Has Oda lost his touch?

shuvy87

Note: Before you read this, I must inform that I read all episodes in Japanese, so I do not know the official English spellings, and I may make grammatical errors, as English is not my first language.

I been talking with my other Japanese friends and we all seem to agree to the fact that Arabasta Ark was the peak of ONE PIECE and Oda has not been as good as he has been since then. We feel that certain elements, such as complexity, dept, and entrainment of stories is lacking in the current stories. Though, Skypiea is comparable to the Arabasta Ark, but still not as good. Some claim that this is because we were middle schoolers during the Arabasta Ark, and now that we are college students, we don’t get as excited as we used to do with the current stories. Don't get this in wrong way, we all have been One Piece fans since episode one and we all still rate ONE PIECE as number one manga.

What does this all gibberish mean? Well, if we look at the Arabasta ark closely, we have the main story of BW and Croko trying to take over the Arabasta (for Pluton of course). The whole story starts when Luffy and co. meet the Giant Whale and Miss Wed (Princess Bibi) at the Futagotou. From this point to end of the Arabasta Ark, there are several “unrelated” but important topic/themes covered and at the same times the Mugiwara Pirates were able to travel to several different islands; thus the word complexity and dept. These include the whale, the two Giants at the Little Garden, the Goldfish (Ussop’s earlier story), Choopa’s story at the Drum Island, Black beard/Ace, and finally Pluton/Ponegraph.

We also believe entertainment (comedy) aspects used to be very balanced as they were added when necessary but not to the point were flow of the story was destroyed. Now it seems like Oda is rushing through the story a little and there are some “moments” of nice stories but the comedy became the main part of the story.

Kuroneko

Are you sure comedy became the main part of the story? Just look at Enies Lobby Arc and second-half of Skypea, there is no moment of humor in those arcs but maybe Spandam, Jabura and Enel's shock face.

guitaguar

I'm not one to call names or pass judgement but what the fuck is up with these "Decline of Everything We Hold Dear Until Destruction" threads recently? jesus. just be patient until the New World arcs begin and then we can pass out Judgement on Oda until he starts an all brand-new series based on sharp-shooting cowboys.

WeAllEatFood

I never really understood why people see Alabasta as ''TEH BEST ARCH'', but
to each his own.

cp9luchi

Alabasta was epic, I didn't like skypeia at first, but once I re-read and it was epic too, W7/EL was also epic, The New World is coming up and I hope it's gonna be even more awsome

smith

To be fair, I dislike those two arcs the most(Arabasta and Skypea). In Arabasta there were moments, yes moments but it was running too long for me, don't get me wrong I liked it, I like to split it into smaller arcs, makes the overal feeling for me bit better. Skypea was - just was.

Im a person who doesn't have to have topnotch quality, I can play a game with poor or non-existing graphics, I need a story and action, with some frontal nudity. Op is packed with action and has a very good story, with some frontal nudity.

I rest my case here, as it's obviouse where I'm heading, OP is like DIE HARD, EPIC.

I refere to frontal nudity as fun and some frontal nudity.

e1n

i thought comedy has always been a very essential (if not the main) part of one piece. it's what separates it from other stories and what got a lot of people into it: it's FUN.

Rai

As e1n said it, OP's humor is just there for everything. How good could TB be without frickin' zombies as the best comical aspects?

But on another note, I don't see where this is going. What the fuck. I still love OP and whenever I read even one page of it again, I realize I'm no good for shit with storytelling. So I can say I couldn't care less wether you and some of your friends don't like it anymore.
There's nothing to discuss.

igalsfy

yeah, because YOU don't think he's done stuff better than arabasta means that he lost his touch, right? you're not fucking almighty.

Desperado

Maybe Oda should try again harder making us believe that Luffy & Co. could actually LOSE a battle.

theAMAZINGboo

Eh, I think that was what Ajo..ajak….aja..I'm calling him frosty. That's what he was for, since he pretty much made all of the straw hat pirates his personal bitch.

I see One Piece as one huge story. Every chapter, from beginning to end has a purpose, and it only gets better as it goes along. As far as Alabasta goes.. It's epic, and I can't deny that. Though it's still the least favorite of the "major" arcs. But it's still One Piece so it's awesome. That probably doesn't make a lot of sense, eh.

Caracal

Note: I've had a long day so I apologise if this reply makes little sense.

@Desperado:

Maybe Oda should try again harder making us believe that Luffy & Co. could actually LOSE a battle.

I'm not sure myself. Sure maybe having them lose more frequently may be nice, but when you think about it, it's not really an option. For a start Oda usually avoids the cliché:

Hero: VILLAIN! LETS FIGHT!
fight
Villain: HA HA! I win/It's a draw!
Hero: I must train for x days/weeks/months/years.
training
Hero: I am stronger now. RE-MATCH!
fight
Villain: I've lost.
At which point the arc ends. The major One Piece fights happen at the end of the arc. Normally any battles that happen half way through an arc can go to either side, i.e. the times Luffy lost to Crocodile. Besides, to me having the heroes lose their "final fights" just isn't what One Piece is about. One Piece isn’t about warriors trying to get stronger but rather people protecting what they believe in and stand for. In my eyes having them lose doesn’t really fit into that equation. Besides, who said someone has to lose to prove how strong or weak they are? Last time I checked Luffy had to give it his all to beat Arlong, Crocodile and Lucci. To me, seeing the heroes give 110% then collapse in a dear death state after the battle shows that they are not on some "God tier" level.

And as for Oda losing his touch, maybe, maybe not. I'm a huge fan of Frasier yet some people say the show jumped during the 10th season when Niles had to go into major surgery. While it may not have been the highlight of the season, the 11th has many classic humours moments that I adore. If indeed the "Niles is sick" story arc is a drop in quality (I’ve still not come to my decision), it's at worse a slump as in my eyes the series picks up again. One Piece is the same. If the current arcs may not match some of the classics (I personally don't agree with that opinion), maybe Oda is in a slump he has yet to recover from. The fat lady hasn't even begun to warm her voice up yet.

King Kobra

@Desperado:

Maybe Oda should try again harder making us believe that Luffy & Co. could actually LOSE a battle.

It's a Manga. Unlike a book or let's even say a videogame, there's a gap of time that Oda can't waste in such things as making something way too complex, so that's why most of the time Luffy & Co. power up trough friendship to do what was impossible some chapters before.

I like One Piece as a Manga, so I see how people could believe that Fights and Comedy are the core of it, yet Oda has done an amazing job at the moment of creating memorable characters for each one of his arcs. I can't really say that One Piece has dissapointed me in the time being when I compare it to the other Manga of it's own genre, so yeah, if you want to blame someone, then blame Jump for pushing Oda and other Mangaka to prolongate the lives of their creations that became too popular for their own good.

Ramza

pretty big rant just for one piece…cant imagine how big the rant would be for naruto:blink:

dirt monkey AL

@theAMAZINGboo:

Eh, I think that was what Ajo..ajak….aja..I'm calling him frosty. That's what he was for, since he pretty much made all of the straw hat pirates his personal bitch.

I see One Piece as one huge story. Every chapter, from beginning to end has a purpose, and it only gets better as it goes along. As far as Alabasta goes.. It's epic, and I can't deny that. Though it's still the least favorite of the "major" arcs. But it's still One Piece so it's awesome. That probably doesn't make a lot of sense, eh.

inserts Aokiji with mind-powers

Gorlom

@shuvy87:

Some claim that this is because we were middle schoolers during the Arabasta Ark, and now that we are college students, we don’t get as excited as we used to do with the current stories. Don't get this in wrong way, we all have been One Piece fans since episode one and we all still rate ONE PIECE as number one manga.

I'd bet my money on that. Dont worry, to those of us that started only a year or 2 ago Oda hasnt lost anything at all.

Cap'n Carter

I've enjoyed this series significantly more after Alabasta, so I'd say no.

boiga

@Desperado:

Maybe Oda should try again harder making us believe that Luffy & Co. could actually LOSE a battle.

They still do lose battles. Luffy and zoro lost badly to CP9 at water 7. At EL, Sanji went down hard against califa and Usopp got his butt kicked by jabura.
Hell on thriller bark, Sanji, zoro,and luffy got taken down by SPIDER MICE. Then again, Perona wiped them all out. They lose all the time.

The nice thing about one piece, though, is that they lose for logical reasons against opponents who have strategic advantages against them.

To the "it's all been down hill since alabasta" comment, I have to say that I strongly disagree. That arc had some good moments but it lagged near the end. Also, the entire point of the fight (to stop vivi from having to cry for her people) was really quite lame. Vivi had no real personality and the citizens of Alabasta were such fools that it was difficult to empathize with them.

Admittedly, Skypiea was much longer that it really ought to have been, and the Davy back fight was merely a goofy distraction from the main plot. However, since the end of the Davy Back fight, I've only been more and more impressed with Oda's skills.

The Water seven arc had at least as complicated of a plot as alabasta with the deceptions, betrayals, redemption and rescue. The poseidon back story was much more successfully rendered than the "oh that's what he was after" feeling you had with Croc and Pluton. Most importantly though, Nico Robin makes a much more intriguing damsel than Vivi. She certainly whined a lot less anyways.

So I'm with carter. I've always enjoyed One Piece, but only really became a fan because of the direction it has been going since the Davy Back fight.

Laffitte

No, he hasn't lost his touch, you just can't realize how to appreciate One Piece. And if you think he has? Quit reading it, simple.

CodedTech

@igalsfy:

yeah, because YOU don't think he's done stuff better than arabasta means that he lost his touch, right? you're not fucking almighty.

Well for the most part, he said "we" before everything, meaning he clearly understands that it's his and his friend's opinion… (some just state what they think as fact) and going by the topic title, I'm assuming he meant for others to state their own opinion on it.

Alabasta is probably my favorite One Piece arc (I would've said otherwise sometime during Water 7 without actually thinking back to how Alabasta was), but overall, I'd still say that One Piece improves to a certain extent or at the very least, doesn't degrade, as it goes along. Just that a few great moments in certain arcs, or a prefence of settings, would make an arc more enjoyable for me.

gaara d. lucci

Somewhat, but the loss of quality isn't as notable as some other series so I let it slide (sometimes).

tony-kun

Nah. if anything he's gotten better.

Alabasta wasn't really that great(it was a good arc, but not really so far above the other arcs). Each arc has a different feel. Saying it's lost it's touch because it hasn't had an alabasta like arc is kinda dumb.

Selph

One Piece is, and will remain, my favourite manga for it manages to maintain its entertainment level balanced through every single chapter. There is not a single chapter I remember I was disappointed of. As opposed to Bleach, Naruto and some of the others where almost all of the chapters are very disappointing while some are as good as bad one piece chapters. How this relates to Oda losing his touch is that the boom factor in Oda is missing. Usually the Boom comes through while there have been several boring chapter and all of the sudden BOOM something really unexpected and awesome, which we see in Naruto and Bleach sometimes and that is what make them a great manga. But One Piece has been keeping booming every single fucking chapter since fucking alabasta. There are always constant surprises, new plot twists, characters, communications, humor, introductions, and finalés twisted into one big whirlwind of booms that is quite confusing to embrace.

Or at least that's how I see it.

Rai

What the hell are you talking about people?

As far as I can tell, old OP and modern OP are completely different things. Old part is a classic that isn't like the latter parts at all. How can you even compare Alabasta with W7 or EL? For me at least, the feeling from reading both was a different kind of greatness. It all kicks ass in it's own way which I love.

don't hit me

Selph

Yeah you're right Rai, Oda's always passing new grounds and doing new stuff to avoid doing the same stuff over and over. Kind of like Bleach, Naruto, Eyeshield(and other sports manga), and most of all Dragonball Z. But since what was new back then is a classic now I think it's pretty certain that the current events will eventually become classics as new stuff comes along . I for one already see Skypiea as a classic work and Thriller Bark looks very much like it will be a classic in a few years.

Jay_n_Silentbob

Do not flinch, Rai! I agree!

Although I also agree with Shuvy, only that it seems more rushed now. I'd like to think it's because the anime was catching up to him (I only started reading the manga when they started airing episodes of the crew's past during Enies Lobby).

I mean, Oda even said in an SBS (forgot which one) that he wanted to reveal more about Lucci's past but he wanted to make the pace move quicker.

As for Alabasta, yea, it was great in that epic battle-kinda way…But Water 7, for example was great but in that dramatic friend's-figthing-kinda way...

Ya know what I mean?

Mr. Half

Like almost every single chapter from the giant final battle of Water 7 to when they first met Brooke was like the greatest thing ever. And the fact that Brooke turned out to be spoiler's Nakama was purely amazing.

Frankly, I didn't like their stay at Alabaster nearly as much as I liked the stories that came before and after.

Ao Kiji

Im a person who doesn't have to have topnotch quality, I can play a game with poor or non-existing graphics, I need a story and action, with some frontal nudity. Op is packed with action and has a very good story, with some frontal nudity.

ROFL~!!!

Eh, I think that was what Ajo..ajak….aja..I'm calling him frosty. That's what he was for, since he pretty much made all of the straw hat pirates his personal bitch.

oh my my…Please try harder to spell my nameeee....z..z..z...

As far as Oda-sensei losing his touch. In storytelling, No way. In fight choreographing, maybe alittle. I didnt see anything in W7 that rivaled the fights of the Alabasta or even the Arlong arc. Still at this point in DB, it had COMPLETELY jumped the shark while OP remains constantly entertaining, fresh and original all at the same time. Have the last three storylines been better than Alabastar or Arlong, no,but they've had moments that defintely show the best may be yet to come. There hasnt been a story that gets into this rythme and hits all the beats perfectly one after another the way those two storylines did. But at the same time, it's pretty obvious Oda-sensei can still write and pull that kinda storytelling off again. It just hasn't happened since.

Also I noticed, the Japanese tend to see Alabastar as their favorite OP arc of all time while the Americans seem to prefer Arlong..

EDIT: I love Selph's post! I totally agree and it's funny how it sounds exactly like something a OP character would say. I wonder if he was purposely channeling the way that shipwright "Tom" spook with the whole "DON"/BOOM thing?!XDD

Kaze

I agree with e1n, if One piece weren't as humorous as it is, then I probably wouldn't have been as interested.

Bounty1Berry

@Ao:

Also I noticed, the Japanese tend to see Alabastar as their favorite OP arc of all time while the Americans seem to prefer Arlong..

Theory 1: Americans have had less access to the series; the Japanese have had seven years to dissect Arlong to death already.

Theory 2: The "Liberating Hero/Repressive Dictator" plot dials into every single action move ever made in America.

@Kaze:

I agree with e1n, if One piece weren't as humorous as it is, then I probably wouldn't have been as interested.

The humor is what makes you stay?

nickel56

Actually, Alabasta was never a favourite of mine, it was too lengthy for my liking. In fact, the Ace-fillers in the anime made it better since I enjoy seeing the brothers' interactions.
So no, I don't think Oda is going down. To me, each arc just gets better, like TB arc now, it's all fun, and we're building up for the New World.

Kaze

@DougyDougyGiro!*:

The humor is what makes you stay?

no? But it certainly plays a big factor.

i didn't say I wouldn't have watched it or read it at all if there wasn't any humor.

Satanstorm

We can"t say that Arabasta was the best arc, what about Enies lobby, non of the former arcs could compare to the catastrophie and the drama of Enies lobby, and allso Oda is getting better and better, the whole story is getting more and more interesting and compact so you can"t say that it is getting worn out.

Radical jack

well compared to other manga that spanned over 30 vols(let alone what 45?) oda has done a pretty good job in consistent entertaiment.

Aldrich

^^^^Yeah, pretty much what I think too. Sure it had some parts that I found uninteresting or even annoying but on a whole, for a weekly published manga it's amazing how it maintains a high level of fun.

Chaos Inferno19

@WeAllEatFood:

I never really understood why people see Alabasta as ''TEH BEST ARCH'', but
to each his own.

I dont

Enies Lobby FOR THE WIN

i am just going to say no if anything i think oda has gotten better

Demon Rin

I loved Arabasta, but in all Honesty, Enies Lobby Might actually be my Favorite Arc, it already contains my Favorite Scene (生ぎたい!! 私も一緒に海へ連れてって - The one with this Line XD)
Oda's only gotten better XP

Gorlom

@Laffitte:

No, he hasn't lost his touch, you just can't realize how to appreciate One Piece. And if you think he has? Quit reading it, simple.

Laffitte be nice.:getlost: he came here to discuss what we think of the manga not to announce that the manga is dropping in quality or that he is going to quit reading the manga. :sad:

dont be such a hater :wub: (ok that last one was mostly because im just playing with the smilies :happy: )

Ajiro

If he came to discuss, why have I yet to see a second post from him?

Gorlom

perhaps because some people were rude and he thought there was no point anymore. it would just turn into a flame war?

Laffitte

@Gorlom:

Laffitte be nice.:getlost: he came here to discuss what we think of the manga not to announce that the manga is dropping in quality or that he is going to quit reading the manga. :sad:

dont be such a hater :wub: (ok that last one was mostly because im just playing with the smilies :happy: )

Well, a lot of people just see him as degrading Oda.
And I have yet to see a second post by him, which doesn't bring the word "discuss" into play.

Kingoffans

Oda-Sensei is a fuckin' Genius! He's the Mozart of manga. I mean he started One Piece when he was only 19 and as time passed, he kept getting better and better! Which is to be expected with experience. Enies Lobby, so far is my favorite arc followed by Skypiea. Alabasta is my third. I never really liked Vive and her country. I'm serious, sometimes I just wished Crocodile would win and take her country and chain her and make her watch him rule it as she cries her eyes out whilst getting raped by him and Ms Double finger. OK, maybe the previous sentence was a bit too much but seriously I never emphatized with why Luffy wanted to help her so much. In short, I don't think Oda-Sensei did enough for her character. Please don't hate me, it's only an opinion! Still though, Storm rocked ass^^ and the other fights were cool but I like the future fights even more. Conclusion, Oda-Sensei losing his touch? Are you mad?

Jay_n_Silentbob

@kingoffans:

I never really liked Vive and her country. I'm serious, sometimes I just wished Crocodile would win and take her country and chain her and make her watch him rule it as she cries her eyes out whilst getting raped by him and Ms Double finger. OK, maybe the previous sentence was a bit too much

:blink:

Uhhh…Yea...Maybe a bit more than a bit...

Kishido

I think OP is amazing as ever. I can't see a single arc which wasnät amazing

Gorlom

@Laffitte:

Well, a lot of people just see him as degrading Oda.

I just found it a bit more agressive then what was needed.
who cares what his opinion about him is anyway? Noone needs to defend Oda… especially not on the internet. You can post your own opinion but attacking someone elses when he is asking for a discussion (his whole post was a question not a statement) is just silly imo.

im probably digging my own grave here but imo the tone of your post really just stood out somehow and was of a completly different atmosphere then most of the others (iglysfy had the same kind of tone as you did though but he choose his words a bit different)
they didnt agree but they werent as agressive as you were.

SabZ

People who enjoyed the Arabasta Arc or Saga have the right to think that the series has gone downhill. But not everybody shares the same favorites, so not everybody will agree.

I personally think that end of Alabasta and Jaya Arc was OP at it's peak (so far). But I wouldn't say Oda has lost his touch since, because that'd be like me never being allowed to favour one arc over the other.

shuvy87

Thanks for great response, guys. I just wanted to see comments from the fans in English speaking community.

Just to clear things up.@Laffitte:

No, he hasn't lost his touch, you just can't realize how to appreciate One Piece. And if you think he has? Quit reading it, simple.

No, I DO NOT hate Oda or ONE PIECE. I still appreciate the work he has been putting for past 10 years now, I still want to read the mysteries and adventure we have yet to see.@Ao:

Also I noticed, the Japanese tend to see Alabastar as their favorite OP arc of all time while the Americans seem to prefer Arlong..

A lot of Japanese ppl rate OP in following ways: Arabasta > Skypiea/Jaya > Arlong & pre-grandline > DBF. I intentionally left out the w7/EL as lot of ppl are still figuring where to fit it.

I think a lot of ppl here misunderstood me, so let me try to explain it again. In the all arks, story follows simple pattern: 1) The mugiwara pirates arrives to a new place, 2) discovers few new things, 3) identify the major enemy, and then 4) beat the crap out of the enemies.

But the unique thing about Arabasta Ark is the time span between event 3 and event 4. Notice, Luffy knew that he had to defeat Croko at the whiskey Peak at book 11. But these two did not meet until book 19 and it took another three books just to defeat Kroco. Why did Oda left a huge span?

Well…. he used this span to introduce the grand line, to relate themes from the past and future (overlaps between arks), and to build the tension between the crew and Kroko. A lot people thought Ussop's Goldfish story was weird and funny, but I do not think any of us actually expected that it was actually going to show up in the story. Two out of three things that Dragon said at Logue town, (will that passes on, events of the time) also comes up in this time span. Nami becomes sick, and Luffy had to recruit Chopa. Ginats and Blackbeard/Ace becomes extremely important after the Arabasta Ark. Do you see how the mini stories are overlapped between arks. I think the overlaps makes the story realistic and enjoyable and that has been missing in current arks except the two giants at the EL and the lapan (the giant whale)'s story at thriller bark. I think what I am trying to get is that there are far more overlaps in Arabasta Ark, than any other arks. This is why I said that the ark was complex.

Also, the "long" time span was more realistic. In real life, when anyone has a goal, he or she must face several challenges before reaching to the the final challenge. It takes time. But in recent ark, the time span is very short.

I just may be one of those guys that who think Arabasta is the peak of the story. But remember there are ppl who think, pre-grandline is the peak.

AlmostLegendary

I don't think Oda is losing his touch I feel that he has gotten better with ever single arc. Alabasta is my favorite arc it got me into OP. I think people are being over critical and over analytical of the series.

The mugiwara pirates arrives to a new place, 2) discovers few new things, 3) identify the major enemy, and then 4) beat the crap out of the enemies

I hate this type of board generalization. There is a story line I have friends that say all OP is, is MonkeyDluffy punching and screaming. If you view OP under a scope like that you might not be as much of a fan as you think.

Gorlom

@MonkeyDMalcolm:

I hate this type of board generalization. There is a story line I have friends that say all OP is, is MonkeyDluffy punching and screaming. If you view OP under a scope like that you might not be as much of a fan as you think.

I want to take the time to point out an interesting phenomenon that in my language is called a "cultural clash"

baisicly since the cultures differ people form those cultures see things differently.

I think Greg or someone once posted something about him visiting Japaneese boards and found that Japaneese in general were far more analytic then the general western fan.