Rayleigh's strength and Shakky's ability

[notactuallytom]

I've been wanting to post this since I read the spoilers. I think the thing about 100x luffy's strength might be that Shakky can tell someone's douriki like that one cp9 guy with the zipper mouth. Luffy's douriki is no doubt less than probably even blueno but since he's really good with his df and his special moves and stuff he's stronger than his douriki implies. Still, that makes this Rayleigh guy at least 50,000 douriki probably more.

Sidenote: hmm… if regular marines are 10 douriki, that means regular fishmen are typically 100 douriki?

[boiga]

uhm… douriki was a BS measuring system that has no relevance outside of the CP9.

None...

And what does this have to do with Reilly or Shakky?

[notactuallytom]

Rokushiki is definitely not cp9 specific.

And what does this have to do with Reilly or Shakky?

Did you read my post?

[Gorlom]

Think wat Boiga meant was that douriki wont be mentioned again… or used to judge strenght.

All the arcs use differentways to indicate strenght in between the opponents.

In alabasta it was the officers numbers,
in skypiea it was the survival rate of their tests,
in el it was douriki
and in thriller bark it was zombie tiers.

[BetterBetterNoMi]

You think Luffy's douriki is lower than blueno's?….

LMFAO.

[notactuallytom]

@Gorlom:

Think wat Boiga meant was that douriki wont be mentioned again… or used to judge strenght.

All the arcs use differentways to indicate strenght in between the opponents.

In alabasta it was the officers numbers,
in skypiea it was the survival rate of their tests,
in el it was douriki
and in thriller bark it was zombie tiers.

But right after we saw that Coby and helmeppo are doing rokushiki training under garp.

@BetterBetterNoMi:

You think Luffy's douriki is lower than blueno's?….

LMFAO.

I do. But that doesn't mean I think he is stronger. Douriki isn't everything for strength. I'm just saying I think that is why Shakky thinks Rayleigh is so much stronger than luffy.

[notactuallytom]

This post is deleted!

[boiga]

Sorry for being curt. It's just that like Gorlom said, the douriki system is only relevant at measuring the person's abilities within the Rokushiki method of fighting. However, it does not take into account Devil Fruit varieties that don't directly effect strength, speed and resistance, or other methods of fighting.

So, Perona would have a Zero douriki rating, but be able to defeat the entire CP9 group if her body is hidden. Therefore, douriki does not accurately judge the winner of a fight and can not be used measure an enemies potential "power" in One Piece.

[DeityofDestiny]

Rokushiki=/=Douriki

Rokushiki is a fighting style, while Douriki is a power rating.

[notactuallytom]

I'm just saying I think that is why Shakky thinks Rayleigh is so much stronger than luffy.

[Gorlom]

@notactuallytom:

But right after we saw that Coby and helmeppo are doing rokushiki training under garp.

Please explain to me VERY slowly what the hell that has to do with what I said…

You will have to pretend that I'm an idiot and make sure you cover every step in your trail of thought, because that just doesn't make sense as it is now.

[notactuallytom]

@Gorlom:

Please explain to me VERY slowly what the hell that has to do with what I said…

You will have to pretend that I'm an idiot and make sure you cover every step in your trail of thought, because that just doesn't make sense as it is now.

Ok. You said that each arc had it's own strength measurement. For enies lobby, it was douriki. Right after enies lobby, we see coby and helmeppo and garp. Coby and helmeppo display soru, which implies garp is teaching them rokushiki moves. This means that most likely, garp and many other marines are familiar with all of this rokushiki/douriki stuff. Hence, douriki is not cp9 specific and not just water7/ enies lobby arc specific either.

edit: sorry for not being clear about what I was saying the first time

[boiga]

I see what you're getting at notactuallytom. Just remember that Fukurou is the only one who has the ability to measure douriki, considering that he's likely the one who made up the system to begin with. So unless he comes back as a prominent player in the future, it is unlikely that douriki as a measuring system will ever be used again.

Also, the only people to master all 6 rokushiki techniques are the CP9. Some seem to be common knowledge, like soru, but even those are isolated to marine training. So, it's possible that Drake will use Soru, but we shouldn't expect it out of any non-marine.

[Gorlom]

@notactuallytom:

Ok. You said that each arc had it's own strength measurement. For enies lobby, it was douriki. Right after enies lobby, we see coby and helmeppo and garp. Coby and helmeppo display soru, which implies garp is teaching them rokushiki moves. This means that most likely, garp and many other marines are familiar with all of this rokushiki/douriki stuff. Hence, douriki is not cp9 specific and not just water7/ enies lobby arc specific either.

edit: sorry for not being clear about what I was saying the first time

They are familiar with rokushiki, they have not shown any familiarity with douriki which most likely ends with the EL arc even though rokushiki carries over to other arcs.

rokushiki =/= douriki.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

surely agreed that doriki wont come back into the action…(my god notactuallytom do you even read the manga??? why should oda than use a bounty orso to show us readers how strong a chara ca. is,when this doriki could be for every1..:getlost:..its like said before from boiga and gorlom)

buuut what i wanted to say is that shakky cant say how strong luffy is cause she dont know his gears.....so luffy became surly 100times stronger and so this reileigh is not anymore this big number like we all think he is..

[notactuallytom]

@Don:

surely agreed that doriki wont come back into the action…(my god notactuallytom do you even read the manga??? **why should oda than use a bounty orso to show us readers how strong a chara ca. is,when this doriki could be for every1**..:getlost:..its like said before from boiga and gorlom)

buuut what i wanted to say is that shakky cant say how strong luffy is cause she dont know his gears…..so luffy became surly 100times stronger and so this reileigh is not anymore this big number like we all think he is..

…because so far the only confirmed person able to read douriki is fukurou. Also, douriki doesn't tell you how wanted someone is by the government. Do you even read the manga? Bounties don't equal strength. Also, I don't think you read my first post. I'm saying that I think shakky can read douriki but since douriki doesn't actually measure true strength, her Rayleigh: Luffy Ratio is a gross underestimation.

edit: I think shakky is familiar with luffy's gears, though I don't think she realizes what they are. After all, it was enies lobby in which he used the gears first. She seems well informed on that incident. I think it's fair to say she knows about everything except skypiea(possibly) and thriller bark.

[Gorlom]

She seems well informed on that incident.

She read it in the paper. I hardly think they explained in detail how his fighting techniques works. Even she knows the marines lies about it in their paper.

She is most likely makeing an exaggerated estimation based on their acomplishments and their bounties. Kinda like the comment "You are 100 years to early to face me".

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@notactuallytom:

…because so far the only confirmed person able to read douriki is fukurou. Also, douriki doesn't tell you how wanted someone is by the government. Do you even read the manga? Bounties don't equal strength. Also, I don't think you read my first post. I'm saying that I think shakky can read douriki but since douriki doesn't actually measure true strength, her Rayleigh: Luffy Ratio is a gross underestimation.

edit: I think shakky is familiar with luffy's gears, though I don't think she realizes what they are. After all, it was enies lobby in which he used the gears first. She seems well informed on that incident. I think it's fair to say she knows about everything except skypiea(possibly) and thriller bark.

i knew it would come…bla bla bounty isn`t equal to strenght..but i was too lazy to say this in my post the 100 time so you got me, that fact is totally new
"the only confirmed person able to read douriki is fukurou".....sooo why this should be than a good method to analyze somebodys strengh??cause only 3 guys in the whole world could use it...mhh and it already was said that douriki are specially for "formula 6"-users..
and you think that shakky could read doriki:happy:...you know how fukurou detect the cp9-members doriki...they had to punch him so he could tell them their doriki...where does luffy punches shakky...missed that panel i think...:wassat:

+and to your edit...she knows all her stuff cause of a WG-influenced newspaper..that whys she asked luffy about his point of view to this action....and i dont think that the newspaper had a special report about luffys fighting ability's (more likely only for higher marines only)
edit:you got me in that gorlom hehe

[notactuallytom]

@Gorlom:

She read it in the paper. I hardly think they explained in detail how his fighting techniques works. Even she knows the marines lies about it in their paper.

She is most likely makeing an exaggerated estimation based on their acomplishments and their bounties. Kinda like the comment "You are 100 years to early to face me".

You think the newspaper published chopper's favorite food?

edit: at Don quichotte: "it already was said that douriki are specially for "formula 6"-users.." if that was ever said in the manga somewhere, please show me and if it really was… shit. my bad.

[Don Quichotte De Flamingo]

@notactuallytom:

You think the newspaper published chopper's favorite food?

my gosh i said you never read the manga hahaha look at the bounty-poster than even you can solve the mystic riddle

[Gorlom]

@notactuallytom:

You think the newspaper published chopper's favorite food?

Depends…. Is the paper published by the same people that give out the wanted posters? Where Chopper is nicknamed "cotton candy lover" and has a big picture of him eating some with a face.

Reference pic: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/435/016-017/

[Mr. Luffy]

@notactuallytom:

I've been wanting to post this since I read the spoilers. I think the thing about 100x luffy's strength might be that Shakky can tell someone's douriki like that one cp9 guy with the zipper mouth. Luffy's douriki is no doubt less than probably even blueno but since he's really good with his df and his special moves and stuff he's stronger than his douriki implies. Still, that makes this Rayleigh guy at least 50,000 douriki probably more.

Sidenote: hmm… if regular marines are 10 douriki, that means regular fishmen are typically 100 douriki?

I highly doubt she was able to gauge Luffy's strength acurately just be looking at him. It just tells us that Rayleigh is one tough cookie and comparable to Luffy (and the rest of the "supernovas") in strength and skill. I'm guessing Rayleigh is a real veteran ex-pirate she knows well who has never been beaten on the field or on the archepelago, which is why she rates him so highly.

[Lucky]

Could it be that Luffy's crew is being underestimate, or Shakky and the other guy is really strong which make me wonder if Shakky is really strong because she seem to be relax when talking about other people.

I mean the captain seem like a little kid, going with him is a woman and a small pet (chopper) and there is a skeleton.

[notactuallytom]

Ok, I admit. I totally didn't remember chopper having that cotton candy lover nickname. I guess you guys are right. It does seem that shakky just reads the newspapers. I probably forgot so much stuff because I read the first 492 chapters in two days instead of discussing each chapter every week like most.

[Admiral Wolfpox]

Have you considered that ONLY Fukuru could actually measure Douriki, because you actually have to smash him in order for him to measure it? C'mon, people…

[shen_ron]

@Gorlom:

She is most likely makeing an exaggerated estimation based on their acomplishments and their bounties. Kinda like the comment "You are 100 years to early to face me".

and that sum's it all up

plus about Rayleigh's strenght me still thinks that he was on Roger's ship, although it was said that Shakky is not a pirate for about 40 years.
plus second - if she was chased by Garp, that means she is something

[Power]

The way I see it.

When dealing with pirates - bounty = strength (not exactly but it gives a basic idea)

when not dealing with marines or places where people can get bounties we get some other method of determining which is the strongest from a group. In CP9s case it was douriki, for the monks it was the survival rate…etc..

[Kingoffans]

I seriously think Shakky gave an accurate estimate on Rayleigh's strength.

Rayleigh seems like one of those experienced pirates who've gone through and back again from the New World. A guy who was once like Luffy and became the monster he is today. The guy Luffy will one day become like when he reaches the pinnacle of his strength and potential.

That being settled, Shakky is just a good judge of people's strength basing it on common sense and what Rayleigh can do. Hell, she's probably stronger than Luffy, come to think of it.

[sabret00the]

wohoo. tom admitted the thread was full of dumb! we've all made at least one tom!

[regasatanum]

Not exactly translation error but its obviously Shakky is exaggerating.
Shakky mentioned Rayleight is 100 times stronger is just similiar to Whitebeard said Shanks is 100 years too young to comment. Its just japanese culture to use "100 times", she wont go precise and tell you Rayleight is 3.21 times stronger or something.

Anyway i realised one area missed translation and its an important clue.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/498/03/

The bottom right signboard actually written "Marines are not welcomed" or "Marine enter at your own risk". I think this is an important area to emphasize on the lawlessness of the groves1-29

[BetterBetterNoMi]

If Luffy's douriki are lower than Blueno's then HOW THE FUCK can he even SCRATCH Lucci if Lucci uses Tekkai, without him using Gear 3. WTF?

[Gorlom]

@BetterBetterNoMi:

If Luffy's douriki are lower than Blueno's then HOW THE FUCK can he even SCRATCH Lucci if Lucci uses Tekkai, without him using Gear 3. WTF?

Because douriki isn't like chi or chakara?
Douriki just measures how hard they hit fukuro, not how good they are at tekkai or how powerful their advanced attacks are?

Look this is a pretty stupid thread and the TC has (almost?) given up already. Just let it die.

[Captain Brooke]

It makes no sense to try to figure it out, I mean Shakky could of just been talking, how the heck does she know how strong Luffy is, sooooooooooo this is pointless!

[notactuallytom]

I've been persuaded already. I no longer have the opinion that shakky can read douriki or that douriki will play an important continuing role.