ok i just noticed something. in alabasta and enies lobby luffy always loses but then wins. how does he get stronger in that short time. also when in w7 did he first get gear 2nd. he could have fought cp9 at icebergs if he had it.
Weird
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with the gear thing i think he said he was thinking about a way to get stronger since he lost to him
with arabasta i didn't think he got stronger i just think it was due to getting close to beating him with the water which made him stronger but thats what i thought of it
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It's a shonen.
And he probably thought about it while stuck between the two buildings.
EDIT: Also. In alabasta, Luffy really didn't get stronger, it was more like showing the WG just how strong he really was.
I think it was during the Skypiea arc when the crew started lookign for new, stronger, and more perfected attacks.
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Arabasta:
Luffy discovered Crocodile's ability is nullified when touched by water.Enies Lobby:
While in Iceberg's place, they did not know Robin's intentions. They hesitated, and didn't know if they were fighting for Robin or against her. In Enies Lobby, it was clear to the mthey fight for Robin, therefore no hesitation and full power on!And ofcourse, the gears but Luffy developed them before W7.
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Basicly what people are saying. In Alabasta Luffy fought blindly and lost. Then, he knew Crocodile's weakness and tried hard but still lost. Then, he finally won. So from that, we can take away that he just kept trying until he won. "When at first you don't succeed, try try again."
At Water 7, they didn't know that they were up against such strong opponents and they weren't focused on fighting, but getting Robin to answer them. After that, then they were focused and beating CP9 and getting Robin back. So it was that at first they had undefined resolutions, but then they knew exactly what they were doing. Just as if you were trying to figure a situation out with a friend, you can't be prepared to help if you don't know what's wrong and people are attacking you for it. After you know the whole deal, then you can make a much stronger stand against it.
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It's called plot
it really helps push the story along
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Basicly what people are saying. In Alabasta Luffy fought blindly and lost. Then, he knew Crocodile's weakness and tried hard but still lost. Then, he finally won. So from that, we can take away that he just kept trying until he won. "When at first you don't succeed, try try again."
At Water 7, they didn't know that they were up against such strong opponents and they weren't focused on fighting, but getting Robin to answer them. After that, then they were focused and beating CP9 and getting Robin back. So it was that at first they had undefined resolutions, but then they knew exactly what they were doing. Just as if you were trying to figure a situation out with a friend, you can't be prepared to help if you don't know what's wrong and people are attacking you for it. After you know the whole deal, then you can make a much stronger stand against it.
I like to think the reason he lost the second time was due to an incorrect strategy. Mizu Luffy had a serious mobility disadvantage which worked against Luffy. He also had the disadvantage of protecting his water. He didn't have that problem when he started using his blood.
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I can also see that as to keep trying. The first time he had no strategy and it showed(sometimes you can't just run into battle). The second time, he had a strategy but it was still against a strong opponent. The third time, he was able to overcome all obstacles and beat him. Indeed, strategies are important.
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ok i just noticed something. in alabasta and enies lobby luffy always loses but then wins. how does he get stronger in that short time. also when in w7 did he first get gear 2nd. he could have fought cp9 at icebergs if he had it.
read the manga :getlost:
their it`s explained in more than just 1 panel…. -
ok i just noticed something. in alabasta and enies lobby luffy always loses but then wins. how does he get stronger in that short time. also when in w7 did he first get gear 2nd. he could have fought cp9 at icebergs if he had it.
Oda was inspired by DBZ.
Goku and other Sayans became stronger after each defeat,
Luffy is Goku inspired.
Nuff said. -
k thank you for making it clear.
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In plot?
During Alabasta, Luffy lost because he wasn't 'thinking', so to speak. His first fight with Croc opened his eyes, and he was able to use his DF more creatively and try to exploit his weakness.
During Enies Lobby, I think it was observing things like soru which lead to his discovery of the gears. He couldn't have done that the first time, and he even admits that he would've lost if he just kept up his normal behaviour– takes experience to know, amrite?
In reality?
Yes, it's just shonen drama.
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(now i know the next bit in more anime orientated, dont brain me)
When using "gomu gomu no cannon" against the big guy at Franky house - maybe he noticed the build up of pressure before unleashing the move allowed for a stronger attack and started thinking of ways to use this to get stronger, finally figuring out gear 2nd whilst on the rocket man (in the anime (yes it's not 100% from Oda i know) i noticed the colour of his arms got darker whilst building up to the cannon - from normal skin tone to dark redish - in a similar way to gear 2nd)
and also watching the CP9 groups moves gave him a helping hand too
That was a good enough explaination for me to carry on watching ignorent of everything
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Badmanversion1: So… why are you in the manga section if you are talking about the anime? Even if you say you know it's not canon, doesn't change that it still doesn't apply.
What the…? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm
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16 characters of caught red handed?
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Oda was inspired by DBZ.
Goku and other Sayans became stronger after each defeat,
Luffy is Goku inspired.
Nuff said.I wouldn't really call that DBZ inspiration..
Pretty much every story with a Hero and Villain is done that way.
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You crazy? One Piece was inspired by a Vikings. Or more specifically a Japanese TV about Vikings.
I'm serious O_O Oda-sensei said so.
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ok i just noticed something. in alabasta and enies lobby luffy always loses but then wins. how does he get stronger in that short time. also when in w7 did he first get gear 2nd. he could have fought cp9 at icebergs if he had it.
There is a simple reason for why conflicts take as long as they do, and begin as "toned down" as they do, in One Piece: underestimation.
Luffy underestimated Crocodile and Lucci, and both Crocodile and Lucci underestimated Luffy. He won't pull out Gear 2 until its necessary, because it actually hurts him a lot to use it and is risky.
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You wanna know what weird? me tellin all that Im the WHITEBEARD and Ive come for your souls waving the Canon.
and Ive been here sense Oct 2007!
Canon > Opinions
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Badmanversion1: So… why are you in the manga section if you are talking about the anime? Even if you say you know it's not canon, doesn't change that it still doesn't apply.
Hi Gorlom
Just making an observation that was easier to “explain” using colour, I just referred to the anime for the specific point I was referring to, trying to make it easier to understand – :blink:
I actually never thought this whilst reading that part in the manga cause it was just another bazooka in the trans I read well untill it was pointed out to me how long it took to build up whilst i was reading the post lobby party - :wassat:
I am talking about the manga however sorry if I didn't phrase it correctly- my bad
kaze : ha ha
Deviant Art: http://badmanversion1.deviantart.com/
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You crazy? One Piece was inspired by a Vikings. Or more specifically a Japanese TV about Vikings.
I'm serious O_O Oda-sensei said so.
really? i thought that show was french or something?
Hi Gorlom
Just making an observation that was easier to “explain” using colour, I just referred to the anime for the specific point I was referring to, trying to make it easier to understand – :blink:
I actually never thought this whilst reading that part in the manga cause it was just another bazooka in the trans I read well untill it was pointed out to me how long it took to build up whilst i was reading the post lobby party - :wassat:
I am talking about the manga however sorry if I didn't phrase it correctly- my bad
kaze : ha ha
qould you link to the page where Luffy is doing this? because it still seem to me like you are using references that doesn't exist in the manga.
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About "being inspired by DB": all modern shonen are slightly inspired by that, but OP is one of those series that tries to (and succeeds at) avoiding that cliche of "getting stronger after every fight". (Bleach does that a lot more) The SH get stronger with each part of their journey, but they have a hard time showing that off until the moment rises. At the same time, as others have explained, they really need to know and understand the enemy before they can fight them effectively. It took two battles with Crocodile before Luffy finally got it right the third time. He didn't get some power surge with each defeat: he learned from his losses and used those to his advantage. The same can be said with CP9: while others already mentioned "they really had nothing to fight for" the first time around, the SH also didn't know everything about Rokushiki until experiencing it first hand. Combine that with Lucci revealing his trump card (Neko Neko Leopard) in the first fight and the resolve to save Robin and Luffy is much more ready to fight in the Enies Lobby battle. Its not like he's a Saiyan: he just has the power from the first battle and has to grow to discover enemy weaknesses to fight back.
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Do you guys honestly think that Dragonball "invented" that?
Pretty much every story with a hero has been doing that since the dawn of time.
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@Lobster:
Do you guys honestly think that Dragonball "invented" that?
Pretty much every story with a hero has been doing that since the dawn of time.
Wasn't talking about DB inventing that. I was talking about the whole crap about the "Saiyans are crushed then suddenly get more powerful".
Y'know, Negima WAS awesome…
For the first 18 volumes.
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really? i thought that show was french or something?
qould you link to the page where Luffy is doing this? because it still seem to me like you are using references that doesn't exist in the manga.
Not a problem at all Gorlom
It was page 6 + 7 of chapter 330 I think.
don't have any chapters online to show you unfortuantly, sorry
edit :
He sort of gattalings for a couple of panels building up (page6) then bazookas/cannons on the next page .
Like i said, i never noticed it before when reading it my self the first time round till some one pointed it out recently (well a couple of month back).
He could've notice how building up the pressure helped increase his power … i'm not trying to convince you - just saying thats how i justified the power up to myself
Deviant Art: http://badmanversion1.deviantart.com/
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Wasn't talking about DB inventing that. I was talking about the whole crap about the "Saiyans are crushed then suddenly get more powerful".
I'm just saying that it happens in every story. They hero always looses, then comes back more powerful..
You guys make it seem like when other mangaka do this they are "copying" dragon ball or something. When Dragon Ball wasn't original in that aspect in its own. Oda's influence from Dragonball would be more things like "Luffy's obsessive eating" or something to that nature.
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@Lobster:
I wouldn't really call that DBZ inspiration..
Pretty much every story with a Hero and Villain is done that way.
Alrighty lets call it…
Influenced.
Oda was heavily influenced by DBZ.And no, I'm not calling it copying, nor am I saying this hasn't been done before.
I'm merely saying that Oda liked some parts of DBZ and made them his own.
And yesh, I am aware that Luffy more or so studied his opponents and won once he truly knew what he was dealing with.
Common trait with sayans, they become stronger.
Not so common trait, the SH don't magically get stronger. -
Not a problem at all Gorlom
It was page 6 + 7 of chapter 330 I think.
don't have any chapters online to show you unfortuantly, sorry
edit :
He sort of gattalings for a couple of panels building up (page6) then bazookas/cannons on the next page .
like i said, i never noticed it before when reading it my self till some one pointed it out recently (well a couple of month back)
You didn't notice it (what you saw in the anime) because it isn't there in the manga. He is using the gatling to weaken the armour and then the bazoka to finish off. He did the same thing to Don kreig.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/65/10/Whatever you saw in the anime is the animators interperation, but not canon as it does not exist in the manga.
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You didn't notice it (what you saw in the anime) because it isn't there in the manga. He is using the gatling to weaken the armour and then the bazoka to finish off. He did the same thing to Don kreig.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/65/10/Whatever you saw in the anime is the animators interperation, but not canon as it does not exist in the manga.
I understand it's the animes interpretation and i accept that - but my referance to the anime was only to show the colour difference to make what I said more understandable to others (obviously didn't work). :getlost:
I was saying thats how I believe he came up with the idea in my own mind - since it didn't look (to me) like he's actually touching the armour in the chapter - obviously if those Kanji (which i can't read not being able to talk the language) near luffys hands is the sound of fists hitting metal i will stand corrected and my dreams will be shattered :(.
Feel free to think of this what you will, and if your opinion is different - fair enough.
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Luffy developed Gear 2 by chance, before Water 7
Watch movie 7: Karakuri Castle's Mecha Giant Soilder
But he didn't have any gear 2 specific moves.
He developed gear 2 moves like Soru after watching CP9.Here's Luffy's equivalant of the Rokushiki attacks
rankyaku : Gomu Gomu no muchi (whip)
Kami-e : Gomu Gomu no Duh (seen during first battle with Enel/Eneru)
Tekkai : Gomu Gomu no Balloon and Gear 3 (depends on the situation)
Shigan : Gomu Gomu no Jet Pistol
Soru : SoruFear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
Let it all go: Fear, doubt, disbelief.
FREE YOUR MIND!
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@Ne0:
Luffy developed Gear 2 by chance, before Water 7
>> Watch movie 7: Karakuri Castle's Mecha Giant SoilderBut he didn't have any gear 2 specific moves.
He developed gear 2 moves like Soru after watching CP9.Here's Luffy's equivalant of the Rokushiki attacks
rankyaku : Gomu Gomu no muchi (whip)
Kami-e : Gomu Gomu no Duh (seen during first battle with Enel/Eneru)
Tekkai : Gomu Gomu no Balloon and Gear 3 (depends on the situation)
Shigan : Gomu Gomu no Jet Pistol
Soru : Soru… Ne0 You know that the Movies is as far away from Canon as you can get (within still official material), right? The animators had fun putting Gear 2 in there but that is not and never will be where and why Luffy developed the gears.
I really can't tell if you are kidding or not.
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@Tokoro:
Wasn't talking about DB inventing that. I was talking about the whole crap about the "Saiyans are crushed then suddenly get more powerful".
Luffy's completely different from that, obviously. He even stated nothing can crush a rubber man in his fight with Moria.
Anyway, Luffy could already pull Soru/Geppou to a lesser extent even back at Arabasta. His rubber legs just snapped and sent him flying through the air. Just look at the panel where he escapes from Tashigi in the Arabasta arc.
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Notice how nobody is quoting me because I gave the correct answer?
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You didn't notice it (what you saw in the anime) because it isn't there in the manga. He is using the gatling to weaken the armour and then the bazoka to finish off. He did the same thing to Don kreig.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/65/10/Whatever you saw in the anime is the animators interperation, but not canon as it does not exist in the manga.
Although this is just merely from a fan, here's what Greg said about this:
Through a non-connecting Gomu Gomu Gatling-like series of punches, Luffy gather a tremendous force behind his fists which he unleashes similarly to Gomu Gomu Bazooka. Think of it as a concentrated Gomu Gomu Gatling. The impact of this move is supposedly greater than that of a battleship cannon. The kanji for 'cannon' are literally read as "Siege Cannon". This is indicative of the 'portable' nature of the attack not to mention Luffy does indeed use it for the first time during a siege. One will find this term used for medieval shoulder-mounted cannons that may be carried by troops.
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interesting…
I don't know if he has any concrete evidence that the gattling is not connecting though... untill its stated somewhere I choose to interperate that it does connect.
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I don't know if he has any concrete evidence that the gattling is not connecting though… untill its stated somewhere I choose to interperate that it does connect.
Animation is 98.9999% correct when working with canon attacks. The only exceptions I can think of are when attacks are censored.
Fact is, Animator X doesn't sit there and read the comic and draw the scene based on what they think. They have meetings about shit like that. Then they draw storyboards. Every little tiny decision made in the show (for better or for worse) is agonized over by poor bastards smoking cigs in a flourescent-lit room.
Again, yes, I'm merely a fan, and I've never been in the offices of Toei and I've never asked Oda, BUT judging from how he talks about the animation, who he's in contact with in the creation process and from how difficult it is to discern what he attempts to describe sometimes, I find it hard to believe they wouldn't be in close contact over things such as canon moves.
No concrete evidence, just logic. Proceed.
