Everything about dragon is a big mystery exept that he is luffys father.
Now i wanna know if anyone understands what hes trying to accomplish?
Dragons revolution? *spolier*
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Crushing WG.
I'm too lazy to check, but I think your sig's size might be over the limit.
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Basically he's directly attacking the WG so they will not rule the OP world. My guess is that he knows the existence of the Void Century, and probably knows how to read Poneglyphs somehow. Maybe he was learnt by Gol D. Roger.
Anyway, I'm pretty certain it will be Dragon and his team that will bring down the WG, as well as the final goings on in arc to decide the Pirate King.
There might be a chance that the Revolutionaries may become the fourth great power, as the WG said that Dragon is getting stronger.
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I have a feeling the final conflict that was planned for so long is going to be Luffy VS Dragon, since Dragon did appear early in the series (Loguetown Arc). So all this Revolution thing against the WG is going to lead to the battle somehowā¦ Anyone got theories to support this?
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IMO when Dragon gathers enough power to bring down the WG the Mugiwara will be strong enough to battle together with the revolutionaries. this revolution will also become the turning point where the Marines and Shichibukai are going to be divided
so the final battles I expect are:
Mugiwara Pirates vs. Five Elder Stars
Dragon vs. Sengoku
Ao Kiji & Garp vs. Akainu and the third admiral
Smoker,Hina,Coby,Helmeppo+Tashigi vs. buster call vice admirals
2 Yonkou vs. 2 Yonkou (Shanks & WB will either team up or fight against each other)
the shichibukai will be divided too -> Hawkeye will be on the good side of course
I can't decide about DoFlamingo yet - he wants a new world and a revolution results in a new world so he could side with the revolutionists 
so I expect Dragon's revolution to incite a great clash for all powers and whatever the outcome from the battles the OP world will be forever changed :happy:
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^you forgot about tashigi in your anti buster call group.
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^you forgot about tashigi in your anti buster call group.
No he did not there is a plus before Tashigi yo show she is againstthe buster call.
My guess is that he is building power to beat the world goverment.And luffy joins him because the world goverment has his brother. thanks to black beard.that is my speculation.
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I'm too lazy to check, but I think your sig's size might be over the limit.
ok i dĆdnt know there was a limit >.<
So basicly Dragon is out to destroy WG, and create a new world? if i got it all right?
Some how i think there is more to it than that. but i cant put it in words. -
No he did not there is a plus before Tashigi yo show she is againstthe buster call.
_Last edited by jammit : June 29th, 2007 at 05:30 AM. Reason: 10x for the suggestion cfmrfrpfmsf
basicaly I forgot her but added the name after_ cfmrfrpfmsf's post ;)
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Destroying the WG. I have a feeling that he might team up with Luffy sometime on Raftel. BB might somehow join the WG, but not Shichibukaiā¦ Idk. I have a feeling in the end the Strawhats, Revolutionaries and a few people Luffy befriended along the way will team up against the WG. I would like to see old people come in like Vivi and a few people from Alabasta, Crocus and maybe Laboon, etc. Buggy might even join too, which would be awesome. I have a feeling the Yonkou will team up with SH and Revolutionaries too. Something big is going to happen with Dragon soon though, such as aiding Laboon in smashing through the Red Line, and then a huge battle starts with the remaining Shichibukai and WG people versus all the people I listed before. I have a feeling that in the end Dragon will end up dying by BB or something though.
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Yeah I get the feeling that this revolution is more than just an usurption of power too.
I could be wrong though. Anyway it's probably something to do with the Will of D
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I'm actually not certain that the series will end so predictably as some of you.
Hasn't anyone thought that the WG may not be the bad guys in all of this? If Dragon's revolution is over secrets from the lost century that have the power to destroy the world, then why would luffy help them to release those weapons to the public?
It is obvious that Oda is setting up an endgame where the WG will be fighting against Dragon's revolution with pirates joining up on either side of the conflict or acting as self interested third parties.
But why are you all so sure that the Mugiwara will join up with the revolution? From what we have seen, the revolutionaries have brought war and travesty to every island that they have "liberated." How does that make them good guys?
My expectation is that after the mugiwara defeat whatever impediment is blocking the route to Raftel, there will be a king of the hill style rush towards One Piece with WG and Revolutionary factions fighting against each other and the remaining Yonkou.
Luffy and Co will either find the motivations of all parties to be inadequate or decide that they are impediments on their own route to becoming the Pirate King. He'll fight all comers and somehow save the world in the process.
Anyone disagree?
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Exactly like I pictured it, boiga. SHs aren't gonna team up with anybody. Shanks and his people will cover up for them though, even without the SHs knowing it.
Dragon is trying to move slowly and safe anyways, he even went away from the GL. I just assumed he'll jump on the chance Luffy is gonna give him. Bleh, kinda like how.. Wiper used Egg-Man's defeat to his advantage.
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Surely the WG will be portrayed as the bad guys. They've killed many and forced their way into international rule.
I see the Revolutionaries being the ones that will stop the WG from fighting the pirates in the end, and it'll be the Navy vs Revolutionaries. Then, the pirates, who are after One Piece, will finally battle it out: Luffy vs Blackbeard - Blackbeard vs Whitebeard - Luffy vs Shanks etc. That will be in the last two arcs, IMO.
I think Dragon knows how evil the WG are, and is simply trying to erase them so the world will not be ruled under evil. He strongly believes in dreams and how they should be allowed, and what better way is there to continue the legacy of dreams by erasing the threat to them. The WG are becoming so destructive that they're denying people opportunitiesā¦ such as Smoker almost denying Luffy a chance to go to the GL.
But the WG will live on, because Koby will one day be Admiral, but I think all the bad guys in the WG will be defeated by Dragon and his gang, while Luffy will become Pirate King.
I expect some Oda style twists as it happens.
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@$abZ:
Surely the WG will be portrayed as the bad guys. They've killed many and forced their way into international rule.
That's probably a topic for another thread, (and one we've had before) so I'll just say that Dragon and his terrorists, Gol D. Roger, Mihawk, etc. have done pretty much the same thing. Sure the WG has committed atrocities, but they claim to have moral justification for their actions. The exact nature of this justification hasn't been revealed yet, but it may trump the revolutionaries justification for waging a long and bloody war.
The majority of the islands that we have seen so far live in relative peace thanks to Marines keeping pirates at bay. They aren't tyrannical rulers imposing their will upon the populace. Actually the WG allows for nearly complete self-rule, as long as you don't attack another nation, support pirates, or investigate the Lost Century. Sure, there are plenty of bad apples like Morgan and the ratty captain in cahoots with arlong etc. But the great majority of Marines are fighting for what they consider a noble cause: to protect people and deliver justice.
I'm sure that the revolutionaries are also fighting for a noble cause (in their opinion), but whose cause the readers will consider morally superior can't be decided until we know what the Marines are hiding and what the revolutionaries are fighting for.
As it stands though, if I were an average odaverse dweller I would be much happier to see a WG army heading my way than a revolutionary army. The WG would reestablish law and order while the revolutionaries bring chaos and war. So, how are the WG definitely the bad guys?
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I don't think Dragon and the SW will team up or anything. It's more likely that Dragon will be a major villain that Luffy and the others must defeat.
I've got the feeling that Dragon and the revolutionaries are more then just guys, opposing the World Government. I think Dragon has a "take over the world" agenda or something.
Dragon has that villain feeling all over him. There's no way he'll end up helping Luffy with the WG. He might want Luffy to join him, but I seriously doubt Luffy will do that. Despite it being his father and all.
Well, that's just what I think.
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I don't think Dragon will necessarily be one of the good guys either. He's basically inspiring anarchy throughout the world. The Gorousei may have ugly things to get to where they are, but they still maintained a certain balance to the world for a long time. Just beating the crap outta them isn't the answer.
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I don't think Dragon and the SW will team up or anything. It's more likely that Dragon will be a major villain that Luffy and the others must defeat.
I've got the feeling that Dragon and the revolutionaries are more then just guys, opposing the World Government. I think Dragon has a "take over the world" agenda or something.
Dragon has that villain feeling all over him. There's no way he'll end up helping Luffy with the WG. He might want Luffy to join him, but I seriously doubt Luffy will do that. Despite it being his father and all.
Well, that's just what I think.
i feel very confused reading this. How is Dragon a bad guy when he saved Luffy already and it seems that Garp approves of him as well so i highly doubt that he can be all that bad. He probably doesn't like how the government works or something after years of seeing them do bad to people or something the government did bad to himā¦ maybe kill his wife or something?
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That's probably a topic for another thread, (and one we've had before) so I'll just say that Dragon and his terrorists, Gol D. Roger, Mihawk, etc. have done pretty much the same thing. Sure the WG has committed atrocities, but they claim to have moral justification for their actions. The exact nature of this justification hasn't been revealed yet, but it may trump the revolutionaries justification for waging a long and bloody war.
The majority of the islands that we have seen so far live in relative peace thanks to Marines keeping pirates at bay. They aren't tyrannical rulers imposing their will upon the populace. Actually the WG allows for nearly complete self-rule, as long as you don't attack another nation, support pirates, or investigate the Lost Century. Sure, there are plenty of bad apples like Morgan and the ratty captain in cahoots with arlong etc. But the great majority of Marines are fighting for what they consider a noble cause: to protect people and deliver justice.
I'm sure that the revolutionaries are also fighting for a noble cause (in their opinion), but whose cause the readers will consider morally superior can't be decided until we know what the Marines are hiding and what the revolutionaries are fighting for.
As it stands though, if I were an average odaverse dweller I would be much happier to see a WG army heading my way than a revolutionary army. The WG would reestablish law and order while the revolutionaries bring chaos and war. So, how are the WG definitely the bad guys?
Well, what happened at Ohara proves the WG have selfish motives. They're hiding something. Dragon probably has knowledge of this and is waging war AGAINST THE WGā¦
... it is not yet known if the Revolutionaries kill innocent people along the way to obtaining their goal, but the WG definately do.
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@$abZ:
Well, what happened at Ohara proves the WG have selfish motives. They're hiding something. Dragon probably has knowledge of this and is waging war AGAINST THE WGā¦
... it is not yet known if the Revolutionaries kill innocent people along the way to obtaining their goal, but the WG definately do.
Actually, from some angles the massacre of Ohara, while certainly regrettable, can be justified in that it saved the lives of entire nations in the long run. The research going on at Ohara had the potential for giving every single pirate on the grand line their own Pluton or Poseidon. If the knowledge of how to interpret the ancient writing had become prolific, Crocodile would have gotten his hands on the plans for Pluton. If those plans were made public, Arlong and Krieg, Kuro and others all may have gotten their hands on one. Islands with populations in the millions could be wiped out in minutes with the WG helpless to stop the carnage.
The equivalent would be if a group of peaceful scientists in some peaceful african country developed the technology to allow for a nuclear weapon without the need for hard to get refined uranium/plutonium. Couldn't you understand the powers that be wiping out that knowledge before someone who would use it in a populated area got their hands on it?
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does the scientists have to be african? couldnt they just be north american, european, australian, asian or south american as well?
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Sorry gorlom, I just picked a random continent with lots of third world countries to help the analogy (ohara was no world power after all.)
My point is just that the WG shouldn't be considered evil fascist genocidal tyrants just for what happened in Ohara.
Their priorities and and the priorities of the revolutionaries are still mysterious. The players are set, but we don't yet know who's wearing the white hat or who is wearing the black one.
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I think boiga was trying to place the hypothetical scientists in a geographic area which has seen more than its share of bloody revolution and genocide-in brief, the kind of place where the "bad guys" would have few or no qualms about using such a weapon.
EDIT: Pay no heed to what I just said, boiga clarified it himself.
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suspected as much but i wanted it absolutely crystal ^^
What theā¦? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm
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I think we'd better see just what happens when Dragon convinces a country to overthrow their government before we make judgment calls on his methods. If he was only making countries nicer, he wouldn't be the most dangerous criminal in the world. And overthrowing a government isn't as easy as just kicking the evil politicians out. For we all know, this guy could be quite the anarchist.
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The World Government (well at least it's leadership) is evil. However I will say that having WG control is MUCH better than Pirate dominated anarchy.
Them not wanting the Ancient Weapons to come back because they would probably ruin things is understandable. However I think Ohara might have been a bit excessive.
On the other hand from what we can see pretty much all of the members of the WG's leadership are either completely amoral (Sengoku,CP9) or complete bastards (Spandam,Akainu).
And Kefky and Boiga have a few points. Yeah the WG probably have caused their fair share of havoc but then again how do we know Shanks, Whitestache, Mihawk, Dragon and various others haven't?
Really One Piece has a different perception of Good and Evil then we do. Lucky Roux killed a man in cold blood and we wouldn't call him evil would we?
Finally as evil as the WG is, it is arguably a necessary evil in the OP world. If it were to be destroyed then there would probably be nothing but turmoil and anarchy.
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You are confuseing the WG with the Marines sadrhg. the WG is the 5 elders and a council of the ruleing parties from all the nations that encompass the WG as far as i understood it.
the people you listed are just marine officers of different rank. -
When talking about Pluton and allmight weapons. Wasnt there a war before WG. Where there were two fighting sides and the so called WG was the bad guys who defeted the good guys, and then erased all knowledge about these weapons they used cause they knew that if someone where to find and use them against them self they would looseā¦
Just something i remember reading. -
there was the ancient civilisation presumably batteling what then later came to be the WG. this was narrated by dr clover in Robins background story.
nothing was told about who was the bad guys or who was and if someone was useing the ancient weapons.Also i was under the impression that Lucci, Kaku, Calipha and Blueno had the mission to retrive the plans for pluton rather then to destroy the plansā¦ which means that they arent bothered by the plans for the weapons beeing revived... as long as its in the hands of the Marine.
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Also i was under the impression that Lucci, Kaku, Calipha and Blueno had the mission to retrive the plans for pluton rather then to destroy the plansā¦ which means that they arent bothered by the plans for the weapons beeing revived... as long as its in the hands of the Marine.
Exactly, why do you think Spandam was so pissed when Franky burned the plans?
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Yea, that actually something that bothered me about the CP9. They followed Spandam's orders way too blindly. It would've been cool if they actually planned to denounce him to the marine higher ups actually they got the plans back. But I guess that might've made them a bit too likeable.
Still, doesn't allowing Spandam to use one the weapons for evil go completely against the reason why they're there in the first place?
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the reason i brought it up sanctum is that i saw a few posts that i interperated as they thought the marines destroyed the knowledge about the weapons and do everything to keep the knowledge from ever surfaceingā¦
it seems that its not really the weapons they dont want people to find on the phoneglyphs as they could just have run over the Ohara scientists and mad them work for the WG. there is probably something more important on the glyphs that they dont want anyone to find out.
kefky: im suspecting theres a when missing in between "ups" and "actually"?
Still, doesn't allowing Spandam to use one the weapons for evil go completely against the reason why they're there in the first place?
Are you assumeing that the Marines were the ones that originally developed the weapons? Spandam might have acted on orders from higher as wellā¦ there was this other guy that keept peskering Iceburg for the plans so i think the marines knew about CP9s operations on W7.
So who is to say that its Spandam that would have used the weapon? and for what reason WAS the weapons there in the first place?What theā¦? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm
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I was talking about the CP9. Wasn't it their mission to track down the weapons? It's what they had been doing for the last 5 years.
And Spandam definitely wanted it for personal useā¦ He kept going on about how powerful it'd make him. I think he pretty much had the same goal as Croc, use it to hold the world for ransom.
You're right about that other guy who was talking to Iceburg, though... Maybe he was an honest marine.
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you dont think spandam was talking about promotions and personal influence within the marines?
What theā¦? Holy smurf am I slow! Until this statement of yours I never even realized that an octopus is actually serving octopusballs. Talk about not seeing the forest because of too many trees. facepalm
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Heh, good point.
I guess Tom-san wasn't gonna let anyone have the plansā¦ Not even the marines or the government, no matter what the reason.
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You're forgetting about Blackbeard! I could actually see Blackbeard becoming the Pirate King, and after getting rid of every power, just leaving the old geezers alone, Blackbeard may go for the One Piece.
I dunno, I always tought One Piece was going to be something more important than a Weapon or a treasure. :P
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@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
You're forgetting about Blackbeard! I could actually see Blackbeard becoming the Pirate King, and after getting rid of every power, just leaving the old geezers alone, Blackbeard may go for the One Piece.
Sounds good to me. Anything involving the Blackbeard crew is always a plus.
@Kaimei-Karasuhebi:
I dunno, I always tought One Piece was going to be something more important than a Weapon or a treasure. :P
I have no idea what it's gonna be, but it's gotta be something big enough to change the entire structure of the world and the end the current era.
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I do wonder if the bounties the WG put on pirates are for the threat level against the WG or the general world populace of One Piece?
Case in point, Robin as an 8 year old girl wasn't honestly a world threaat and consequently had a massive bounty put on her for something she did not cause but was witness to.
Anyway, it's good to not know Dragon's true intention and charcter as of yet. I do get the feeling sometimes that Oda leaves some great charcters on the sidelines sometimes but at elast he creates the feeling that the worlsd keeps on ticking outside of Luffy and his crew's activities.
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Sorry gorlom, I just picked a random continent with lots of third world countries to help the analogy (ohara was no world power after all.)
My point is just that the WG shouldn't be considered evil fascist genocidal tyrants just for what happened in Ohara.
Their priorities and and the priorities of the revolutionaries are still mysterious. The players are set, but we don't yet know who's wearing the white hat or who is wearing the black one.
..But that doesn't matter. They treated bad to Luffy, so they're bad guys. Everyone else who didn't get involved are currently neutral, but to free the image of the bad WG Oda has been working on for so much time, that can't be done in speculation or theories, something in the manga saying "The WG are helpful," but untill then, I [and many more I presume] will consider them ultimate evil.
On another note, there's another view on them. They are definitely not the main force that control the world right now [it was stated they are a nice amount of time]. They're completely even with another side, which is Pirates. Only reason they seem like they control it is because they are not fighting between themselves, and they use it by placing bounties.
But, the revolutionaries or not on either side. Now, obviously I'll get them with the pirates. Because they can team up with them or fight them, but the WG will always get their wrath. You can look at Dragon and say, "he's gonna do this and this but not this, and he doesn't want to become the PK."Argh.. I dunno if anyone understood it o-o
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ok here is what I think but it's just one big speculation of course:
there are three great powers that keep the balance of the OP world - WG, Shichibukai and Younkou
When the WG was founded it was the only power in the world
in some time pirates started to wander around and some of them becoming stronger and stronger
in order to keep the order the WG decide to enrol some pirates thus the Shichibukai come upthe strongest pirates become Younkou and don't want to have much to do with the WG - just enjoy themselves
now the WG is trying to find the weapons either to destroy them or to use them of course.. but I think they have one already and are ready to use it if the Younkou attack them but are also afraid whether an enemy of theirs might find another weapon
and the shichibukai are the balancing factor and is concerned with some arising pirates.. only if they are in the mood of course ;)so the WG doesn't want to get rid of the pirates because they like this balance of the powers - they seem like having the most control over the world
but here come Dragon and his revolutionaries - they don't like the pirates for one reason or another and want to destroy the WG that tolerates the pirates and make a new WG for a new world without pirates
so in this way of thinking Dragon is not a good thing for the OP world as we know it :ninja: -
@rai, I really have to disagree.
In life as well as fiction, it is always a mistake to consider the enemy of the hero to be "ultimate evil" as you say. Similarly the enemy of your enemy is most certainly not necessarily your friend. Real world complications (which good fiction takes into account) show that those fighting on both sides of war almost universally consider themselves the "good guys."
All massacres throughout history have been justified by those who committed them as being necessary for the greater good. Conversely, even the warriors for the most noble of causes have committed massacres. It's the nature of war. To automatically say that the other side is "ultimate evil" just condones and encourages the side you support to commit similar atrocities because "evil" doesn't deserve mercy.
Admittedly, luffy isn't going to massacre anyone any time soon (zoro maybe thoughā¦) but can you say the same for Dragon or the Pirates? There are other sides to this story that we do not know. So how can we say who is right?
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In a full narrative, there is always a good guy and a bad guy. In the Enes Lobby Arc, the WG were clearly the bad guys, whilst the SHs were the good guys. What are the connotations of bad guy?
Yes they're doing it for world peace - or another selfish goal, since they're hiding past events and seem interested in the Ancient Weapons, but the way they're doing it is considered evil.
They kill their own men, and hundreds of innocents. It's like saying Blackbeard isn't a bad guy because he killed another to obtain a DF to help accomplish his dream. I believe the WG just want power, and all other obstacles out of their way. They seem to like bullying people to get their way too e.g. Spandam to Robin. We've seen many disagree with the WG when they carry out evil deeds; even their own men e.g. Aokiji.
And back to Ohara: To kill an entire, innocent nation just because they knew too much about the void century is almost the ultimate act of evil. The WG are denying their citizens the knowledge of what happened those many years ago - because it may lead people away from the WG? It's likely.
The WG consider themselves good guys, but Oda's audience have the ultimate outlook on the events, and it is clear that Oda is labelling the WG so far as the bad guys.
And about Dragon: It's difficult to tell if he's bad or not. But as far as we've seen in Luffy's family, it's likely he will be good. I don't think Garp has the evil ambitions of some of his fellow marines, and Ace is definately gold hearted like Luffy.
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Marine =/= World Goverment. just want to point that out.
$abZ: you cant judge an entire organization on spandam Lucci and the bustercall
Smoker acted like the good guy in loguetown and alabasta. (in loguetown he was just doing his jobb trying to apprehend a criminal he didnt do anything evil)
Aokiji was the good guy on longlongringisland helping that old man. (love the comment Luffy makesā¦
-"dont listen to him he is the marine!"
-"... why?"
-"oh yeah! thats right, the marines are usually the good guys..."Many of the bad guys are probably just following orders and have been in the organization long enough to feel that you cant disobey orders it is all for the greater good in the end. I agree that killing your alies is heartless but judgeing the whole organization on what some individuals did in an extreme situation is kinda hastey (edited).
basides people are forgetting about that swordsman on the train that cared for his men to the degree that he ripped up all his clothes to bandage their wounds.
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@abz: your probably right. However, I would leave open the possibility for new factors to turn those good-guy bad-guy labels on their heads.
Oda might throw us a curveball and have Dragon be the greatest enemy and have luffy and his crew fight alongside Aokiji, smoker, coby, and Garp in order to save the world from a megalomaniac with dreams of obtaining the weaponry of the great civilization from before the lost century.
Alternately, the WG and the revolutionaries might fight together against an even greater external force led by Blackbeard and renegade members of both factions.
There are a lot of ways for this to play out. It's too early to assume that the WG will be the most despicable faction when all is said and done.
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Gorlom: How is it lame?
And, it's funny that you picked Smoker and Aokiji, since they're the ones rebelling against the WG a little now e.g. Smoker was pissed at the WG for covering up events about Crocodile and Aokiji letting Nico Robin live for Saulo.
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lame is the wrong word.. not what i was looking for but i couldnt end that sentence properlyā¦.
hmm hasty would probably do.
... What is the WG? can we get that cleared up? i see all theese people saying World Goverment all the time when i think they mean Marine...
isnt the WG the five elders and a council of representatives from each country flying the WG flag? -
The marines are basically a world police force. They're the only protection normal people in OP world have, so it's fairly silly to just say they're all evil. Oda showed that right off the bat with the relationship between Luffy and Coby. And if you ask me, he's been foreshadowing a major team-up between marines and pirates for a while now. I'll bet we'll see it before the end of the series.
As for the world government, just like Dragon, we know too little about them to make any kind of judgment. They weren't the bad guys of EL. Spandam was. The straw hats waged war on the WG to show their conviction. They wanted to show Robin how much they cared. They'll even take on the whole world for one their friends. Oda used it as a handy excuse to put the straw hats on the same level as Shanks and the Shichibukai. It actually didn't have much to do with the government, when you think about it.
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Last I heard, the Navy and all the CPs are given orders by the WG.
So everything they do is what the WG want done. That's why Sogeking was asked to strike the flag.
And about Luffy and Coby, that's different. You saw how suprised Coby was of Morgan. You think Coby would kill innocents for justice? I don't.
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I'm saying that Oda wanted to show that marines and pirates are just two points of views. It's not a "pirates are good people, marines are bad people". There's plenty of good and bad people in both sides.
And the marines follow government orders as much as the army and the police follow government's orders in our world, I imagine. But their main purpose is to protect. The OP world is crazy. Try to imagine all the evil sh*t that's going on all the and we don't see it. The marines protect people from that. Not every place has its own army like Alabasta.
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Well not all Navy men are bad because Smoker and Tashigi actually care about the people.
