.
But FF, Lulu and Tileston won't neccesarily fight-I know they have motives, and may take on a few underlings, but they won't face off with Cp9 who could recognize them. Perhaps FF will assume new identeties in W7, I don't know.
Iceburg couldn't get arrested either-it would be questioned by the citizens, and bring up the Pluton Issue. Other accusitations would be too weak.That leaves Paulie and Franky, whom the marines could hunt with good reason.
Thats' just my theory. I trust you guys to find the holes in it :P
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_Originally posted by wolfwood+Jun 21 2005, 03:55 AM–>QUOTE(wolfwood @ Jun 21 2005, 03:55 AM)
and buc i really dont see lulu and tilestone being as close to paulie as franky and the FF are not by a long shot,
[snapback]73379[/snapback]I never said they were. What I did say was Pauly his love for the company.
@Jun 21 2005, 04:42 AM
Now, As for REASONS for joining, I think a pretty good one would be simply because the person needs to flee W7. I know, I know, "People should join because they like the straw hats, and want's to be a part of the crew. But, both Nami and Robin joined with ulterior motives in mind, and grew to love the crew. A Paulie or Franky being headhunted by the WG could join out of need, just like Robin, and they both have likings for some of the crewmembers (Luffy, Usopp) already.__Nami was asked by Luffy, and Robin….should never be included in these discussions. :P
She didn't join for protection, I don't think. She just simply had no other place to go, since Luffy didn't allow her to go to the afterworld._
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Nami was asked by Luffy, and Robin….should never be included in these discussions.
Actually, both Nami and Robin are exceptions; they both suggest they work with Luffy, and he agrees afterwards.
http://groups.msn.com/onepiecemanga/onepie…oto&PhotoID=197Aaaand after chapter 359, I'd say Robin could be included.
http://groups.msn.com/OnePieceMangav-2/one…to&PhotoID=3426
Both intented to Use the SH, but grew to like them.
Unless, of course, Oda pulls a major plot twist, and Robin is a bitch after all. Oh, I'd like to see that. -
I kinda said how Luffy had asked Nami…... I don't deny her using Luffy in the beginning. I also said that I don't include Robin, since she's really an exception to just about every "new crewmember" rule. And she wasn't really using them, she was just sailing with them.
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I didn't mean to offend you, and I did read your post; Luffy did ask Nami to join, but I simply showed that Nami took the initiative. I also know what you said about Robin, I just meant to say that, IMO, Robin isn't so big an exception, and did intend to use them in the beginning, posting the second link as my reason.
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Eh, I wasn't offended, I just didn't think you got what I meant.
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Originally posted by Solid@Jun 20 2005, 05:20 PM
What do you mean with the first sentence?I meant the Strawhats never left any place without a good bye scene and Water 7 will be no difference. So in that case we will probably see how the rebuilding of the city will begin just as it was the case at Arbana.
Please justify about the second thing.
To justify about the second thing would mean to rewrite all the main points that I´ve contributed into the discussion AGAIN which you have actually either avoided or ignored because most of your responses had nothing to do with the core of what I´ve tried to say. So I´m not going to justify. Read my posts again carefully and slowly and then read some of your responses. If you are cautious you should get what I mean. ;)
You saw how angry Franky was when the SH defeated FF, when he gave 5 million bellie to them and when the FF didnt say to Lucci where Franky was, and now, they they want rescue him. And I havnt seen any special bond between Paulie and Tilestone or Lulu, have you? if so please say.
And your point is? A couple of chapters ago Sanji kicked a tied up Franky right into the face and he wanted to get back at him for that. Only a couple of chapters later Franky is already trying to impress him with his built in fridge. I don´t see that much of a hate here.
Besides, you act as if this is the first time in the world that a story uses the "First we are enemies but once we reallize who the true bad guys are we´ll all see that we were wrong and we´ll work together" concept. It happened in so many series or movies before. I don´t see why it shouldn´t work here.I mean that the WG probably doesnt work off their ass just to find a pirate who isnt even a big threat to WG. And Pirates under 100 million isnt that BIG threat to WG. And was in Eastblue, and pirates who had over 10 million in bounty there was considered to be big threat to eastblue.
And just what proof do you have that somebody who keeps the secret of the Ancient Weapon Pluton (a weapon that can destroy the world) and at the same time directly opposes the WG won´t be considered as a threat to the World Government? Bring some real arguments please that negate what I´ve just said in the last sentence.
I just can't picture Franky with the strawhatts, he's just too, wierd.
[snapback]73301[/snapback]Well you´re no newbie here on the forums so you should be aware of the fact that there´s plenty people who still can´t take that Usopp is with the Strawhats. But just because it looks wrong to them it doesn´t mean that it can´t be.
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Ivotas, when you say that W7 will be no diffrent then all other places, that they say good bye and so on. Maybe this time WILL be diffrent? Perhaps it is to early to say really, we have to see how the fights in Eneas Loby will affect the Gouverment. Probably it will be as you say, but don't be to suprised if it wouldn't. :P
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i just remembered a thing when i watched episode 232,
iceburg said to luffy earlier on to luffy when they first meet that if one of his carptenters wanted to join him he wouldnt mind if he took him.
so im sure if paulie wanted to join the strawhats and luffy due to debts and/or bounty or just free will i dont think iceburg would stand in the way no matter how it would affect the company.
well my fanboyish rant is over oh and by the way go paulie :P
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That just brings up the fact that he didn't ask and wasn't asked. And that was before three employees left.
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but even thougt 3 workers left he has still said that if one of his workers wanted to leave and join the strawhats he wouldnt stand in the way,
and i dont think he would go back on his word and force him to stay if he wanted to leave even if it would mean a big loss to the company,and im just saying if he was asked he would have iceburgs permission to join and he probably will be asked since paulie is the greatest thing since sliced bread :P
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He won't stand in the way, maybe. Who's to say he won't need his new top 3 to help repair? But even if he doesn't mind, Pauly might. Would he leave his company in that state? And again, what matters is what Luffy thinks.
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he doesnt really need them it would just make things alot easier for him i mean the company wont go down just cause luchi,kaku and kalipha left and it wouldnt fall apart without paulie either.
they are a great resource to the company but not essential for it to function as many seem to think.
and the damage to W7 and the docks isnt all that bad IMO nothing that they cant rebuild rather quickly with their amount of manpower.
oh and luffy has bonded with paulie so there is a distinct chance of him asking him to be their shipwright ;)
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….He still doesn't call him by his name.
But like I said, a problem would be with Pauly. Is he willing to leave?
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nah he doesnt :lol: but he knows that hes one of the 5 best shipwrights in W7 and he seemed very impressed at paulies spirit and his "i will fight til im reduced to a single bone" mentality and the fact that hes the only pro shipwright that luffy has bonded with so far.
and here is where your right to me its just a matter if paulie is willing to leave W7 and i think he will choose to join them for some reason/dream that im leaving up to Oda :P or simply be forced to leave it due to bounty or something like that.
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_Originally posted by Robin Stjernberg+Jun 21 2005, 12:16 AM–>QUOTE(Robin Stjernberg @ Jun 21 2005, 12:16 AM)Ivotas, when you say that W7 will be no diffrent then all other places, that they say good bye and so on. Maybe this time WILL be diffrent? Perhaps it is to early to say really, we have to see how the fights in Eneas Loby will affect the Gouverment. Probably it will be as you say, but don't be to suprised if it wouldn't. :P
[snapback]73588[/snapback]Actually I would be very much surprised if this arc specifically won´t have a good bye scene because first they don´t have a ship, so they have to go back to either take a repaired Merry or get a new ship at W7 and secondly all their stuff is still at the city. And I just can´t see Nami leaving Bellereme´s tangerines as much as 100 million Berry behind. :P
@Jun 21 2005, 02:45 AM
iceburg said to luffy earlier on to luffy when they first meet that if one of his carptenters wanted to join him he wouldnt mind if he took him.__Well I brought the point up in so many discussions before so I can do it one more time.
Luffy didn´t even consider asking Paulie to join. If you look back at Zoro, Nami, Sanji and Chopper he was annoying the hell out of them to become his nakama. He wanted a fighter and got Zoro, he wanted a navigator and got Nami, he wanted a cook and got Sanji, he wanted a doctor and got Chopper and right now in this arc he wants a carpenter.
And before all the stuff between him and Usopp happened he was together with the Dock 1 shipwrights and the only one who impressed him was Hattori.As far as Franky is concerned, he and Luffy only met once in a fight. Luffy was never in the position to consider Franky as one of his nakama so far. That could be different now since Luffy is traveling together with the FF and Sanji is getting along with Franky already._
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well he didnt annoy nami until after she propsed that they should work togheter and told him that she was a good navigator,
luffy hadnt considered her before either and she turned out to be the best navigator he could ever have gotten :P,and usopp or robin wasnt annoyed into joining usopp was just asked to be a part of the crew at the end of the arc(as i think paulie will be) and robin just showed up at the ship and was accepted so that argument proves nothing really since its been shown that Oda doesnt strictly follow any such pattern when it comes to people joining,
and in dock 1 he seemd plenty impressed by all the top 5 and their powers as i saw it,
just that their first priority was the repair of merry then after that they would try to get a shipwright to join.and before they could finish either they were informed that merry was dying and then usopp was beaten and robbed and so the prioritys had to change pretty quickly and they got other more urgent problems to deal with and thats why i think he didnt even tried ask any of them to join.
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Originally posted by Ivotas@Jun 20 2005, 06:00 PM
To justify about the second thing would mean to rewrite all the main points that I´ve contributed into the discussion AGAIN which you have actually either avoided or ignored because most of your responses had nothing to do with the core of what I´ve tried to say. So I´m not going to justify. Read my posts again carefully and slowly and then read some of your responses. If you are cautious you should get what I mean. ;)I just don't get what you mean it will be the same thing for Paulie to leave as Franky leaving FF, it isnt the same thing and I want to know why you think so.
And your point is? A couple of chapters ago Sanji kicked a tied up Franky right into the face and he wanted to get back at him for that. Only a couple of chapters later Franky is already trying to impress him with his built in fridge. I don´t see that much of a hate here.
Besides, you act as if this is the first time in the world that a story uses the "First we are enemies but once we reallize who the true bad guys are we´ll all see that we were wrong and we´ll work together" concept. It happened in so many series or movies before. I don´t see why it shouldn´t work here.My point is that Frankys bond is much greater than the bond between Paulie and Lulu or Tilestone. I just wrote all the things the've done for eachother so far.
And just what proof do you have that somebody who keeps the secret of the Ancient Weapon Pluton (a weapon that can destroy the world) and at the same time directly opposes the WG won´t be considered as a threat to the World Government? Bring some real arguments please that negate what I´ve just said in the last sentence.
Ah, yeah I forgot that he possesed the blueprints of Pluton… Sorry my bad. But he can escape with his crsew, living as pirates or something. And if he joined Luffy with the blueprints, then the strawhatts would have all the supreme admirals and Shichibukai after them, since they have power to build Pluton..
Well you´re no newbie here on the forums so you should be aware of the fact that there´s plenty people who still can´t take that Usopp is with the Strawhats. But just because it looks wrong to them it doesn´t mean that it can´t be.
But, Usopp can act normal, Franky can't hes always hyper active, but he was more normal before he was cyborg. :P
Thanks Wolfwood for supporting Paulie. ^_^
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_Originally posted by wolfwood+Jun 21 2005, 07:58 AM–>QUOTE(wolfwood @ Jun 21 2005, 07:58 AM)well he didnt annoy nami until after she propsed that they should work togheter and told him that she was a good navigator,
luffy hadnt considered her before either and she turned out to be the best navigator he could ever have gotten :P,Excuse me but he already wanted her to join him in the Buggy arc. And even if it would be like this that he only wanted her to join ever since he found out that she´s a navigator there´s still the fact that Luffy knew that Paulie is a shipwright the moment he saw him steal their money.
and usopp or robin wasnt annoyed into joining usopp was just asked to be a part of the crew at the end of the arc(as i think paulie will be) and robin just showed up at the ship and was accepted so that argument proves nothing really since its been shown that Oda doesnt strictly follow any such pattern when it comes to people joining,
That´s why I said in my last post that he searched for a fighter, a navigator, a cook and a doctor and got Zoro, Nami, Sanji and Chopper that way. He never searched for an sharpshooter or an archeologist in the first place it was fate that brought them together. Do you think that it is a coincidence that those character´s that Luffy wasn´t searching for back in the days are now the only two that seem to leave the Strawhats? ;)
With Usopp it has already been established in this arc that he just jumped on the wagon as much as it was the case for Robin from the very beginning. And right now this arc will probably do it´s part to establish that Luffy wants Usopp and Robin as much as he wanted Zoro, Nami, Sanji and Chopper.and in dock 1 he seemd plenty impressed by all the top 5 and their powers as i saw it,
just that their first priority was the repair of merry then after that they would try to get a shipwright to join.Already a wrong statement. If he was impressed with some guys then just with Lucci, Kaku and Paulie. Lulu was just there and Tilestone didn´t even appear in this scene.
Other then that though his main priority was to repair Merry he already had time to freak out because of Hattori so if his mind is already set to such a behaviour it could also have be so for the look out for a carpenter.and before they could finish either they were informed that merry was dying and then usopp was beaten and robbed and so the prioritys had to change pretty quickly and they got other more urgent problems to deal with and thats why i think he didnt even tried ask any of them to join.
[snapback]73773[/snapback]Doesn´t matter, the moment that Luffy sees somebody he wants him. For instance he wasn´t annoying the hell out of Sanji during his fight with Don Krieg. He did it before and after the fight but not during it.
@Jun 21 2005, 09:58 AM
I just don't get what you mean it will be the same thing for Paulie to leave as Franky leaving FF, it isnt the same thing and I want to know why you think so.__Seriously if you still don´t get it then what do you want me to do to you to understand it. If you are not able to see it then I can´t help you.
My point is that Frankys bond is much greater than the bond between Paulie and Lulu or Tilestone. I just wrote all the things the've done for eachother so far.
You didn´t do anything of that kind. Maybe you think so but you didn´t. Just tell me what exactly is this that proves that Franky´s bond with FF is greater then the one between Paulie and his co-workers.
Ah, yeah I forgot that he possesed the blueprints of Pluton… Sorry my bad. But he can escape with his crsew, living as pirates or something. And if he joined Luffy with the blueprints, then the strawhatts would have all the supreme admirals and Shichibukai after them, since they have power to build Pluton..
I seriously doubt that anyone will build Pluton. If the Strawhats would have it then you can already burry One Piece because from then on the Strawhats don´t have any challenges anymore. I think that Franky and Iceburg will burn the blueprints now that they both now that there´s no need for them anymore since they´ve misjudged Nico Robin.
But, Usopp can act normal, Franky can't hes always hyper active, but he was more normal before he was cyborg. :P
That wasn´t my point. Besides we´ve already seen Franky act normal if you want to discuss that. Actually he was completely normal until she showed himself to Luffy. Other then that he isn´t that freakish in his current fight with Nero._
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Im in a hurry so I wont quote.. It just takes too much time..
"Seriously if you still don´t get it then what do you want me to do to you to understand it. If you are not able to see it then I can´t help you."
I just want you to say why it is the same thing, because I donät think it is same thing.
"You didn´t do anything of that kind. Maybe you think so but you didn´t. Just tell me what exactly is this that proves that Franky´s bond with FF is greater then the one between Paulie and his co-workers."
… You really need to the re-read the W7 arc if you think that Paulie has the same bond with his workers that Franky have with his family.
"I seriously doubt that anyone will build Pluton. If the Strawhats would have it then you can already burry One Piece because from then on the Strawhats don´t have any challenges anymore. I think that Franky and Iceburg will burn the blueprints now that they both now that there´s no need for them anymore since they´ve misjudged Nico Robin"
I never said that they will build it, but if Franky joins with the blueprints then they can build it, can not will. And if the WG knows that then they will send out everything they got against them becasue they may think that they will try to build it.
"That wasn´t my point. Besides we´ve already seen Franky act normal if you want to discuss that. Actually he was completely normal until she showed himself to Luffy. Other then that he isn´t that freakish in his current fight with Nero."
I dont want to discuss this, I just said my opinion about him. -
nah thats where you got it wrong nami was the one that first suggested that they should work togheter in the begining of the buggy arc and only later on in that arc when luffy learned that she could navigate is when he asked her to join his crew,
and i wrote that first line mostly as a joke like paulie could be like nami somone who luffy didnt even considere but who turnes out to be the catch of the day :P
and i wouldnt trust the "formula" your refering to too much since its been proven that Oda doesnt go strictly by it as in the cases with usopp and robin,
and thats where i stand you can argue all youd like about that it has to follow the formula in the W7 arc cause hes specificly looking for a shipwright but in my eyes Oda has shown that it doesnt always have to go by the "formula" of luffy instantly nagging on a person he see and that he could just choose his shipwright later on when all the major problems are settled which to me would seem much more logical since luffy has way bigger things on his mind than just finding the best shipwright for his crew.btw and as i saw it he didnt really search for a swordsman/fighter he just happend to meet a guy who was rumored to be strong and then blackmailed him into joining him :lol:
and that he didnt really choose sanji the moment he saw him he decied he was the one when he saw his kindness towards Gin and when Paulie (hopefully) or franky( <_< ) does something similar that shows luffy hes the kinda man hes looking for he will ask :)haha right i meant that just the 3 kaku,paulie,and Luchi impressed him.
but why are you getting so hung up on hattori for ?
he was freaked for like a second or two that it could talk whats the big deal with that.and i stand by my statment that luffys mind was occupied with way bigger things than his choice of shipwright like what happend to usopp at the hands of the FF and that his dear friend left the crew then its merrys Death and then its the fact that his nakama is being taken to prison.
im sure he will start to annoy someone when all is settled or maybe there wont be any anoying maybe the shipwrigth will join willingly who knows?
this is such a confusion and innovativ arc so i dont think any one can tell what will happen. -
Originally posted by wolfwood@Jun 20 2005, 09:20 PM
he seemed very impressed at paulies spirit and his "i will fight til im reduced to a single bone" mentality
[snapback]73700[/snapback]You mean the spirit that wanted them to wait till morning to go after the puffing tom? The one that's afraid of getting involved with the World Government? The one that was ready to die by the Aqua Laguna crashing into the Rocket Man before Luffy and Zorry put a hole in it? While Luffy might've been impressed before, I don't think he likes people getting in the way of him rescuing his friends.
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_Originally posted by Solid+Jun 21 2005, 12:39 PM–>QUOTE(Solid @ Jun 21 2005, 12:39 PM)I just want you to say why it is the same thing, because I donät think it is same thing.
Are you blind or what? I already mentioned above why it is the almost the same thing. You didn´t back up your view. So instead of letting me rewrite everything (which you will probably ignore again) why not just check it again?
… You really need to the re-read the W7 arc if you think that Paulie has the same bond with his workers that Franky have with his family.
Oh thank for suggesting me to re-read it again. :rolleyes: How about take just for one time your Paulie-is-the-greatest-character-in-this-world glasses of for a second and look at the thing OBJECTIVE which you obviously didn´t do so far?
If Paulie wouldn´t have had a strong bond with the company then why does he suffer so much that he´s been practically been stabbed in the back by Lucci and Kaku? I mean if they don´t have a strong bond together then he could have easily been like "Eh, I´ve never trusted those two guys in the first place!".
I never said that they will build it, but if Franky joins with the blueprints then they can build it, can not will. And if the WG knows that then they will send out everything they got against them becasue they may think that they will try to build it.
LOL, you´re killing me now. And you surely tell me to re-read the arc again. The whole point of Pluton is that the WG doesn´t have anything that could stop it. Oh wait maybe I got it wrong and I should re-read it again starting from Alabasta. :lol:
I dont want to discuss this, I just said my opinion about him.
[snapback]73844[/snapback]How old are you anyway? Why do you back up as if I´ve hurt your feelings? You´ve just made a statement and I wrote a response to it and now you don´t want to discuss it. :rolleyes:
@Jun 21 2005, 01:02 PM
nah thats where you got it wrong nami was the one that first suggested that they should work togheter in the begining of the buggy arc and only later on in that arc when luffy learned that she could navigate is when he asked her to join his crew,__Well it seems that there was a little misunderstanding. I was talking about him being the first one who approached her about joining the crew while you are right that Nami asked him first about a cooperation.
and i wouldnt trust the "formula" your refering to too much since its been proven that Oda doesnt go strictly by it as in the cases with usopp and robin,
and thats where i stand you can argue all youd like about that it has to follow the formula in the W7 arc cause hes specificly looking for a shipwright but in my eyes Oda has shown that it doesnt always have to go by the "formula" of luffy instantly nagging on a person he see and that he could just choose his shipwright later on when all the major problems are settled which to me would seem much more logical since luffy has way bigger things on his mind than just finding the best shipwright for his crew.Every artist no matter of what art has ingenius and has a lot of unpredictable characteristics in his work. However it is a specific of artists that they have a certain style that make you recognize their work. It´s like someone´s handwriting. And as far as Oda is concerned he has definitely a recognizable this-character-will-join style.
I can´t even believe that it is still discussed who will join. The carpenter thing should have been clear ever since the name Cutty Flam was mentioned. Afterwards Franky´s flashback should have done the thing. At beginning of this arc the carpenter thing was the main focus, but right now actually us fans should be attracted by the trains situation, the Usopp and Robin leaving situation, what´s expecting them at Eneas Lobby and how the hell will they defeat CP9. That is actually what should be in our minds right now. Even though Luffy didn´t ask Franky to join the carpenter thing should actually be cleared already. But it is always brought back into discussion by Paulie fans. I´ve yet to see a neutral person to say Paulie will join and who can back that up with another argument expect "But Paulie is the greatest character of all time."btw and as i saw it he didnt really search for a swordsman/fighter he just happend to meet a guy who was rumored to be strong and then blackmailed him into joining him
You don´t really want me to explain you why Luffy didn´t act in the first arc where he didn´t have neither a ship nor a crew as he would do during a mega arc as a wanted pirate so you? ;)
and that he didnt really choose sanji the moment he saw him he decied he was the one when he saw his kindness towards Gin and when Paulie (hopefully) or franky does something similar that shows luffy hes the kinda man hes looking for he will ask
True that but so far I haven´t seen not one compliment from Luffy towards Paulie about how cool or useful he is. I mean even Usopp got a compliment for the idea with using oil against the Kuroneko Pirates.
haha right i meant that just the 3 kaku,paulie,and Luchi impressed him.
but why are you getting so hung up on hattori for ?
he was freaked for like a second or two that it could talk whats the big deal with that.It just proves that Luffy is still capable of thinking about other things though he´s still trying to fix Merry. Not more not less.
and i stand by my statment that luffys mind was occupied with way bigger things than his choice of shipwright like what happend to usopp at the hands of the FF and that his dear friend left the crew then its merrys Death and then its the fact that his nakama is being taken to prison.
I´m sorry but Luffy´s mind is never that occupied that he can forget about a thing that is important to him. Merry is one of the important things, but finding a carpenter who can take care of it is as much important as repairing it so it´s not like it is something that he will forget easily. He never forget´s the important stuff.
im sure he will start to annoy someone when all is settled or maybe there wont be any anoying maybe the shipwrigth will join willingly who knows?
this is such a confusion and innovativ arc so i dont think any one can tell what will happen.
[snapback]73849[/snapback]We can´t tell how they will beat CP9, how Usopp and Robin will return, if they will catch up with the Umi-Ressha nor what will happen at Eneas Lobby. But just as I said the carpenter thing should actually be clear to everyone now. Oda gave us all information that we need to understand who will be taken. The story is focusing on other material now._
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_Originally posted by wolfwood+Jun 21 2005, 03:58 PM–>QUOTE(wolfwood @ Jun 21 2005, 03:58 PM)well he didnt annoy nami until after she propsed that they should work togheter and told him that she was a good navigator,
luffy hadnt considered her before either and she turned out to be the best navigator he could ever have gottenIt was just the circumstance. She was presented as a robber and she didn't know he was a pirate. When he found out she could navigate and she found out he was a pirate, then it became a nagging situation.
and in dock 1 he seemd plenty impressed by all the top 5 and their powers as i saw it,
just that their first priority was the repair of merry then after that they would try to get a shipwright to join.He wasn't really wowed with any besides Kaku, and he's not the type to care whether they're the 5 best or anything.
@Jun 21 2005, 09:02 PM
btw and as i saw it he didnt really search for a swordsman/fighter he just happend to meet a guy who was rumored to be strong and then blackmailed him into joining him :lol:__Uh, yes he did. He asked Coby about him and then said he wanted him as a crewmate.
and i stand by my statment that luffys mind was occupied with way bigger things than his choice of shipwright like what happend to usopp at the hands of the FF and that his dear friend left the crew then its merrys Death and then its the fact that his nakama is being taken to prison.
Well, there was a small bit of time before Kaku returned with the bad news…_
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But, Usopp can act normal, Franky can't hes always hyper active,
Yeah, he sure was hyperactive when CP9 busted down his door and KO'd his two closest subordinates, and was just BOUNCING off the walls when they said they murdered his childhood pal, and no one could stop him when he was tied up in a thorned whip and CP9 was stepping all over his memories.
Seeing how straight forward and all business he's been on the "Train Intrusion Mission," I'd wager he can act "normal."
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Originally posted by Ivotas@Jun 21 2005, 09:05 AM
Are you blind or what? I already mentioned above why it is the almost the same thing. You didn´t back up your view. So instead of letting me rewrite everything (which you will probably ignore again) why not just check it again?But I dont remeber that you wrote that… :x
**Oh thank for suggesting me to re-read it again. :rolleyes: How about take just for one time your Paulie-is-the-greatest-character-in-this-world glasses of for a second and look at the thing OBJECTIVE which you obviously didn´t do so far?
If Paulie wouldn´t have had a strong bond with the company then why does he suffer so much that he´s been practically been stabbed in the back by Lucci and Kaku? I mean if they don´t have a strong bond together then he could have easily been like "Eh, I´ve never trusted those two guys in the first place!".**
Honestly if you think that Paulie really has good bond with his workers(excluding Lucci, Kaku and Iceburg) then you're definitly wrong, we havnt even seen anything that shows that they have a great bond. If you have seen it, then please tell me wich chapter and page.
yeah, those two was the probably the only ones wich he was friend with, Iceburg is of course his friend but more on a father way.
LOL, you´re killing me now. And you surely tell me to re-read the arc again. The whole point of Pluton is that the WG doesn´t have anything that could stop it. Oh wait maybe I got it wrong and I should re-read it again starting from Alabasta. :lol:
…. What do you think they would do? Just sit back and relax? I meant that they would chase them if they have Robin and Franky with the BP, not if they had Pluton.
How old are you anyway? Why do you back up as if I´ve hurt your feelings? You´ve just made a statement and I wrote a response to it and now you don´t want to discuss it. :rolleyes:
That's irrevelant.
and I don't get what you mean? Hurt my feelings? I just think it pointless to discuss if I think he's hyper active or not.What wrong with you? You seems to be quite angry, why? Can't you just behave yourself, or what? I never meant to be mean or anything against you.
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solid has a point you do seem slightly pissed off and your argumentation with solid contains quite alot of insults and it seems your trying to demean him in various ways.
well i for one have no problem beliving that its still being dicussed cause it hasnt been settled yet Oda hasnt yet counted out neither paulie or franky so its still open to discussion,
and on the part where you say that its already been decieded i think ill settle with just saying that its quite stupid of you to think you got Odas plot all figured out,
you can just guess and usualy all our guess are dead wrong :lol:and the compliment for usopp was said like more than half way thru the arc so whats stopping it from happening to paulie before this arc has ended.
and the fact that he took like 2 secs of his time to be amazed that hattori could speak really means nothing to me in whether luffy had time to focus on something other than merrys repairs,
and he didnt really forget about it he just put it on back burner while he dealt with more urgent matters such as merrys death and the usopp situation.
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and the compliment for usopp was said like more than half way thru the arc so whats stopping it from happening to paulie before this arc has ended.
What compliment for Usopp?
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wolfwood:and that he didnt really choose sanji the moment he saw him he decied he was the one when he saw his kindness towards Gin and when Paulie (hopefully) or franky does something similar that shows luffy hes the kinda man hes looking for he will ask
Ivotas: True that but so far I haven´t seen not one compliment from Luffy towards Paulie about how cool or useful he is. I mean even Usopp got a compliment for the idea with using oil against the Kuroneko Pirates.
that compliment about his oil plan,
and the point i was trying to make is that there still is plenty of time for luffy to take more serious intrest in paulie and think that hes cool when he does something to shows luffy that hes the kinda man hes looking for.
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_Originally posted by Solid+Jun 21 2005, 08:00 PM–>QUOTE(Solid @ Jun 21 2005, 08:00 PM)Honestly if you think that Paulie really has good bond with his workers(excluding Lucci, Kaku and Iceburg) then you're definitly wrong, we havnt even seen anything that shows that they have a great bond. If you have seen it, then please tell me wich chapter and page.
yeah, those two was the probably the only ones wich he was friend with, Iceburg is of course his friend but more on a father way.
But that´s exactly my point. We haven´t seen any proof that he liked Lucci and Kaku more then Lulu and Tilestone. Ok it is just my personal interpretation that he liked them equally but there´s definitely no proof where Paulie says "I like Lucci and Kaku much more then Tilestone and Lulu because I have a stronger bond with them"
…. What do you think they would do? Just sit back and relax? I meant that they would chase them if they have Robin and Franky with the BP, not if they had Pluton.
Of course they wouldn´t just relax but my point was that no matter what they do they wouldn´t be much of a challenge to the Strawhats. You take the interesting part away if the protagonists are superior to everything. That the point.
What wrong with you? You seems to be quite angry, why? Can't you just behave yourself, or what? I never meant to be mean or anything against you.
[snapback]74036[/snapback]Well I didn´t mean to offend you but your way of argumentation is certainly somehow troublesome. I mean I write constructive thoughts down which takes me some time since english isn´t my maternal language. And then I always get responses that indicate that you didn´t even consider to see anything right in them. No personal offense but your responses just have the "No matter what he says I´ll stay for my opinion." This is somehow troublesome because I´m beginning to wonder myself why I´m writing then in the first place.
As I said I really didn´t mean to offend you, but it just is a fact that Paulie and Franky both have reasons to stay. I admit that for Franky too however from your point of view it appears as if only Franky has reasons to stay.
Then Franky has been far more developed then Paulie right now. This is a fact that can´t be denied. If you like Paulie more then this is fine with me. But it gets somehow troublesome if we are aiming for an objective discussion.
Whatever Paulie has, Franky has it too but SO FAR Paulie doesn´t have everything that Franky has. This has been established in the arc itself and negating it is actually just being ignorant because of the attraction towards a certain character.
That´s actually why I got fired up in the discussion. It´s not personal but I just have the feeling that there´s a certain lack of objectivity here which makes a discussion troublesome.
@Jun 21 2005, 08:14 PM
solid has a point you do seem slightly pissed off and your argumentation with solid contains quite alot of insults and it seems your trying to demean him in various ways.__I think I´ve just explained why that appears so. I didn´t mean to offend him but just as I said I just can´t shake that feeling that this discussion is lacking some objectivity which makes it difficult if you want to discuss on a logic way.
well i for one have no problem beliving that its still being dicussed cause it hasnt been settled yet Oda hasnt yet counted out neither paulie or franky so its still open to discussion,
Well you´re definitely right that Oda hasn´t said it with words who will join. However the way how both characters have been portrayed so far should actually already let us understand where we will be going. Unless of course something totally twisted happens that turns everything around. But so far we´re not there and random assumtions just can´t be taken as evidence.
and on the part where you say that its already been decieded i think ill settle with just saying that its quite stupid of you to think you got Odas plot all figured out,
you can just guess and usualy all our guess are dead wrong :lol:What plot are you actually talking about? I would really like to know because it makes an argumentation difficult if I don´t know what I´m defending against. :mellow:
and the compliment for usopp was said like more than half way thru the arc so whats stopping it from happening to paulie before this arc has ended.
I don´t say that it won´t happen but he´s so completely not attracted to Paulie so far and Usopp and Sanji on the other hand are already stunned with Frankie´s fridge. Yeah it is a very short moment but it is a typical OP moment and it is already something. Especially when you consider that Sanji kicked Franky some chapters before that.
and the fact that he took like 2 secs of his time to be amazed that hattori could speak really means nothing to me in whether luffy had time to focus on something other than merrys repairs,
But finding a good carpenter is actually also what´s required to save Merry. I mean it´s like when Nami was sick. They didn´t just need someone to give her medicine but also someone who could watch over her on board and by a long thought be there if another crewmember gets sick.
I don´t understand why finding a good carpenter is secondary since he would actually be the one to save Merry´s "life". So finding him is actually something that should be included into the saving Merry thought. At least it appears logic to me.and he didnt really forget about it he just put it on back burner while he dealt with more urgent matters such as merrys death and the usopp situation.
[snapback]74045[/snapback]I never said that he forgot it. Hence my above statement, he wasn´t focusing on recruting Sanji when he fought Krieg. It´s a completely different arc but the "more important matters" argument is here too._
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Originally posted by Ivotas@Jun 21 2005, 03:10 PM
But that´s exactly my point. We haven´t seen any proof that he liked Lucci and Kaku more then Lulu and Tilestone. Ok it is just my personal interpretation that he liked them equally but there´s definitely no proof where Paulie says "I like Lucci and Kaku much more then Tilestone and Lulu because I have a stronger bond with them"Well, since he seems to be more friendly to Kaku and Lucci than on Lulu and Tilestone, and they're all probably in the same age and there's that talk
Of course they wouldn´t just relax but my point was that no matter what they do they wouldn´t be much of a challenge to the Strawhats. You take the interesting part away if the protagonists are superior to everything. That the point.
You think so? If all the Shichi bukais came and the thee vice admirals… You think they would make it? I dont think they can beat, but maybe they could espace for while...
**Well I didn´t mean to offend you but your way of argumentation is certainly somehow troublesome. I mean I write constructive thoughts down which takes me some time since english isn´t my maternal language. And then I always get responses that indicate that you didn´t even consider to see anything right in them. No personal offense but your responses just have the "No matter what he says I´ll stay for my opinion." This is somehow troublesome because I´m beginning to wonder myself why I´m writing then in the first place.
As I said I really didn´t mean to offend you, but it just is a fact that Paulie and Franky both have reasons to stay. I admit that for Franky too however from your point of view it appears as if only Franky has reasons to stay.
Then Franky has been far more developed then Paulie right now. This is a fact that can´t be denied. If you like Paulie more then this is fine with me. But it gets somehow troublesome if we are aiming for an objective discussion.
Whatever Paulie has, Franky has it too but SO FAR Paulie doesn´t have everything that Franky has. This has been established in the arc itself and negating it is actually just being ignorant because of the attraction towards a certain character.
That´s actually why I got fired up in the discussion. It´s not personal but I just have the feeling that there´s a certain lack of objectivity here which makes a discussion troublesome.
[snapback]74036[/snapback]**
Yea I know, thats probably because im not so good at english… ^^
Of course Paulie also has willing to stay, but I only think his obstacle is Iceburg. Though he also need dream to join them..
Thats right, but that doesnt mean that he will join. :P
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Originally posted by Solid@Jun 21 2005, 09:50 PM
Well, since he seems to be more friendly to Kaku and Lucci than on Lulu and Tilestone, and they're all probably in the same age and there's that talkWell ok, both of us are speculating here right now. But I think that just because we´ve seen more of Lucci and Kaku it doesn´t mean that they meant more to him then Tilestone and Lulu. Lucci and Kaku just needed more screen time as shipwrights then the other two because of having their turn having a greater impact. But other then that the difference in screen time I don´t see a difference in the bond between Paulie and them and Paulie and Tileston and Lulu.
You think so? If all the Shichi bukais came and the thee vice admirals… You think they would make it? I dont think they can beat, but maybe they could espace for while...
Well yes I think so because if it wouldn´t be like that then the entire hype about them would just be wasted. Besides the Ancient Weapons are labeled as power that can destroy the earth. Neither the Shichibukai nor the Three Admiral Supremes have be labeled as that.
Yea I know, thats probably because im not so good at english… ^^
Really? I didn´t think so. That´s probably why I misunderstood the whole thing. Well sorry. :D
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with the plot what i really meant was just what you just said in your latest post :lol:
that you shouldnt say that its been decieded already who will join cause there could yet be plot twists that would totaly change every thing like for example what if franky sacrifies himself to save the others ?
or the other way around that there could be something like that which would stop Paulie from joining to im just saying be open minded til its been decieded by Oda.and to continue on the doctor thing the most urgent first priority was to find a doctor that could cure the very ill nami and the quite distant second was finding a doc to travel with them and cure future sickness.
i think its the same now they were first gonna get merry repaired then when that first priority is done start looking for the shipwright to travel with them and now other things came up so the shipwright choice is on the backburner.
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Yeah but what I meant with the plots being totally twisted is as if for instance Drum arc would have been turned in that way that Luffy didn´t beat up until Dalton arrived, Dalton then came to deal with Wapol and completely surpassing Chopper. Or at Baratie Paty could have surpassed Sanji. I mean now it appears silly to us to think of such a thing because we already know these arc completely but back then while the arcs were fresh we could have had the same argumentations.
Still everything is possible but the way how everything developed so far and still develops (ch. 372) it has to be a very huge twist to make Paulie surpass Franky. And I´m sorry but I don´t see Oda focusing the next twenty chapters on Paulie. There´s much more important stuff then that.
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as i see it, there is alot behind all this focus on franky, its not farfetched that he will be the next crew member, people are loving him more and more now that we are seeing alot of him or about him with the recnt chapters..
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Which crewmember will they get after the shipwright?
What's that role on a ship where you enforce dicipline on a crewmember?
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Errr…..slavemaster?
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…Captain?
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I got it from my Sid Miyer's Pirates game.
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Originally posted by Don Krieg@Jul 3 2005, 12:25 AM
I got it from my Sid Miyer's Pirates game.
[snapback]82392[/snapback]:huh: No offense, but your posts get more and more confusing. :wacko: You might wanna fill us in what you´re talking about?
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Quartermaster? I never played Pirates!, but that'd be my guess.
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Originally posted by Ivotas@Jun 24 2005, 03:52 AM
Still everything is possible but the way how everything developed so far and still develops (ch. 372) it has to be a very huge twist to make Paulie surpass Franky. And I´m sorry but I don´t see Oda focusing the next twenty chapters on Paulie. There´s much more important stuff then that.
[snapback]75895[/snapback]Twenty?! :D He just need 2 chapters. And I agree that there will be alot of important stuff going on Eneas Lobby, thats also why i doubt that Franky will join, becasue he will not have any time to build a bond with Luffy till after the big fight.. and IMO thats kinda late…
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It's not too late until they leave the island.
2 chapters is enough for a flashback, but not really enough to flesh out a character.
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Exactly what I was going to say Buc.
Appart from the build up that Paulie would still require, Paulie so far hasn´t a lovely character gimmick as the other Strawhats have so far. And the focus of my argumentation lays on the word lovely.
Let me elaborate what I mean.
Luffy is eating all the time and doesn´t mostly get what others are talking about.
Zoro is always sleeping and has a bad sense of direction.
Nami wants money.
Usopp is always scared and tells a lot of lies.
Sanji is flirting with every beautiful girl he encounters.
Chopper still gets scared from people from time to time and he believes everything.
Robin is always reading her books in every situation.Now Paulie has also something that would follow the lines and that´s when he always yell at girls that show to much skin. While I really consider his behaviour funny it would certainly get on my nerves after a while quite obviously because of the fact that his character gimmick includes yelling and shouting.
I understand that not everyone likes all of the Strawhats character gimmicks, but at least none of them include yelling and shouting. I´m not saying that the Strawhats never resort to yelling and shouting, but it is not a part of any of their gimmicks.
Paulie´s gimmick on the other hand is just yelling and shouting in this certain situations. If this stays his only gimmick then I´m sure that I´m not going to be the only person who will get annoyed by it after a while.I´m not saying that Franky´s poses are cooler then Paulie´s yelling (well to me they are but I don´t say that everyone has to feel that way). However Franky´s posing doesn´t include yelling and shouting and would fit more along the lines of the Strawhats in the term of lovely then Paulie´s gimmick.