The War With Whitebeard

Sanigo

You know, no one who has suggested Ace dying has explained how they will do that with a very powerful and competent Whitebeard still alive. Or, if they do do that, how they will be in any shape to kill Ace afterwards. This battle has been pretty even so far.

I mean, the guy can destroy Marineford in one attack. It seems to me that if this war reaches the point Ace is about to die, he could do something drastic to stop it. If Whitebeard dies, it's easily foreseeable the he could use his power to make an impact on the war. On top of all that, Whitebeard being the greatest pirate in the world right now, it seems the WG/Marines shouldn't be able to defeat him so thoroughly unless something in this battle changes.

Are people still sticking to the belief that Whitebeard is outmatched in this war? Cause recent chapters, despite Joz's questionable fate against Croc and Donflamingo, suggest anything but that.

I'm thinking people suggesting Ace dying are doing it just based on a dislike of the character. It seems like a petty stab at Ace fanboys, which I've seen none of so far. It's confusing, why do I keep seeing posters attack things that I can't confirm exist, at least one Arlong Park. This is from years ago right, when people were calling Ace cool before his loss to Blackbeard? If I'm right, I hardly see how that hate can linger.

Whitebeard will most likely be winning or even with the government until Blackbeard and his new recruits from Impel Down arrive. And yes, Ace is a terrible, underdeveloped personality devoid poochie character. That's one of the reasons I think he will die, because whatever role he serves later has the potential to be terrible. Him dying would much better for the story, and I honestly think that's what Oda is planning.

@DaeJi:

I don't think Ace will die simply because his death would serve no purpose unless Oda wants to emo Luffy up.

Besides setting up Blackbeard as a huge major villain…I'll just refer you people to this excellent post right here:
@Bill:

Y'know I honestly think Ace is going die welcoming and accepting his death.
I know it is been really clear and all.. But I am touching the hidden symbolism within it. The fact that Ace will smile, will symbolize the one trait he inherited from his father. And it will play keenly into the "Will of D."

Ace virtually has nothing in common Gold. D Roger, according to Whitebeard.
That piece of information is significant, as the Ace's death will lead up to revealing a personality trait he does share with his dad, and with many with "D" as their middle name, moments before he dies.

I think Ace at least giving some form of strong message to Luffy to prevent him from being an awful overemotional faggot.

DaeJi

@MagneticMonkey:

luffy unless ace wouldn't become an emo.

What?

Aces death would help to inrease the rivalty between BB + marines and luffy.

Luffy doesn't need a rival in that way. One Piece is not about combat, it's about adventure. The goal is to reach One Piece and become the Pirate King; Luffy has plenty of rivals for that. Having Blackbeard kill Ace so that he'll become Luffy rivals distracts from the real point of the manga since then Luffy will have to focus part of his efforts into revenge. It doesn't suit him or the manga. As far as making Blackbeard a bigger villain, he's already the story's top villain, the longest running villain, and the villain with the most potential and is a dark mirror of Luffy (including his crew). Really, he's not only done enough, but it's being foreshadowed that he's going to do more.

The only point killing Ace would serve is to please the fans that don't like him.

IrishLuigi

I bet my left nut Ace won't die.

onemoment

@Sanigo:

Whitebeard will most likely be winning or even with the government until Blackbeard and his new recruits from Impel Down arrive. And yes, Ace is a terrible, underdeveloped personality devoid poochie character. That's one of the reasons I think he will die, because whatever role he serves later has the potential to be terrible. Him dying would much better for the story, and I honestly think that's what Oda is planning.

About Blackbeard, I can see him changing the tide of this war, but he isn't on the side of the Government or the Whitebeard pirates and doesn't have a reason to kill Ace. I don't see that scenario leading to Ace's death.

But as for Ace's development, that's just up to opinion and frankly that reason you gave seems fine. I would rather wait and see then discuss that kind of thing.

smokes

WB die > Ace new Captain… then Blackbeard will atack him after the war... i mean they will meet and blackbeard will make his move X)

Luffy+Jimbei > arhipelago (unite with all) then > fishman island

shichibukai - nobody knows what will happen to them

Sanigo

@onemoment:

About Blackbeard, I can see him changing the tide of this war, but he isn't on the side of the Government or the Whitebeard pirates and doesn't have a reason to kill Ace. I don't see that scenario leading to Ace's death.

What? Blackbeard is on the government's side, he's a warlord. And no, he won't lose his position because of his small contribution to the chaos at ID. That'll be dwarfed by him, y'know, killing Whitebeard.

DaeJi

@Sanigo:

What? Blackbeard is on the government's side, he's a warlord. And no, he won't lose his position because of his small contribution to the chaos at ID. That'll be dwarfed by him, y'know, killing Whitebeard.

I think it's pretty clear that Blackbeard is on his own side. Hell, most of the Warlords are on their own side.

Sanigo

@DaeJi:

I think it's pretty clear that Blackbeard is on his own side. Hell, most of the Warlords are on their own side.

He wants to keep his position for now. And he wants to and will overtake Whitebeard (foreshadowed by Shanks a good while ago). He has no reason to attack the government, and all the reasons to fuck Whitebeard up.

Refii

I just read the spoilers, Ace doesn't die.

DaeJi

@Sanigo:

He wants to keep his position for now. And he wants to and will overtake Whitebeard (foreshadowed by Shanks a good while ago). He has no reason to attack the government, and all the reasons to fuck Whitebeard up.

I don't think he'll attack the government (anymore than his already has), but what I'm saying this that he's working to fulfill his own desires and not those of the government.

andy

@Sanigo:

What? Blackbeard is on the government's side, he's a warlord. And no, he won't lose his position because of his small contribution to the chaos at ID. That'll be dwarfed by him, y'know, killing Whitebeard.

BB on the WG side is a joke , BB is on BB side. Him breaking into ID , freeing level 6 people and what else is all part of his plan.

Do think the WG is going to say he kill WB so okay for him to break our rules and make them look like idiots . If BB does free some level 6 people and let them join his crew. Do think WG would forgive that .

BB said he wanted to be a Warlord to help get into ID , He does not have any reason to fight WB .
So people say he going and come to the war and kill WB . no one even give reason why he would do it .
If anything i see BB trying to kill WB after the war and not during it.
After war when he weaken , tired , crew is weak and his allies are not around.

Zurrgle

Well, i think Ace WILL escape, he will also carry on living.

Maybe the only way in my eyes he is going to die is if someone is going to kill Luffy/Whitebeard and he dives in to save them

But i dont see whitebeard dieing here. Well.. i have the same kind of thoery for him as i do Ace, if i he dies.. i think he'll die saving Luffy. Yes you heard right Luffy.

I don't believe for one second Dragon will make an appearance, he may overlook the even… but i dont think he will attack on this occasion. It's too early for him to make an appearance ( comparing the ''earliness'' to luffys power )

Actually, this ''war'' is going to last longer than this arc, what am i talking about

But i still believe this.. but Dragon will be the overall victor for the whole war..

DaeJi

Now would actually be a great time for Dragon to attack. With all the Marine heavy hitters battling Whitebeard, the heads of the World Government are ripe for the killing.

Sanigo

@DaeJi:

I don't think he'll attack the government (anymore than his already has), but what I'm saying this that he's working to fulfill his own desires and not those of the government.

That much is obvious, what I'm saying is he'll be on the government's side during the war.
@andy:

BB on the WG side is a joke , BB is on BB side. Him breaking into ID , freeing level 6 people and what else is all part of his plan.

Do think the WG is going to say he kill WB so okay for him to break our rules and make them look like idiots . If BB does free some level 6 people and let them join his crew. Do think WG would forgive that .

Yes, the government has showed being very tolerant and forgiving with these guys. Causing their victory in the biggest war ever is enough to forgive something so small as freeing a couple of prisoners in a chaos he didn't even cause.

Zurrgle

@DaeJi:

Now would actually be a great time for Dragon to attack. With all the Marine heavy hitters battling Whitebeard, the heads of the World Government are ripe for the killing.

Which is why it wont happen

Muah

Lol im not falling for that:P:

onemoment

@Sanigo:

What? Blackbeard is on the government's side, he's a warlord. And no, he won't lose his position because of his small contribution to the chaos at ID. That'll be dwarfed by him, y'know, killing Whitebeard.

But discussing Blackbeard, that's interesting! No, if Blackbeard arrives on this battlefield he'd better have a defense against the WG, since his actions put him at risk of being attacked by the WG. Frankly, if BB arrives on the battlefield I see him destroying both the WG forces and Whitebeard. That'd be a neat twist and place Blackbeard in a great villain role by beating everyone, and not just Whitebeard.

Anyway, if he wanted to stay a shichibukai then he wouldn't blatantly attack marines , regardless of his personality he'd try to be a little more secretive. He's not acting like he wants to remain with the WG so it just makes sense he'd betray them in full at that point. Croc did suggest BB losing his position for a reason, this isn't something they'd just look over.

andy

@Sanigo:

That much is obvious, what I'm saying is he'll be on the government's side during the war.

Yes, the government has showed being very tolerant and forgiving with these guys. Causing their victory in the biggest war ever is enough to forgive something so small as freeing a couple of prisoners in a chaos he didn't even cause.

What has the WG forgive something that even close to breaking into 1 of there 3 great strong hold while freeing god knows who.

Second we don't know any thing about these prisoner other than there worst of the worst . So how can you call it small.

Also he was suppose to be there when the war started, he is no where to be found . Hancock was going to lose her status if she did not show up.

Even if he shows up and kill WB , the WG would know he did it for him self . Plus WB would be already dead there no reason for them to kept BB around when he already break some much rules.

Zurrgle

BB wont attack the WG… Imagine how much power he will lose.. With the WG on his side he can move more freely and do much more than he could if they was after him, well... he can do it easier

Im sure if he had the WG after him he would still do everything lol

MagneticMonkey

@DaeJi:

What?

unlike.
Sorry for the nonsense.

Luffy doesn't need a rival in that way. One Piece is not about combat, it's about adventure.

Then what do you think Kid law and co are? Just people going on a happy go lucky adventure? And what do you think the new world is? A peacefull place where the yonkous meet and drink tea whily laughing at their aventures stories?

The goal is to reach One Piece and become the Pirate King; Luffy has plenty of rivals for that.

Which involves a lot of combat.

Having Blackbeard kill Ace

No.

so that he'll become Luffy rivals distracts from the real point of the manga since then Luffy will have to focus part of his efforts into revenge.

It's not like luffy will just focus on revenging ace since BB would be indirectly responsible for Aces death. May i ask you why you think that luffy will do that while he displayed at ID that he didn't directly attacked BB for defeating Ace? Luffy understand that aces has his own adventure and isn't aces bodyguard. However Aces will in fact have some consequences on BBs relation with luffy increasing the drama.

It doesn't suit him or the manga. As far as making Blackbeard a bigger villain, he's already the story's top villain, the longest running villain, and the villain with the most potential and is a dark mirror of Luffy (including his crew).

Which would be cemented by him being indirectly responsible for aces death.

Really, he's not only done enough, but it's being foreshadowed that he's going to do more.

Of course. Wbs head is waiting

The only point killing Ace would serve is to please the fans that don't like him.

Not really. It would end aces pirate career before it becomes really ugly!

Sanigo

@onemoment:

But discussing Blackbeard, that's interesting! No, if Blackbeard arrives on this battlefield he'd better have a defense against the WG, since his actions put him at risk of being attacked by the WG. Frankly, if BB arrives on the battlefield I see him destroying both the WG forces and Whitebeard. That'd be a neat twist and place Blackbeard in a great villain role by beating everyone, and not just Whitebeard.

His actions put him at risk? As far as I know no one at Marineford knows about those. And even then, all he did was attack fodder. You don't see Doflamingo being condemned by the government because he likes having vice-admirals cut each other up during his free time. Hancock was absolutely hostile towards Momonga,taking down his entire crew and refusing to go, and the guy was still waiting for her without lifting a finger against her crew. The Seven Warlords are a world power by themselves, they're allowed to get away with many things, and Blackbeard knows it.

Anyway, if he wanted to stay a shichibukai then he wouldn't blatantly attack marines , regardless of his personality he'd try to be a little more secretive. He's not acting like he wants to remain with the WG so it just makes sense he'd betray them in full at that point. Croc did suggest BB losing his position for a reason, this isn't something they'd just look over.

All he did was attack fodder. The government doesn't give a shit about that, and we know it. Blackbeard's acting like that because he knows the government will be kissing his feet when he saves their asses at Marineford.

@andy:

What has the WG forgive something that even close to breaking into 1 of there 3 great strong hold while freeing god knows who.

Second we don't know any thing about these prisoner other than there worst of the worst . So how can you call it small.

None of that matters when the prisoners themselves will be what saves the government.

@andy:

Also he was suppose to be there when the war started, he is no where to be found . Hancock was going to lose her status if she did not show up.

Even if he shows up and kill WB , the WG would know he did it for him self . Plus WB would be already dead there no reason for them to kept BB around when he already break some much rules.

Oh but he WILL show up and win them the biggest war in history. Are you seriously telling me attacking a handful of fodder guards measures up to that? Blackbeard losing his position so soon after getting pretty much nothing out of it would be bad writing, and it won't happen.

Vanessa

@onemoment:

But discussing Blackbeard, that's interesting! No, if Blackbeard arrives on this battlefield he'd better have a defense against the WG, since his actions put him at risk of being attacked by the WG. Frankly, if BB arrives on the battlefield I see him destroying both the WG forces and Whitebeard. That'd be a neat twist and place Blackbeard in a great villain role by beating everyone, and not just Whitebeard.

It wouldn't be aiming for anyone on the Navy's side. If they get caught in the crossfire of Teach's attack then it's no big deal.

Anyway, if he wanted to stay a shichibukai then he wouldn't blatantly attack marines , regardless of his personality he'd try to be a little more secretive. He's not acting like he wants to remain with the WG so it just makes sense he'd betray them in full at that point. Croc did suggest BB losing his position for a reason, this isn't something they'd just look over.

You mean like how Moria obviously stole the bodies of marine soldiers so they'd be patched up with animal parts for zombie underlings along with taking other marines' shadows so they would funcion, or how Hancock's Slave Arrow and Perfume Femur hit both pirates and marines.

It'll take a lot more than attacking marines for any of these guys to lose their spot in the Shichibukai. And like I and others have said too many times, as long as whatever Teach went to Impel Down for results in the death of Newgate then it'll more than make up for doing all that in the first place so his position as an Armed Seas will be safe.

onemoment

Well, that may be, but why would Blackeard want to be a shichibukai after this? His behavior doesn't suggest it.

Also, BB has done more then attack marines. He broke into Impel Down, which seems pretty important to the WG, while he was supposed to be preparing to fight Whitebeard. Even if he kills WB later, that breeds mistrust more then just fooling with Vice Admirals. Also, Shiryuu seems like he'd complicate things.

Also again, I'm not sure that Blackeard knows the shichibukai can get away with a lot, so much as we know they can get away with a lot. BB just doesn't care.

@sanigo Magellan knows what Blackbeard did, so clearly the government will know soon. It's also out of character for the Marines to be that forgiving even if BB kills Whitebeard, they won't trust him and question why he's with Impel Down prisoners. They'll want those prisoners back, since after all they're the one's who arrested them! It seems you're really hooked on Blackbeard staying a shichibukai but the things you're saying are too full of holes. The marines have more pride then how you're making them out. Remember, they want to control the seas, having another pirate save them isn't their goal!

@IrishLuigi I said "after this!" Blackbeard wants to be pirate king, becoming a shichibukai is only a means to an end.

IrishLuigi

@onemoment:

Well, that may be, but why would Blackeard want to be a shichibukai after this? His behavior doesn't suggest it.

Also, BB has done more then attack marines. He broke into Impel Down, which seems pretty important to the WG, while he was supposed to be preparing to fight Whitebeard. Even if he kills WB later, that breeds mistrust more then just fooling with Vice Admirals. Also, Shiryuu seems like he'd complicate things.

Did BB say he still wanted to be a shichibukai?

andy

@Sanigo:

His actions put him at risk? As far as I know no one at Marineford knows about those. And even then, all he did was attack fodder. You don't see Doflamingo being condemned by the government because he likes having vice-admirals cut each other up during his free time. Hancock was absolutely hostile towards Momonga,taking down his entire crew and refusing to go, and the guy was still waiting for her without lifting a finger against her crew. The Seven Warlords are a world power by themselves, they're allowed to get away with many things, and Blackbeard knows it.

All he did was attack fodder. The government doesn't give a shit about that, and we know it. Blackbeard's acting like that because he knows the government will be kissing his feet when he saves their asses at Marineford.

None of that matters when the prisoners themselves will be what saves the government.

Oh but he WILL show up and win them the biggest war in history. Are you seriously telling me attacking a handful of fodder guards measures up to that? Blackbeard losing his position so soon after getting pretty much nothing out of it would be bad writing, and it won't happen.

It won't be bad writing he wanted to be a Warlord to get into ID , he got into ID got he wanted or did what he had to do which was part of his plan. There no reason for him to kept his title.

Of it course it matter suppose one of those prisoners know the true histroy or know where a ancient weapon is . It be taking out one evil just to bring back one that just as bad or even worst .

Taking out fodder guards is not the problem , breaking into ID is the problem . While freeing people who are the worst of the worst . While killing WB would be great for the WG. The people that BB free can make him just as big of a problem as WB depending on who he frees and what he going to do .

BB freeing people that can harm the WG , him killing WB not going to help him when the WG going to see him just as a threat or bigger than WB. When he already betray them.

Before i forget did people forget that a VA said that no warlords is allow to go into ID and he had to ask WG for hancock.
If it was so easy to forgive the crime off freeing level 6 prisoners .Why did BB bother to break in when he could ask the WG for them. Hey WG i need some level 6 prisoner to beat WB can you get them for me.

Sanigo

@onemoment:

Well, that may be, but why would Blackeard want to be a shichibukai after this? His behavior doesn't suggest it.

For the same reason he wanted to be one before this. All the privileges of being a government-sponsored pirate.

@onemoment:

Also, BB has done more then attack marines. He broke into Impel Down, which seems pretty important to the WG, while he was supposed to be preparing to fight Whitebeard. Even if he kills WB later, that breeds mistrust more then just fooling with Vice Admirals. Also, Shiryuu seems like he'd complicate things.

He WAS preparing to fight Whitebeard, that's his whole excuse for freeing the prisoners that will win the government the war, and why it won't cause him any trouble. It WILL certainly create animosity and mistrust but that's the natural state of the government-warlord relationship. Shiryuu was just a prisoner more, don't see why he would complicate anything.
@onemoment:

Magellan knows what Blackbeard did, so clearly the government will know soon.

Yes they will, but you're losing track of your argument and taking that out of context. What I said was countering your argument that he should be wary of them instantly attacking him once he comes. Which is dumb because they don't know yet, Magellan is at Impel Down.

@onemoment:

It's also out of character for the Marines to be that forgiving even if BB kills Whitebeard, they won't trust him and question why he's with Impel Down prisoners. They'll want those prisoners back, since after all they're the one's who arrested them.

Why is it out of character lol. They've shown these traits with the warlords since forever.
@onemoment:

It seems you're really hooked on Blackbeard staying a shichibukai but the things you're saying are too full of holes.

Point them out. All I've done is debunk dumb claims.
@onemoment:

The marines have more pride then how you're making them out. Remember, they want to control the seas, having another pirate save them isn't their goal!

Blackbeard is not just "another pirate", he's part of their military force. No shame in him saving them.

@andy:

It won't be bad writing he wanted to be a Warlord to get into ID , he got into ID got he wanted or did what he had to do which was part of his plan. There no reason for him to kept his title.

Where was this said? He got into Impel Down by hijacking a marine ship and hostilely broke into the prison. How did his position help at all.
@andy:

Of it course it matter suppose one of those prisoners know the true histroy or know where a ancient weapon is . It be taking out one evil just to bring back one that just as bad or even worst .

That's just dumb what ifs, the government allows entire crews of dangerous criminals to legally run loose by sponsoring the warlords. Some freed prisoners are no different, they all have the potential to be dangerous. Besides, people who know the true history (Which is unlikely since only Robin can currently read it) are most likely killed off, they show no mercy regarding that. The prisoners in level six are just very strong silver medalists that lost to Whitebeard, someone I'm willing to bet doesn't know the true history either.

@andy:

Taking out fodder guards is not the problem , breaking into ID is the problem . While freeing people who are the worst of the worst . While killing WB would be great for the WG. The people that BB free can make him just as big of a problem as WB depending on who he frees and what he going to do .

Whoever he frees will be part of his crew, and thus part of the Warlord world power. I can see the government mistrusting Blackbeard, but like I said that's the natural state of the WG-Warlord relationship, they've always mistrusted him. He's a pirate.

@andy:

BB freeing people that can harm the WG , him killing WB not going to help him when the WG going to see him just as a threat or bigger than WB. When he already betray them.

How will recruiting soldiers that will win the government a war cause them to see Teach as a threat.

BATTYU44

Why would Blackbeard need his position to break into Impel Down

Why would the WG decide that Blackbeard keeping some prisoners with him and breaking into a prison matters more than beating Whitebeard and saving the WG.

andy

@Sanigo:

For the same reason he wanted to be one before this. All the privileges of being a government-sponsored pirate.

He WAS preparing to fight Whitebeard, that's his whole excuse for freeing the prisoners that will win the government the war, and why it won't cause him any trouble. It WILL certainly create animosity and mistrust but that's the natural state of the government-warlord relationship. Shiryuu was just a prisoner more, don't see why he would complicate anything.

Yes they will, but you're losing track of your argument and taking that out of context. What I said was countering your argument that he should be wary of them instantly attacking him once he comes. Which is dumb because they don't know yet, Magellan is at Impel Down.

Why is it out of character lol. They've shown these traits with the warlords since forever. They'll want those prisoners back, since after all they're the one's who arrested them
Point them out. All I've done is debunk dumb claims.
Blackbeard is not just "another pirate", he's part of their military force. No shame in him saving them.

Where was this said? He got into Impel Down by hijacking a marine ship and hostilely broke into the prison. How did his position help at all.
That's just dumb what ifs, the government allows entire crews of dangerous criminals to legally run loose by sponsoring the warlords. Some freed prisoners are no different, they all have the potential to be dangerous. Besides, people who know the true history (Which is unlikely since only Robin can currently read it) are most likely killed off, they show no mercy regarding that. The prisoners in level six are just very strong silver medalists that lost to Whitebeard, someone I'm willing to bet doesn't know the true history either.

Whoever he frees will be part of his crew, and thus part of the Warlord world power. I can see the government mistrusting Blackbeard, but like I said that's the natural state of the WG-Warlord relationship, they've always mistrusted him. He's a pirate.

How will recruiting soldiers that will win the government a war cause them to see Teach as a threat.

Warlords are not allow to be in ID . The WG knows warlords and not going to stay part of there power why would they let some one with people they lock up for a reason go free when they know he can betray them at any time. Those 3 prisoners name were mentioned for a reason , if Bb enter ID for them you think he going to give back the to the WG.

Before i forget did people forget that a VA said that no warlords is allow to go into ID and he had to ask WG for hancock.
If it was so easy to forgive the crime off freeing level 6 prisoners .Why did BB bother to break in when he could ask the WG for them. Hey WG i need some level 6 prisoner to beat WB can you get them for me.

What ever BB is doing in ID going to affect the World in a big way and i think it not only going to mess up WB but the marines also.

Sanigo

@andy:

Warlords are not allow to be in ID . The WG knows warlords and not going to stay part of there power why would they let some one with people they lock up for a reason go free when they know he can betray them at any time.

Warlords can betray them at any time too. It's a risk they take to keep the world balance.

Those 3 prisoners name were mentioned for a reason , if Bb enter ID for them you think he going to give back the to the WG.

No, who said this.

What are you even trying to say with this last post lol. Is this joke some bizarre way of conceding?

andy

@Sanigo:

Warlords can betray them at any time too. It's a risk they take to keep the world balance.

No, who said this.

What are you even trying to say with this last post lol. Is this joke some bizarre way of conceding?

Answer the question if was so easy to forgive the break out of level 6 prisoner why did BB not just ask for them. Why go threw all that trouble if they just going to forgive him. Why not ask for them in advance. I need these guy for me to help kill WB can i get them.

There is a reason why warlords are not allow in ID. They have warlords around to help them . One breaking into one of the 3 great strong hold and taking what he wants is not the same thing .

It would be stupid writing to go threw all of that for them to forgive him if he kills WB, when he could just ask for it in first place and be there since the start of the war.

Sanigo

@andy:

Answer the question if was so easy to forgive the break out of level 6 prisoner why did BB not just ask for them. Why go threw all that trouble if they just going to forgive him. Why not ask for them in advance. I need these guy for me to help kill WB can i get them.

There is a reason why warlords are not allow in ID. They have warlords around to help them . One breaking into one of the 3 great strong hold and taking what he wants is not the same thing .

They would've never let him break in, just like they would've never let Hancock kill fodder marines even if she asked. And yet they've both done it, and Hancock is already proved forgiven. Basically it doesn't work the way you're putting it, he had to proceed like this because he's dealing with the law. It will still create mistrust and animosity, it just won't cost him his position in a million years.

It would be stupid writing to go threw all of that for them to forgive him if he kills WB, when he could just ask for it in first place and be there since the start of the war.

No it wouldn't, you don't know what bad writing is so don't even throw that around. It's perfectly in character for the government to let Blackbeard keep his position and swallow whatever explanation he gives for the sake of the world power stability, even if they mistrust him (like they've always done all warlords).

Vanessa

@onemoment:

Well, that may be, but why would Blackeard want to be a shichibukai after this? His behavior doesn't suggest it.

So you think he was aiming for the spot in the Shichibukai just for getting into Impel Down?

lol

Also, BB has done more then attack marines. He broke into Impel Down, which seems pretty important to the WG, while he was supposed to be preparing to fight Whitebeard. Even if he kills WB later, that breeds mistrust more then just fooling with Vice Admirals. Also, Shiryuu seems like he'd complicate things.

Not as important as taking down Newgate. To the Navy and World Government doing just that is their main priority. Once he's gone they'll likely be so focused on a chance to make an influecne in the New World that even if there's mistrust it'd be quickly brushed aside due to how much more they've gained.

And Shiryu has long since been removed of his position as Impel Down's #2. He's just another prisoner now so no complications.

Also again, I'm not sure that Blackeard knows the shichibukai can get away with a lot, so much as we know they can get away with a lot. BB just doesn't care.

Of course Teach knows that, it's dumb to think otherwise.

What you think people don't notice that a guy like Doflamingo gets away iwth running slave auctions or Moria stealing their fellow marines' bodies and shadows.

EDIT:Along with Jinbei rampaging at Marine HQ prior to his imprisonment at Impel Down too. It was meant to be temporary so he can "cool off" and hopefuly change his mind.

BATTYU44

Blackbeard was defeated by Magellan.

He could stay with the WG because it would make dealing with the likes of Shanks easier.

andy

@Sanigo:

They would've never let him break in, just like they would've never let Hancock kill fodder marines even if she asked. And yet they've both done it, and Hancock is already proved forgiven. Basically it doesn't work the way you're putting it, he had to proceed like this because he's dealing with the law. It will still create mistrust and animosity, it just won't cost him his position in a million years.
No it wouldn't, you don't know what bad writing is so don't even throw that around. It's perfectly in character for the government to let Blackbeard keep his position and swallow whatever explanation he gives for the sake of the world power stability, even if they mistrust him (like they've always done all warlords).

You still did not answer my question . Whatever BB is doing in ID if the WG would forgive him so easy why did he not just ask . He would not have to break into ID if the WG would forgive him for it in the first place. I mean even croc said something about it.

So he help kill WB he could done that without breaking into ID . Right now if BB was at the war the WG would be winning so much easier .

Hancock did not kill any marines until the war start .

The problem is you guys think killing a few fodder marines is the same as breaking into ID . Freeing people who are the worst of the worst adding to his forces and he would get forgive if he kill WB . When he was suppose to be there at first place.

Also you forget one thing after this war there won't be a world power stability.

This what you guys are saying the WG is going to look at BB as some sort of savior after he kill WB. Forgive all his crimes even if could cause harm to WG . When he was suppose to help them kill WB in first place.

Maybe you guys see the WG as nice but i don't see them forgiving BB crimes if he kills WB . When it was his job .
He would not be able to kept on being a warlord if he did not help them kill WB why would they forgive his crimes ?

@ Vanessa I do think that BB only became a warlord to get into ID . It the only possible way to get there and it was part of his plan. It also the first the he did when get his status.

Sanigo

@andy:

You still did not answer my question . Whatever BB is doing in ID if the WG would forgive him so easy why did he not just ask . He would not have to break into ID if the WG would forgive him for it in the first place. I mean even croc said something about it.

Yes I did lol. It just didn't help your argument at all because it was dumb to begin with.

So he help kill WB he could done that without breaking into ID . Right now if BB was at the war the WG would be winning so much easier .

How do you even know that. Blackbeard's crew is just five people, jumping to nine main guys and possibly an army of ridiculously strong fodder is what will make him a tide-changing force.

Hancock did not kill any marines until the war start .

Hancock turned several marines into stone during her trip to Impel Down just because they annoyed her. Also what does that have to do with anything.

The problem is you guys think killing a few fodder marines is the same as breaking into ID . Freeing people who are the worst of the worst adding to his forces and he would get forgive if he kill WB . When he was suppose to be there at first place.

How is freeing people that will WIN THEM THE WAR not a forgivable offense.

Also you forget one thing after this war there won't be a world power stability.

What does that have to do with anything lol.

This what you guys are saying the WG is going to look at BB as some sort of savior after he kill WB. Forgive all his crimes even if could cause harm to WG . When he was suppose to help them kill WB in first place.

If he arrives as a tide-changing force BECAUSE of his recruiting at Impel Down, they have no choice but to forgive him.

I do think that BB only became a warlord to get into ID . It the only possible way to get there and it was part of his plan. It also the first the he did when get his status.

How can people even think this. It makes no sense.

andy

@Sanigo:

Yes I did lol. It just didn't help your argument at all because it was dumb to begin with.
How do you even know that. Blackbeard's crew is just five people, jumping to nine main guys and possibly an army of ridiculously strong fodder is what will make him a tide-changing force.

Hancock turned several marines into stone during her trip to Impel Down just because they annoyed her. Also what does that have to do with anything.

How is freeing people that will WIN THEM THE WAR not a forgivable offense.
What does that have to do with anything lol.
If he arrives as a tide-changing force BECAUSE of his recruiting at Impel Down, they have no choice but to forgive him.

How can people even think this. It makes no sense.

Okay let me get this right .
Your saying he going to get forgive because he bring a force to help kill WB
when it was his job in the first place. When maybe things would not have gotten so bad if he was there since the war started.

BB beat ace that why he get to join the Warlords of course the war would not have been the same if he was there . Hell i say the marines were counting on that power to help them in the first place.

Him becoming a warlord just to get ID makes allot of sense. It the only way to get there without fighting them.
Maybe you guys should give other reason as why he became one when the first thing he did is break into ID. Even if not the only reason it is the main one.

onemoment

The idea that Blackbeard will steal prisoners, kills Whitebeard, and continue to be a shichibukai is flawed in a few ways, but I have a new one. After WB dies, it's spread across the world that shichibukai Blackbeard killed him. I don't think Marineford would be that grateful considering their position. They're not a bunch of desparate children waiting for a hero to come a save them, they want to restore order to the world. To have even their own shichibukai break into their prison, steal their prisoners, only to steal the show and do the marines job isn't something the marines would be that grateful for. On top of that, if they wanted to do that they could have released the prisoners at any time! Clearly, the WG would have a problem with this level 6 prisoner idea.

Blackbeard killing Whitebeard then staying shichibukai would only work if, as Sanigo seems to suggest, Blackbeard goes along with what the WG wants. That's my big problem with Sanigo's idea, Blackbeard is suddenly breaking the rules, yet this prediction means Blackbeard would suddenly obey. That's a complete change in behavior that doesn't make sense.

On top of this, while I think everyone agrees just beating marines isn't a big deal, we don't know how steep the penalty for breaking into Impel Down is. At the very least I see them giving Blackbeard the Jimbei treatment, and after his plan goes through do you think he'll listen to them?

HaxeyeMihawk

The problem is that BB would be freeing people that the WG wanted erased/forgotten from history, which would likely cause a disaster in the media that the WG would be so grateful for killing WB (the better message is "We didn't need your help") that they would be willing to grant amnesty to 4 other pirates who committed heinous crimes and to BB who freed them. More importantly is the question of why would BB remain a warlord when he said he wants to shock the world, if anything he should say to hell with the govt. and declare himself the new world's strongest after taking out WB and begin heading to the NW, excepting the WG's forgiveness and remaining a Shichibukai doesn't seem right.

It'd be like "Yeah I just killed the world's strongest man, freed a bunch of incredibly strong pirates for my crew and now I'll continue to be subservient to the govt. "

Sanigo

@andy:

Okay let me get right .
Your saying he going to get forgive because he bring a force to help kill WB
when it was his job in the first place. When maybe things would not have gotten so bad if he was there since the war started.

BB beat ace that why he get to join the Warlords of course the war would not have been the same if he was there . Hell i say the marines were counting on that power to help them in the first place.

Him becoming a warlord just to get ID makes allot of sense. It the only way to get .
Maybe you guys should give other reason as why he became one when the first thing he did is break into ID. Even if not the only reason it is the main one.

This is the same government that was willing to forgive Jimbei, who blatantly attacked the government in Marine Headquarters, an even worse offense than recruiting prisoners to fight the war on their side. The only reason they temporally imprisoned Jimbei was so he would calm down, had he cooled down they would've just let it go. You guys don't seem to notice it, but the government is DESPERATE AS HELL.
@andy:

Him becoming a warlord just to get ID makes allot of sense. It the only way to get there without fight them.
Maybe you guys should give other reason as why he became one when the first thing he did is break into ID. Even if not the only reason it is the main one.

You're ignoring the fact that Teach didn't use his title AT ALL when going to Impel Down. He HIJACKED a marine ship (To go through the currents), KILLED the front guards, and then went in without any permission. What did he need the warlord position for when he did that.

@onemoment:

The idea that Blackbeard will steal prisoners, kills Whitebeard, and continue to be a shichibukai is flawed in a few ways, but I have a new one.

So far you haven't proved a single flaw. What about answering to my last post which debunked everything you've said yet?

After WB dies, it's spread across the world that shichibukai Blackbeard killed him. I don't think Marineford would be that grateful considering their position.

Blackbeard is part of the government's military force. Like I said in the post you ignored, there's no shame in him being a decisive player. All the fame he will get is beneficial for the government, that's the main thing they want their warlords to have. They will certainly be content.

They're not a bunch of desparate children waiting for a hero to come a save them, they want to restore order to the world.

They're desperate as hell, but they won't be waiting for a hero. It's their own ally they'll be expecting.

To have even their own shichibukai break into their prison, steal their prisoners, only to steal the show and do the marines job isn't something the marines would be that grateful for.

The marines don't mind the warlords getting reputation, it's the opposite. They're a world power in alliance with them, they want all the fame they can get them.

On top of that, if they wanted to do that they could have released the prisoners at any time! Clearly, the WG would have a problem with this level 6 prisoner idea.

Haha. Don't tell me you don't see the flaw here. The reason the prison break will work in the government's favor is because Blackbeard will lead them properly as part of his crew. It's not an option for the government to just free the prisoners they've tortured for ages and ask them to fight a war. Blackbeard is a completely different party, that's why it will work.

Blackbeard killing Whitebeard then staying shichibukai would only work if, as Sanigo seems to suggest, Blackbeard goes along with what the WG wants. That's my big problem with Sanigo's idea, Blackbeard is suddenly breaking the rules, yet this prediction means Blackbeard would suddenly obey. That's a complete change in behavior that doesn't make sense.

Blackbeard will kill Whitebeard not because the government wants it. It's been part of his plan for a while as Shanks foreshadowed, it will just work in favor of his warlord status as well. Blackbeard doesn't give a shit about the government, everything's just according to his plans and ambitions. He won't "suddenly obey" or "change behavior", it's all part of the same scheme that involves both taking Whitebeard's place and still keeping the convenient governmental sponsorship.

On top of this, while I think everyone agrees just beating marines isn't a big deal, we don't know how steep the penalty for breaking into Impel Down is. At the very least I see them giving Blackbeard the Jimbei treatment, and after his plan goes through do you think he'll listen to them?

Jimbei got that treatment just so he would cool off. Blackbeard will keep his composure so he certainly won't go to jail. They won't do anything to him.

andy

WTF the only reason he was able to get near a battle ship was because he was at marines HQ and he was there because he was a warlord . He would have no access to hijacked the ship if he was not a warlord. Do people need everything spell out for them. BB would not be able to get the ship if he was not a warlord and even if steal one the marines would attack right away and he would have been to far from ID to get there . Hell BB even said that luffy chaos help them . If was not for luffy things would have been even harder for them to get so close to ID with out getting shot at and more people would have attack them when they get inside.

Any way i done with this the WG is going to forgive BB for his crimes because he kill WB when it was he job in the first place . The force he bring going to help them win when he could have been there helping them since start of the war .

The WG going to see BB as savior who kill WB . Even if the World find out that he has prisoners with him who they lock away and he part of the prison break. Who for all we know could cause serious harm to the WG.

HaxeyeMihawk

BB used his status so he could be allowed at MHQ, otherwise he wouldn't be able to hijack a kairouseki marine ship to enter ID (it's in the Calmbelt).

Sanigo

@andy:

WTF the only reason he was able to get near a battle ship was because he was at marines HQ and he was there because he was a warlord . He would not had access to hijacked the ship if he was not a warlord. To people need everything spell out for them.

Yes, he got the battleship at Marineford, but what I'm saying is that doesn't justify all the trouble he went through to get promoted. There's marine ships with sea stone all over the Grand Line, not just in Marineford. It's what the marines use to move in and out of the GL. That was obviously not the reason he got the title, he went through too much trouble for it to be something so trivial.

onemoment

@Sanigo:

You're ignoring the fact that Teach didn't use his title AT ALL when going to Impel Down. He HIJACKED a marine ship (To go through the currents), KILLED the front guards, and then went in without any permission. What did he need the warlord position for when he did that.

Though you didn't response to me saying this, I just have to point out that shichibukai aren't allowed in Impel Down so his position is useless. However, yes, it's a lot easier to reach Impel Down without having to fight marines the entire way. How else was he going to do it?

So far you haven't proved a single flaw. What about answering to my last post which debunked everything you've said yet?

As for this…I want to stop responding to posts quote by quote. It tends to complicate things more then resolving anything. Brevity is next to godliness in terms of writing. Besides, it's more like "you haven't changed my mind," it's one opinion vs. another right now so don't act like I'm in a trial or something.

Moving on, the marines are desperate to a degree, but they have standards! BB using level 6 prisoners isn't the way they want to go. While shicihbukai are their pirates, those prisoners are just normal pirates. Think about it, that means pirates would be responsible for killing Whitebeard if Blackbeard is responsible, since their the guys who saved the day. The marines are cut out of the picture, useless and unneeded in this war. They want to restore order in this world, and Blackbeard's method (hell assuming it even goes that way, what if BB does something different) undercuts them. Besides that, they supposedly have their own plan for killing Whitebeard. Why would they put up with BB taking control away from them like that? They won't be grateful, they'll question him. How you think they'll continue to work with him? Even if BB wanted to decieve them more, feels really forced.

Blackeard is ditching the shichibukai after this war, it's the only way that makes sense.

HaxeyeMihawk

@Sanigo:

Yes, he got the battleship at Marineford, but what I'm saying is that doesn't justify all the trouble he went through to get promoted. There's marine ships with sea stone all over the Grand Line, not just in Marineford. It's what the marines use to move in and out of the GL. That was obviously not the reason he got the title, he went through too much trouble for it to be something so trivial.

And what are the chances of him bumping into one of those, let alone in time for the war? Also wouldn't most marines be at MHQ anyway for war prep thus lowering the chances even more? And since when would gaining infamous pirates so fearsome that the WG wants them forgotten plus getting the chance to kill WB and actually being successful at it, be a trivial thing? There are silver medalists who'd give limbs for that.

andy

@Sanigo:

Yes, he got the battleship at Marineford, but what I'm saying is that doesn't justify all the trouble he went through to get promoted. There's marine ships with sea stone all over the Grand Line, not just in Marineford. It's what the marines use to move in and out of the GL. That was obviously not the reason he got the title, he went through too much trouble for it to be something so trivial.

Are you crazy that marines ship would have gotten sink before he even get and where near ID. From marine ford to ID is short trip. Now your saying breaking into ID is trivial when only 1 person luffy has ever done it . When also only reason luffy get even close was because. of hancock .

Are we reading the same manga . You don't know what the hell BB is doing in ID he said it going to change the world and you say it's something trivial.
Well that it this time i am really done .

Your the person saying BB is going to get forgive if he get level 6 prisoners to help kill WB which would help them win the war . Now your saying that part of his plan is trivial, when you were saying it's reason the WG going to forgive him .

Sanigo

@HaxeyeMihawk:

And what are the chances of him bumping into one of those, let alone in time for the war? Also wouldn't most marines be at MHQ anyway for war prep thus lowering the chances even more.

lol what do you mean "in time for the war". The war was triggered by Teach, he had all the time in the world to steal one of those ships, and they are all over the Grand Line.
@HaxeyeMihawk:

And since when would gaining infamous pirates so fearsome that the WG wants them forgotten plus getting the chance to kill WB and actually being successful at it, be a trivial thing. There are silver medalists who'd give limbs for that.

What is trivial is the method for getting the ship, he went through too much trouble to get his position for his purpose to be just "getting the ship in this specific place instead of the million others where it would be ridiculously easy". Hence why I'm saying thinking that was his only purpose is extremely retarded.

@andy:

Are you crazy that marines ship would have gotten sink before he even get and where near ID. From marine ford to ID is short trip. Now your saying breaking into ID is trivial when only 1 person luffy has ever done it . When also only reason luffy get even close was because. of hancock .

Look at the map. He could've just gone through the calm belt, which is unpatrolled.

Are we reading the same manga . You don't know what the hell BB is doing in ID he said it going to change the world and you say it's something trivial. Your the person saying BB is going to get forgive if he get level 6 prisoners to help kill WB which would help them win the war . Now your saying that trivial make up your mind.

What is trivial is the method for getting the ship, he went through too much trouble to get his position for his purpose to be just "getting the ship in this specific place instead of the million others where it would be ridiculously easy". Hence why I'm saying thinking that was his only purpose is extremely retarded.

andy

@Sanigo:

lol what do you mean "in time for the war". The war was triggered by Teach, he had all the time in the world to steal one of those ships, and they are all over the Grand Line.

What is trivial is the method for getting the ship, he went through too much trouble to get his position for his purpose to be just "getting the ship in this specific place instead of the million others where it would be ridiculously easy". Hence why I'm saying thinking that was his only purpose is extremely retarded.

Look at the map. He could've just gone through the calm belt, which is unpatrolled.
What is trivial is the method for getting the ship, he went through too much trouble to get his position for his purpose to be just "getting the ship in this specific place instead of the million others where it would be ridiculously easy". Hence why I'm saying thinking that was his only purpose is extremely retarded.

I can see we are not reading the same manga . First only marines battle ships can get threw calm belt and that's not even 100% safe, plus there no wind how long do think it going to take to get to ID . The only other person we seen done it is Boa and that thanks to her giant sea kings.

In fact marines ships going threw the clam belt is so important that they the lie about it in the news .

No body goes threw the calm belt it is impossible only the marines and that been going on for a short while . That why elder nyon said AL is no longer safe from WG.

.

Karate D. Frank

@andy:

I can see we are not reading the same manga . First only marines battle ships can get threw calm belt and that's not even 100% safe, plus there no wind how long do think it going to take to get to ID . The only other person we seen done it is Boa and that thanks to her giant sea kings.

In fact marines ships going threw the clam belt is so important that they the lie about it in the news .
.

All these things he could do without doing some ridiculous feat like becoming Shichibukai.

And when the hell was that last bit EVER said.

AND your ignoring that they didn't come on a ship escorted, the Marines reported the ship missing and it shows up anonymously at Impel Down, no one knew Blackbeard was involved until it was too late.

And lastly tell us what the fuck magic eternal life elixer it is you think is at the bottom of Impel Down or whatever cryptic gay reason people keep making this dumb argument in any dicussion about the place.

Sanigo

@andy:

I can see we are not reading the same manga . First only marines battle ships can get threw calm belt and that's not even 100% safe, plus there no wind how long do think it going to take to get to ID .

How long do I think? It takes exactly a week starting from Amazon Lily, on a normal pirate ship, by rowing. Manga fact.

In fact marines ships going threw the clam belt is so important that they the lie about it in the news .

Blackbeard knew it.

andy

@Sanigo:

How long do I think? It takes exactly a week starting from Amazon Lily, on a normal pirate ship, by rowing. Manga fact.

Blackbeard knew it.

No the sea king would attack them , the only reason sea kings don't attack the marines battle ship is because of the season stone and thats not 100% safe .