Vento Aureo's stand fights in general I think tend to be pretty good and innovative compared to the hit-or-miss nature of stands in Stone Ocean, but yeah those two detractors are pretty big detractors, especially when I think a lot of what makes JoJo really great is how the main JoJo is developed and how the main antagonist is batshit insane.
Jojo's Bizarre Adventure
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Indeed, Stone Ocean had the most "Meh" Stands in any part I can think of so far. Sadly, Jojolion is not doing much better.
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I don't like soft and wet, it's too abstract, just like gold experience, it feels like it can do anything that the plot demands, and that's boring.
3DS FC: 0516-7666-3837
SW-4128-8032-0729
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Soft & Wet is one of the better Stands from JJL imho. The other good ones are Born This Way, King Nothing and uh… I don't really like anything else. Hopefully the part improves in that aspect. Speaking of which: What kind of Stand names or references would you like to see in Jojo (again)?
My list is quite big for that, actually.- Wamdue Project (King of my Castle)
- Daft Punk
- Iron Maiden
- Frank Zappa
- Electric Light Orchestra
- Nirvana
- Judas Priest
- Rush
- Madonna
- Phil Collins
- Dream Theater
- Rammstein
- Mungo Jerry
- Jethro Tull
- Status Quo
- ZZ Top again
- Creedence Clearwater Revival
- Modern Talking
- More 90s techno single hits like Dr. Alban's "It's My Life", 2 Unlimited's "No Limit", Scatman John's "I'm A Scatman", Rednex' "Cotton Eye Joe", etc.
Also, please no more Prince references. We've had enough.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - _Sun Tzu, The Art Of War
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Funkytown
(16 characters of won't you take me to funkytown)
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I feel like daft punk needs to be one. Surprised it's not already. And nirvana for that matter
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The problem with JoJolion I feel is that the stand fights are trying to do the same thing as in Part 4, you know with the whole "people in regular life have stands and have to deal with it in ordinaryish life" while mixing it with the whole mystery thing, but it's a bit too abstract at the moment in a lot of things as a result, such as:
-How do people gain stands?
-What's with the wall eyes?
-How does the mixing stuff happen?
-Something about a stone disease?Like it's good to have mysteries but there's just a bit too much to handle at one time and is esoteric for the part that it takes away from the fun (fun fun). Also some uncomfortable scenarios made with female characters. Soft & Wet as a power is fine and I don't mind it but the problem is that everything else around it is kinda undefined. Like Les Feuilles of Extortion Road had a lot of screen time but we barely got to see much from Nat King Cole, Joshuu's stand.
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And we know Jojo can't have a lot of questions open at the same time because Araki is bound to forget many of them ever existed.
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@Purple:
The problem with JoJolion I feel is that the stand fights are trying to do the same thing as in Part 4, you know with the whole "people in regular life have stands and have to deal with it in ordinaryish life" while mixing it with the whole mystery thing, but it's a bit too abstract at the moment in a lot of things as a result, such as:
-How do people gain stands?
-What's with the wall eyes?
-How does the mixing stuff happen?
-Something about a stone disease?Like it's good to have mysteries but there's just a bit too much to handle at one time and is esoteric for the part that it takes away from the fun (fun fun). Also some uncomfortable scenarios made with female characters. Soft & Wet as a power is fine and I don't mind it but the problem is that everything else around it is kinda undefined. Like Les Feuilles of Extortion Road had a lot of screen time but we barely got to see much from Nat King Cole, Joshuu's stand.
I don't know about that. The stands in Jojolion doesn't seem to be something that would crop up in daily life, or used by regular people.
And I assume we'll see more of Nut King Cole when Joshuu gets his own fights(And hopefully becomes likable).
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Dang, I even having just read the series, I forgot the name of most of the stands. I forgot the name of lots of characters as well, at least people not part of the main group. I'll have to answer the stand questions later, but now I'm going to give my rankings from favorite to least favorite. I'll spoiler the reasons which will contain spoilers.
Part 4
! Top of the line in terms of characters, stand abilities, and overall had a great balance of humor and seriousness. If I had to give a reason why this one shined the most, it would have to be the main villain Kira. We get to see him and who he is. We see him get almost beaten but is able to think quickly to change his look. We see that he can't hide his true personality forever, but seems to have found one person he had true feelings for. The Final fight against him was the most well done ones, by having son of the identity he took outsmart him to deactivate his ability, and the fight overall being very intense. I feel that the fights were paced well overall. While not a huge disappointment, the cook guy never did anything after his initial few chapters.
Part 6
! Once again, this is helped a lot by having a great villain, and the protagonist is good to. As with part 4, the villain is shown to not be invincible, and only through thinking/luck is the villain able to get out of the situation. While the stand powers were a bit weirder, and some of the fights were a bit tedious, they were overall really good. I like how the villain was defeated, by Jolyn giving Emporio Weather Report's stand. The fight was quite intense overall with the villain only getting through by pure luck most of the time. I liked how the setting was in a prison most of the time. While I liked how it ended overall, it was still a weaker final battle, and I feel that some of the potential of the setting wasn't used to its fullest.
Part 1
! This was helped quite a bit because of the main villain, Dio. We had a number of chapters to see just how terrible of a person he is, and to build up why we want to see the guy get beaten ultimately. Jonathan was likable enough, but not quite as interesting as some of the later characters. Speedwagon, while not one who fights anyone, I liked quite a bit, and Zepelli was really cool. It does have the downfall of only JoJo being the one to actually fight and beat the bad guys, but the fights were top notch, and the satisfaction to see Jonathan use his brains to get through and harm Dio to win was really cool. The ending with Jonathan holding Dio, both about to die was quite satisfying, and really showed what their relationship was.
Part 7
! At first I felt this was going to be lower on the list, but after considering the others, I feel it deserves to be a little higher. There were some stands that were really out there that got beaten to easily, and the pacing was all over the place for the fights, some being so short that it was jarring (the one that could stop the raindrops) or way to long (President Valentine, but it's still a damn good one). Certain characters didn't get much time to shine such as Pocoloco, and Sandman was such a waste. Despite those flaws, it had lots of interesting explanations, history, and character history. Lucy got a huge payoff in the end which I was worried she wouldn't get. Jonny and Gyro were a great team, and while the identity of the saint was obvious from the get go (when you talk about miracles and show a thorn crown, you aren't being subtle), the fights for the parts were quite intense.
Part 5
! So this was an arc that had lots of potential, but it was squandered very quickly. Instead of slowly climbing the ranks of the mafia, it became more of a go from point A to B to C etc. While it did give some nice scenery, it didn't give much room for breathing as stand users were constantly attacking the group. The villain was much weaker personality wise compared to the rest, and Giovanni didn't really shine that much compared to the other characters, especially compared to the other JoJo's in the other parts. The final fight was quite a disappointment as well, with a stand gaining a hax ability to beat another, but at least they had to fight for it. This one is higher compared to the last two because the other characters were quite good overall, and the fights were very good for the most part.
Part 2
! This continued with the plot points of part 1, but unlike part 1, it didn't have the villain to elevate it to a new height. The villain were revealed, but there wasn't much reason to either like them or hate them. A number of the things that occurred were just weird, like the one Ripple Master that turned on everybody, which overall seemed pointless. Another huge problem is that there was build-up to having two other characters to actually do something, Ceasar and Lisa Lisa, but Ceasar dies before he can do anything, and Lisa Lisa gets taken out because she decided to trust the villain that wanted to rule the world. Nazi cyborg, while cool, was pointless in the end as well. Despite that, the fights were still great, the poses were amazing, Joseph was overall a pretty cool guy, and the way the final villain went down was quite cool, by shooting him into space to endlessly wonder around, where eventually he must stop thinking.
Part 3
! Big problem is while certain things were fixed, such as other people being useful, a lot of other stuff suffered with the new concept of stands. Most of the battles in the end were mediocre to disappointing. There were some good ones here and there, but none of them were that memorable, and potential was squandered, I'm looking at you Holhorse! Seeing lots of different places were cool, but there usually wasn't much breathing room between fights. Biggest problem was that this part had the most fights, which averaged around 2-3 chapters each fight. This caused the problem of fights being paced poorly, and many stands not getting justice. The biggest problem I had was Dio still being alive, which ruins the ending of One in a way, and that while a cool fight overall, the way he was defeated overall was dissatisfying. It was still good overall, because it had some nice humor, some nice character moments, and the cast was able to carry it through for the most part.
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@The:
Part 3
! Biggest problem was that this part had the most fights, which averaged around 2-3 chapters each fight. This caused the problem of fights being paced poorly, and many stands not getting justice.
I unterstand that the plot moves really slowly in Stardust Crusaders, but it's the first time I see someone complaining about the pacing of the fights. I mean, they all follow the same formula (something strage happens - it'a a stand! - protagonist is about to die horribly - escapes - he manages to survive in the last second) that is still used in part 4 and beyond. Most of the fights, specially in the second half, last 6 chapters, like in part 4, and only a couple of them are 2 chapters long, the first ones (Tower of Gray and Hierophant Green) and the joke one (The Sun).
What stands in particular are you referring to when you say that the fights do not do them justice? Some stands-users were huge dicks, yes, but all the stands were portrayed as horrifying and overpowered in their own way. -
I don't know about that. The stands in Jojolion doesn't seem to be something that would crop up in daily life, or used by regular people.
And I assume we'll see more of Nut King Cole when Joshuu gets his own fights(And hopefully becomes likable).
It's along the lines of things centered around the higashikata family, yeah, but it's more of trying to give the feel of just regular life with some hint of mystery in the background. Part 4 gave a lot of heavy usage to pretty much everyone around, but Part 8 kinda tries to go for that feel, exploring some guy's apartment investigating it and randomly finding a woman in there and a stand user, walking down the street and getting extorted out of things, going to the hospital and suddenly random biker. Eerr, maybe I mean it's trying to make use of the environment of Morioh but isn't doing it so well I guess.
And yeah we'll see Nut King Cole more but right now I'd say that some of the more interesting stands and stand designs are getting side lined a bit.
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I don't see Born this Way being usable in ANY circumstace. Just saying it.
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I don't like soft and wet, it's too abstract, just like gold experience, it feels like it can do anything that the plot demands, and that's boring.
S&W was better when it was only about stealing 'properties', or something like that, like the friction on the floor, and the reflection in your eyes.
When you could steal actual 'physical' stuff, like lifting the hairs straight off a cat, that when it seemed a bit too convenient for me. It like it could steal anything.
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Watch S&W steal time by the end of the part.
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I unterstand that the plot moves really slowly in Stardust Crusaders, but it's the first time I see someone complaining about the pacing of the fights. I mean, they all follow the same formula (something strage happens - it'a a stand! - protagonist is about to die horribly - escapes - he manages to survive in the last second) that is still used in part 4 and beyond. Most of the fights, specially in the second half, last 6 chapters, like in part 4, and only a couple of them are 2 chapters long, the first ones (Tower of Gray and Hierophant Green) and the joke one (The Sun).
What stands in particular are you referring to when you say that the fights do not do them justice? Some stands-users were huge dicks, yes, but all the stands were portrayed as horrifying and overpowered in their own way.Pacing was the wrong word to use, it was more execution, but pacing was part of it. I don't recall the names of most of the stands, so I'll have to just give the general ability.
! Some of the earlier ones were way to fast, but the only one that really bothered me was the Monkey who's stand was a ship. there was lots of potential of trying to escape the ship, or just being more creative with it. Holhorse was the worst executed one. I don't think his ability was explained, and he barely did anything. It was probably the point of his character, but I still didn't care for it and expected more out of it.
! The main problem is that I don't remember most of the fights because they aren't as memorable compared to others. Part of it comes from the fact that after reading all the chapters, there are so many fights that it's hard to remember them all from only reading through one time. If I was to give the only fight I thought was pretty great, it would be the baby's stand that attacked people in their sleep.Overall, there really wasn't many memorable fights, and most of them were average at best. I think the problem was just trying to figure out the best way to present the stands, and how to showcase them. That's why part 4 is my favorite, because even in the shorter stuff, it felt better executed. I think another problem is that I didn't feel as invested in the story compared to some others. Part 3 was basically going after one person, and there wasn't really much else going for it. Jotaro, while cool, was the least likable of all the JoJo's, except maybe for Giorno.
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@The:
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Just out of sheer curiosity, what´s your opinion about the following fights:
J.Geil and the Hanged Man http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/J._Geil
N´Doul http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/N%27Doul
D´Arby Gambler http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Daniel_J._D%27Arby
D´Arby Gamer http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Telence_T._D%27Arby
Vanilla Ice http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Vanilla_Ice -
wow every new enemy that we encounter he has a better hax stand lol
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You're an idiot if that's all you see out of the series
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Shit, I just realized Mannish Boy was played by Chopper. I never knew Chopper could sound so creepy.
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Just imagine, Mannish Boy could have been screaming out "Piiiikaaaa CHUUUUUU" and it'd be the creepiest shit ever
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@The:
Pacing was the wrong word to use, it was more execution, but pacing was part of it. I don't recall the names of most of the stands, so I'll have to just give the general ability.
! Some of the earlier ones were way to fast, but the only one that really bothered me was the Monkey who's stand was a ship. there was lots of potential of trying to escape the ship, or just being more creative with it. Holhorse was the worst executed one. I don't think his ability was explained, and he barely did anything. It was probably the point of his character, but I still didn't care for it and expected more out of it.
! The main problem is that I don't remember most of the fights because they aren't as memorable compared to others. Part of it comes from the fact that after reading all the chapters, there are so many fights that it's hard to remember them all from only reading through one time. If I was to give the only fight I thought was pretty great, it would be the baby's stand that attacked people in their sleep.Overall, there really wasn't many memorable fights, and most of them were average at best. I think the problem was just trying to figure out the best way to present the stands, and how to showcase them. That's why part 4 is my favorite, because even in the shorter stuff, it felt better executed. I think another problem is that I didn't feel as invested in the story compared to some others. Part 3 was basically going after one person, and there wasn't really much else going for it. Jotaro, while cool, was the least likable of all the JoJo's, except maybe for Giorno.
I don't agree, I think that early part 3 fights are shorter help establish the concept of stangs, but I do see your point.
Maybe you've read Jojo too fast, and you haven't had time to appreciate what you were reading. -
Just out of sheer curiosity, what´s your opinion about the following fights:
J.Geil and the Hanged Man http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/J._Geil
N´Doul http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/N'Doul
D´Arby Gambler http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Daniel_J._D'Arby
D´Arby Gamer http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Telence_T._D'Arby
Vanilla Ice http://jojo.wikia.com/wiki/Vanilla_IceI liked all of them. The way the Hang Man fight ended was cool, though when we find out Abdul lived, it took away from part of that fight. N'Doul was one of the better fights overall, and really showed how one has to think about when fighting a tricky opponent. Liked the Gambler because of how it went down, and liked the Gamer one but a little less than the Gambler. Loved Vanilla Ice mainly because of how he showed his dedication, and if he wasn't a vampire, he would've won. They were all good in their own way, especially since they were fights that were well done compared to the others, and showed the potential stand fights could have.
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@The:
I liked all of them. The way the Hang Man fight ended was cool, though when we find out Abdul lived, it took away from part of that fight. N'Doul was one of the better fights overall, and really showed how one has to think about when fighting a tricky opponent. Liked the Gambler because of how it went down, and liked the Gamer one but a little less than the Gambler. Loved Vanilla Ice mainly because of how he showed his dedication, and if he wasn't a vampire, he would've won. They were all good in their own way, especially since they were fights that were well done compared to the others, and showed the potential stand fights could have.
Well, would you include these fights in your previous post? (In your points about execution and memorability - is this even a word?)
Don´t get me wrong, Part 3 does have some very weak fights that do have those weaknesses. But there are some exceptions, and i think these exceptions (alongside with Death13 and Dio, like you mentioned) are very strong and, in the end, do make Part 3 stand out somewhat more than what you make it seem.Also, Vanilla would probably have died from a
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Well, would you include these fights in your previous post? (In your points about execution and memorability - is this even a word?)
Don´t get me wrong, Part 3 does have some very weak fights that do have those weaknesses. But there are some exceptions, and i think these exceptions (alongside with Death13 and Dio, like you mentioned) are very strong and, in the end, do make Part 3 stand out somewhat more than what you make it seem.Also, Vanilla would probably have died from a
I may have been a bit to harsh on part 3, and that wasn't my intention. I still like it overall, but the problem is that I forgot a number of the fights in the series, and even those good ones don't come close to being great like some of the ones in the other parts. They were a bit better, but the only ones that I would say that were really memorable, or at least stick out as being the best, would be N'Doul, J. Geil, Death 13, and Dio to an extent. A number of those people I had to look through to even remember some of the fights.
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Soft & Wet is one of the better Stands from JJL imho. The other good ones are Born This Way, King Nothing and uh… I don't really like anything else. Hopefully the part improves in that aspect. Speaking of which: What kind of Stand names or references would you like to see in Jojo (again)?
My list is quite big for that, actually.- Wamdue Project (King of my Castle)
- Daft Punk
- Iron Maiden
- Frank Zappa
- Electric Light Orchestra
- Nirvana
- Judas Priest
- Rush
- Madonna
- Phil Collins
- Dream Theater
- Rammstein
- Mungo Jerry
- Jethro Tull
- Status Quo
- ZZ Top again
- Creedence Clearwater Revival
- Modern Talking
- More 90s techno single hits like Dr. Alban's "It's My Life", 2 Unlimited's "No Limit", Scatman John's "I'm A Scatman", Rednex' "Cotton Eye Joe", etc.
Also, please no more Prince references. We've had enough.
It so happens that I dabbled in this a while back:
Jumpin' Jack Flash
White Rabbit
Instant Karma!
Tiny Dancer
Crocodile Rock
Crazy Train
Tumbling Dice
Rock (L)Mobster
Rapper's Delight
Brown Sugar
Heart of Glass
Blitzkrieg Bop
Van Halen
She-Bop
Hollaback Girl*
System of a Down*
Toxicity
Good Charlotte
Dirty Diana*
Anamanaguchi*
Panic at the Disco(The ones with stars I gave details and story to.)
<3
<33DS Friend Code: 2466 - 2906 - 8327 | FS: (Delibird, Bergmite, Dewgong)
PS4 Gamertag: GeoLigar
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Also real quick guys, we have confirmation now that Judgment is going to be another two-parter in the anime.
So I think it's safe to say, we have 4 episodes left, I feel confident in saying we will meet Iggy before the break, but we probably won't see the N'Doul fight.
Switch Friend Code: SW-1795-2519-1884 • Click Here to check out my Twitch Channel
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Yeah, breaking it as soon as Iggy appears is perfect. This way they end the first part with a major event (at least to the fans, if not to the plot) and start the next one amidst one of the best fights in Part III.
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Hey, guys, don't ruin too much for me yet, all I want to know is this: Is there a stand called Aqualung?
Is it Awesome?
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It so happens that I dabbled in this a while back:
Jumpin' Jack Flash
White Rabbit
Instant Karma!
Tiny Dancer
Crocodile Rock
Crazy Train
Tumbling Dice
Rock (L)Mobster
Rapper's Delight
Brown Sugar
Heart of Glass
Blitzkrieg Bop
Van Halen
She-Bop
Hollaback Girl*
System of a Down*
Toxicity
Good Charlotte
Dirty Diana*
Anamanaguchi*
Panic at the Disco(The ones with stars I gave details and story to.)
JJF is in Stone Ocean… it's quite the cool Stand imho. Some nice ideas, though - I can really get behind White Rabbit or Jefferson Airplane in general.
Also real quick guys, we have confirmation now that Judgment is going to be another two-parter in the anime.
So I think it's safe to say, we have 4 episodes left, I feel confident in saying we will meet Iggy before the break, but we probably won't see the N'Doul fight.
@.access:
Yeah, breaking it as soon as Iggy appears is perfect. This way they end the first part with a major event (at least to the fans, if not to the plot) and start the next one amidst one of the best fights in Part III.
Indeed, a great way to split.
Speaking of the second part… any wishes?
I for one wish for more Jojo 2012-style color changes and effects while characters talk. I like the higher production value of SC; but I want more weirdness to get more bizarre feelings again. -
Ooooh, what about In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida? Special power, gives speech impediments to your enemies to ruin their teamwork yet make them sound so badass. Also, whenever you feel like it, everyone must stop and listen to your 10 minute drum solo.
I really liked the animation in 2012, hope that the new season features more of that, too.
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There are many stands of part 3 that no one would remember if it weren't because the tarot motif.
Also, the next thing that you are going to say is: "I should play skullgirls"
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I should play Skullgirls.
gasp
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I had to stare at the first one a lot to get it… I was all "Why Dio is here, these are the Jojos"
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Also real quick guys, we have confirmation now that Judgment is going to be another two-parter in the anime.
So I think it's safe to say, we have 4 episodes left, I feel confident in saying we will meet Iggy before the break, but we probably won't see the N'Doul fight.
I'll still defend the posibility of 25 episodes before the break (there are infact five more weeks before Terraformars starts airing in Jojo's slot) and the N'Doul fight being completely animated, with the last episode being released with the first volume of the second bunch. It might be wishful thinking, but we'll see.
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No one wants to talk about the latest episode?
Hail2U!
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Soft & Wet is one of the better Stands from JJL imho. The other good ones are Born This Way, King Nothing and uh… I don't really like anything else. Hopefully the part improves in that aspect. Speaking of which: What kind of Stand names or references would you like to see in Jojo (again)?
My list is quite big for that, actually.- Wamdue Project (King of my Castle)
- Daft Punk
- Iron Maiden
- Frank Zappa
- Electric Light Orchestra
- Nirvana
- Judas Priest
- Rush
- Madonna
- Phil Collins
- Dream Theater
- Rammstein
- Mungo Jerry
- Jethro Tull
- Status Quo
- ZZ Top again
- Creedence Clearwater Revival
- Modern Talking
- More 90s techno single hits like Dr. Alban's "It's My Life", 2 Unlimited's "No Limit", Scatman John's "I'm A Scatman", Rednex' "Cotton Eye Joe", etc.
Also, please no more Prince references. We've had enough.
I would love an Electric Light Orchestra stand, it would fit so well. I'm imagining it having lines of neon lights all over it and stuff. could even abbreviate it to ELO, like how D4C was. Or name it Twilight, and have it develop a secondary ability called Prologue. it's ability could be to bring messages from another time. Or bring two disparate elements together, like making darkness and light, one.
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All the Korra finale stuffs made me forget there was another episode, but before we get on that
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i feel bad for polnareff :(
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The last episode was awesome, I really loved the new OSTs they used. Watching this arc when you know what's gonna happen is kinda funny, there's an insane amount of trolling.
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I would love an Electric Light Orchestra stand, it would fit so well. I'm imagining it having lines of neon lights all over it and stuff. could even abbreviate it to ELO, like how D4C was. Or name it Twilight, and have it develop a secondary ability called Prologue. it's ability could be to bring messages from another time. Or bring two disparate elements together, like making darkness and light, one.
I like your way of thinking way too much to forget it, which probably means I will end up very bitter if Araki doesn't include ELO in some shape or form into Jojo.
Or if we want to keep it within Jojolion context: Rock n Roll is King!–- Update From New Post Merge ---
@Purple:
All the Korra finale stuffs made me forget there was another episode, but before we get on that
Stag Beetles are serious business, a shame we have to wait 2 months for the next chapter.
If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. - _Sun Tzu, The Art Of War
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Stag Beetles are serious business, a shame we have to wait 2 months for the next chapter.
Damn, Joubin takes forever to shave off his eyebrow
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@Purple:
Damn, Joubin takes forever to shave off his eyebrow
He probably rereads Aida Mitsuo's works while he shaves.
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thx, the chapters takes ages before they come out.@Purple:
All the Korra finale stuffs made me forget there was another episode, but before we get on that
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Except… that's not the case especially as of late because Kewl's been able to keep up with them, and before then there were other scan groups doing quick scans before Kewl's scanlation.
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At first I was confused because I misread the title as JoJo's Bizarre Email Adventures, and then I was just straight up confused
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Oh I get it, because yeah, it all makes sense now.
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In Stardust Crusaders, Dorcus Titanus Palawanicus was a stand with a human as its master. It's bizarre enough if in Jojolion Dorcus Titanus Palawanicus will be revealed to be a stand master with a human stand.
When you are immortal nothing can surprise you.
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It's amazing how I completely erased Cameo from my mind. I remember the island, meeting "Avdol's father", but Cameo, its Stand user and everything about that fight… nah. When he appeared in ASB campaign I was all "who the hell is this guy?". The good part is that I was completely taken by surprise when Sherry came back.
