I didn't find a thread like this so I made one. As you already know Gear 2 shortens Luffy's lifespan. After they beat moria the strawhats were talking about how It is killing Luffy and he might have to do this with every strong villan. A lot of people(including me) think the gears are bad because it will be just like DBZ. Dont get me wrong DBZ was the founder of good manga/anime but after super saiyan was brought in it just,well Goku went SS for every fight. Do you think the shortening Luffy's lifespan thing is Oda's way to fix a mistake or to limit his power. Mabye it was intrudouced to kill Luffy at the end of the story.
Official Gears Disscusion
-
-
Gears aren't like Super Saiyan. The whole thing about Super Saiyan was that it was built up as "the super special awesome most powerful state EVER". Which is why it was AWESOME when Goku went Super Saiyan and beat Frieza to a pulp. However, as the series progressed, and Super Saiyan was used for EVERY FIGHT…. it became sort of cheapened, and its use lost the thrill it was meant to have.
Gear, on the other hand, was specifically MADE to be overused. Luffy did not create Gear to be his "super special awesome most powerful state EVER", he created Gear because he knew he would fight stronger enemies, and he needed a way to push himself to a higher level of fighting, to "shift gears", hence the name of the techniques. Therefore, it is only logical that whenever Luffy needs to fight on a higher level, he uses the techniques that were created for that purpose, namely, the Gears. There will be no "cheapening" of the dramatic effect of the usage of Gear no matter how frequently Luffy uses it, if you keep the stated purpose of Gear in mind. If you don't, it's your own fault. I personally don't have a problem with Luffy shifting himself into higher levels of fighting frequently from now on. They ARE about to get into the New World, you know.
Oh, and the shortening the lifespan? I'm pretty sure that was there as a limit, to make sure that Luffy couldn't just use Gear 2nd at all times without suffering any drawbacks (something Toriyama tried to do with Super Saiyan, but he never really developed that flaw, and ultimately, turned it into a strength by letting Goku and Gohan stay Super Saiyans for unlimited amounts of time with higher power). It's the same reason that Gear 3rd has the weakness of slowing Luffy down and making him go chibi: to prevent the over-usage of and over-reliance upon Gear. I think Oda was pretty careful about making sure that Gear doesn't run into the problems that Super Saiyan did.
-
@mdmartin101:
I didn't find a thread like this so I made one.
Really? REALLY?
you didn't find any thread about the effect of gears?
REALLY?
-
seiriosly i even used ctrl F!
-
Actually I think that Luffy will stop using Gear 2 and Gear 3 or at least not do them very often at all. Why? Well his crew is worried about him. Usopp was talking about how much stress it puts on his body to use the Gears and even the combination of them. It's not healthy of course, and I think they will bring that up with him sooner or later.
I think Luffy knows the strain it puts on him, and he might possibly need to find another way to fight because going into those gears when fighting strong enemies, and that's all they'll probably be doing in the New World, he can't keep going into those states without a major drawback on the way.
Anyway, carry on.
-
well it seems as if gear 2 will become a progression of luffy's power by the way lucci explained it. The reason why super sayian was so bad because there was supposed to be only one legendary super sayian that comes once every thousand years…. Then the cell saga you sear 3 more super sayians and levels higher than that. So if there was say a gear 2 luffy 1.5 or some BS like that then it would be more DBZ and become crappy.
-
its actually kinda hard for Oda to get out of this one. If Luffy stops using the Gears then he will start losing to more enemies, note the enemies in New World easily beat Moria. If Luffy however doesn't stop using Gear's he'll die. $10 says Luffy eats another Devil's fruit.
-
-
1. It never said that people beat Moria easily, it just said that Kaidou beat him, and he's a Yonkou.
2. My theory is that he'll find another way because he definitely can't keep using the Gears. They're too harmful to his body.
3. If he eats another Devil Fruit he'll explode. Which means no more One Piece.
-
Luffy doesn't care how long he lives, he'll use the Gears without restriction unless the crew objects. We know his mentality is to always give 120%, and if he dies before accomplishing his dream, well then "that's that".
-
Hm… then Luffy really can't do anything... Maybe Gear Four lets him gain life :p
-
Gerchak, that's what I was addressing in my first post here. His crew was worried about Luffy using the Gears because they put a tremendous strain on his body. This is why I think he'll have to change. His crew is worried, and his body won't last forever this way.
So in one way or another, he'll find a way around it.
-
But how Gear 2 going shortened Luffi life ?
for example Luffi accelerate himself 10 times faster than normal so he just lose 10 times of time he spend in Gear 2 form , and now its about of 10 hour(maximum) - it's really nothing .
And what about enemies going stronger ? He fought 4 major viilian in grand line so we can assume he will fight with another 4 - 6 major villian , and its about another 20-60 hours of lost life so is it really that mean ???even if my calculation is wrong and luffi lost one year of his life by going Gear 2 , with all his fight he must lose about 10 years , in one piece world peoples lives 140 years and i think gorosei is immortal so even ten years is not that great amount in exchange for pirate king titul .
-
This is Luffy were talking about, how many times has he had fatal blows by his enemies and gotten back up to defeat them. The point of the Gears limit is to give Luffy conflict, but I believe the strain will be overpowerd by his endless will to live, like it is with every battle he has fought. Even after he becomes Pirate King, Luffy wont stop until he says so!
-
I don't think Luffy will go Gear 2 or 3 any fight, because he is going to develop some new techniques, like everone else.
It will be (hopefully) more combinded techniques of all crewmates :D
-
But how Gear 2 going shortened Luffi life ?
for example Luffi accelerate himself 10 times faster than normal so he just lose 10 times of time he spend in Gear 2 form , and now its about of 10 hour(maximum) - it's really nothing .
And what about enemies going stronger ? He fought 4 major viilian in grand line so we can assume he will fight with another 4 - 6 major villian , and its about another 20-60 hours of lost life so is it really that mean ???even if my calculation is wrong and luffi lost one year of his life by going Gear 2 , with all his fight he must lose about 10 years , in one piece world peoples lives 140 years and i think gorosei is immortal so even ten years is not that great amount in exchange for pirate king titul .
I really don't think it's that easy. Losing hours and stuff…I don't know how that would work, but I'm talking about the strain on his body. Gear 2 puts his body at enormous risk. There is a lot of pressure that would make a normal persons heart explode. His veins and arteries are strained many times beyond normal, and his muscles would get tired very quickly. What I'm saying is that if he keeps using Gear 2, Gear 3 and them both together, his body would just stop working. I really think he'll come up with some technique to find a better way than the Gears.
This is Luffy were talking about, how many times has he had fatal blows by his enemies and gotten back up to defeat them. The point of the Gears limit is to give Luffy conflict, but I believe the strain will be overpowerd by his endless will to live, like it is with every battle he has fought. Even after he becomes Pirate King, Luffy wont stop until he says so!
Well, his will can only go so far until his body gives up. Luffy can all the will in the world to beat an opponent but if his body is too beat up and worn out to even move like it is now, then he can accomplish nothing.
Anyway, I just think with the drawback of using the Gears and the concern that his crew has for him, he'll think of something, as he always does.
-
it wasnt said he was loosing amounts of his life but how his body cant handle it. He mabye can find a way around it. Oh and even "Shifting gears" is a power up. It seems kinda cheap to me,but thats just my opinion. I think the crew should tell Luffy to stop using it but Luffy will explain how he created it to protect them. When a new villan shows he will faint cause it and chopper will tell him if he keeps doin it he could drop dead .
-
So Luffy's doing the same thing as Sanji now. Cigarettes put lots of strain on your heart and circulatory system, and they say every cigarette smoke removes 7 minutes from your lifespan. This is essentially what Luffy doing, but on a much higher level. So, you don't see Sanji ever looking like he's near death from smoking, but he is eventually gonna die an early death.
Then again, it looks like combining the gears has much more serious short term effects for some reason. I mean, Luffy didn't even sustain any real injuries from Moria right? Just the gears made him unable to move.
-
Posted by DesertSpada- (Anyway, I just think with the drawback of using the Gears and the concern that his crew has for him, he'll think of something, as he always does.)
I agree with you, I just think he won't let those drawbacks get in the way of his ambitions and will strive to keep living as long as he has his Nakama to protect!
-
If we are going to compare OP to DBZ Gears are Gear 2nd is closer to Kayoken than to Super Saiyen, while Gear 3rd is closer to the monkey form.
-
So Luffy's doing the same thing as Sanji now. Cigarettes put lots of strain on your heart and circulatory system, and they say every cigarette smoke removes 7 minutes from your lifespan. This is essentially what Luffy doing, but on a much higher level. So, you don't see Sanji ever looking like he's near death from smoking, but he is eventually gonna die an early death.
Then again, it looks like combining the gears has much more serious short term effects for some reason. I mean, Luffy didn't even sustain any real injuries from Moria right? Just the gears made him unable to move.
Yeah, the Gears put much more strain on Luffy's body than cigs do beacuse as you said, the Gears have potent short term effects and cigs are long term. Sanji could smoke all day and night but Luffy would pretty much die if he used the Gears too much in a short amount of time.
I agree with you, I just think he won't let those drawbacks get in the way of his ambitions and will strive to keep living as long as he has his Nakama to protect!
Oh yeah, he'll keep going with his ambitions I'm just sure that he'll think of a better way to fight because he knows he can't keep doing it, and his crew knows that too.
-
You know what? The drawback of Gear 2nd isn't the shortening of lifespan, since Luffy can extend his lifespan by sheer willpower, so the effects of each cancel out. Besides there's the more pressing issue of if he'll survive until old age. Plus, there's Chopper and his miracle medicine. <–claims without factual basis (except that Chopper learned medicine from Dr. Kureha, who has lived for more than 139 years and is still alive and kickin')
The true drawback of using Gear 2nd is tiring himself out and becoming paralyzed from exhaustion instantly. One could argue that Luffy does that anyway since he fainted after fighting Crocodile, but Luffy was also poisoned and bleeding profusely that time. <--meh.
-
chopper can probably find a short term delay for the effects of gear two and since gear two has enormous strain on his body and then he can recover (body made of rubber), there would be no need to worry about it. its just wether Chopper can develop some super gatorade in a pill so that luffy can recover lost blood and what not. his rubber body would do the rest
-
as a DB fan I must say: It wasnt being Super sayan that supposedly shortened Son-Goku's life span. It was th Kaioken techniqe he learned from the Kaio. in this way yes One piece is like DB for introducing somehitng like this, but in Db Son-Goku quickly forgot about Kaioken given the SS option
-
I remember him saying SS3 was too taxing on the body though. Not sure life shortening but thats what I assumed.
-
@Vash:
as a DB fan I must say: It wasnt being Super sayan that supposedly shortened Son-Goku's life span. It was th Kaioken techniqe he learned from the Kaio. in this way yes One piece is like DB for introducing somehitng like this, but in Db Son-Goku quickly forgot about Kaioken given the SS option
I thought it was assumed that he keept useing the kaioken even in SS form.
I remember reading somewhere in some faqs that although he didn't keep visibly activateing it he still keept doing it.(it was safer to use the stronger you were right? wasn't the hazard something along the line of the spine snapping rather then reduced life span? or is that just a faulty translation?)
-
@vsoy:
chopper can probably find a short term delay for the effects of gear two and since gear two has enormous strain on his body and then he can recover (body made of rubber), there would be no need to worry about it. its just wether Chopper can develop some super gatorade in a pill so that luffy can recover lost blood and what not. his rubber body would do the rest
He'll wear himself out. Sure, his body is made of rubber, but rubber has a limit too. Keep abusing it and it will break just like everyone else. This kind of reminds me of when Rurouni Kenshin fought that Cone head guy….Shinkaku or something. Anway, he was fast and kept moving, thinking that he was just as fast as Kenshin. However, in the end he ended up twisting his leg almost 360 degrees because he was causing so much strain on it thinking he was moving as fast as Kenshin when Kenshin was actually moving faster and faster.
Now, Luffy is doing that many times the strain of his body and eventually, he'll break. The Gears were ingenious and served their purpose, however what has just happened has shown us that the Gears are very, very risky. They not only tax his body enormously, but they also leave him in a state of complete and utter helplessness when the effects are over.
-
I thought it was assumed that he keept useing the kaioken even in SS form.
I remember reading somewhere in some faqs that although he didn't keep visibly activateing it he still keept doing it.i.e. OH SHIT! WE GOTTA GET RID OF THIS THING
-
I have no idea what you meant by that skarlath but it might jsut have been some funky translation.
-
As one of the biggest Dragon Ball nerds around, I can tell you that Goku never canonically used Kaiouken after his 20x Kamehameha against Freeza. In the anime filler, he once used an attack called "Super Kaiouken", but it was nonsense.
And the longest Goku ever used a form of Kaiouken continiously was KaioukenX3 against Vegeta. At most 10-15 seconds.
-
I have no idea what you meant by that skarlath but it might jsut have been some funky translation.
No. I only speak english.
I mean they had an attack that doubled, tripled, whatever the hell he wanted his power level.
This is clearly a huge advantage. And he had to be equal(ish) to those around him and no one would think that Goku was actually 20x weaker than Vegeta or Gohan without the Kaioken attack.
So my point was they (the writers) got rid of it. Through the magic of sticking their fingers in their ears and yelling at the top of their lungs
-
If we are going to compare OP to DBZ Gears are Gear 2nd is closer to Kayoken than to Super Saiyen, while Gear 3rd is closer to the monkey form.
That… is genius. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Oda got the idea for Gear 2nd from the Kaio Ken. He did say Dragon Ball was his biggest inspiration, and Toriyama certainly didn't do enough with the Kaio Ken. Might as well modify an existing good idea.
Oh, and skarlath? Goku can't make his power level whatever he wants, the Kaoi Ken can only multiply your power level by 20. And to all you people saying that Luffy needs to get rid of Gear because they have drawbacks, why do you think that the drawbacks are a bad thing. It makes the usage of Gear MEAN something, instead of it being a throwaway technique. It set's a needed limit, or else whole fights will be done in Gear 2nd, instead of just 2 minute bursts. (Even against Lucci, Luffy wasn't using Gear 2nd for more then about 2 minutes at a time, except at the end when he made the decision to just let his life drain to end the fight). Which is why the limited Kaio Ken is a better comparison to Gear 2nd then the drawback-less, over-used Super Saiyan. To avoid over-using Gear that way, a limit must be introduced to make the technique meaningful, and I don't think that's a bad thing. The drawbacks to Gear 2nd and Gear 3rd are here to stay.
-
That… is genius. I actually wouldn't be surprised if Oda got the idea for Gear 2nd from the Kaio Ken. He did say Dragon Ball was his biggest inspiration, and Toriyama certainly didn't do enough with the Kaio Ken. Might as well modify an existing good idea.
Oh, and skarlath? Goku can't make his power level whatever he wants, the Kaoi Ken can only multiply your power level by 20. And to all you people saying that Luffy needs to get rid of Gear because they have drawbacks, why do you think that the drawbacks are a bad thing. It makes the usage of Gear MEAN something, instead of it being a throwaway technique. It set's a needed limit, or else whole fights will be done in Gear 2nd, instead of just 2 minute bursts. (Even against Lucci, Luffy wasn't using Gear 2nd for more then about 2 minutes at a time, except at the end when he made the decision to just let his life drain to end the fight). Which is why the limited Kaio Ken is a better comparison to Gear 2nd then the drawback-less, over-used Super Saiyan. To avoid over-using Gear that way, a limit must be introduced to make the technique meaningful, and I don't think that's a bad thing. The drawbacks to Gear 2nd and Gear 3rd are here to stay.
but Kaio Ken didn't have a drawback… not that I could see
and that is why Kaio Ken WAS gotten rid of. That's what I was saying. It was too powerful. I'm not comparing Gear 2 to Kaio Ken, because instead of Oda just throwing it (and all the other SH upgrades from EL) out the window, I have a feeling that this will be a HUGE plot point
Like his crew feeling bad that Luffy has gone to such huge length to protect them that they feel they will have to grow stronger
I mean like Usopp Nami and Chopper
Zoro and Sanji already feel like that...
-
Goku said Kaio Ken could tear his body apart if overused, much like Gear 2nd. However, Toriyama didn't expound on that, or on Kaio Ken in general. But yes, I suppose we agree then, Gear will become a major plot point. And I agree that it will inspire the other Straw Hat's to get stronger (thus accomplishing it's goal, which is to protect the crew, which can be done just as well by making them fight for themselves as it can be by fighting for them.), I still say that the drawbacks are crucial and will stay permanently.
-
And I agree that it will inspire the other Straw Hat's to get stronger (thus accomplishing it's goal, which is to protect the crew, which can be done just as well by making them fight for themselves as it can be by fighting for them.)
Intriguing… very intriguing
of course, you know, we're probably wrong...
-
Was this a One Piece thread or DB one?Whatever, I don't think Luffy is gonna stop using his Gears.He needed them so that's why he created them.Plus now they're going at the NW and there, there will be a bigger need for their use.The only logical reason I see that may make Luffy stop using Gears is one even bigger power-up, like eating Chopper's Rumble Ball or w/e.
If such thing happens people will start arguing again, so I believe we are fine with the current Gears. -
luffy cant explode even if he eats another devil fruit, he's made of rubber!
-
Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Gear 3rd shorten his lifespan as well? I'm still watching through the Luffy vs Lucci fight, so I don't think it's been explicitly stated, but I do know it makes him chibi for a bit.
In the case that I'm right (if not, disregard this post), could he just create different gears with different drawbacks? (i.e. Gear 4 that maybe… makes him all stretchy, like when you take the air out of a balloon?)
-
could he just create different gears with different drawbacks? (i.e. Gear 4 that maybe… makes him all stretchy, like when you take the air out of a balloon?)
COOL!!!MR Fantastic….....