Osamu Tezuka's Phoenix

[firecrouch]

I don't know how many "Phoenix" fans there are here on Arlong Park, but regardless it's something you should check out at least before you die. But for those of us already in love with it, I'll start off the topic.

First, Media Blasters is gonna be releasing the anime soon, who's gonna pick it up? Second, it was assumed that when "Phoenix" ended (which it unfortunately didn't), it would end in the present. Do you think it would have eventually ended with a special message, an ultimate conclusion culminating in everything the "Phoenix" mythos have contained? Or do you think have ended like any of the other stories in the series, just in the present?

[Captain Kuro]

I'm a big Phoenix fan (I currently have Gao in my signature).

When I have more time, I plan on typing out my thoughts on each volume.

My favorite volumes are 2 and 4, although when I think about it, it's hard to choose really.

@firecrouch:

Second, it was assumed that when "Phoenix" ended (which it unfortunately didn't), it would end in the present. Do you think it would have eventually ended with a special message, an ultimate conclusion culminating in everything the "Phoenix" mythos have contained? Or do you think have ended like any of the other stories in the series, just in the present?

I think it would have tied everything together in some way.

I always thought we would eventually get to see the scene from volume 2 (Future) that showed one of Saruta's descendants (the one who defied the government).

[firecrouch]

Now that the series is finished its publication in the States, I'd love to see the "prototype" for it Tezuka did in the '50s.

It's funny, with everything I know Tezuka did there isn't much variation between one work following the next, probably he did so much in such a short amount of time, and because of that his stylistic changes are seen gradually over the case of his portfolio of manga. Not the case with "Phoenix", it started in the '50s as a sort-of kids' manga ans re-emerged a decade later for an older audience.

[Captain Kuro]

@firecrouch:

Now that the series is finished its publication in the States, I'd love to see the "prototype" for it Tezuka did in the '50s.

Yeah, I'm hoping for that as well. Those early Phoenix stories were released in a volume in one of the Japanese releases of the set. So maybe Viz will do that too.

[firecrouch]

@Captain:

Yeah, I'm hoping for that as well. Those early Phoenix stories were released in a volume in one of the Japanese releases of the set. So maybe Viz will do that too.

They're planning to (or already have) reprint the series, so here's hoping.

You know what's also great about being a "Phoenix" fan? Becoming friends with other anime fans the moment it comes up. I met someone in line for a movie who said their anime fan friend was coming by when he saw me reading a manga. His friend saw me reading "Phoenix" and said, "Wow, a younger guy who's into Tezuka", and he asked for my number pretty quickly. Then one time I was sitting down with a TokyoPop editor and two of his artists (that's for another discussion, you can ask if you want), and when the editor left one of them started talking to me (the creator of "Dogby Walks Alone").

"So, what are you into"? he says. When I said Osamu Tezuka and "Phoenix" he looked kind of surprised, probably because such a young person was into that stuff .

[Malintex_Terek]

I'm more interested in Saya no Uta myself. I don't really like Tezuka outside of Black Jack and Metropolis.

[Captain Kuro]

@Malintex_Terek:

I'm more interested in Saya no Uta myself. I don't really like Tezuka outside of Black Jack and Metropolis.

Just curious, but how many of Tezuka's works have you actually read?

The Metropolis manga is okay, but because it is one of Tezuka's earlier works, it's not really comparable to his later stuff. I always figured only people interested in seeing how Tezuka's style changed would like it.

I liked the recent Metropolis animated movie a lot though, although it was changed quite a bit from Tezuka's manga.

[firecrouch]

"Metropolis" was good, a good little story that's great if you want to see how modern sci-fi manga got it's start. I never really got into "Black Jack", but I did watch some of the recent anime and I liked it.

What is "Saya no Uta"? Is that "Apollo's Song"?

[Captain Kuro]

Saya no Uta isn't even a Tezuka manga and it's quite recent from what I gather. I assume Terek just brought it up because it apparently borrows from Phoenix volume 5.

[Malintex_Terek]

Tried reading Adolf, watched some of Black Jack and Metropolis but didn't finish them. Also watched some of Astro Boy's movie, it was well dubbed.

…

Saya no Uta is a visual novel by Nitro+, it uses some of the story from Phoenix though it sounds even more exciting.

[firecrouch]

There was an "Astro Boy" movie?!

[Malintex_Terek]

Yep. "Strongest Robot in the World". Involved this horned monstrosity killing off the toughest robots around and Astro Boy was #2.

[Captain Kuro]

@Malintex_Terek:

Tried reading Adolf, watched some of Black Jack and Metropolis but didn't finish them. Also watched some of Astro Boy's movie, it was well dubbed.

You mean the Metropolis animated movie? Because that's the only thing of Metropolis that was ever animated. Why didn't you finish it?

Yep. "Strongest Robot in the World". Involved this horned monstrosity killing off the toughest robots around and Astro Boy was #2.

Well, that was actually probably several episodes of the 1980s series put together I think.

[Malintex_Terek]

It was on [adult swim] and I got too sleepy. I was REALLY interested in it, though - the violence was what dragged me in, but the setting was like, "wow".

I'll have to get back to it on a later date, maybe after I get through Princess Tutu but right now I'm so exhausted with science fiction, I'll probably head back to OP again.

[firecrouch]

The "Metropolis" movie, while good in its own right, isn't necessarily a faithful adaptation of the manga, best to chech that out too.

Wow, this has quickly turned into just another discussion of Tezuka in general. Who knew?.

[Malintex_Terek]

Faithful in what sense? I got through BONES' adaption of The Skullman and it wasn't faithful to the manga at all, but man it had a lot of Ishinomori's style. Moreso than SM series II anyway.

[firecrouch]

@Malintex_Terek:

Faithful in what sense? I got through BONES' adaption of The Skullman and it wasn't faithful to the manga at all, but man it had a lot of Ishinomori's style. Moreso than SM series II anyway.

It was faithful in its basic story and character elements, but the storyline itself was not the same. Still had some of that Tezuka style, but not completely. It's been a while so it's hard for me to describe.

[Captain Kuro]

@Malintex_Terek:

Faithful in what sense? I got through BONES' adaption of The Skullman and it wasn't faithful to the manga at all, but man it had a lot of Ishinomori's style. Moreso than SM series II anyway.

If you mean the 1998 Skull Man manga series, what do you mean when you say it doesn't have Ishinomori's style? It was based on notes by Ishinomori and featured a ton of his characters from other series. It was pretty much a huge tribute to the guy.

As for Metropolis, well the whole thing is quite different. You have to remember that the original Metropolis manga was done early in Tezuka's career, so it's kind of crude compared to his later works. The anime Metropolis is more polished I guess. Different story and some of the characters are different (although the characters they put in are Tezuka characters, just not Tezuka characters from the Metropolis manga).

I've read that the Metropolis anime is actually closer to Fritz Lang's live action Metropolis, although I don't know myself since I've never seen the live action one. (However, a movie poster of the live action film is what supposdely inspired Tezuka to make the manga, although he had never seen the movie).

[firecrouch]

"Metropolis" was also originally done when he was 15 or 16. The original story he did mostly represents a typical comic strip compared to the cinematic style he pioneered.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Captain:

If you mean the 1998 Skull Man manga series, what do you mean when you say it doesn't have Ishinomori's style? It was based on notes by Ishinomori and featured a ton of his characters from other series. It was pretty much a huge tribute to the guy.

It's too surreal. I haven't read any of it, but from what I read about it during my watch of The Skullman, it's about a journey into the underworld to kill an undead monster that happened to kill Kagura Tasuo's parents somehow. All of Ishinomori's works have a human condition parallel, even with godless evils like Black Ghost or Kamen Rider's terrorist organization. But, the newer SM series, aside from using the same characters and plot-lines, seems like a typical adventure story, with the only characterization as SM being an anti-hero portrayal with a thirst for revenge.

That's one of the reasons I liked the new SM anime, it had a strong taste for characterizations, even if the action was lacking. I'd call it one of the best anime of the year if not for the fail ending.

/off-topic.

[Captain Kuro]

@Malintex_Terek:

It's too surreal. I haven't read any of it

Well…you should have stopped there then. Although I don't get what you mean about it being "too surreal" when compared to Ishinomori's original Skull Man manga.

Back to the Phoenix.

Besides 2 (Future) and 4 (Karma), a few of my other favorites are volume 1 (Dawn) and 5 (Resurrection). I also enjoyed the two parts of Sun.

[Malintex_Terek]

@Captain:

Well…you should have stopped there then.

Oh, I've tried to get my hands on it, but I can't find volumes or scans anywere - SM wasn't more than a one shot originally, not many went for it. Both series are short, here's hoping someone who liked the anime picks it up.

@Captain:

Although I don't get what you mean about it being "too surreal" when compared to Ishinomori's original Skull Man manga.

Alright, the original manga had Skullman, a cyborg, assisted by a mutated shapeshifter murdering people and trying to uncover a conspiracy involving himself.

Series II is about Skullman dying, going to the underworld, the fighting hordes of monsters to get the opportunity to kill a supernatural foe.

The original story is science fiction, the latter virtually fantasy.

[Captain Kuro]

@Malintex_Terek:

Oh, I've tried to get my hands on it, but I can't find volumes or scans anywere - SM wasn't more than a one shot originally, not many went for it. Both series are short, here's hoping someone who liked the anime picks it up.

I've got the raw for the original Skull Man on my computer, and I have all of Tokyopop's releases of the '98 series (actual books though, not scans - though I do have the raw scans too).

I don't really feel like typing up a long post, but the '98 series still seems pretty Ishinomori-ish to me. It still takes place mostly in a city/real world setting by the way.

However, I've only read the Ishinomori stuff released in english though - like Cyborg 009 (although I have tons of Ishinomori raws too).

EDIT:
Here's a clip from the animated movie based on Phoenix volumes 4 (Karma/Ho-oh):

[Malintex_Terek]

The Phoenix's voice actress sounds simmilar to Karlala from Ideon. Are they the same person?

[Captain Kuro]

@Malintex_Terek:

The Phoenix's voice actress sounds simmilar to Karlala from Ideon. Are they the same person?

It's this person I think:
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0407433/

I don't see any character from Ideon on the list though.

Although the actress for that character from Ideon actually is in one of the Phoenix movies. She's a character in the movie for Space (from volume 3).

[Captain Kuro]

I think it's official that there will be a volume 12 containing Tezuka's older Phoenix stories.

And where's Terek? I was going to type some more things about the Skull Man.

[Bellamy]

Haven't seen it yet, but I've been thinking of it lately… I want to check out more of Tezuka's stuff (only really seen Astro Boy and the Metropolis movie) and Phoenix seems like a good place to start.

[Retsudo]

Okay, I looked around for any past threads discussing Phoenix and saw this one. I saw that it was several years old, but I figured it might have been poor to make another topic on a already covered subject so I posted here.

Anyway, I've read exactly 5 parts of the work out of the whole. They were Future, Yamato, Universe, Karma, Ressurrection.

Karma in particular was a good read and one I would recommend to someone getting into the series.

[Mutated_Monkey]

Is it worth buying the anime boxset of this?

[Kareem Said]

I have a few questions that I'd really like answers for.
1: Are there scanlation sites anywhere on the internet for Tezuka's Phoenix? I'd really like to find one.
2: Are the English volume translations any good? I've heard that they're dumbing downs of the original message Tezuka gave so that's not good because they might be the only hope I have for reading Phoenix.

I'd really like answers to these questions because I know that people on this site have read Phoenix and I really don't want to miss out. Thank you for your time.

[Pochipochi]

http://kickthekitty.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/random-scans-phoenix-v2/

[GEPPETTOSMONSTER]

@Holy:

http://kickthekitty.wordpress.com/2010/11/25/random-scans-phoenix-v2/

That Link is dead.

I bought the complete collection from rightstuf.com an so far I got to say that I like the story with the prince cursed with a wolfs head.

[Pochipochi]

Oh, sorry, I had that link on hand still and didn't realize it was gone.

[GEPPETTOSMONSTER]

@Holy:

Oh, sorry, I had that link on hand still and didn't realize it was gone.

It's all good.

I clicked on it out of habit

[shashank41]

they shifted here >http://randomscans.wordpress.com/kickthekitty/

[Del]

I've found this with a quick google search, http://www.filecrop.com/phoenix-Osamu-Tezuka.html
Hope it isn't against the rules.

[Davy Jones]

Phoenix was one of my first manga! (After DBZ) I read the whole thing in 5th grade at the local public library, and I loved it! God I wish I was immortal!

[SSJLuffy]

Sorry to bump this thread, but is there anywhere I can read this online? Its way to expensive for me to buy right now.

[Pookiez]

Don't think there are any scanlations of this, thus you won't find it online.

[Dumhuvud]

I would like to read more of Tezuka's stuff. At the moment the only one I've read is Adolf, which I liked. Oh, and two Astro Boy remakes (the 2003 three-volume manga and Urasawa's Pluto), but I'm not sure if that counts.

[shashank41]

@SSJLuffy:

Sorry to bump this thread, but is there anywhere I can read this online? Its way to expensive for me to buy right now.

you can download volumes 2 to 5 from here. Only english scans available online I think.

[Captain Kuro]

I'm posting in this thread (four years later) to say this is still my favorite manga.