Grand Line Enemies = 7 Deadly Sins

[Helmsmon]

Ok, hear me out here, and if there has been a topic about this before, please feel free to delete/lock this.
I was gonna wait for the next enemy to try and confirm this theory, but I am really impatient.

Now, so after Luffy entered the Grand Line, the MAIN enemies that he's fought in each arc have been at least partly based (not exactly based, but resemble) on the seven deadly sins in my opinion.

Wapol (I count him as a main villain/antagonist, since it was the arc they got a crewmate)

• Gluttony
  Pretty self-expanatory I think.

Crocodile

• Greed (or lust)
  The article I read said greed is associated with deliberate betrayal or treason, especially for personal gain, for example through bribery. Scavenging and hoarding of materials or objects, theft and robbery, especially by means of violence, trickery, or manipulation of authority are all actions that may be inspired by greed.
  It all sounds like Croc to me.
  He could also be lust, as lust doesn't have to be about love just as gluttony doesn't have to be about food. He has a lust for power.

Eneru

• Envy (could also be greed)
  Okay, you have to look kinda deep for this one, cause he's not envious of someone, but still attributes other aspects envy. Cause, like greed, envy is associated with an insatiable desire, but instead of material goods, it's more general. That is similar to his want to go to the moon. He could also be lust, as he has a lust for vearth and the moon, but that's kinda iffy.

Foxy

• Pride
  He had great pride in his abilities and his crew and got all emo when someone insulted him.

Lucci

• Wrath
  Well, the guy was merciless and killed people for being weak. Then there was his whole go from calm to bloodthirsty in a fight thing.

Moria

• Sloth
  Also self-explanatory.

Now that i look back over it, i can just change Croc to lust and Eneru to greed, but i am just going to leave it as is.
So now, in order for my theory to be confirmed, the next main enemy luffy fights will have to be envious in some way.

So what do you think? Please don't be too harsh.

[Knight in Panther's Skin]

You're just grasping for straws. You add a little arc within an arc like Drum and Davy Back Fight, but not Little Garden, Jaya, or Water 7?

Either way, it's not as if villains being sinful is some kind of astonishing revelation, and you just provided a couple examples of the many villains of the grand line, none of which fit into any sort of pattern other than being 'evil'.

[Kitsune9-TailedBeast]

It's…...a HUGE stretch............I've heard this theory in relation to the Shickibukai though, that one sounds more plauseable that yours, sorry to say.....
Crocodile: Greed
Moria: Sloth
Hawkeye: Pride
Doflamingo: Envy?
Kuma: Wrath?
Jinbei: Gluttony? (Whale Sharks eat hella-lots)
(Unknown): Lust?
Possibly BB: Also Greed to replace Greed

[Knight in Panther's Skin]

@Kitsune::

It's…...a HUGE stretch............I've heard this theory in relation to the Shickibukai though, that one sounds more plauseable that yours, sorry to say.....
Crocodile: Greed
Moria: Sloth
Hawkeye: Pride
Doflamingo: Envy?
Kuma: Wrath?
Jinbei: Gluttony? (Whale Sharks eat hella-lots)
(Unknown): Lust?
Possibly BB: Also Greed to replace Greed

Doflamingo seems a lot more prideful than Hawkeye.

[Helmsmon]

Yea, I can live with that, I was just saying something is all. Just a thought that ran across my mind.

[Kuroneko]

I always thought the idea of associating the Shichibukai with the 7 Deadly Sins was too forced.

[Kitsune9-TailedBeast]

@Knight:

Doflamingo seems a lot more prideful than Hawkeye.

Well…...Hawkeye seems not much else, and he seems built around pride XP and we don't know enough about either

[Kitsune9-TailedBeast]

@Kuroneko:

I always thought the idea of associating the Shichibukai with the 7 Deadly Sins was too forced.

Greed, Sloth, Pride, and MAYBE gluttony fall right into place, and we just don't know enough about the rest right now

[Helmsmon]

I just kinda thought that the shichibukai were too obvious of a comparison. But whatever, it doesn't really matter.

[Knight in Panther's Skin]

I don't really see the point in associating things with the seven cardinal sins in the first place. It's like people are obsessed with the concept.

[Cyanotic]

Dear god, not this theory again.

[Qualms]

Can we please stop with these seven sin thoeries? Even Mr. Alighieri is finding this boring now.

I hate what FMA did to manganime fans.

[WeAllEatFood]

@Cyanotic:

Dear god, not this theory again.

Listen to this man.

[Greg]

Wow…sits.....stands Really? Again? Wow..... sits

[lil odz]

no need to flame the poor guy because other people have thought of this before… the theory does apply, but i really doubt this is what oda set out to do...

[Knight in Panther's Skin]

@lil:

no need to flame the poor guy because other people have thought of this before… the theory does apply, but i really doubt this is what oda set out to do...

Yes, it applies, but it does so because they are villains, and villains always display sinful behavior, which is what makes them a villain.

It's like saying they are all connected because they all want the protagonist dead.

[Greg]

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=13107&highlight=shichibukai+deadly+sins

The theory is so old and dead that there's a thread dedicated to 'revamping' the theory.

[Gorlom]

@Knight:

Yes, it applies, but it does so because they are villains, and villains always display sinful behavior, which is what makes them a villain.

It's like saying they are all connected because they all want the protagonist dead.

QFT. hopefully once people realize this they can drop the whole 7DS

[Preston is a Pirate]

Hawkeye - Wrath (Hawkeye could be Pride but seems more vindictive then proud. He's a edgy person even towards the WG and SHanks, one of the Yonkou. He demolished Krieg's Armada out of anger that they woke him up from a nap. If he was truly proud, he would've killed Krieg for challenging him to a duel, as his pride would've been on the line, but he had already calmed down by then and iddn't care anymore.

Kuma - Pride (Kuma seems like the proud one because he is an overly religious person, seen carrying a bible everywhere. This translates to Pride for me in the Holier-Than-Thou Sense, as in he feels like he's better then you because HE'S teh one who walks the higher moral ground.

Moria - Sloth (this pretty much goes without saying, as Moria is lazy and would have others do his work for him)

Crocodile - Greed (obvious from his attempt to take over ALabasta, though he was aready a successful Shichibukai, he couldn't just settle for that and had to have an entire country and an ancient weapon.

Doflamingoe - Envy (so far his controlling powers indicate that he desires other powers for his own use, being envious in a sense.)

Jimbei - Gluttony (This is entirely speculation, but he could be huge and gluttaneous, as fishmen usually tend to be big and Jimbei has to be massive since he's described as the white shark fishman)

Unknown - Lust (only one left, doesn't neccessarily have to be a woman to be lust, could be a pimp shichibukai who has an entire harem or something.)

[Gorlom]

they are all greedy… thats why they became pirates.

[Hawkeye]

@Gorlom:

they are all greedy… thats why they became pirates.

Kuma is not greedy. By heavens sake he is a Christian man.

[Knight in Panther's Skin]

@Hawkeye:

Kuma is not greedy. By heavens sake he is a Christian man.

I see what you did there.

[Gorlom]

@Hawkeye:

Kuma is not greedy. By heavens sake he is a Christian man.

yep hes a true pacifist. living by the christians ideals full out. Wont Luffy be surprised when after punching the warlord, Kuma just turns the other cheek and lets Luffy hit him again.

he gets the booty for paying off the WG by passing around a collection plate.

[Greg]

How do we know there are Christians in OP?

OP isn't our world.

You can't be a Christian if there wasn't a Christ in your world.

And since Japanese people tend to know jackshit about religions around the world beyond what they see on their biased and usually misinformed variety programs. chances are Oda isn't aiming for some deep-seated meaning with the fellow.

OP villains always have been designed around being opposites of Luffy. They lack a quality which Luffy possesses. That's about as deep as it goes.

[grunk]

@Greg:

How do we know there are Christians in OP?

OP isn't our world.

You can't be a Christian if there wasn't a Christ in your world.

And since Japanese people tend to know jackshit about religions around the world beyond what they see on their biased and usually misinformed variety programs. chances are Oda isn't aiming for some deep-seated meaning with the fellow.

OP villains always have been designed around being opposites of Luffy. They lack a quality which Luffy possesses. That's about as deep as it goes.

one of the cool things about religion is that it somehow manages to corelate with different idealisms across the globe; just because we are so far apart doesnt make sin any less real.. the neatness that the snootchies closely resembles the 7DS is pretty cool irregardless, i think once we get to know em all better it'll even make it more clearer

edit - oi, also you mis underestimate Oda; he is a dude who understands the way the world works and integrates it into his work…
on a subconscious level; this guy is a well learned enlightened being; he did his homework.. and it shows.. the socio-political commentary of this guy is nothing short then revolutionary..

[grunk]

@Gorlom:

yep hes a true pacifist. living by the christians ideals full out. Wont Luffy be surprised when after punching the warlord, Kuma just turns the other cheek and lets Luffy hit him again.

he gets the booty for paying off the WG by passing around a collection plate.

when i think of the religious base of Kuma; being a brutal prick and a tool of totalitatian government control i think more of the message of the spanish inquisition then the "hey, everythings cool.. stop being dicks and just live it.. life is a fucking adventure!" message which is the essence of true religion.

[Mr. Lucci]

I never really thought of comparing them with the Seven Deadly Sins. It actually seems to make some sense, as people are explaining.

[AWB]

Just because they each possess one of the seven deadly sins doesn't mean they represent any of them. You can't be a villain without displaying one of the sins. Symbolism is One Piece is a bit lighter, like how Sir Crocodile represents the tale of Peter Pan with his hook (Captain Hook), namesake (pretty obvious), and his plan involving the giant tower (ticking crocodile).

[Mavado]

@Greg:

You can't be a Christian if there wasn't a Christ in your world.

Of course you can, just look at our world.
@Hawkeye:

Kuma is not greedy. By heavens sake he is a Christian man.

Since when did religion stop people from being greedy, violent and/or homicidal? If anything, religion only seem to make these traits worse…
@Pass:

You can't be a villain without displaying one of the sins.

You can't be a human without displaying one of the "sins".

[Sylar]

@Gorlom:

yep hes a true pacifist. living by the christians ideals full out. Wont Luffy be surprised when after punching the warlord, Kuma just turns the other cheek and lets Luffy hit him again.

he gets the booty for paying off the WG by passing around a collection plate.

Nice one!

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Oda really does make Kuma a Christian of some sort. Oda is definately a man who does his research.

And hey Kuma could be a Mormon.

[bedrock]

@Mavado:

Of course you can, just look at our world.

Since when did religion stop people from being greedy, violent and/or homicidal? If anything, religion only seem to make these traits worse…
You can't be a human without displaying one of the "sins".

quoted for truth …

[Kuroneko]

The Shichibukai don't need to hold the sins in each one of its members. We even don't know Jimbei and the unknown one yet, and some fans are taking especulations as facts.

Just because they each possess one of the seven deadly sins doesn't mean they represent any of them.

Right. Wapol is a gluton, so that would be a plothole based in this theory?

[CLERICSHADOW]

If I had a dollar for every time this theory has come up in just over the past year I'd be sipping tea with Bill Gates right about now!

@Kuroneko:

The Shichibukai don't need to hold the sins in each one of its members. We even don't know Jimbei and the unknown one yet, and some fans are taking especulations as facts.

Did I just make this argument about people trying to make there predictions as facts last night??? Be careful Kuroneko or Bedrock might start an argument with you lol

[Gorlom]

@grunk:

edit - oi, also you mis underestimate Oda; he is a dude who understands the way the world works and integrates it into his work…
on a subconscious level; this guy is a well learned enlightened being; he did his homework.. and it shows.. the socio-political commentary of this guy is nothing short then revolutionary..

think greg was saying that while Oda may know about christianity his indended primary demographic (japaneese people) dont know anything big enough to be able to relate to it or understand it.

[Angel emfrbl]

Like this thread and idea hasn't been done before. Whenever you get 7 of anything, someone will throw this up. Lucky our other 7 sins theory died with Franky.

[Mugiwara No Hermy]

Moria is definitely Sloth, but so is Aokiji. Doflamingo is mostly Pride, as Crocodile is mostly Greed. But so are alot of others. Enel, Buggy and Bellamy also share greed and pride traits. Wapol is quite right for Gluttony. Hawk Eyes doesn't even fit the pattern, he's none of the 7 sins. So the theory kinda fails.

All of the villains share at least one deadly sin, but that's because they're villains I guess.

[Gorlom]

@Angel:

Like this thread and idea hasn't been done before. Whenever you get 7 of anything, someone will throw this up. Lucky our other 7 sins theory died with Franky.

why doeesnt anyone ever draw connections to the seven dwarves?
Doc, Grumpy, Happy, Sneezy, Bashful, Sleepy, and Dopey.

Mihawk is Grumpy, Crocodile is Doc (cus of all the planning. hes named the equivilant of "smarty" or "wisey" in my language.), Moria is Sleepy, Kuma is bashful (quiet type), DoFlamingo is Happy (comeon he got a bigass smily as his pirate flag). and the last two are sneezy and dopey.

[dirt monkey AL]

@Gorlom:

why doeesnt anyone ever draw connections to the seven dwarves?
Doc, Grumpy, Happy, Sneezy, Bashful, Sleepy, and Dopey.

Mihawk is Grumpy, Crocodile is Doc (cus of all the planning), Moria is Sleepy, Kuma is bashful (quiet type), DoFlamingo is Happy (comeon he got a bigass smily as his pirate flag). and the last two are sneezy and dopey.

So either Fishmen can sneeze or Jimbei's a dealer as well as a pirate?

[Dopefish]

Well there's of course a counterpart to the seven deadly sins….the 7 virtues!
Now let's look at the shichibukai from a different angle:

Hope: Hawkeyes hopes to battle Zorro once more!
Faith: Don Flamingo has absolutely no doubts about creating a world in which only the strong and powerful survive
Cunningness: Crocodile of course, at least he was aknowledged for his brilliant strategy to take over Alabasta.
Justice: Kuma carries a bible and World's history reminds us that only good and fair things can come from Religion
Love: Doesn't Moria love his underlings like a mother her own children?
…well there's Courage and Moderation left, but im overflowing with irony so i better stop right here.

[Gorlom]

@Dopefish:

Well there's of course a counterpart to the seven deadly sins….the 7 virtues!
Now let's look at the shichibukai from a different angle:

Hope: Hawkeyes hopes to battle Zorro once more!
Faith: Don Flamingo has absolutely no doubts about creating a world in which only the strong and powerful survive
Cunningness: Crocodile of course, at least he was aknowledged for his brilliant strategy to take over Alabasta.
Justice: Kuma carries a bible and World's history reminds us that only good and fair things can come from Religion
Love: Doesn't Moria love his underlings like a mother her own children?
…well there's Courage and Moderation left, but im overflowing with irony so i better stop right here.

BUWAAHAHAHAHAHHH "ahwesome" ^^

[Mr. Lucci]

This post is deleted!

[Greg]

edit - oi, also you mis underestimate Oda; he is a dude who understands the way the world works and integrates it into his work…
on a subconscious level; this guy is a well learned enlightened being; he did his homework.. and it shows.. the socio-political commentary of this guy is nothing short then revolutionary..

PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS A JOKE

> You can't be a Christian if there wasn't a Christ in your world.

Of course you can, just look at our world.

What? No really, what?

You can't be a Christian because there was no Christ in that world. To counter that you say, "Just look at our world." I'm still trying to wrap my brain about what you're trying to point out.

Unless of course you're trying a childish argument, "Jesus didn't exist!" In which case I'd have to say you're impossible. This has nothing to do with religion or faith, it has purely to do with documented historical figures. I don't believe in any miracles, nor anything like that on earth ever happening. Like say for example, meditating without food for 49 days under a tree. That doesn't mean Siddhartha Gautama didn't exist.

Since when did religion stop people from being greedy, violent and/or homicidal? If anything, religion only seem to make these traits worse…

Spoken like a true tool.

Many religions in their simplest forms are an excellent blueprint for life. Some of these are ancient beliefs based on ideas that would help people genetically survive by living lives that weren't for their own benefit, but in serving others. It teaches humility which every person needs because if you think by birth, education, social standing, etc. you're better than anyone else, you're a fucking jackass.

Two mistakes can easily be made with religion, interpretting it directly and hanging onto beliefs which no longer fit the modern world. Say for example, the damnation of homosexuals. Back when there were very fucking few people in the world and we didn't have things like penicillin it was a good idea to stay away from fucking left and right to avoid disease, or in a way that could aid in spreading disease. Well nowadays we have things to prevent those kinds of things from happening. That's why I may be a Christian in nature and even though I believe homosexuality goes against the law of nature from a genetic perspective, I don't think anything is wrong with it or condemn it.

And when people take ideas that say they must 'save others' to an extreme well then shit like The Crusades or Jihads goes down.

Many if not most religions/ancient systems of beliefs in their most simple forms across the globe, merely teach humility and ways to get along better with people. Don't condemn religion because some assholes take it to extremes.

You can't be a human without displaying one of the "sins".

This makes no sense in the context, Pass is talking about a manga character, why are you bringing in people? Because to whom Pass was comparing it to was someone that isn't a villain, ie. Luffy. Luffy isn't a human and nothing makes this more true than his ideals which he upholds. You have essentially made Pass's statement more strong.

[DesertSpada]

No, I really doubt that the Shichibukai reflect the Seven Deadly Sins. Really, you could make it work with every show because the villain will display one of them. I say no. The Grand Line Enemies=/= 7 Deadly Sins.

[Mavado]

@Greg:

PLEASE TELL ME THIS IS A JOKE

Please tell me you were joking about the rest you said.

@Greg:

This has nothing to do with religion or faith, it has purely to do with documented historical figures.

Exactly, you don't seem to realize just how poorly documented this case is. Paul is the one we know existed, there's no need or evidence of this Jesus chap at all (all we have are a few scholars reporting on what some new cult happens to believe in, nothing more).

Not to mention that when you compare the Jesus figure with earlier legends you find that he's pretty much a rip-off of the Egyptian god Horus and several other sun gods anyway, leaving his existence even more implausible.

@Greg:

Many religions in their simplest forms are an excellent blueprint for life.

Too bad morontheism came along with their whole "kill the unbelievers" thing.

@Greg:

Two mistakes can easily be made with religion, interpretting it directly and hanging onto beliefs which no longer fit the modern world.

I agree that it's a mistake to do this, but religious people do it all the time.

@Greg:

Don't condemn religion because some assholes take it to extremes.

I condemn those religions that have that "extreme" part built into them, that would include all the Abrahamic faiths.

@Greg:

Pass is talking about a manga character, why are you bringing in people?

Because those "7 sins" are personality traits that we all share to a greater or lesser degree, it doesn't mean you're a villain. If you only want to compare with fictional characters then look at the Strawhats, they all display those traits as well.

[Angel emfrbl]

Unless the 7 sins are openly put forward like in FM:Alchemist, I wouldn't bother with any of the OP + 7sins comparison theories.

[aleph]

Here's th truth:
Luffy: gluttony
Zoro:sloth
Nami:greed
Usopp:pride
Sanji:lust

Somebody please stop me if i'm wrong

[Gorlom]

Mavado: what in the bloody ….

please do NOT claim that killing infidels is something built into either christianity or islam.
The apostels werent conqurors... they spread the word by talking to people not by killing them.
the crusades arent a cause of religion, it merely uses religion as a means to justify it. if there had been no religion they would have used something else.

and islam: when the muslims conqured europe around the same time as the crusades i belive they didnt care for shit what jews and christians belived in.
ofcourse they used it to spread their word, but they didnt kill "infidels" justy because they didnt belive in the right god.

dont make this into a religion debate mavado, please just pull out... and its only you that can since everyone that does belive will have to defend their faith.

[Mavado]

@Gorlom:

please do NOT claim that killing infidels is something built into either christianity or islam.

The killing of non-believers was (for the most part) a separate point actually.

Regardless, even though it has reformed in later days, Christianity still carries with it all those disgusting parts from the old testament that allowed (you may call it an excuse, but it would have been pretty hard to rally all those people without it) them to carry out all those horrible atrocities in the past.

Personally, I would feel a lot better if they all just went and burned that part of their book. Just to distance themselves from it, you know…

And as for Islam... [scroll down]

@Gorlom:

and islam: when the muslims conqured europe around the same time as the crusades i belive they didnt care for shit what jews and christians belived in.

That's because Islam is concerned with acts, not faith. Regardless, Islam only allows three fates for those who don't follow it:

**1:**Conversion (pretty self-evident)
**2:**Submission under Islamic rule (which is anything but equal. For one thing, it isn't considered much of a crime for a Muslim to kill a nonbeliever.)
**3:**War (peace-treaties are only allowed to be signed when the Muslims are militarily inferior, and then only so that they can build their armies).

@Gorlom:

and its only you that can since everyone that does belive will have to defend their faith.

The only defense of faith would be evidence, and once you have that there's no need for faith anymore.

[Gorlom]

@Mavado:

The only defense of faith would be evidence, and once you have that there's no need for faith anymore.

you have missed the point of faith/religion.

look im not really fond of what some people have done in the name of religion either, (im an atheist) but i atleast recognize that the problems lie with the interperations rather then the original idea itself.

[aleph]

@aleph:

Here's th truth:
Luffy: gluttony
Zoro:sloth
Nami:greed
Usopp:pride
Sanji:lust

Somebody please stop me if i'm wrong

This tread is about One Piece, not religion or the lack there of.