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    Professor Clover and Gol D. Roger

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    • A
      Aldaron42
      last edited by
      A
      spiral
      Aldaron42
      spiral

      Before I get to the meat of this topic, a quick little time line summary:

      26 years ago, Gol D. Roger learns of his incurable disease and embarks on his voyage through the Grand Line with his crew.

      23 Years Ago, Gol D. Roger and crew, after passing Sky Island at least (and having Roger deposit his message in the ancient language on the side of the belfry), reach Raftel and deposit "one piece" and learn of the "true history" of the world. Gol D. Roger also disbands his crew at this time and submits to the World Government.

      22 years ago, Gol D. Roger is executed in Loguetown

      20 years ago, Professor Clover and the scholars of Ohara are accused of crimes against the World Government, and a buster call used on Ohara, effectively destroying it.

      Alright, well recently, in chapter 507 page 6 last panel, Gol D. Roger's first mate and vice captain, Silvers Raleigh, says that Roger was unable to decipher the Ancient Language.

      However, on the previous page, 5 second panel, Raleigh confirms that he and the crew know the "true history." Since the Poneglyphs are all engraved in the Ancient Language, and since Roger was unable to decipher (only write), this leads to the first assumption: that Roger and Raleigh had a nakama (no translation here the word is meant to be nakama and translating to friend doesn't do it the justice it deserves in this manga) that could read the ancient language.

      Now comes the tricky part, building upon that assumption. Who was this mysterious individual who could read the ancient language?

      I propose that this mysterious individual was none other than our (and Robin's) beloved Professor Clover. I make this assumption based on what Raleigh says on page 7 in the first panel:

      "We could never hope to match the intellect of a genius like Clover, or or the scholars of Ohara."

      Raleigh speaks of Clover as though he is a buddy, going so far as to separate him from the scholars in Ohara. Why would Raleigh specifically mention Clover if he did not know him at one point? How did the pirates really come to learn the true history? They had to have someone on the ship who could read the ancient language, and I am going to assume to that Raleigh's familiarity with Clover is due to the fact that Clover was in fact a nakama on that ship.

      There is also Raleigh's cryptic message in the last panel of page 5 where he says "we….and the people of Ohara might have been too hasty," almost directly implying that the knowledge was shared between the two. If this is true, there had to be a connection. Why not the strong Clover, who was able to stand after being shot face to face?

      Raleigh mentioned how Roger secretly disbanded his crew, and due to the doctor on the twin capes being uncaught, we can assume that some of his crew wasn't directly known by the World Government. Raleigh also mentioned how the disbanded crew didn't really keep in touch.

      I believe that 23 years ago, Roger disbanded his crew which included Clovis, and Clovis went to Ohara where he recruited people to fully understand the true history for the next 3 years.

      One chink in this theory is the idea that if Clovis did read the Rio Poneglyph, he wouldn't need to know the true history. I counter first by asking what exactly the Rio Poneglyph is. Robin has hinted that it might merely be the connection of all the Poneglyphs, but if this true, then how could be "located" at Raftel if the Poneglyphs are scattered throughout the world?

      However, some would counter this by saying the last piece is at Raftel, which is certainly a fair assumption. Let us assume this is true for the moment. If this is the case, then that means it must hold the most important piece of information.

      Note when Clovis was explaining what he referred to as a theory to the World Government, he stated that he knew the name of the ancient kingdom. Is it not fair to assume that the last piece would have the most important piece of information, the name of this kingdom, the name that could do such harm to the World Government?

      I hypothesize that Clovis did in fact read the Poneglyph on Sky Island, and he did in fact read the "last piece," the Rio Poneglyph. However, what he read was not the complete history, but simply what he learned from the Poneglyphs that he read and the Rio Poneglyph. He hypothesized the rest and returned to Ohara to discover the rest of the Poneglyphs.

      Thoughts?

      I'd really like to hammer out what exactly the Rio Poneglyph is (as in if it is just what Robin told us and all the Poneglyph together or if it is something special on Raftel), and discuss the significance of the name of the Ancient Kingdom if I am correct and its name was the information written on whatever was there at the end on Raftel.

      –---------------------------------------------------------------

      Well, this is my first post in these forums, so I'll just say hi to Arlong Park! ^_^

      Also, I'll be the first to admit that my knowledge of One Piece is limited to first time reading of the manga and viewing of the anime, and there are certainly factors that I might have misinterpreted or forgotten, so if there is a clear answer to this, I apologize in advance. I also apologize if this was better suited for the "theories that don't deserve their own thread" topic; I just think that the Ancient Kingdom is vital and will soon become a huge part of One Piece, so any connection / relation to it should be discussed by any fan of One Piece.

      Finally, I posted this in another site, but that specializes in another Manga, so I figured I might as well post my thoughts in a One Piece specific place as well. If you see this thread somewhere else...don't worry! It was me!

      On the path to discover the True History.

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      • Buuhan1
        Buuhan1
        last edited by
        Buuhan1
        spiral
        Buuhan1
        spiral

        I haven't read your whole post, but it IS "Loguetown". It's nicknamed "The Town of the Beginning and the End" for a reason beyond Gol D. Roger. Oda does research, he knew Prologue (Beginning) and Epilogue (End) both ended with "logue".

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        • A
          Aldaron42
          last edited by
          A
          spiral
          Aldaron42
          spiral

          Lol, I'm sorry if I came off assuming too much there. I more meant to say that to ME specifically it was Roguetown.

          I didn't mean to imply that Oda was misinformed or anything. I'll edit that out.

          On the path to discover the True History.

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          • GuetaMinute
            GuetaMinute
            last edited by
            GuetaMinute
            spiral
            GuetaMinute
            spiral

            Epicly long first post is epicly long.

            But you do raise a point there. Sadly, I suck ass with these theories and discussion, therefore will leave this smart thread. Good day. Haha.

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            • E
              estarapapax
              last edited by
              E
              spiral
              estarapapax
              spiral

              But why did Gol D. Roger surrender to the Marines? Rayleigh said that they had already FINISHED their journey, that's why he surrendered. If Clover is in their crew and Clover hadn't known the complete true history there yet, then their journey should have still continued. Rayleigh said that they know what happened during the Void Century so I guess Rayleigh is already speaking of the COMPLETE true history. This suggests that Clover is not among them.

              Also Rayleigh said to Robin that she should not assume Roger was able to decipher the ponyglyph in Skypea. Rayleigh said that Roger had the power to hear the voice of "all things". So it is only Roger.

              Quoting one Rayleigh's words "We were mere pirates… we can't hope to match the genius intellect of Clover or the people of Ohara." Indirectly, you can conclude from this passage that Clover is not a member of their crew. Rayleigh is distinguishing themselves (Roger's crew who are pirates) from Clover and the people of Ohara.

              Trafalgar Law for Straw Hats!!

              A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
              • A
                Aldaron42 @estarapapax
                @estarapapax last edited by
                A
                spiral
                Aldaron42
                spiral

                @estarapapax:

                But why did Gol D. Roger surrender to the Marines? Rayleigh said that they had already FINISHED their journey, that's why he surrendered. If Clover is in their crew and Clover hadn't known the complete true history there yet, then their journey should have still continued. Rayleigh said that they know what happened during the Void Century so I guess Rayleigh is already speaking of the COMPLETE true history. This suggests that Clover is not among them.

                I have to disagree with this point, because it is indirectly stated that the doctor from the Twin Capes joined the crew not only to keep Roger alive, but also to find the crew that left Laboon. Since he didn't accomplish this goal, we can make the assumption that Raleigh meant finished as in they reached Raftel, not that each individual's dream / goal was realized.

                Also Rayleigh said to Robin that she should not assume Roger was able to decipher the ponyglyph in Skypea. Rayleigh said that Roger had the power to hear the voice of "all things". So it is only Roger.

                I'm confused here regarding your point. Yes, it is only Roger who can here the voice of all things. Raleigh stated how Roger couldn't decipher the Poneglyphs though. How did they read the True History then?

                Quoting one Rayleigh's words "We were mere pirates… we can't hope to match the genius intellect of Clover or the people of Ohara." Indirectly, you can conclude from this passage that Clover is not a member of their crew. Rayleigh is distinguishing themselves (Roger's crew who are pirates) from Clover and the people of Ohara.

                This area is hazy, and therefore up for interpretation. You interpreted it as Raleigh and Roger and crew separate from Clovis AND Ohara. I interpret it as the pirates depending on Clover to read it, therefore Raleigh separates him from Ohara.

                My point here was that the "open to interpretation" aspect in this quote opens the possibility for the rest of the theory.

                The overall point remains. How did Roger, Raleigh and the crew come to understand the True History without being able to decipher it?

                On the path to discover the True History.

                E 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                • E
                  estarapapax @Aldaron42
                  @Aldaron42 last edited by
                  E
                  spiral
                  estarapapax
                  spiral

                  @Aldaron42:

                  I have to disagree with this point, because it is indirectly stated that the doctor from the Twin Capes joined the crew not only to keep Roger alive, but also to find the crew that left Laboon. Since he didn't accomplish this goal, we can make the assumption that Raleigh meant finished as in they reached Raftel, not that each individual's dream / goal was realized.

                  You haven't countered another point I've raised. I said that Raleigh already stated that they KNOW what happened during the Void Century. He even said to Robin that HE CAN TELL ALL OF THE THINGS THEY FOUND OUT to the SH. That makes me think that Roger's crew have already found the COMPLETE TRUE HISTORY. Raleigh even said that he doesn't know though on whether the SH will arrive at the same conclusion as them or not in case the SH will know the True History. How can they conclude something if they haven't found the complete history yet?

                  @Aldaron42:

                  I'm confused here regarding your point. Yes, it is only Roger who can here the voice of all things. Raleigh stated how Roger couldn't decipher the Poneglyphs though. How did they read the True History then?

                  Yes, Raleigh stated that Roger can't decipher the glyphs in Skypea Island. He only stated that Roger can only hear the voice of "all things." Oda is not yet telling us on what exactly this power to hear the voice of all things is. But I suppose this phrase is enough to conclude that it is only Roger who "heard" (or whatever) what the glyphs are saying. Otherwise, Raleigh should have told Robin DIRECTLY that there's someone in them who can read the glyphs.

                  @Aldaron42:

                  This area is hazy, and therefore up for interpretation. You interpreted it as Raleigh and Roger and crew separate from Clovis AND Ohara. I interpret it as the pirates depending on Clover to read it, therefore Raleigh separates him from Ohara.

                  My point here was that the "open to interpretation" aspect in this quote opens the possibility for the rest of the theory.

                  The overall point remains. How did Roger, Raleigh and the crew come to understand the True History without being able to decipher it?

                  I disagree with your interpretation but even if you interpret it that way, the fact remains that he's speaking as if Clover is not a nakama to him. Raleigh directly said that Crocus was their nakama. So why didn't Raleigh tell the SH that Clover is also a part of their crew if Clover is really in that crew?

                  Trafalgar Law for Straw Hats!!

                  A 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                  • A
                    Aldaron42 @estarapapax
                    @estarapapax last edited by
                    A
                    spiral
                    Aldaron42
                    spiral

                    @estarapapax:

                    You haven't countered another point I've raised. I said that Raleigh already stated that they KNOW what happened during the Void Century. He even said to Robin that HE CAN TELL ALL OF THE THINGS THEY FOUND OUT to the SH. That makes me think that Roger's crew have already found the COMPLETE TRUE HISTORY. Raleigh even said that he doesn't know though on whether the SH will arrive at the same conclusion as them or not in case the SH will know the True History. How can they conclude something if they haven't found the complete history yet?

                    Yes, Raleigh has stated they know what happened during the Void Century. He also said that he would tell her. Neither of these points claim that they found out the COMPLETE history; they merely tell us they know what happened and that Raleigh would tell her what he knew. Adding to the confusion, if you will remember, was the fact that even Raleigh admitted that they might not know everything properly.

                    Yes, Raleigh stated that Roger can't decipher the glyphs in Skypea Island. He only stated that Roger can only hear the voice of "all things." Oda is not yet telling us on what exactly this power to hear the voice of all things is. But I suppose this phrase is enough to conclude that it is only Roger who "heard" (or whatever) what the glyphs are saying. Otherwise, Raleigh should have told Robin DIRECTLY that there's someone in them who can read the glyphs.

                    Why would Raleigh feel obligated to tell that Robin? I think the voice of all things is very shady and Oda does need to explain it a bit more, lol. Zoro mentioned "hearing" the rocks on Alabasta, but it seems to be on a more basic level than speech, almost to the level of existence if you will.

                    I disagree with your interpretation but even if you interpret it that way, the fact remains that he's speaking as if Clover is not a nakama to him. Raleigh directly said that Crocus was their nakama. So why didn't Raleigh tell the SH that Clover is also a part of their crew if Clover is really in that crew?

                    Again, Raleigh had no obligation to tell her. He purposely left out information regarding Shanks to Luffy. There would be plenty of reasons to not include Clover as his nakama, especially if there was a connection between Clover and piracy. If it was discovered that pirates knew the true history, the world government would come down pretty hard on them, no?

                    On the path to discover the True History.

                    M 1 Reply Last reply Reply Quote 0
                    • E
                      estarapapax
                      last edited by
                      E
                      spiral
                      estarapapax
                      spiral

                      ^Anyways, all my replies to you above are what I feel about your theory. I just can't imagine Raleigh keeping a secret about Clover. 😄

                      Trafalgar Law for Straw Hats!!

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                      • Zkaiser
                        Zkaiser
                        last edited by
                        Zkaiser
                        spiral
                        Zkaiser
                        spiral

                        I like how Clovers head looked like a clover.

                        ΩMEGA PIRATES: ? Members

                        Captain: Zkaiser

                        Status: Dejected.

                        Threat Level: Pink

                        Goal: Prove the Elemental Haki Theory

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                        • U
                          undead_assault
                          last edited by
                          U
                          spiral
                          undead_assault
                          spiral

                          hmmm, this is one good theory. I think maybe Roger's hearing ability is look into something's past (not just someone's) so he can know the true history.

                          And one more thing, if Clover was in Roger's crew, than 23 years ago, when Roger disband his crew, Clover will get back to Ohara. And 3 years later (20 years ago), he became the head scientist of Ohara. I dont think 3 years are enough to be the head of scientist.

                          hmmm, I'm not using any lame signature

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                          • Gorlom
                            Gorlom
                            last edited by
                            Gorlom
                            spiral
                            Gorlom
                            spiral

                            So wait.. Roger was an ESPer in the psycometric field?

                            eeeh… I really hope not.

                            Originally Posted by Ivotas

                            What the…? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm

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                            • U
                              undead_assault
                              last edited by
                              U
                              spiral
                              undead_assault
                              spiral

                              hmmm, maybe he is not an esper, he just a devil fruit user. So what is the meaning of hearing things? Did he can hear spirit talking?

                              hmmm, I'm not using any lame signature

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                              • Z
                                zerocustom1989
                                last edited by
                                Z
                                spiral
                                zerocustom1989
                                spiral

                                Perhaps he by listening to the block we was listening to the one who carved it.

                                Perhaps there were many carvers.

                                Perhaps they dont know a piece of the puzzle that would end up changing their final conclusion.

                                J

                                Check out larger(huge) pictures of One Piece flags in my deviant art gallery: http://zerocustom1989.deviantart.com/gallery/

                                Official Gol D Roger. Just added.

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                                • *Meh*
                                  *Meh*
                                  last edited by
                                  *Meh*
                                  spiral
                                  *Meh*
                                  spiral

                                  Certainly, Raleigh was under no obligation to tell Robin anything about the members of Roger's crew. But why would he mention Crocus, Shanks, and Buggy, if he didn't have to? He did it because he wanted to: Because he knew they might want to know. Unless the very fact that Clover was a crewmate might somehow tip Robin off to what the True History was, there was certainly no reason to omit his name. The only reason he might have in such an instance would be to spare her feelings on what is sure to be a delicate topic.

                                  I'm like Hisotensoku: Not here to preserve peace, nor to destroy it. I certainly can't move mountains. Mostly, I'm just full of hot air.- Meh

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                                  • P
                                    phyrros
                                    last edited by
                                    P
                                    spiral
                                    phyrros
                                    spiral

                                    @Aldaron42:

                                    23 Years Ago, Gol D. Roger and crew, after passing Sky Island at least (and having Roger deposit his message in the ancient language on the side of the belfry), reach Raftel and deposit "one piece" and learn of the "true history" of the world. Gol D. Roger also disbands his crew at this time and submits to the World Government.

                                    Neither was stated that Rogers Crew reached Skypiea nor when Roger was in Skypiea - as Roger wrote that he followed the instructions on the porneglyph its very well possible that he engraved the rock after finding One Piece which woul include that he was able to decipher the porneglyph (via "hearing" it)

                                    Raleigh speaks of Clover as though he is a buddy, going so far as to separate him from the scholars in Ohara. Why would Raleigh specifically mention Clover if he did not know him at one point? How did the pirates really come to learn the true history? They had to have someone on the ship who could read the ancient language, and I am going to assume to that Raleigh's familiarity with Clover is due to the fact that Clover was in fact a nakama on that ship.

                                    point taken, although robins flashback hints that Clover was on Ohara while she grew up but a certain lady from Ohara was definitly on a voyage 😉

                                    However, some would counter this by saying the last piece is at Raftel, which is certainly a fair assumption. Let us assume this is true for the moment. If this is the case, then that means it must hold the most important piece of information.

                                    Note when Clovis was explaining what he referred to as a theory to the World Government, he stated that he knew the name of the ancient kingdom. Is it not fair to assume that the last piece would have the most important piece of information, the name of this kingdom, the name that could do such harm to the World Government?

                                    If this was true why have the people of Ohara been to hasty? Could it be that they misread the rio pornglyph?

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                                    • M
                                      mrkaizoku @Aldaron42
                                      @Aldaron42 last edited by
                                      M
                                      spiral
                                      mrkaizoku
                                      spiral

                                      @Aldaron42:

                                      Yes, Raleigh has stated they know what happened during the Void Century. He also said that he would tell her. Neither of these points claim that they found out the COMPLETE history; they merely tell us they know what happened and that Raleigh would tell her what he knew. Adding to the confusion, if you will remember, was the fact that even Raleigh admitted that they might not know everything properly.


                                      Raylee (Reilii) actually says that they know all the history, not just the void century.

                                      Roger simply understood the poneglyphs. Roger could hear the voice of everything.

                                      母しゃべる「ドッグチーズ」

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                                      • King Kobra
                                        King Kobra
                                        last edited by
                                        King Kobra
                                        spiral
                                        King Kobra
                                        spiral
                                        This post is deleted!
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