Chapter 475 "The Pirates in the Forest" Discussion

FireFistAce 0

Somebody called the pirates in the forest a Deus Ex Machina moment. I disagree with this assertion wholeheartedley. They have spent a long time on that island hiding in the forest. They probably observed Moria long enough in that forest to learn much about him. And of course they would want their shadows back, so of course they would help Luffy do what they weren't strong enough to do.

It's still DEM, like it or not. Oz becomes rubber suddenly, and seems unbeatable, and then all of a sudden we meet pirates under the "Real Lola" who have the secret of beating him? The fact that they have the secret may not be a DEM, but the fact that they appear just when needed is.

TontTonyChopper

Ninja Luffy next week. He blends in the shadows.

Tokoro Ataru

It is suspicious that these new pirates would suddenly just appear on the island. While great to know that there is a basis for both Lola (who knows what she looks like) and the Risky Brothers, having them on Thriller Bark and knowing Moria's secret is a slight cop-out considering the massive battle they've been through so far. (but hopefully next week will make it work)

CLERICSHADOW

I'm loving these chapters..but Luffy isn't getting enough screen time…only one page each chapter...MORE SCREEN TIME LUFFY!!!

I use to love oz...now I just want the basterd to die!!!

And I still don't believe Brooke will join...I believe nobody is joining!

Proud member of B.I.N.J.(Brook Is Not Joining)

King-Of-Fools

@Fire Fist:

It's still DEM, like it or not. Oz becomes rubber suddenly, and seems unbeatable, and then all of a sudden we meet pirates under the "Real Lola" who have the secret of beating him? The fact that they have the secret may not be a DEM, but the fact that they appear just when needed is.

As much as I'd hate to just lable any plot Deus Ex Machina and say Oda is too good of a writer for that I'd have to agree. Luffy bumping in to the Real Risky Bro's and them just happening to have the secret to winning seems a little out of place let alone that Oda did it in a single page.

King Kobra

Well, maybe their miraclous power is….

UMBRELLAS....

Yeah, Umbrellas, so expect something like Strawhat Luffy turning into Umbrella Hat Luffy to beat down Moria in the next chapters...

But seriously, besides Salt or....even more ridiculous...a Sea-stone weapon that Luffy could wield like Smoker, there's like no other thing that comes to my mind..

LuffyLuffyNoMi

@Fire Fist:

It's still DEM, like it or not. Oz becomes rubber suddenly, and seems unbeatable, and then all of a sudden we meet pirates under the "Real Lola" who have the secret of beating him? The fact that they have the secret may not be a DEM, but the fact that they appear just when needed is.

Hallo?! They're trying to explain Moria's weakness to Luffy… Besides the fact he's stubborn, dull and doesn't listen to what s.o. tells him: He's someone that finds out weaknesses all by himself and who doesn't want to know about shortcuts or "cheating"...

And even if this is in fact a DEM - Oda's got still plenty of ways to make it look a most useless fact just for the laughs... Or - again just for the laughs - a really awkward weakness.

Mugiwara No Hermy

@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:

Well, maybe their miraclous power is….

UMBRELLAS....

Yeah, Umbrellas, so expect something like Strawhat Luffy turning into Umbrella Hat Luffy to beat down Moria in the next chapters...

Haha, that sounds awesome.

It's gotta be Umbrella Luffy. It probably won't, but it would be fun if it was.

Onigumo

The reason why I don't call this a DEM is because the DIDN'T come out of nowhere. It wasn't just on old man that they met in the forest, there where many others cheering him on in hiding. They may have finally decided to tell him because they are getting hope now.
Don't jump to conclusions until we learn what his great weakness is. If it is something that was hinted at eariler, then it technically isn't DEM because it was foreshadowed. (I'm guessing it's darkness, because you don't throw a shadow in the dark, so his power to use at take shadows can't be used in the dark.)

Seal of Legends

@Onigumo:

The reason why I don't call this a DEM is because the DIDN'T come out of nowhere. It wasn't just on old man that they met in the forest, there where many others cheering him on in hiding. They may have finally decided to tell him because they are getting hope now.
Don't jump to conclusions until we learn what his great weakness is. If it is something that was hinted at eariler, then it technically isn't DEM because it was foreshadowed. (I'm guessing it's darkness, because you don't throw a shadow in the dark, so his power to use at take shadows can't be used in the dark.)

If that were true, I'd be like "Go fetch Marshall D. Teach" XD

I'm not sure if it's darkness, though =/

King-Of-Fools

The reason why I don't call this a DEM is because the DIDN'T come out of nowhere. It wasn't just on old man that they met in the forest, there where many others cheering him on in hiding. They may have finally decided to tell him because they are getting hope now.

The Fact that they knew before the fight doesnt change the fact that its DEM. All Deffiniton of DEM states is that it is "a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty".

No one could of reasonably guessed that their where shadowless dudes in the forest who had the answer all this time. So no matter how you look at it was sudden and it probably resolve the main problem (which makes the the core of DEM).

Don't jump to conclusions until we learn what his great weakness is. If it is something that was hinted at eariler, then it technically isn't DEM because it was foreshadowed.

Just because it was forshadowed doesnt change the sudden introduction of the said solution. (whihc again is what DEM is)

I know DEM seems to show a lack of writing skill in the eyes of most readers. But really I think oda just wanted to tie in the plot of next chapter before the end of this one. Im sure he'll make it work anyhow.

Aethos

Damn just think how devastating Oz would be if he could use the gears…

skarlath

@King-Of-Fools:

Just because it was forshadowed doesnt change the sudden introduction of the said solution. (whihc again is what DEM is)

ummm…. yes it does

yes it does

it does indeed

kljs

even if you tell Luffy the solution, he won't even understand it. Had it been told to the other mugiwaras, they would have understand it in a split second. He wil probably figure it out himself, or he notices it, when someone try to do it….. or something like that....

onemoment

@Fire Fist:

It's still DEM, like it or not. Oz becomes rubber suddenly, and seems unbeatable, and then all of a sudden we meet pirates under the "Real Lola" who have the secret of beating him? The fact that they have the secret may not be a DEM, but the fact that they appear just when needed is.

…are you complaining? Cause it's not like this is bad writing or anything. That and, despite the fact that this does seem to definre DEM...

"a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty".

There's a flaw in your logic. Odz becoming a rubber giant and Luffy learning a secret don't involve each other. In fact, this isn't appearing right when Luffy needs it…did we know he'd need it? Moria's powers don't even seem to need a weakness, yet here these guys are.

Luffy's not going to use this secret to fight Odz's rubber powers, he's going to use it to fight Moria. Odds are Odz will be beaten by the SH crew before then.

Later edit: Actually, it's not DEM because this secret doesn't seem to be the solution to an insoluble difficulty. Moria is a very "soluble" problem, Luffy just needs to catch him.

ChesCa

Pardon my ignorance, but does anyone know Lola's zombie number. I'm not sure if I ever saw one, but I just probably wasn't paying attention….
......Unless she's some sort of stiched up animal freak like Absalom, but I highly doubt it.

killmer

@Knight:

Brooke grew up listening to Mista T. He has learned well.

the milk joke was priceless… that's the reason brook needs to join the crew like now! best comic relief i've ever seen

as far as all this foreshadowing goes, i'm kinda tinking they will tell him something the rest of the crew already knows. luffy will have some odd day dream about it that will totally stump him.

onemoment

Speaking of milk, if Brooke has truely healed then I'd like to see his full abilities soon. In particular I was disappointed to see Robin pulling Brooke away from another one of Odz's attacks! As a speed fighter who can run on water, I'd expect him to need the least help in that area!

Oh well, probably not a big deal…

Capt Haggis

Well he's not healed. Frankly I doubt he got more then a few bursts of speed. in him at the moment.

My personal guess is he's saving his energy so he can purify Odz at the perfect moment.

Aethos

I've been wondering for a long time what Brooke's fighting style will be. It has to be more than just swordsmanship though since Zoro is already the token swordsman. I'm sure we'll see Brooke kick some ass pretty soon here.

As for Luffy. Knowing Luffy he probably wouldn't even get the solution even if it was told to him. Luffy is more the type of guy to learn from experience.

kljs

that's why you won't have to worry about any Deus Ex Machina…. since Luffy will be clueless anyway......

Niar

nice chapter at least some fighting not only plot revelation.
Moria supposed to be a giant ? right?
Rather small for a giant… Maybe he can control his size with the shadow power? Make shadow bigger and your own body gets also big.
Please don't tear me apart for this thought.

Lobolover

Well,we THOUGHT he was a giant,but he just seems to be one of them "gigantism"l stricken folks.

Fairly decent chapter,dut the hooded guy with the cross would look SO much better then any of the two real Risky Bros.-Separately-bearable,but together,their design is just plain-near awfull.

Niar

If that's the case, don't mind me.

Tanuki

Awesome chapter full of awesome combinations, and a little development into Moria's abilities.

Poor Franky though…

Tokoro Ataru

I do wonder: why does everyone want to see Gears on Odz? The guy is a permenant Gear 3 already.

Lobolover

Hmm-just IMAGINE to what size he could grow if he COULD use gear 3th,though.

….......faints.

kljs

assuming his body can take gear 3….. or even gear 2.......

Seal of Legends

@kljs:

assuming his body can take gear 3….. or even gear 2.......

If his body really is rubber now, I don't see why he couldn't.

Get the tanks ready.

Silver R. Bolt

@onemoment:

I just noticed that Brooke gets rescued by an Odz attack by Robin. While I'd chalk that up to his injuries, I'd really like to see him start dodging on his own. It feels like, based on what we've seen from him, that he should be able to dodge better then anyone.

I'm sure the bag of Salt is weighing him down. He can be fast when its just him, but the bag of salt has to be heavey, speacially if it's enough to purify Oz.


* Nice to see Brook fiting in. Milk, lol.

* Nami wearing Perona's clothes, I can Toei making a filler scene out of this.(Finding Perona's room, and possible looking for something she'd would wear)

* I like the fact that Franky seems to be workinbg around his whole 3 Cola limit. From giant nun-chucks to carrying ammo with him.

* I'm now curious if Chopper will use a Rumble Ball this arc. Either he's too scared to use it from previous events, or just hasn't thought of it.

King Kobra

@Silver:

I like the fact that Franky seems to be workinbg around his whole 3 Cola limit. From giant nun-chucks to carrying ammo with him.

I'm now curious if Chopper will use a Rumble Ball this arc. Either he's too scared to use it from previous events, or just hasn't thought of it.

Yeah, both of them are doing perfect without the need of Cola or Rumble Balls. Besides Luffy, I think that both Chopper and Franky could become my second and third favorite characters in fighting terms if they keep using their medical/building knowledge in future battles.

Anyways, about Franky's Cola…

Is Coup De Vent and Coup De Poo the only atacks that rely on it? He just used the fire breath thing, so I dunno if he actually uses Cola to power that one.

skarlath

Brain point would sure come in handy here…
Perhaps Chopper could find some sort of strategy that would involve all members of the crew? Especially Brook

captain sogeking

Moria was great this chapter because no matter what the strawhats tried he just sat on his fat ass and grinned like a village idiot

bravo moria bravo

Gorlom

@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:

Yeah, both of them are doing perfect without the need of Cola or Rumble Balls. Besides Luffy, I think that both Chopper and Franky could become my second and third favorite characters in fighting terms if they keep using their medical/building knowledge in future battles.

Anyways, about Franky's Cola…

Is Coup De Vent and Coup De Poo the only atacks that rely on it? He just used the fire breath thing, so I dunno if he actually uses Cola to power that one.

Everything Franky does relies on cola. Even his punches powered up when he got the cola dureing EL. coup de vent and the other (isnt it boo rather then poo?) just uses a large portion of the cola.

Kingoffans

For all those bitching about how Nami was useless in this arc, BOOYAH!!! IN YOUR FACES!!! If it weren't for Nami, Franky would have been giant road kill a la Hogback. So there you go, once again she helps the crew. Onto other things, the chapter was pretty awesome but I wonder what this secret power is? Personally I'm not liking the sound of it because I wanted Luffy to beat him fair and square mano a mano since he is a Shickibukai. This also might mess up with my hopes of Gear Second Luffy obliterating everything on Thriller Bark in a fit of rage and grief. Meh, I'm sure Oda-sensei will make something just as good or probably better^^

Ichnob

@Silver:

I like the fact that Franky seems to be workinbg around his whole 3 Cola limit. From giant nun-chucks to carrying ammo with him.

Let's also remember that Franky didn't exactly have time to prepare himself since he was kidnapped by CP9.

killmer

@Seal:

If his body really is rubber now, I don't see why he couldn't.

Get the tanks ready.

im pretty sure it was just some little modification moria made to the OZ corpse to use luffy's shadow to its fullest. i'm pretty sure DF powers wouldn't transfer through a shadow, but i may be wrong.

brooke seems to be a fencer. the samurai that was using brooke's shadow seemed to be shadowing brooke's techniques. the samarui was using them better than brooke was. zoro and sanji dont seem to be hurt by not having their shadows, so brooke may just be that weak.

Kaizoku Ou 0

I don't think Oz is rubber. Moria must have some crazy tricks up his sleeve. The thunderbolt tempo did hurt him, after all.

Kefky

Pretty cool chapter… Usopp launching Franky was my favorite bit. Can't wait to see what Moira actually for Odz to stretch.

I don't get why you guys want Odz to be even stronger, though... He's pretty immortal already. As long as Oda makes whatever Luffy's technique will be interesting, I'll be satisfied with this fight.

Gorlom

the secret is to: "literally kick Moria in the butt". you know how angry moria got after Luffy kicked the floor under him? and then started running away? its because he suspected Luffy was on to him.
That is also why he is sitting on his fat ass all the time. he's protecting it. And what safer place for Morias ass then inside Oggy. how would you manage to get your foot up inside there to kick Morias behind?

When kicked in the butt Moria looses all his power just like when someone pulls the tail of young Goku in dragonball.

=P

Cap'n Carter

Wow, this chapter was pretty crazy. I loved Sanji/Zoro's combo and Franky's move especially.

I love how those ugly assholes were the source of the Risky Brothers' shadows.

tony-kun

I like how this shuts up all the "OZ'S DEEPER PURPOSE IS TO SHOW HOW STRONG LUFFY IS WITHOUT THE RUBBER" I've been hearing on other boards.

but yea, pretty awesome chapter.

Jenga Cannon made it.

boiga

@Seal:

If his body really is rubber now, I don't see why he couldn't.

Get the tanks ready.

Gear two and gear three rely on a lot more than just a rubber body. In gear two, luffy hydraulically increases the blood pressure in his vessels to maximize aerobic respiration. This greatly increases his body temperature and puts major strains on Luffy's cardiac system. We don't know that Odz' body could put up with that kind of strain even if it were rubber without burning up or overstraining his body.

Gear three is another issue because luffy is inflating his BONES like a pneumatic tire, increasing their hardness and size. This requires a lot of skill manipulating the elasticity of the rubber in each individual bone to manage the air pressure and avoid a rupture. Odz' body is still new to Luffy's powers and trying gear three could quite easily end in a big POP and lots of Odz' bits scattered around the island. (Then again, I've kinda been hoping for that result since Odz was introduced:)

Okay, so Odz kick at the end of the chapter shows that he can now stretch his entire body. Moria's presence is somehow allowing Luffy's shadow to tap into the devil fruit powers and transfer them into a new body. How this is going to be explained is beyond me, but I'm really hoping that this will lead to a new revelation on the theory behind devil fruit abilities.

Lobolover

or it could be that a DF users shadows simply can use its powers when it realy gets "used" to a new body (after the zombie becomes obedient,etc….....)

_Bastard_

Maybe Moria is using his own shadow as an extension of Oz to make it appear he is stretching when he really is not.

captainjustin

i don't think nami took perona's clothes… that's just kinda weird. it's just another one of her awesome outfits... with more of a "thriller" theme.

oz didn't seem very affected by the thunder tempo... was that a result of being rubberized or the same as the super firebird thing (a vestige of being alive)? also, shouldn't moria have been shocked as well? are we to assume kuma is sitting in Oz too, just watching the battle?

Seal of Legends

Well, Boiga, maybe if Odz is stupid enough to try one of the gears, then he will explode? XD I'm kinda hoping for it too. I'm pretty sick of Odz.

boiga

@Lobolover:

or it could be that a DF users shadows simply can use its powers when it realy gets "used" to a new body (after the zombie becomes obedient,etc….....)

I suppose it's possible, considering that the only fruit user to have a zombie was brook, and I couldn't really imagine Brook's fruit helping ryuma's spirit to wander around. But then again, that wouldn't follow with Moria's comment about not being just a spectator: [hide]Moria: Kishishishi!! Be grateful that I've even decided to SHOW UP for this one!!
…And be careful, folks...!!
I'm not just RIDING in this guy...!
Prepare to meet your worst nightmare![/hide] So, I think we can assume that Moria is actively causing this new ability of Odz, otherwise he really would just be sitting there. @_Bastard_:

Maybe Moria is using his own shadow as an extension of Oz to make it appear he is stretching when he really is not.

But the effect on Odz' leg at the end of the chapter realllly looks like a gomu attack. I can't imagine shadow abilities manipulating biological functions that throughly without tapping into luffy's power somehow.

Edit@ Seal:I really really hope so too.@captainjustin:

oz didn't seem very affected by the thunder tempo… was that a result of being rubberized or the same as the super firebird thing (a vestige of being alive)?

Well, the lightening attack brought Odz to his knees according to stephen's trans, so it had a stronger effect than it would have on luffy. That made me wonder if Moria can only rubberize a part of Odz at a time. Just the arm for the pistol, just the leg for the gomu gomu axe, etc.

ligeia

@Gorlom:

havent they called Zoro first mate? i could have sworn they did sometime in the past… =S

hmm maybe im just mixing it up with the listing of crewmembers in the "next nakama" thread..

I know this is totally unrelated, but does anyone remember when this may have been? I think I kind of remember something like that, but my memory is muddled.

Back to the chapter:

I love how Nami's plot line in this arc also coincidentally forces her to change outfits as much as possible. It's oddly appropriate since most of the developments around her until recently mostly center around her laying around unconscious and looking pretty.

And, I don't know how it would have to pan out for this to happen, but a part of me kind of hopes they don't manage to recover Luffy's shadow from Odz, if only because I have an image in my head of him laying a final attack on Moria or something as the sun rises and his body framed in flickering fire.

Sogeking Sniper

I noticed Robin called Nami by her name. It's about time.